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Security Transportation

Airport Security Prize Announced 381

Reservoir Hill writes "Verified Identity Pass, a firm that offers checkpoint services at airports, has announced a $500,000 award for any solution that will make airport security checks quicker and simpler for passengers. The cash prize will go to any individual, company or institution that can get customers through airport security 15% faster, at a cost of less than 25 cents per passenger, using technology or processes that will be approved by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA). Passengers must not need to remove their clothes or shoes, something that slows down processing significantly. "We're looking at moving things that are conceptual or in the lab to things that we can deploy," says company spokesman Jason Slibeck and added that over 150 individuals, start-ups, defense contractors and universities have shown an interest in the prize. One promising procedure is mass spectroscopy, which involves analyzing the mass-charge ratio of ions on a swab sample taken from a passenger's clothing or air collected from around them to spot traces of substances including explosives or drugs. The Pre-Registration Package Information Sheet is available online."
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Airport Security Prize Announced

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  • Eliminate it? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nog_lorp ( 896553 ) * on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @08:32PM (#22496596)
    The summary says nothing about maintaining security. Just abolish it, or limit it to the bare minimum and then have an air-marshal on every plain to stop people with box-cutters.
  • I know! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kongit ( 758125 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @08:34PM (#22496618)
    Remove all Airport security. Lots more convenient, and probably about as secure.


    Do I win?
  • Re:How about (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Atario ( 673917 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @08:41PM (#22496690) Homepage
    I bet it's a lot less than 25 cents per passenger, once amortized over the life of each gun.
  • Re:How about (Score:3, Insightful)

    by plover ( 150551 ) * on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @08:41PM (#22496692) Homepage Journal
    No, they turn them when deboarding the plane. Amortize them over several years use and it'll be less than $0.25 per passenger.

    And I don't care about rubber bullets. They have to be lethal in order to be an effective deterrent. Mythbusters showed pretty conclusively that a bullet's not going to do much of anything to an airplane in flight -- no massive depressurization, etc. And a suicide terrorist isn't likely to bet their life on a 25% chance that their gun will contain a live bullet AND be a "good enough" shot to hit a vital control surface or cable from within the passenger cabin. Might want to armor the fuel tanks, though.

  • by toupsie ( 88295 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @08:41PM (#22496698) Homepage
    The main problem with airport security is the people manning the checkpoints. Their goal is not to get you through in the quickest period of time. They are not professional, they do not care about the happiness of their customers and appear to get their kicks by making your life miserable with their "authority". If you complain about their behavior, is rectified or do you get a rectal exam for it? There should be bonus incentives for prompt and courteous service. Have random samples of folks that have been through security give feedback on their service. Run "tests" to ensure security. Make someone accountable for the service. Unfortunately, government agencies are never accountable for the service provided to citizens. Run it like a for profit business where the customer is the focus.
  • by Nursie ( 632944 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @08:41PM (#22496704)
    Stop the ridiculous liquid thing for a start.

    Yes, there WAS a plot to do that. It was an epic fail from the start and there's no reasons to keep the restrictions in place.

    Hey, I have a good one, everyone checks in *everything* and flies naked. Then we'll finally be safe.
  • Re:Eliminate it? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by The End Of Days ( 1243248 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @08:42PM (#22496722)
    Hell, hand out box cutters to every passenger. Sure, some people are gonna get hurt but no planes will be hijacked ever again.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @08:46PM (#22496764)
    Quicker. Simpler. Cheaper. What's missing? Oh yes, that's right... HOW ABOUT "MORE EFFECTIVE?"

    If you want *effective* airline security, follow the best model in the world: Israel's airline, El-Al. There, if a guard so much as doesn't like your aftershave -- you're off the flight. And if you disagree, you get to talk to the business end of a submachine gun and will probably spend the night in a jail cell, at the least. They take that shit seriously because they have to - they are quite literally surround by tens of millions of people (yes, mostly Muslims) that want them dead.
    All baggage is pressure/decompression tested (to check for pressure-trigger bombs). It is all chemically "sniffed". It is X-Rayed. Everyone goes through a metal detector. etc. etc. etc.

    You can have safety. Or you can have convenience. But so long as there are tens of millions who want to kill you, you cannot have both.

