Bletchley Park Facing Financial Ruin 234
biscuitfever11 writes "Bletchley Park, the home of Station X, Britain's secret code-breaking base during World War II, is barely scraping by financially, as shown in these images compiled by ZDNet this week. The site has undergone major redevelopment as an act of remembrance for the Allied efforts to break the German Enigma code, but now its future is clouded — among others, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation turned them down for financial assistance (since it doesn't have to do with the Internet). Its director estimates that Bletchley Park's funds will be exhausted in three years. Hungry land developers are circling. This is an insightful look at what's happened to Bletchley Park these days and the pain it's going through."
Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Insightful)
I know this is /., and there is many a Bill-basher here who would probably take ANY opportunity to blast him, but COME ON.
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Insightful)
every single inch of soil has some history to it.
If you really think saving this place is worth time and effort, please donate some of your money.
My guess is not many people feel like you do.
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That's really all there is to it. It's not even just not worth it to the British government, but obviously not to the British people, either.
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Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Insightful)
That written, I view the demise of Bletchley Park the same way I look at copyrights: Doing something great a long time ago shouldn't guarantee you a lifetime of financial benefits. Even if you saved the world.
Great you broke codes but a long time has passed since then. Figure out how to pay your own way.
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Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Insightful)
Your comparing efforts to save an important part of our history to copyrights?
Am I the only one that sees value in preserving important parts of our history for future generations?
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Insightful)
When you talk about preserving a site like this it's not the same way you would talk about preserving an area of Greek or Roman ruins. It's not like they are going to excavate it at a later date and discover unknown relics.
Without the knowledge of what has happened there, the site is meaningless. And if you have the documentation the site becomes more about the emotional and symbolic attachment than historical value.
And eventually it gets down to the fact that if we faithfully preserved every place that anything interesting had ever happened at it wouldn't be long before our entire society would be static.
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Insightful)
I would agree with that, but you have to weigh the "anything interesting" part against the bigger picture. In this case, the "anything interesting" was an Allied effort that saved thousands of lives and probably shortened the war by a year. I tend to think that's worth preserving and that the value to society is greater then allowing a developer to build a strip mall or cookie-cutter condos over it.
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think people want to save this site because it happens to be a grand old mansion... if this thing were a blah standard-issue 1940s military brick building people would be so sentimental.
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Insightful)
But you could make the same argument for preserving a factory that built tanks, a shipyard, an airfield, a university laboratory that developed a slightly improved radar. Eventually you have nothing but museums. Some are necessary, but you have to draw the line somewhere. The building didn't shorten the war; the people who worked there did. We honour them by documenting their successes and continuing to build on their work in cryptography, not by turning their workshop into a shrine.
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Interesting)
I have, about 2 years ago. And it's fantastic. You might thinkt hats long as someone took a few photos of it, we can bulldoze it and build luxury flats there. But i disagree.
I normally HATE guided tours of places, but the tour of bletchley is fantastic, given by genuine experts, some of whom worked there, and who have a very deep understanding of technically how the cods were broken. the museum there is awesome, and the re-created machines that you can go and look at are truly astounding. This is literally the birthplace of computing. And you would happily let it disappear?
Here is some pics I took of some of the rebuilt machines, with the guy who did the rebuilding pictured:
http://www.positech.co.uk/blog/enigma1.jpg [positech.co.uk]
http://www.positech.co.uk/blog/enigma2.jpg [positech.co.uk]
http://www.positech.co.uk/blog/enigma3.jpg [positech.co.uk]
BP is well worth saving. Much more so than just ANOTHER stately home, of which we preserve hundreds.
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No, actually I think you're in the majority, but that still doesn't mean you're right. I understand the need to record our past, but not to preserve it at the expense of being able to do something useful with it now.
I think the reason many people feel a need to museumify old buildings is because much of what we build now is ugly and inhuman. That is the problem that needs to be fixed, and then let the ri
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I'll bite because you're obviously (AC) embarrassed by your own opinion.
