Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Upgrades It's funny.  Laugh. Networking Hardware

Denon's $499 Ethernet Cable 719

Guysmiley777 writes with what looks like a very late (or very, very early) April Fool's joke: "Denon's $499 Ethernet cable 'brings out all the nuances in digital audio reproduction.' Sure, that seems plausible. After all, nuances in digital signals are so subtle. Oh, and 'signal directional markings are provided for optimum signal transfer.'" Considering that $499 will get you a competent laptop these days, I wonder how big the market is for such a thing — then I look at Stereophile magazine's annual list of recommended components. The "view more images" link shows that they take cable porn seriously at Denon.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Denon's $499 Ethernet Cable

Comments Filter:
  • Yay for Amazon.com! (Score:3, Informative)

    by Briareos ( 21163 ) * on Saturday June 14, 2008 @08:31PM (#23795879)
    Even Amazon.com sells them [amazon.com] - that means it can only be good, right?

    Right?

    *nudge nudge wink wink*

    np: Anthony Rother - Liquid System (My Name Is Beuys Von Telekraft)
  • Re:Audiophools (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 14, 2008 @08:41PM (#23795947)
    i agree to a certain extent, but there's a point at which it stops being a con and starts being just a bad joke

    i'm sorry, but anyone who thinks this cable is worth five hundred bux doesn't deserve to keep their money
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 14, 2008 @08:41PM (#23795951)
    Not trying to justify this, but this not for ethernet, but a proprietary digital audio transmission from Denon sources to Denon receviers.

    http://www.audioholics.com/news/press-releases/denon-digital-link-receives-approval-for-sacd-transmission/ [audioholics.com]
  • Re:Some day... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 14, 2008 @08:42PM (#23795965)
    Well here's your answer:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/14/humanbehaviour

    "How being swindled can make you feel better" by the Guardian's "Bad Science" columnist, Ben Goldacre.
  • by KarMann ( 121054 ) <karmannjro@NoSpam.yahoo.com> on Saturday June 14, 2008 @08:56PM (#23796059) Homepage
    While we're on the subject of their "attention to detail" like "empoying" that others have pointed out, I also see that if you click their "View new product warranty" link, you'll find that... it's not even listed in the products that have any warranty whatsoever! I had been thinking, "damn, if that's a $500 cable, it better either be a couple of football fields long, or have a several century warranty," but no, a crappy 1.5m and no warranty.
  • Re:datasheet (Score:5, Informative)

    by HaeMaker ( 221642 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @08:57PM (#23796067) Homepage
    Google: Shielded Twisted Pair (STP). Quite common. Probably can get a 1.5m STP cable for about $3.
  • Re:Some day... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Achoi77 ( 669484 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @09:00PM (#23796101)

    This was done with wine, often with humbling results.

  • Reviews (Score:3, Informative)

    by flanktwo ( 1041494 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @09:11PM (#23796197)
    Check out the Amazon reviews [amazon.com]!
  • Re:datasheet (Score:5, Informative)

    by mprindle ( 198799 ) * on Saturday June 14, 2008 @09:16PM (#23796243)

    Looking at the datasheet for that cable on their website, it seems like the only possibly unique thing they've done is to add a thin metal shield around the cable near the tip - from where it stops being UTP (with all the noise-protection that UTP tends to have) to where the plastic connector-to-NIC starts.

    The cable insulation and the rest looks mostly standard - I mean, it's cloth and heatshrink (probably PVC) instead of vinyl, but I can't imagine that the change would make such a huge difference, even in terms of so-called 'vibration protection'. Are electrical signals really that sensitive to normal sounds?

    So a huge markup for a very small piece of tin foil and some cloth. Whee!
    I use shielded connectors at work every day. I work in the industrial sector so we must use shielded to keep external noise from interfering with the network. I wish I could charge my customers that much for shielded cables...
  • Zip cord.... (Score:3, Informative)

    by 3seas ( 184403 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @09:28PM (#23796325) Homepage Journal
    the copper wire lamp cord that you can split with your hands once you get it started, is as capable a cable as any high cost audio speaker cable.

  • Re:Audiophools (Score:3, Informative)

    by RockModeNick ( 617483 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @09:31PM (#23796337)
    Personally, I like good audio equipment, but hate spending much money on stuff that won't make any difference in my cluttered space, or any difference at all. I found the bang for your buck solution was mid-late 70's solid states, either just the amp units that have no preamp, or receivers with jumpers between the main in and preamp outputs, the receivers being my favorite because the lower quality of their preamp/tuner sections keeps their cost low. You combine these with any decent sound card with a good signal to noise ratio. I just pop out the preamp unit/main in jumpers, run the preamp input into the aux input on my sound card(just in case I want to tune in some AM or FM radio, I keep both it and all the other inputs on the card muted 99% of the time, so, you know, it actually HAS the low noise it's supposed to) and run the main output of my sound card to the main in on the receiver. You can generally turn the volume on the computer to 100% without ANY audible noise in the speakers, even with your ears up to the cones. I've found this type of setup gets louder with less distortion than most modern setups costing over 10 times as much.
  • Re:Audiophiles (Score:4, Informative)