    But we're still living in a fairytale world here in the US. Some think we can negotiate with the world's murderous fanatics. Just talk out our differences. They'll talk us all into either a burqua or a grave.
    --Jack
  • by EmbeddedJanitor ( 597831 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @08:52PM (#22496832)
    The main purpose behind the security is to keep the population frightened and annoyed. A frightened populaton is easier to control. To claim the prize you need to demonstrate its effectiveness at keeping the population under control too.
  • Soup Nazi Style (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MagicDude ( 727944 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @08:55PM (#22496870)
    A lot of the holdup are people who don't know the drill at airport security. You always have to take of your shoes, you always need to empty your pockets, you always need to take the laptop out of its bag, and you should just minimize how much metal you're carrying (before I enter security, I just toss all my pocket change into my carry on, rather than fishing for it at Xray, and then putting it back in my pocket). When you watch the experienced business travelers, they know the drill, and how to get to the other side of security quite quickly. To this end, I suggest that security use a soup nazi style of handling the line. You show up to the front of the line, shoes off, coat over your arm, carry on over your shoulder, ticket and ID in your hand (completely out of the wallet), step to the conveyor belt, a basket will be waiting for you, place everything in the basket, take two steps to the right, go through the metal detector, pick up basket en mass to separate re-dressing area where you will leave the basket, and then proceed to gate. Any breach in this protocol (fishing for ID, untying shoes, being told that you need to take your laptop out of your bag), and all your belongings will be returned to you, and you will be sent to the back of the line (don't worry, you should be back to the front in 20 minutes or so). Travelers with young children will be given a modicum of leeway, but not too much.
  • by Simonetta ( 207550 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @08:57PM (#22496894)
    Seriously. Why are the Americans obsessed with searching for traces of drugs? Most so-called 'drug users' that drive the Americans batshit are harmless young cannibus smokers. And if they develop a machine that detects microscopic and molecular trace levels of cannibus (that's weed, you'all), well they are going to find it. Because roughly 10% of the people going through what they call 'airport security' are going to have molecular levels of exposure to cannibus. Seek and ye shall find.

        So what are the stupid Americans going to do then when they find some young person with trace molecular levels of cannibus in their aura? Shut down the airport? Call out the National Guard? Taser the poor motherfucker over and over and make him or her flop around on the airport floor like a white shark dragged into a tuna boat? All of the above?

        And what are they going to do when it happens again a half hour later?

        What the fuck is wrong with these people?

        Americans! Let us give you a hint about security. Forget about finding the molecular levels of cannibus on random college students. Concentrate on the people who are seriously interested in blowing up airplanes.

        Here's another hint. No serious terrorist is going to try hijacking a commercial airliner any more. If they are serious about flying a big plane into a place where a plane has no reason to be they will spend the money to rent a private plane, or blackmail some corrupt CEO into letting them borrow the corporate jet. Which never get inspected by what these bozos call 'security'. Because they are corporate private property. Which according to what passes for logic in the American mind, can't be used for terrorist activities because it is corporate property. Inconceivable!

        If the Americans were really serious about making their airports safe they would turn the whole operation over to the Israelis or even the British. After all, this would give them more time to go around tasering random young people found in the presence of molecular traces of 'drugs'.
  • by lgw ( 121541 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @09:01PM (#22496944) Journal
    I am not afraid of terrorists. I am not afraid of what might happen to my airplane, or at the airport. I do, however, value my freedom, and a constitution that *specifically* says that the goverment can't search people this way. I wish people in power would stop being afraid on my behalf.
  • by Toreo asesino ( 951231 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @09:03PM (#22496966) Journal
    A few times now, I've travelled on a plane with heavy computer equipment. Every time, i've checked in the main boxes minus hard-discs which I've taken as hand-luggage. Sometimes in fact, it's been so heavy the baggage at the end it's needed to be checked in via the heavy/awkward baggage drop as it's approached the 40kg mark. The thing is, every time I've done this, I've always made sure they known there's a computer inside my bag because to my mind, solid steel casing encasing circuit boards with wires coming out of it is about as suspicious a package as you can get.

    What gets me is that no one seems to give a shit about what's in there - not once have they even looked to check when it goes through the ex-ray machine; lighting it up like a Christmas tree. They just assume that because it's being checked in with me, it's safe? I don't know, this is just my experience.
    The discs I'm taking on as hand-luggage is a different story. I've had to explain to person after person that they're "hard-discs for a kom-pooo-ta!" not in fact weapons of mas destruction, nor agents of deadly nerve gas.

    Now to my mind, if you can get a 40kg bag checked into a plane without any/many checks because it's not hand-luggage, you're just asking for trouble. The bombs that went of in Madrid were mobile detonated....what if after boarding the plane you don't suddenly "get a headache" just before take-off (of course they wont take off with your bag still in the hold), nip outside and blow the lot to kingdom come once at a safe distance? Baggage handlers aren't known for their efficiency, and imagine doing it on a plane with 300 passengers.