Many of those pictures you have hanging in your home and/or office exist BECAUSE of copyright. That music and video hogging space on your iPod... you know, the stuff that helps you make it through your workout? It's there precisely because of copyright.
Sure, some aspects of copyright law have gotten out of control. But it is copyright that allows artists to fully pursue their art, and to make the work that you (or others) deem so
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What could possibly go wrong [wikipedia.org] with that idea?
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Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Interesting)
Here in the states, we've got the NSA cryptologic museum [nsa.gov], where among other things you can tool around on an old Enigma from WWII. Can't imagine why Britain wouldn't want something like it.
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Insightful)
Even before that though most of these things are maintained ( or not ) by organisations such as the National Trust or museums and charitable organisations. I can't think of a single thing such as this building which is directly supported by the government, it's just something that in the UK has never been up to the government but is left to private individuals or charitable organisations to deal with. In general the government through it's local councils have no interest at all in maintaining any of our more historic buildings being quite happy instead to let them stand around empty for decades until they have rotted sufficiently to be knocked down and redeveloped. All most all of Birminghams historic Edwardian public baths are currently suffering from this treatment.
There was recently a BBC programme which allowed viewers to vote on which one of a dozen or so worthy historic buildings was given money for maintenance whilst letting the rest continue to fall into disrepair. Britains long range Vulcan bomber is being preserved and renovated by a private group of enthusiasts and BA are refusing to sell Concorde to a similar group of enthusiasts for preservation so in general here in the UK what is preserved and what is not is more or less a random lottery with many things falling by the wayside and being crushed underfoot.
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Informative)
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I don't get why people think that only stupid people play the lottery. I think of it as a form of extremely high risk investment. Sure, most people are going to lose money, especially over the long run. But if you win, the payouts are huge. It's not a good idea to invest every single dollar you have in trying to win the Lottery, because in the end, you'll still likely be
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yep, that's pretty much it. There's only so much funding to go around, and there are thousands and thousands of sites of historical interest competing for it. Bletchley isn't really such a strong competitor; the site itself is of no architectural interest, it's nothing to look at. All it ever was was a bunch of army huts. There are ancient castles and manors falling down which are much more photogenic and attract more tourists.
To me Bletchley is of more intellectual than historic interest: it's where Turing did his work founding the discipline of computer science. As such, I wonder if the best way forward would be for the site to become a technology park, or a research centre attached perhaps to the OU? That would preserve what was important there - the intellectual tradition - even if it meant doing away with most of the WW2-era buildings.
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In England they think that 100 miles is a long way to drive.
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There's no state sanctioned violence against Jews, but reading about how to make explosives is enough to get you taken into custody without charge. I got stop by police in Heathrow, and asked for identification, while waiting for a plane.
According to the piece of paper I was handed telling me about it, they need due cause to stop you. Or they
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Second, the German aggression towards Jews was simply one manifestation of one culture or people group oppressing another. It's not bombastic to believe genocide and oppression might happen again. The reality is, Britain is trying to control their people w
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First, Godwin's law doesn't exist. My and your ability to reply proves that.
Split hairs often, do you?
I think it's a silly and dangerous idea to forbid talking about WWII, because we're all of the same nature and should heed , process and discuss the horrific warnings of history.
Godwin's law doesn't forbid talking about WW2. Godwin's law states: "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." It is traditionally interpreted as a warning against the use of inflammatory rhetoric or exaggerated comparisons. That you had to specifically cite Godwin's law (when no one else had brought it up) tells me that you suspected that your original post might have met one or more of these criteria.
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Your ability to reply is not impacted by this law.
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And, however important the historical significance of the site, it's hardly fair to make a snide remark about not getting funding from a foundation that has MUCH more important issues to deal with.
