Vista SP1 Released to Manufacturing

Reverend Ninja writes "According to the Windows Vista team blog, Windows Vista SP1 has been released to manufacturing. It appears we'll have to wait until mid-March to play with it though, as the team cites that they want everyone to have a 'great install experience'. 'Service Pack 1 brings new improvements that are based on feedback we heard from our customers. It further improves the reliability and performance of Windows Vista. The information we collect thanks to tools like the Customer Experience Improvement Program, Online Crash Analysis, and Windows Error Reporting help us learn about where and when customers are having issues with Windows Vista and the applications that run on it. Since these issues have a direct impact on our customers' experiences, we've invested time and energy to make this better. While Windows Vista Service Pack 1 is an important milestone, we will continue to invest in the continuous improvement process.'"

I'm tired of the euphemisms

[trolltalk.com]

the team cites that they want everyone to have a 'great install experience'.

Come off it already. "great install experience" ... hey, its not a f*cking condo timeshare!

And just to show that I'm not reserving my spleen for venting on Microsoft, This is as stupid as the naming conventions that have taken over in the open-source world, calling different versions by weird names,, like 'Gutsy Gibbon'.

Hard Evidence Of Vista Poor Sales and Performance?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've used a Vista machine at work for a little while now and don't really see it for being anything other than just another Windows version with cosmetic changes for the types of functions I use it for. I am mystified at the claims made about the operating system. Does anyone have any actual evidence that:

Sales are actually worse than previous Windows versions?

Actual poor performance on systems that actually meet the minimum requirements?

Problems with apps or games that weren't fixed with updates?

Security or virus problems?

Or any of the seemingly million other problems the operating system is claimed to have?

Re:I'm tired of the euphemisms

[Viol8]

This sort of crap has been going on a while now with every company trying to talk up the most trivial action into sounding something earth shattering or life changing. HOw many companies now just have a product? Not many , most have a "mission" or a "vision" in the hope that this juvenile over emphasis of everything will somehow fool people into thinking they're really some sort of spin off of the SAS or some high brow philosphical deep thinkers , rather than some shitty little cleaning services company or whatever. Everyone apart from marketing morons and some middle management still stuck in the early 90s is sick of it.

So how many 5 year old bugs fixed in SP1?

[WillAffleckUW]

Inquiring minds want to know ...

A sprig of parsely on a steaming turd

[david_craig]

Am I becoming excessively cynical for thinking that SP1 for Vista was rushed out the door for marketing reasons?

It's common for people to wait for the first service pack before moving to a new software platform (not just Microsoft's), and I've seen in their marketing they've been attempting to address the "myth" (http://www.microsoft.com/australia/vistafacts/fact.aspx [microsoft.com]) that Vista won't be ready until SP1.

I'm predicting that SP1 will just be a bunch of already released hotfixes bundled together and won't do much to cover up the stench of excrement the product exudes.



I'm sorry that this is slightly flamebait, but I don't like Microsoft's products that much and I'm still bitter that my employer forced me to install Vista on my work laptop.

Re:I'm tired of the euphemisms

[jo42]

I have come to the conclusion that language such as this, that of advertising, marketing, that of middle- and upper-management and politics is simply the language of the uber incompetent. In other words - make it sound important and significant to make it look like they know what they are talking about even when they don't have a frickin clue.

Now can we all please just shut up about it?

[fahrvergnugen]

I'm no Microsoft apologist, but I do think the unbridled hate that pervades /.'s reaction to every single Vista article is a bit out of hand. Maybe this will help stem the tide of Vista-bashing. Sure, Vista kinda sucks, but all Windows versions kinda suck. I think most people who are ripping on Vista for being the operating system anti-christ are forgetting how badly XP sucked pre-SP1, and even pre-SP2. 7 years ago, the chorus of "OH MY GOD XP IS SO MUCH WORSE THAN 2000! THERE'S NO NEED TO UPGRADE!" in every XP article's comments were eerily similar to the ones you hear now every time Vista gets a mention.

Vista's maturing, and as it does it'll become a better operating system, and everyone will benefit, even if they don't use Vista. Microsoft still competes largely on the basis of being a de facto standard. Vista's release has caused them to lose this edge somewhat, and the window has opened for their competition, who compete mostly on features, to get a little lazy (Leopard, anyone?). Microsoft competing more vigorously on their stale plank, assuming they don't magically find traction they've been unable to find for years, can't do anything but help the products on the market.

