Moving Between Countries? 450
An anonymous reader writes "In six months' time, I am packing up and moving from Australia (Melbourne) to Canada (Vancouver). I'm a qualified network engineer. What I want to know is, what sort of quirks and tricks I am going to have to get used to in the Canadian job market? I'm used to Australian recruiters, and all the hoops you have to jump through, but Canada may have different hoops. I've tried contacting recruiters directly for information but they don't really give out much, as I am not actually in the country yet and therefore not worth their time. Is anyone willing to share their experiences on making the big move from country to country?"
Just do it (Score:5, Insightful)
In terms of your work, the situation is mostly the same, be it Canada, UK, Australia, in that you are expected to hold a professional attitude, and be good with your work. You will find Australians have strong work ethic reputations abroad, so you need to back that up.
Short of that, you merely need to be resourceful, and you don't necessarily need to go through recruiters. Get your resume up to speed, make sure it is within 2 pages so as not to waste others time, and advertise your skills and project work so as to give potential employment a good honest run down on your skillset.
Print it out 20-50 times, and go walk through the front door in professional attire and give it to reception, possibly ask to see if they are seeking help.
With a skills shortage of competent engineers, you will gain employment fast, and gain the margin a recruiter normally takes.
Every top 500 needs engineers, and google for the integration/IT comms companies in your city of settlement.
If you work with specialist sectors like network/comms, speak to the local distributors to find out what integrators work with those products.
Hope this helps.
MantiX
IT CEO.
I'm in Australia (Adelaide) Looking to move count (Score:5, Insightful)
Canada and New Zealand are the two places I have been seriously considering, and it looks like Auckland, New Zealand has won me over. (I have a really close friend there for one, and NZ is a beautiful country.)
I'm a Software Engineer and Systems Administrator in my current role. Anyway, guess I should read what people post as that stuff my apply to me too
I bet Americans are wondering why on earth we would want to leave Australia.....
always, Always, ALWAYS, talk to a lawyer... (Score:3, Insightful)
Moving to another country, you need to familiarize yourself with the important laws and assumptions that are being made there. So, go direct to the source: find a reputable lawyer to talk to, and swallow the few $100 it will cost for several hours of his time. And, that's a LAWYER IN THE COUNTRY YOU ARE MOVING TO.
There are a variety of different topics you will want to discuss, so you might need to talk to more than one lawyer. BUT DO IT. You are no longer a visitor, so you need to understand the ins and outs of the local legal system.
Here's some topics that are important:
These are but the most important I can cite off the top of my head. It's more than worth the cost of a short lawyer consultation, and you might even be able to get a good conversation out of one on the cheap (like, offer to pay for a good dinner and drinks out, since there's not going to be any paperwork or case, it's just a consultation).
Knowing the lay of the land is by far the most important thing to find out. Getting the inside scoop from an expert is the fastest, best way to do it.
-Erik
Re:I work in Canada (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:always, Always, ALWAYS, talk to a lawyer... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:always, Always, ALWAYS, talk to a lawyer... (Score:3, Insightful)
If the country you're moving to has an embassy (most of the bigger ones whose names you already know have one) then you should be able to find it.
They are cheaper than a lawyer and they'll probably give you more user friendly advice. Lawyers tend to use a lot of costly words.
Re:I work in Canada (Score:5, Insightful)
Recruiting the wrong person for a job is very, very costly, you'll end up paying a few months of salary before noticing the mistake, and then you have to re-do the entire hiring process again, which also costs money.
On that scale, five bucks for a phonecall is totally worth the money.
Re:I'm in Australia (Adelaide) Looking to move cou (Score:5, Insightful)
And you want to move to *America* to avoid that???
Re:Recruiters in Australia (Score:3, Insightful)
And what exactly do you expect me to tell you if I've been doing Java on Windows (deployed usually on Solaris) for the last ten years? Some of us just slid in such positions, and try to get out. I have extensive Linux and OpenBSD skills because that's what I do at home, but I cannot provide a single professional reference to that.