Indeed... there's no angle here where Bill can trade charity for Windows sales to the government as far as I can tell... little wonder he turned 'em down. Before you think this is 'Bill-bashing', take a look at Mexico as a huge example of how Mssr. Gates does marketshare-pushing in developing countries.
If anything, they should be getting funding from the British government (and obviously THEY don't think it's so important).
Now here, I agree. If it were important to Parliament, they would've obviously done something by now. As it is, Colossus could be moved to the appropriate national museum and given its own place of ho
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Surely it wouldn't break the bank to help keep going a landmark of the industry that gave them their fortune.
Re:Why would they expect Gates Foundation funding? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been there (Score:2)
They also have a bunch of rather nice, second world war cars, but these are out of place in the museum, and mostly not apparent unless you really hunt around.
There may be a lot of interesting history regarding the site, but it has no chance of getting widespread public interest.
The reason is the same as that for the various Watermill restoration projects around the country (to pick an exa
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http://www.pipingdesign.com/FridayFunnies/drafting/album/ [pipingdesign.com]
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The Bletchley Park Trust receives no external funding. It has been deemed ineligible for funding by the National Lottery, and turned down by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation because the Microsoft founder will only fund internet-based technology projects.
The submitted was merely paraphrasing what was in the article, not necessarily having a "go" at Uncle Bill. I actually appreciated the bit of clarification (I was curious as to why one would think a foundation that seems more concerned with disease and poverty would want to save what amounts to a museum...)
Upstairs boarder (Score:4, Interesting)
Except for hubris, I don't see the real benefit in holding on to all that real estate if all they are going to do is slowly bleed to death. If they put the land to work for them, by renting it out as office space, they could probably make enough to keep a smaller museum running.
But what do I know about those English? All I know is that when I go into the bathroom, I'm American. When I come out, I'm American again.
Re:Upstairs boarder (Score:5, Funny)
You should see a doctor about that.
Re:Upstairs boarder (Score:5, Funny)
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There's no hubris there, at least none that I could detect when I visited the place a few years ago.
renting out chunks of Bletchley Park (Score:2)
Trouble is the UK is on the edge of a recession - you might have noticed housing prices being a bit dodgy in the USA recently? and so the office rental market is shrinking not growing. So it's a tough market to be in and 60 year old buildings in Bletchley, well, that's a tough
Barely scraping by? (Score:5, Funny)
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Well, I took a look at the picture. My impression? Damn that would make a nice office or apartment. IF they can't make it as a museum, then on one wants to spend how ever much to look at WWII decrypting stuff. It was important so what. It isn't important right now or the British would fund it. I'm sure the British have a much newer code breaking office complex some where else that they actually consider important.
Come on there were lots of
The British did not break Enigma (Score:5, Informative)
Bletchley Park is where they automated the process of intercepting, decrypting, translating, and analyzing Axis communications. I can't think of any large-scale SIGINT operation that preceded Bletchley, and it was certainly vital to the war effort, but credit where it's due, etc.
Re:The British did not break Enigma (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00016.cfm [nsa.gov]
Re:The British did not break Enigma (Score:5, Informative)
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-Second, the Polish have for the first time ever applied mathematics to decrypting.
-Third, they have developed "Bomba", the first ever decrypting machine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomba_(cryptography))
For more details, read Simon Singh's "The Code Book"
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Which reminds me, I should head down there some evening. I've not been since I moved to London.
Lottery funding (Score:3, Interesting)
For the benefit of those not in the UK, the National Lottery is where you buy a ticket for £1 and choose six numbers. If the numbers you pick come up - then you win a load of cash.
This Lottery was supposed to raise money for what are deemed "Good Causes". These Good Causes are chosen by some committee who seem to have a strange idea with regard to what constitutes a "good cause". Running an elitist venue such as the Royal Opera House and maybe your clientele is dwindling because your prices are bloody ridiculous? Lottery funding to the rescue! There are plenty of examples of this "Old Boy" network, where obscure or unpopular elitist "causes" are funded, whilst small local projects - or indeed projects of National Historical value, such as Bletchley Park, are turned down.