Okay, now it's time to cue the million responses calling me a Microsoft shill. Suggested topics: "There really was no reason to upgrade from 2k to XP, I still use 2k just fine," "Vista is beyond repair because of DRM," and "Vista is way more broken than Leopard, how dare you rip on OS X."

Re:Question for dev team

[blind biker]

Excellent question. And the answer is: because otherwise your users won't know what a great thing they got - they wouldn't notice a damn thing at all. But if it's all nicely wrapped in bells, whistles and shiny ribbons with bright letters reading "Vista SP1", then they will have that warm and fuzzy feeling of having something new, valuable, BETTER.

3 different programs for analyzing crashes?

[InadequateCamel]

"The information we collect thanks to tools like the Customer Experience Improvement Program, Online Crash Analysis, and Windows Error Reporting..."

For a company so adept at spinning information into pro-MS propaganda (much like any big company, mind you), you would think that they would do a better job of obfuscating the fact that they have at least 3 different channels for collecting program crash information!

Re:Now can we all please just shut up about it?

[dreamchaser]

As I've stated many times in many places, I'm largely OS agnostic. I have Solaris, Linux, Mac OSX, Windows 2000, Windows XP, and Windows Vista at my disposal. I'm fairly happy with Vista so far. Despite the hate and FUD you see here it works fairly well, and the initial problems with drivers have been largely sorted out. It really is in many ways a replay of when XP shipped. The difference is that now there are real alternatives and the competition is a bit more.

Re:Removed the DRM?

[corsec67]

In what way is DRM good?
All DRM tries to do is prevent the user from doing stuff, but can't possibly be successful due to the analog hole [wikipedia.org].

Re:Now can we all please just shut up about it?

[jase001]

This IS why people did not get XP before sp1. The product wasn't good enough at the time. MS is kind of admitting that Vista isn't what they hope, because MS where discussing Windows 7 (or what every they will call it) so early after the Vista release. Vista still seems like a Windows ME to a lot of people. May be future service packs will reverse the view? However all this back tracking on MS's part leaves them open to the competition.

Re:It's out.

[growse]

WTF? That's something *completely different*.

Re:3 different programs for analyzing crashes?

[westlake]

you would think that they would do a better job of obfuscating the fact that they have at least 3 different channels for collecting program crash information!

Online Crash Analysis takes you to the crash analysis site on reboot - and a plain English explanation of the problem and any known fixes. It is one reason why the BSOD jokes on Slashdot have gone stale.

Re:Now can we all please just shut up about it?

[jollyreaper]

Vista's maturing, and as it does it'll become a better operating system, and everyone will benefit, even if they don't use Vista. Microsoft still competes largely on the basis of being a de facto standard. Vista's release has caused them to lose this edge somewhat, and the window has opened for their competition, who compete mostly on features, to get a little lazy (Leopard, anyone?). Microsoft competing more vigorously on their stale plank, assuming they don't magically find traction they've been unable to find for years, can't do anything but help the products on the market.

I can accept birthing pains when bringing a revolutionary new product to the world. Unfortunately, I think the midwife confused the baby with the afterbirth.

I'm no software multi-billionaire but I don't really see an excuse for Vista having so many warts and rough edges, especially considering that it brings little new to the table. Microsoft has billions of dollars, they're not really beholden to anyone. If Vista really needed another year or two of polishing, why did they release early? Why couldn't they have brought a finished product to the market?

If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing right. If it's not worth doing right, it's probably a Microsoft product.

Re:I'm tired of the euphemisms

[Adambomb]

Meh, the ubuntu convention is just the hurricane naming system alliterated.

Also agreed that theres no particular purpose for such strange naming notions beyond baring ones excessive elitism to the wide world.

Re:Now can we all please just shut up about it?

[jcnnghm]

The reason vista gets harped on so much is because it's a dog. I reinstalled XP a couple of days ago, because I had finally had enough of Vista after almost three months of usage. Before I reinstalled, I had disabled UAC and Aero to increase the responsiveness. The only feature I really liked was the searchable start menu, so I installed Launchy on XP and I couldn't be happier. When I type a command in launchy, the results are instantaneous, no Vista lag. Running XP with the same applications, at idle I am using under 2% CPU and about 700MB of memory. With Vista, my CPU usage was pretty steady at 20-30% with memory usage of about 1.4GB for the same load and software.