    My point is, to my mind, this is a huge hole. Most plane hijackers have been willing to sacrifice themselves too, so just getting a "computer" into the hold would be enough...
  • Re:How about (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Harmonious Botch ( 921977 ) * on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @09:03PM (#22496968) Homepage Journal
    I think you are confusing the citizens of the USA with the government of the USA.

    ( It's a common mistake; the government does it all the time. )
  • Re:Eliminate it? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Brian Gordon ( 987471 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @09:08PM (#22497012)
    The American political system is about getting the most votes; if planes scare Americans then that's what they're going to lock down- why would you expect anything else from a constitutional republic? Also about airports.. why not just get the national guard involved? You sure don't see many incidents in Israel that got beyond "Man pulls gun in airport, gets hand then head blasted off with 50 caliber sniper rifle"..
  • by nickhart ( 1009937 ) <nickhartNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @09:24PM (#22497160) Homepage

    I call this prize throwing good money after bad.

    Here's a novel solution: stop bombing people. Not only will we reduce the number of people that want to bomb us in return, we can save half a trillion dollars annually from slashing the military budget and closing every overseas military base. With all that extra cash we can afford all kinds of security, not to mention national health care, schools, repairing infrastructure, jobs... you name it. Of course, we also may find we don't need as much security.

  • Re:Eliminate it? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Beardo the Bearded ( 321478 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @09:28PM (#22497220)
    Yeah, can we use statistical analysis to compare the number of people who die in terrorist-related airplane accidents compared to, say, the number of people who die in car accidents or toilet-related accidents?

    I think the line is: "On Sept 11, 2001, 40,000 children starved to death."

    But yeah, your air-marshal plan kicks ass and you should get a cheque. Never mind some ridiculously over-priced chemical sniffer (hello, dogs?) or facial recognition software (hello, it's fooled by smiling).

    Just have a guy (or girl) with a gun on every flight. Perfect solution.

    Oh, add a Faraday cage to every plane so remote explosives can't get their signals.

  • by Dracos ( 107777 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @09:32PM (#22497260)

    ...from a perspective not saturated by fear is to revert to the policies and procedures in place on September 10, 2001

  • Re:How about (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wumingzi ( 67100 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @09:36PM (#22497286) Homepage Journal
    Wrong answer to the question.

    There is//// was a well-established process for hijackings. Do whatever they say. Fly the plane wherever they want to go. EVERY country on earth has signed anti-hijacking treaties. Yes, even really
    wacky places like Iran and North Korea. You don't sign the treaty, you can't fly anywhere.

    Once the plane lands on the ground, bring out the negotiators as the first line, and the SWAT team as a backup. The hijackers will be arrested, hopefully nobody gets hurt, and the appeal of hijacking as a crime is very low. Crimes with a 0% success rate usually don't get repeated.

    One reason 9/11 was so successful is that with the exception of Flight 93, everyone followed the script.

    Nobody is EVER going to do anything a hijacker asks for ever again.

    As for your suggestion, I am seeing a major problem.

    I will assume that you are trained in the use of firearms and take their use seriously. You would never point a gun at anything unless your goal was to put a hole in it. Not as a joke, not as a threat, not for any other reason. If you wanted a hole in something, you'd raise the gun and pull the trigger. Otherwise, you'd keep it where it belongs.

    You are proposing giving firearms to civilians, many of whom have no experience with firearms. Several of them will be drinking on the flight, at least a few will be pissed off by the food, being crowded in small seats, the fact that their boss hated them so much as to send them to Poughkeepsie or whatever other humiliations real and imaginary are meted out on air travelers today.

    There is a 75% chance that the gun you issued the civilian shoots blanks. As a civilian (unlike someone trained in the use of firearms), I'd say that means pretty good odds that pointing a gun at the stewardess, the fatty next to you who should have bought two tickets, or the kid who is playing rap music at 110db over his headphones, thereby aggravating your migraine will do nothing but scare them straight.

    God help us the first time some idiot does that and s/he's the one with a loaded gun.

    The fallacy of these sort of solutions (I would use the l-word, but it would just piss people off) is the belief that all humans are rational players. This is indicative that you really need to spend more time around humans.
  • Re:I know! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by danielsfca2 ( 696792 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @09:37PM (#22497294) Journal

    someone who simply decides to take a gun on board a plane with you and shoot you.