Only a very small percentage of the takings from the Lottery actually makes its way to the causes - the vast majority goes to the company which runs the Lottery. That is one of my biggest complaints about it - Richard Branson has offered on at least two occasions to run the Lottery and to make it a non-profit organisation, but has been turned down on both occasions, despite having the backing of most of the UK!
I am not familiar with how Bletchley is currently funded - presumably by entrance fees? - but I would expect the UK Government to help out, rather than see this go under.
Re:Lottery funding (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Lottery funding (Score:5, Funny)
We have two organizations like this in the US:
The first is called Powerball - runs in many (not all states), and does almost the same thing... only costs a buck and a hope. The profits are divided among participating states and put towards public works projects (e.g. roads, schools, parks...)
The other one is called NASDAQ, though Lord only knows where the profits end up.
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Like most everything in the UK government, NGO's or Quangos, the Lottery fund is run by petty bureaucrats who have no sense of creativity, substance, heritage, or in fact anything else. Like most bureaucrats, they are bureaucrats because they've no imagination, nor ambition, nor skills. And the bad news is that they've also sucked up a lot of finds from The Arts Co
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I agree that the committee's ideas about what to fund seem strange sometimes, though the "strange" Good Causes will get more media attention than the "normal" ones. Most of the money paid into the lottery goes straight back out to those who buy tickets, in the form of prizes.
The money spent on tickets is distributed as follows:
(F
If you read TFA (Score:5, Informative)
Who cares ? (Score:3, Interesting)
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It's hard for us in the US to imagine what the Brits went through during the war. Bletchley, along with the Battle of Britain, was one of their big successes on the home front.
It's all well and good to read about history, but there's something more gripping about a visit to where history was made.
windows (Score:2)
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This is truly sad (Score:5, Informative)
The work that the code breakers at Bletchley park did prevented a lot of Ally deaths. When the Germans instituted using the 4-wheel enigma it was impossible to tell what the U-boats were doing out in the Atlantic Ocean. Because of this, supply boats going to the U.K. were being sunk at a high rate, unable to avoid the U-boats, eventually the Brits could have been forced out of the battle (no war supplies == no war). Near the end of 1942 however, some documented daily settings on the new 4-wheel enigma were pulled off of a sunken U-boat in the Mediterranean [codesandciphers.org.uk] allowing german naval deciphers to be broken. Through the man-power, knowledge, and tools available at Bletchley, they could decipher and relay german naval messages (at least in the Atlantic) to high command often within hours of obtaining them. After this, supply ships in the Atlantic were nearly invisible to German U-boats. The monthly settings booklets still had to be retrieved to continue this, but through missions and sometimes luck most of them were captured
That's the WWII side of the story (or at least a very small part of it).
The importance to /. is probably that this war was the first time machines were used to cipher messages, and thus machines had to do the deciphering. To break the regular ground enigma's daily settings scientists at Bletchley designed and manufactured the Colossus(es) [wikipedia.org]. If you ever see this thing run, especially the interior mechanisms, you'll know this was a great unknown leap towards multi-purpose computing machinery. Unfortunately because of U.K. laws, the work and knowledge of those at Bletchley couldn't be released until sometime in the 80's (I think)
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Disgusted (Score:5, Insightful)
This is exactly the sort of thing that the National Lottery was supposed to help, and exactly the sort of thing that has been let down.
Never mind (Score:3, Insightful)
The things that are important to a nation are discarded, and what gives no benefit gets taxpayers money thrown at it like taxpayers money was going out of fashion.
No exaggeration (Score:5, Insightful)
As for the argument 'you can always move the exhibits to the Science Museum and sell the land': The exhibits are important, but the accomodations themselves make a point that's worth remembering as well. The most vital project of the entire war was being run out of a collection of sheds, basically. To think that 9000 people worked there on the most advanced technology in existence back then, boggles the mind.
