China's Cyberwar Against India

An anonymous reader writes "China's cyber warfare army is marching on, and India is suffering silently. Over the past one and a half years, officials said, China has mounted almost daily attacks on Indian computer networks, both government and private, showing its intent and capability."

government attack or botnet?

[gmack]

Is this Chinese government or botnets on Chinese computers?

My server gets nailed daily from China but I doubt their government knows anything about it so I'm finding these stories a bit paranoid.

Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right?

[dave1791]

Well, it seems that the american bourgeois are just as stupid, by buying stuff from communist, the very political class that's dedicaced to eradicate them...

The Chinese stopped being communists in everything but name twenty years ago. Heck, they don't even have a social saftey net worth talking about. That is why everyone in china puts so much pressure on their kids to succeed. In China, your kid's job is your pension. America is more "communist" than China.

Indirect attack on the US

[codepunk]

They know a good portion of our information is likely stored in databases in India. What better way
to obtain that information than to attack a third party with less defenses.

Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right?

[Dogtanian]

The Chinese stopped being communists in everything but name twenty years ago. Heck, they don't even have a social saftey net worth talking about. That is why everyone in china puts so much pressure on their kids to succeed. In China, your kid's job is your pension. America is more "communist" than China.

It's been said that present-day China is in truth the world's first example of a mature fascist society- and I would assume that this meant fascism in its original sense, which was strongly corporatist.

It's also been said (something like) China went straight from communism to corporatism, bypassing democracy.

Why won't they just...

[harry666t]

...ban Chinese IPs on their routers?

How do they tell who's attacking?

[hnjjz]

There have been a lot of these Chinese "cyber attack" articles recently, but as far as I can tell, all of them are simply attributing attacks from Chinese IP addresses as "attacks by China". China now has surpassed the US in internet usage in absolute numbers, and many (if not most) of the networked computers in China are running unpatched versions of Windows XP, making them the ideal breeding ground for Botnets (just take a look at your router logs). But are these Botnets actually being controlled by people in China? If the SPAM spewed out by these Botnets is any indication, then the answer is a resounding no.

AFAIR Estonia ...

[hany]

... targeted attack against Estonia shut that country down ... That, officials said, was executed by cyber terrorists from Russia ...

AFAIR (as far as I remember) that attack on Estonia has been performed by one guy. Yes, some servers used in the attack were based in Russia. Yes, a lot of zombies around the world has been used in the attack. And yes this guy's nationality was Russian, but the guy has been citizen of Estonia.

But abovementioned officials may have far more information. Maybe the guy was a citizen of Estonia but secretly employed by his mother Russia. Who knows?

well

[circletimessquare]

if you view china itself as one giant corporation, and the world as the marketplace, you can call it capitalism. just shift the scope of what you are talking about from how things work inside china to how china relates to the world

how things work inside china is police state: you have no rights to expression, to vote, to the press, or anything other than work. every aspect of your media is controlled by the government, every aspect of your expression is censored and unapproved expression (talking ill of your government, oppressed minorities, or even just pornography places you at the jeopardy of being punished)

so this is indeed not capitalism. it is merely life inside the corporate structure. a corporation exists within a captalist framework, but life INSIDE the corporation, how things work inside the machine, are not capitalistic, they are autocratic, an oligarchy (i called china an autocracy, it would be more accurate to call it an oligarchy: it is not run by one grumpy old man, but a gang of grumpy old men)

"x terrorist" label starting to piss me off

[LockeOnLogic]

Not everyone who commits a crime or act of aggression is a fucking terrorist. Just cause you use the internet to carry out a malicious act does not make you a "CYBER TERRORIST". If I drive my car down the road like an asshole it doesn't make me a vehicular terrorist. This language has been used to promote an endless conflict used to justify indefinite wartime power. Makes me feel we are just as programmed as many of the chinese.

very true

[circletimessquare]

i would modify your comment to say that china is not a capitalist country on the INSIDE, but it is very much a capitalist country in how it relates to the wider world: china is one giant corporation

look at your average corporation: on the inside of the corporation it is run like an autocracy, or an oligarchy, just liek china is. the average corporation exists within a capitalist framework, but capitalism has nothing to do with how the corporation functions on the inside

and so it is with china: view china as one giant corporation, and you understand capitalism's true relationship to china

i'm just riffing on my previous comment, btw:

http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=543286&cid=23299960 [slashdot.org]

Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right?

[superbus1929]

Communism - by it's sheer paper definition - is virtually impossible on a large scale. You still need leaders to make things move. Said leaders want to stay leaders. Boom - no more Communism.

Personally, I subscribe to the line of thinking that every political organization - regardless of the initial system - inevitably becomes an oligarchy. It's not only happened in China, but it's happened in Russia and the United States as well.