    OMFG. How can one be so paranoid about foul play on an airplane? You know, this same guy who wants to shoot you on the plane could just as easily shoot you:
    • On a bus
    • On a commuter train
    • In the line at 7/11
    • At the gas pump
    • In the line at Comcast waiting to drop off your cable box
    • At Starbucks while you wait for your latte
    • At work! The janitor might be a terrorist!
    • The toll-taker at the bridge


    Now please explain to me why we need this bullcrap draconian security theatre to board a plane, but we don't need it at all those locations I listed above? I dare you.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @10:00PM (#22497464)
    Doesn't fix everything, but a big improvement could come from having all the airlines standardize on a 2D barcode for boarding passes. Today, they all use their own encoding, and don't encode the same data.

    A 2d barcode would allow enough data space for crytographic signing, and standardizing would allow for a scanner at the security checkpoint to verify who the boarding pass is for, and display the name for the TSA agent to check against the traveler's ID.

    If you had that level of accountability, I would assume that some of the other requirements could be relaxed, providing the time savings. A sort of poor man's "registered traveler" program.

  • Re:Eliminate it? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by WaXHeLL ( 452463 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @10:04PM (#22497496)

    Oh, add a Faraday cage to every plane so remote explosives can't get their signals.
    Because the good old explosives have a local timer instead of a remote timer? /troll
  • Re:Eliminate it? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Nefarious Wheel ( 628136 ) * on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @10:12PM (#22497582) Journal

    ...is there any rational reason ... for the huge focus on the damned planes?

    Not really, no. While we focus on aircraft they'll focus on something else while we're distracted.

    What about an entirely different commerce disruption activity, such as threatening communications (e.g. recent undersea cable mystery) or even critical infrastructure points (e.g. the California Aqueduct)? Are we spending sufficient of our anti-terror effort on things that the enemy have not drawn our attention toward?

    Look at the Secret Service guarding the President. They don't all stare at they guy they're guarding, or the place where the last attempt was made. They're looking everywhere and they're trained to cover the zones. If we fixate on aircraft as a point of vulnerability we're in danger of ignoring the other possibilities. We need to think, not react.

  • Re:Eliminate it? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @10:35PM (#22497778) Homepage Journal
    From the TFA: "One promising procedure is mass spectroscopy, which involves analyzing the mass-charge ratio of ions on a swab sample taken from a passenger's clothing or air collected from around them to spot traces of substances including explosives or drugs."

    I thought the job of the TSA was to make it safe to fly....catch potential terrorists. What does that have to do with detecting drugs? Do they think someone smuggling a couple of joints with them, is going to fire them up, and bring down the plane?

    I'm surprised they aren't wanting to detect large sums of cash....we all know THAT will solve a lot of hijacking problems.

    It'll sure show those MIT blackjack whizzes a thing or two...no more strapping money on your body to go to Vegas with....

  • by Mr. Roadkill ( 731328 ) on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @10:55PM (#22497932)
    I had mod points, but wasn't sure whether to mod you flambait or something else - don't quite know what.

    So, I'll reply instead, on the off-chance that it was a serious question.

    I am not a Muslim. Hell, I'm not really much of anything. But I've picked up a few things about religions in general and people in general. Regardless of their religion, people will act as people do - and that often means having the strength to do what they believe is necessary and appropriate to the circumstances. Whether that's "right" or "wrong" to you depends on how it affects you or people you know or your belief structures - again, that's human.

    Many Muslims believe lying is prohibited, regardless of whether the person being lied to is a muslim or not. That's fine, many other religions hold similar views about lies - the Ninth Commandment, anybody?

    However, there appears to be room for a practice called al-Taquiyya (see http://www.al-islam.org/ENCYCLOPEDIA/chapter6b/1.html [al-islam.org] ) Other religious scholars in other religions have likely held similar views - the early Christians under Rome kept their beliefs secret, as a matter of self-preservation. I wouldn't mind betting that Jewish theologians have debated things like "passing for non-Jewish" in the Third Reich. A strange form of Christianity evolved in Japan between when the Jesuits were kicked out and when Japan started to become more open again, because families had to keep their beliefs secret or face persecution. People will do what's necessary.

    Now, on the surface, there appears to be nothing wrong with al-Taquiyya at all. Indeed, in times of persecution or harassment, what's wrong with hiding matters and keeping private things private for the sake of your survival and the survival of your family? Allah will know your intentions, and won't object if it's a matter of survival. No hypocracy required - it's better to be alive and a good person who told a necessary lie than a dead good person who never told a lie in their life. You can't do more good works if you're dead.