The irony. (Score:2, Insightful)
Ingrates.
TFOAE
Turn it into a Historic bldg or Museum (Score:5, Informative)
Members of the public probably don't know or understand (e.g. lack of knowledge of the military) the contributions at Bletchley. I'm not one to usually fight for heritage properties or a museum. But for goodness sake, the worked they did helped destroy countless U-boats (my Canadian grandfather worked on shipping lines crossing the Atlantic risking his neck each time he crossed and so many perished because of the U-Boats), helped gather countless intel on German operations, helped confirm the D-Day operation date and continued to spy on the Germans (just to make sure they weren't up to anything) after WWII. It saved the lives of countless Army, Air and Navy men and women of all nationalities that served in WWII on the European front. And, indirectly, because of this work, it helped put a stop to the Concentration Camps.
Why the hell are they not getting the due respect and attention that they so rightly desire? This is a disgrace. Were I British, I would be fighting for the preservation of this building. I'm not sure that as a Canadian, my words will count for much.
Advertising (Score:2, Informative)
Hard to Visit (Score:3, Insightful)
What should be done? (Score:2, Funny)
Too much land for what it holds (Score:3, Informative)
I've been to Bletchley Park. The problem is that they have only a few things worth exhibiting, like the rebuilt bombe, the rebuilt Colossus, and some real crypto machines from WWII. One big gallery in a major museum could house the collection. But the place is a sizable estate. The famous "huts" aren't much to look at, and some of them are only concrete pads today. The manor house is in decent shape but an architectural mishmash not really worthy of preservation.
They also have a model railroad, a model boat club, an auto collection, a lake with swans, a collection of Churchill-was-here memorabilia, and, inevitably, a gift shop, like too many other English estates open to visitors.
calling us out (Score:2)
How many of us only know or care about this because we really liked Cryptonomicon?
Re:The real problem (Score:5, Interesting)
when you are tripping over history with every other step you take then you'll get pretty relaxed about it as well.
having said that, it make me weep when a properly constructed 150+ year old house get ripped down for a cramped development of flats made from bricks, spit and twigs. it is precisely because of the sheer amount of historical relevance and interest that naturally some things get sacrificed, and once its gone then its gone for ever.
face it, as a attraction Bletchley has to compete with central london only 25 miles away - and when you put it like that it will always lose.
Misunderstanding (Score:3, Insightful)
This only makes sense if you ignore why we use money. Money is simply an exchange of productivity. I work, get money, and then use that money to buy others' productivity. Saying "everything has a price tag" simply means that people are only willing to offer up their productivity if they get someone else's in return. That's the sign of a properly functioning market. If you want to donate
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As a national service, it was never supposed to earn money in the first place. it doesn't "lose" 2 million, it COSTS 2 million. There is a difference that the British government and its advisors can't comprehend.
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The Science Museum.
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I believe it's in the Science Museum in London. Excellent place to visit. While you're in London pay a visit also to the British Museum, full of all the ancient statuary, relics, and important cultural artefacts that we plundered over the century or two in whic
Re:"Hungry land developers are circling." (Score:4, Informative)
Milton Keynes Council declared the site a conservation area in February 1992 and the landowners â" the government's land agency and BT â" withdrew all planning applications. Seven years later, former Bletchley Park Trust director Christine Large landed a deal with certain developers to secure the future of Bletchley Park in the hands of the Trust.
But some developers remain far from dissuaded, recently winning the right to build houses even closer to the wartime facilities. One of the site's exhibition facilities now rests just 10 yards from 21st-century residential properties.
With giant concrete mixers towering over the edge of the Trust's land, Greenish said he feels the remaining green space between Bletchley Park and surrounding surburbia may be lost, though he plans to fight the advance tooth and nail.
Jonah HEX
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Don't ask, don't tell.