    by Antibozo ( 410516 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @09:36PM (#23796381) Homepage
    No, no, no. It goes to 11.
  • Re:Some day... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Joska ( 78000 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @09:38PM (#23796393)
    This type of test has been conducted a great many times over the years. Notable is the work of Dr. Floyd Toole when he was head of the acoustics lab at the Department Of Physics at Canada's National Research Council in Ottawa. He was able to demonstrate that people of all sorts would recognize and prefer the sound reproduction that was most accurate in terms of having the lowest distortion, flattest frequency response and best loudspeaker dispersion as long as they did not know what equipment they were listening to. When they did know, their beliefs and preconceptions essentially determined their perceptions.
  • by timothy ( 36799 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @09:43PM (#23796433) Journal
    I thought so at first, too, but in depressing fact, that's the real price from Denon.

    And it looks like you save 100 pennies if you order from Denon rather than Amazon:

    http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-Cable/dp/B000I1X6PM [amazon.com]

    The reviews are hilarious :)

    timothy
  • Re:Some day... (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 14, 2008 @10:08PM (#23796583)
    I'm an audiophile. I love high-end stuff and I've messed with all kinds of audio equipment looking for the best bang-for-the-buck. Believe me, some of this top-dollar stuff is nearly holographic to listen to.

    That said- There's a big divide in the audio community over double-blind testing. There's a vocal group who says that a blind A/B test is completely invalid. Then, these idiots turn around and make claims like, "When I stuck a piece of the magical masking tape to the speaker cabinet, the sound just opened up and gave me an instant orgasm that made me convulse on the floor for ten minutes." Okay, it's not quite that bad but if the difference is huge, why won't a double-blind test work? Hell, I can tell the difference between a cat turd and French silk pie, even blindfolded!

    The problem is that some audiophiles need to spend money to feel like they're not being complacent about their baby... er.. system. They want that little extra push over the edge (to 11) so bad that they will themselves into hearing it. Some tweaks really are useful. If you optimize everything then the net improvement may be noticeable even if the individual tweaks aren't, but knowing what the weak links are is key. Six feet of gold power cord isn't going to do anything about the hundreds of feet of ordinary house wiring your power travels through. In fact, it is the job of your component's power supply to shield you from hearing what's going on in the AC world anyway. Even if the cable makes a slight difference, its effect should be attenuated into nothingness.

    Oh well, we aren't all morons, and Denon probably figured they needed to get a $500 network cable to market before everyone else did.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 14, 2008 @11:20PM (#23797067)
    Judging from the drawing in the "manual":

    http://www.usa.denon.com/AK-DL1Lit.pdf

    there are at least three major shortcomings with this cable:

    1) there is no strain relief that will prevent the force from pulling on the cable from stressing individual wires. These days, even the cheapest patch cables are injection molded, which virtually insures that none of wires are torn out of the crimp connection.

    2) The wire mesh shielding of the cable is not connected to the metal shield surrounding the plug. This will increase the bit-error rate in noisy environments.

    3) the little plastic lever that needs to be pressed to release the plug from the socket is not prevented from tearing off when the cable is disentagled by a little hood that covers its tip.

    5 foot cables of decent quality that do not have the three flaws described above are less than $1 wholesale.

    If Denon "engineers" (or more probably their guy that sources stuff on the cheap from chinese manufacturers promising to deliver overnight in quantities of 50) deliver such a shoddy quality on the cable, what kind of corners did they cut in the electronic design of their products?

  • by zalas ( 682627 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @11:30PM (#23797147) Homepage
    These pictures are the closest I could think of off the top of my head and it comes in your choice of black [merumeru.mobi] or white [merumeru.mobi]. Enjoy... <_<;
  • by NevermindPhreak ( 568683 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @11:36PM (#23797181)
    I work with coax all day, and I know that problems in the cable can cause micro-reflections and other such things, where the signal actually bounces back towards the source and causes interference. So you could technically create a cable that blocks any signal sent back along the same wire. I don't think it's currently possible, though, because that usually involves filters that are a lot bigger than the cable itself. I don't even know how you'd do that on ethernet, since you have bi-directional communication.