You'd essentially get my CV and think "another one of those useless guys"... Have you ever considered that at least some of those people try to get out of the Microsoft lock-in and do have some skills but simply didn't ever get a chance proving it?
I'm just saying because I'm one of those guys with what you consider a crap CV and I try to make it up in my cover letter. So far, nobody ever replied. Sure, recruiters call me, but there it stops.
The tip that most people give is that you should contribute to an open source project and get your name out. Fair enough.... That's about the only thing I can do about it and I doubt I'd get taken seriously by you even if I did.
Re:I'm in Australia (Adelaide) Looking to move cou (Score:2, Insightful)
Canada, bro. Canada is *not* the USA. We don't assume people are shady because they don't fly flags and tie yellow ribbons around everything in sight here.
Re:The real problem. (Score:3, Insightful)
As far as your Monopoly money analogy goes, well, guess who has the bigger counterfeiting problem? Hint: it's not Canada.
From someone who has done it... (Score:3, Insightful)
It depends on the job market at the time as to how you'll fare, Vancouver is quite a small town as far as IT goes, so be prepared not to work for some time
Check out the local classifieds [canada.com] nearer the time, although there isn't usually much in there, but there might be. Also, check out Usenet - bc.jobs - to get a feel for what's active, you should probably be doing that now to get a feel for what is happening.
Be prepared to move around quite a bit - if you can work freelance, start up your own company which is quite easy to do and I would say is by far the best way to network and get known. It also means that you don't pass up on contract work. A relative doing the same as you worked for 3 companies in the first couple of years (as a "permie") so employment can be volatile - plan on it being this way. You can be "let go" easily in the first 6 months or so, so don't treat everything as a job for life. I did some work in Calgary for a while - this is a good way to see other cities but watch out for having to pay for accommodation twice. It helps to have relatives over here.
G'luck sport! See you around town
Re:Job references in the UK (Score:3, Insightful)
Vancouver (Score:3, Insightful)
A couple of people have commented about the importance of sorting out the work visa situation. I'll second that, with emphasis on getting it completed before you enter the country. Most nations, including Canada, you can't apply from within the country. Of course, this creates a Catch 22 in which the strongest justification for issuing the visa comes from having a prospective employer write a letter of offer. And that rarely happens without an interview, or two, or sometimes three, in person. So yeah, it may be necessary to come here for a couple of months ahead of time to do interviews.
I've been trying out recruiters lately. I can recommend a couple, if you want to contact me privately. I can also list several that have, for me at least, proved to be a complete waste of time. Odds are, you can do far better looking on your own. In Vancouver, check out the BC Techlology website: http://www.bctechnology.com/frameset_emp.html [bctechnology.com]
The other comment I'd like to make is that, at least acccording to my experience, there is not much that can be generalized about how employers interview, what they look for, or what you can expect to find after accepting a given position. I think we're generally honest people here in Canada, but it's a young industry in a young culture, and so every organization makes up its own rules and expectations. The interview process is almost entirely directed at finding out about you. Except for a few bare facts, you won't learn much about the organization or the people you'll be working with. What you do learn is designed to make the organization look good, rather than to disclose what sort of challenges and difficulties you can expect from the position. And given the high degree of variability that I mentioned, you really won't know what you've gotten yourself into until the first day on the job. I'm sure this is true the world over, but it has a particular flavor on the west coast of Canada. On one hand, we're bound by Canadian politeness and a mild social reserve that can be hard to break through. On the other hand, we aspire to some form of American entrepreneurialism and the frankness that goes with it. I'm delighted by our West coast liberalism and our tolerance for different cultures, but if I may say so, we're not yet as fully evolved as we think we are. You have an advantage as an Aussie, I think, in that you have lived within a similar cultural paradox. Ours ends up perhaps a bit less tolerant of people being outspoken.