Re:I call BS

[WindBourne]

Actually, before an attack can occur, you have to know what to hit. Now with that said, nearly all major countries do a lot of DOD related research in their universities. And yes, that includes Germany. The advantage to these countries is that it is a lot cheaper in universities, than in a DOD installation. A big advantage is that many intellects are liberals who have no desire to work directly for the military (above it all, etc.). The advantage for china, is that security is a great deal loser and it gives them access to new ideas that have not made it into production. They can either take it and change it, provide a defense against it.

No, the attack on India is real. No doubt that some of it is not a China gov. attack, but ppl looking to own a system, but make no mistake, that all countries that are not closely aligned with China are under attack. And I would guess that even the few that are aligned with China are under attack.

Re:not as such

[Anonymous Coward]

I think a lot of people like to talk about the Chinese as "brainwashed" when they're really just rabidly nationalist. All of these pro-Beijing people at the Olympic torch runs aren't there because the government activated a chip implanted in their brains, they're responding to what they see as the West ganging up on their country. China is finally coming into their own on the world stage, and they're still very defensive from years of being behind and being walked on. I don't know if it's the government or just the echo chamber that cultivates this view, but it seems very pervasive, and they try to tie these Tibet protests to decades-old colonialism.

I can't say anything about your "can't change the recipe" anecdote, but I think maybe that just fit into your pre-existing view of China. The West has its narrative of Chinese people being brainwashed servants of their government, incapable of self-examination. China has its narrative of the rest of the world ganging up on them and trying to hold them back, some version of "The Man" keeping them down. Neither one is true, and the real truth must be somewhere in the middle.

Re:Im no racist

[LandDolphin]

Well,

At least in America, we vote for our current administration, where are the Chinese do not get that luxury.

Just saying, that in a Democracy, such as the US, it is more appropriate to refer to things the government does, as the will of the people. Because well, the majority of people who vote, voted that administration in. Where as, in places like China, the will of the people is no represented by the Government.

It's easier than you think...

[XchristX]

...given that China has an absolute authoritarian system of control, and India is bitterly divided along ideological lines, China should have little trouble penetrating and subjugating the country. Already, the Han Chinese chauvinists have been responsible for funding the entire Communist party machinery in India, and have effectively created a subversive government (The Communist Party of India) that is the agent of a hostile foreign country. The CIA has already provided evidence as to how Indian Communists, underthe instructions of their Chinese paymasters, infiltrated the Indian Army during the Sino-Indian war and betray military secrets to Beijing.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-07.pdf [cia.gov]
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-08.pdf [cia.gov]
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-09.pdf [cia.gov]
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/ESAU/esau-15.pdf [cia.gov]

Highlights include:

#CPI(M) [Communist Party of India Marxist] heavyweight HK Surjeet influenced by Communist Soviet Russia to setup an underground organization
#CPI(M) did proceed to recruit a secret organization within the Indian Army.
#China and Soviet Russia both insisted that the CPI(M) must develop a standby apparatus capable of armed resistance, while intensifying penetration of Indian Military forces.
#With the People's Liberation Army now present along the Indian Border the Indian Party had a channel of support for Armed Operations and a potential "liberator" in the event of mass uprisings - 13 Sept 1959
#4 powerful radio sets had been installed in the office of the China Review in Calcutta to listen to broadcasts from Beijing
#Chinese Financial Subsidies to sections of the CPI(M) particularly the left faction strongholds in West Bengal
#A foreign supply base was now available for the underground organizations with the Chinese occupation of Tibet and other frontier areas.
#Letter asking for collaboration in Indian underground organization work aimed at an eventual revolution, because China has a border with India and can provide arms and supplies.
#Also Jaipal Singh, head of the illegal organization within the Indian Army decided to reactivate his organization in 1961 following the hard left faction gaining control of the party.

In addition, the Communist Party of India have successfully carried out several pogroms and genocides against Hindus and Tibetan refugees in India, particularly during the 70's and 80's, all as part of a Trotskyist strategy of maintaining a state of "permanent revolution" (the most recent one being the Nandigram SEZ Massacre), all at the behest of their Chinese paymasters.

China has also aggressively sponsored the terrorist Naxalite Communist terror movement in India by financing major Communist radicals (ethnic Bengali Bolshevists like Charu Mazumdar and Kanu Sanyal received training from Chinese war camps in Tibet only to subsequently lead the naxalite reign of terror across India's "Red Corridor").

For a developing country, India is too damn democratic. If India was more authoritarian it would have taken care of such subversive Communist elements a long time ago, but India's democracy is it's greatest weakness, particularly when it is surrounded by totalitarian regimes like Pakistan and China that represent a major existential threat to the country.

Re:Of all the countries..

[marnues]

I don't really know the situation of Indian society, but this does sound a lot like the people in this country (the US) that claim its a terrible thing to be a white male. Apparently we white males lead such a hard life because of all the advantages given to minorities, mostly equal opportunity. There are the things like affirmative action, but they are few and far in between and realistically tend to give only a slight advantage at the expense of us repressed white males. Don't look at the numbers so hard, look at who is actually attending the good schools and running the government and businesses. If its not the upper caste, you have a point. Otherwise you might want to think harder about the situation.