    You pay a gazillion dollars for high-end HDMI cables because of the flaws of HDMI itself: unshielded twisted-pair over possibly long distances with no error control. Maybe in the audio world, cat-5 doesn't use error correction. Regardless, i thought optical connections were the standard for high-end audio connections.
  • Re:Some day... (Score:4, Informative)

    by ucblockhead ( 63650 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @11:51PM (#23797275) Homepage Journal
    You don't need a blind test. Ethernet is digital. You cannot get better than "0 dropped packets" no matter how good the cable is, and given modern error correction techniques, even with some dropped packets, the actual bits that get delivered and turned into sound will be identical.
  • by networkBoy ( 774728 ) on Sunday June 15, 2008 @12:40AM (#23797565) Journal
    Silver is better than gold all the way around with only one exception: it oxidizes.
    If you want the *best* signal quality possible, it's silver plated copper stranded wire (or Coax if that's the app) with silver connectors both on the cable and console. The connectors need to mate very tightly and ideally have a small gasket to seal them.

    That's what I use on my GHz frequency equipment. I'd use it on my video editing gear as well, but some conspiracy has landed me with only gold plate beryllium copper contacts as the best I can find...

    for average joe consumer though, they buy overpriced cables with high-end looking terminations badly assembled ending up with this [networkboy.net] as the result.
    -nB
  • by zippthorne ( 748122 ) on Sunday June 15, 2008 @01:55AM (#23797925) Journal
    Ironicaly, for actual ductwork, what you really want is "high-temp" tape, which is pretty much aluminum foil with an adhesive backing.
  • by billcopc ( 196330 ) <vrillco@yahoo.com> on Sunday June 15, 2008 @02:43AM (#23798143) Homepage

    It's also pretty difficult to pull any sort of BS in the professional sector
    Really ? They're just as gullible as the next guy, for the most part. Many musicians hold an almost religious adherence to brands and product lines. They've been brainwashed by the "Pro costs 7x more" attitude that has hatched all these scam shops. Don't ask a sound engineer to tell you why he prefers Brand-X over Brand-Z, there are only two answers to that question: either he'll tell you that's all he's ever used and all he ever will, or he read a favorable review in "Sound on Sound Magazine", which is like saying he found human life on earth.

    The truth is: very few people have the time, money and know-how to objectively compare products and sniff out the best ones. Adoration within the industry is mostly focused on money spent, i.e. the dude with a 25'000$ amp stack will get more oohs and aahs than the other guy with only a 9'000$ amp stack.

    That's how you wind up with mixing engineers chopping up their perfectly fine $500 Sennheiser cans, to solder a $1500 headphone cable right onto the speaker leads. They should be shot.
  • by Khakionion ( 544166 ) on Sunday June 15, 2008 @03:03AM (#23798247)
    http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/11/25/ [penny-arcade.com] Goddamn Martians!
  • Not Ethernet (Score:3, Informative)

    by pete-classic ( 75983 ) <hutnick@gmail.com> on Sunday June 15, 2008 @03:43AM (#23798425) Homepage Journal
    This cable is not intended to carry Ethernet. It's made for Denon's proprietary low-voltage differential LPCM interconnect. More like S/PDIF than Ethernet. Not everything with an RJ-45 is Ethernet.

    Having said that, I can't imagine this is any better than any other cable that meets their spec for this interconnect.

    -Peter
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 15, 2008 @05:26AM (#23798765)
    As an electrical engineer - these monster speaker cables get my dander up. Seriously - Who believes that the way you weave your copper strands makes an audible difference?!?!?!

    Now - consider this..... How in the hell does a UTP cable (apparently now with additional ungrounded shielding!) can make ANY difference to a digital signal? IT'S FREAKING DIGITAL you COCK!

    The error correction systems would weed out any badness - that is what you paid for!

    Seriously - This would be the con of the century...

    Use a (good quality) CAT-6 cable...
  • Re:empoying? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Pr0Hak ( 2504 ) on Sunday June 15, 2008 @07:52AM (#23799245)
    i think you mean monoprice.com . I've also had good luck with cablesforless.com
  • Comment removed (Score:2, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday June 15, 2008 @01:52PM (#23801559)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Re:empoying? (Score:5, Informative)

    by sjames ( 1099 ) on Sunday June 15, 2008 @07:16PM (#23804313) Homepage Journal

    Audiophiles are amazing. They're the only group I can think of that make Scientology, ID true believers AND flat earthers look like rationalists.

    Check out the the ultimate [machinadynamica.com] in audioweenie gear. Magic rocks you tape to your cables, magic clocks, and "audio tuneups" transmitted through your phone!

    I'll bet if I tape those magic rocks to the super ethernet cable and put that clock on top of my server, I can probably get a 20 jillion teraquad internet connection over the POTS line.

  • by dwywit ( 1109409 ) on Sunday June 15, 2008 @07:46PM (#23804515)
    "Harry Potter" = moderately well-constructed fantasy, but there are some who take it seriously.
  • by ScottBob ( 244972 ) on Monday June 16, 2008 @01:43AM (#23806583)
    Somebody actually did a double blind study of Monster Cable versus coat hanger wire. [audioholics.com]

We are each entitled to our own opinion, but no one is entitled to his own facts. -- Patrick Moynihan

Working...