    The trouble is, people are people - and interpret things differently, and have different priorities. One person might interptet al-Taquiyya to permit them to do what's needful - to denounce the Prophet and Allah in order to avoid being stoned by an angry mob, for example, but only in direct self-preservation or direct preservation of another. Another might perhaps interpret it as permitting the denouncement of Allah and the Prophet in order to gain access to an aircraft, because they believe it's necessary to gain access to and blow up a passenger aircraft to advance the cause of muslims everywhere. From their perspective, they'd be thinking of the bigger picture.

    So, no. Asking people to denounce the Prophet of Islam wouldn't do you any good as it wouldn't necessarily reveal those you wanted to reveal - they'd perhaps consider it necessary to speak words other than those in their hearts. It would, however, probably reveal a lot of people of other faiths who believe it's inappropriate to denounce other faiths. Let's see, false-positives, false-negatives... not particularly useful.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @11:16PM (#22498094)
    Rapid decompression at high altitude results im way more than just a loud hiss, granted it wont shred the aircraft or make it explode like some people might think, but it will not be pleasant for anyone aboard & will create an emergency situation for the flight crew. Emergency descents from cruise altitude to breathable altitude are not fun or safe.

    Additionally, while you dont think the O2 masks in the cabin are particularly useful, that doesnt change the fact that theyre attached to a system of pipes carrying pure oxygen at anywhere up to 1800 psi.

    "Since there is air at the altitude the plane is flying, and the fact that in about 90 seconds you will be at an altitude with sufficient air, they really aren't need."

    typically airliners cruise at around 35,000 feet, "breathable atmosphere" for the average person anyway, stops at about 15,000 to 20,000 feet. so your statement that the airliner is capable of decending 15 to 20,000 feet in 90 seconds is clearly false. The FAA frowns on descending at more than 1000 fpm as it is likely to cause discomfort, 10,000 fpm can cause all sorts of health problems & a pilot would have to be crazy to try a suicidal dive like that anyway, you would redline the airspeed in no time.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 20, 2008 @11:27PM (#22498186)

    Any aircraft incident large enough to cause deployment means the aircraft will desend rapidly
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 [wikipedia.org]
  • Re:How about (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zippthorne ( 748122 ) on Thursday February 21, 2008 @12:08AM (#22498448) Journal
    Back oh about 7 years ago, and for the previous half-century, the airlines were responsible for what happened on their flights. As a result, they chose to set their terms of doing business: they demanded that passengers agree not to carry weapons and submit to a search to prove they are not carrying weapons.

    This was perfectly acceptable, as, as private entities, they are well within their rights to set whatever terms of doing business they wish, with very few exceptions. I.e., some requirements that are to onerous, or unreasonable disclaimers of liability are not enforceable, but the particular terms they chose don't fall under that category.

    You still had your second amendment right, but you agreed to refrain from exercising it as part of the terms of the ticket.

    Following September 11, 2001, Federal agencies took over the rule-making and enforcing, and were able to violate constitutionally protected rights because travelers had gotten used to the restrictions when they were made by an organization that actually had the authority to request them. That's why the second amendment stops at the airport gates.

    Fortunately, you don't actually have to cross the airport gates to travel by air. Private charters, buddies, etc, can all fly without ever connecting to a terminal. You can, of course, take whatever you want with you on those flights (as long as the charter company or your friend don't object) GA, the best kept secret of the aviation industry.
  • Already solved. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Thursday February 21, 2008 @12:45AM (#22498728) Homepage Journal
    Hell, hand out box cutters to every passenger. Sure, some people are gonna get hurt but no planes will be hijacked ever again.

    That's not an issue - the problem of airplanes being hijacked and used as weapons was solved at 10:03 AM on 2001-09-11 over a field in Shanksville, PA.

    'Average' Americans figured out the security equation just more than an hour after the first plane hit Tower 1.

    Everything since is a distraction.
  • by EaglemanBSA ( 950534 ) on Thursday February 21, 2008 @01:31AM (#22499046)
    I hate to say it, but I agree. I've not been afraid of terrorists, even on 9/11. The only way I've felt towards terrorists since then is pissed off. What I'm afraid of is the US government. They are the ones with the power to limit my freedoms, and are doing so more and more each day.

    Somehow the words "a more perfect union" don't quite embody what I'm seeing here.
  • Re:I know! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Thursday February 21, 2008 @01:44AM (#22499138)
    You know, this same guy who wants to shoot you on the plane could just as easily shoot you: ...

    You're confused. Air travel security is NOT about protecting passengers. It's about protecting the airplane (expensive), the airline (big corporations), the perception of air travel in general (industry), and anything the airplane may crash onto (collateral damage). The people are of little consequence and the government cares little about you/us.

  • Re:amendment++ (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Thursday February 21, 2008 @01:52AM (#22499176) Homepage Journal

    Times changes - have you seen the Muslim interment camps? Thanks goodness, you haven't.

    We haven't seen them, but sadly, this is only because the people in power have gotten smarter about hiding they. Now, they put these camps in Cuba, various European countries, etc. Sure, they're not rounding up every Muslim in the U.S. this time, but they are periodically treating folks who live in Muslim communities like criminals, and it is highly likely that there are people who in the U.S. internment camps like Gitmo who shouldn't be there.

    It's the New American Way: reduce the head count and offshore everything.... *sigh*

  • by superash ( 1045796 ) on Thursday February 21, 2008 @02:06AM (#22499246)
    I can tell you exactly what will happen. A quite hiss. You can not create a fiery disaster on a plane with a handgun, or a shot gun. Also, the person being shot at will die.
    First of all, when you fire a weapon there is a good enough chance that you will miss the target and your bullet peirces the ceiling. Not to mention that the chances increase exponentially if you have never fired before and it increases 5 fold if its a shotgun.

    All this ignoring the fact the O2 masks are useless. They ahve never saved a life. Any aircraft incident large enough to cause deployment means the aircraft will desend rapidly, preferably under control, but not always.
    Now, assume the bullet hits the ceiling and almost immediately the aircraft will start de-pressurizing (venting oxygen too) which is a very bad thing (read Hypoxia). In general, commercial aircraft are pressurized at a maximum cabin altitude equivalent to about 8,000 feet, where it is possible to breathe normally without an oxygen mask. This is when the oxygen masks come in handy as you are venting oxygen into the atmosphere.

    Since there is air at the altitude the plane is flying, and the fact that in about 90 seconds you will be at an altitude with sufficient air, they really aren't need.
    Are you kidding me? Why do you think people who climb mountains carry oxygen masks? What is this air that you are talking about? The air is so thin at high altitudes you can hardly breathe. And no, the plane will not descend so rapidly if it was just a bullet hole. What makes you think the plane will descend within 90 sec? The ceiling hull will surely hold if its just a bullet hole.
  • by caliburngreywolf ( 1218464 ) on Thursday February 21, 2008 @03:15AM (#22499622)
    What these guys want is a way to get cash for the few willing to pay. Meanwhile, I have a way to speed the lines for all, and the cost is minimal. But because it helps regular passengers, is ridiculously simple to implement, and impossible to patent, they don't want it. Maybe the TSA will have a prize....
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 21, 2008 @05:08AM (#22500042)
    The previous poster has obviously never been to Heathrow airport:

    go to London Heathrow airport. It's nice. It's pleasant

    This doesn't sound like any Heathrow airport I've ever been to.
  • by jrumney ( 197329 ) on Thursday February 21, 2008 @05:19AM (#22500104)

    Even just having the same person who scanned your bag searching it would be an improvement. I recently took a trip through Heathrow, Schipol and Narita airports. I thought the whole liquid thing had been relaxed months ago, so I'd packed some stuff in my hand luggage that it turns out I shouldn't have. There were also some liquids in there that were OK under the current rules. Every airport flagged my bag up for a hand search as it went through the scanner. At Heathrow, they found one of the bottles that was OK, and flagged me through. Transiting at Schipol, they found the bottle of overpriced water I'd bought airside at Heathrow, confiscated it and flagged me through. At Narita, they found everything, but only by putting my bag through the scanner about 5 times.

    In each case, the person searching my bag had no idea what they were looking for, and only Narita had a policy of putting hand searched bags back through the scanner to check that they'd found everything.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 21, 2008 @06:54AM (#22500480)

    Additionally, while you dont think the O2 masks in the cabin are particularly useful, that doesnt change the fact that theyre attached to a system of pipes carrying pure oxygen at anywhere up to 1800 psi.
    They aren't. Usually there's a small canister with some chemicals inside that produce oxygen after the reaction is started by yanking the tube of the oxigen mask. This is much more reliable, fault tolerant, lighter and cheaper than a pressurized system through the entire plane.

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