Before I reinstalled XP, I installed Ubuntu to try to run Linux on the desktop again. After I got my video cards and monitors working, and finally got Compiz to function properly, I was quite impressed by the performance. Even with the effects enabled, the system was functional and responsive under load. I suspect this can be attributed to a properly designed kernel. Additionally, the Ubuntu people get a lot right, like the installation procedure (done from the Live CD, I browsed the internet while it installed), non-free driver installation and package management. Multiple monitor support was a total PITA to set up, but worked as I would have expected once configured. Unfortunately, Compiz doesn't work properly with xinerama so I reluctantly switched back to XP.

Vista isn't like the early days of XP at all. I switched to XP before SP1 from 2k, and while the performance was slightly lower, I thought that the additional application compatibility was worth it. In other words, where XP ran the software I was used to using on 95 and 98 better than 2k, Vista doesn't seem to run anything better than XP. Indeed, at this point I think it would be considerably easier to transition to Ubuntu than to Vista, so long as the majority of the desktop applications you use regularly are free software, and you don't have a nonstandard (more than 1 graphics card) monitor configuration.

Re:I'm tired of the euphemisms

[Miszou72]

the DRM bullcrap

Never noticed it. Doesn't affect me one iota. And hey, if I do want to watch a DRM'd movie, guess what? I can! You ire should be directed at the movie studios that wanted MS to add the DRM in the first place.

the nagware

Not sure what you're talking about here either. My Vista never nags me about anything. Perhaps you should scan your system for spyware/viruses.

the "oops someone used javascript on this website do you want to continue" click dialog under IE7 EVERY FUCKING GODDAMN PAGE

Never noticed this either, and I really don't remember ever fiddling with the internet preferences. Is there a little checkbox on the message that says "Never ask me this again"? Try checking it and see if it helps.

the stupid crap like DOS programs (yeah I still like to load up a few old games) not being allowed to go fullscreen.

Hmm, never had much issue with this either and I do play quite a few old games. You could always try installing DOS into a virtual machine. I believe that VMWare is free now, although I personally use Microsoft Virtual PC and find that it works wonderfully. Also, IIRC you can even download DR-DOS for free to install into your free VM!

In short, Vista SP1: If you put whipped cream on a turd, it's still a fucking goddamn turd.

In short, STFU and get a clue.

Re:3 different programs for analyzing crashes?

[Guspaz]

They're three distinct things, and Vista dropped OCA.

WER handles the reporting of the errors (formerly called Dr. Watson)
OCA handles the analysis of the reports, and informs the user of the results (Vista integrated this into the WER interface)
CEIP reports usability data from certain applications, such as Windows Live Messenger, and doesn't collect program crash info.

You talk about "pro-MS" propaganda, but you're the one desperately searching for things to shit on.

no euphemism.. an Experience.

[boombaard]

it's not about euphemisms.. it's about marketing, and it's not so '90s either.. it's still alive, even if you might be critical of the use of it.
watch http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/view/ [pbs.org] for a fairly interesting docu PBS did on it (warning: the fact that the people that are being interviewed take their jobs seriously is unnerving as well as a partial explanation of why and how they can keep coming up with stuff like it.)

Re:Now can we all please just shut up about it?

[brre]

Those of us who have used dozens of operating systems over the course of decades are underwhelmed when a commercial shipping OS in 2008 is given the supposed praise of "it's maturing!"

That's appropriate praise for an experimental operating system that a few grad students have been hacking on for the last year or so.

What would it say about Toyota if its fans were reduced to saying things like "that new Camry runs pretty good now!"

Re:Performance.

[Miszou72]

Let's say you're copying some files. The actual copying isn't that bad, but waiting for the copy window to appear might take a full minute. Starting an application is my cue to sit back and maybe make myself a drink.

If what you say is true, then there is something seriously wrong with your hardware. My dual-core laptop (2.0ghz, 2x100Gb SATA, 7600GT GO, 2GB RAM) doesn't have any of those problems. I installed Vista from the official Microsoft disc and pretty much left everything to the defaults, and I have no problems whatsoever. You're either grandstanding, your hardware is broken or you haven't been quite as careful as you think when installing drivers...

Re:50% Faster?

[dave562]

I'm reminded of installing the OSX 10.5 upgrade on my MacBook. The first time estimate told me that there were over four hours remaining on the install. At about twenty-five percent complete that estimate was down to two hours. I'd think that given that we are now in 2008, the fact that time estimates on CPU intensive tasks are always wrong should be codified into the geek knowledgebase at this point.

Re:Now can we all please just shut up about it?

[oogoliegoogolie]

Did you ever consider the reason so many people have such negative opinions about Vista is because they have a valid reason? These "Vista sucks" statements are hardly unique to the Slashdot crowd, and websites and publications from all areas of technology have told users to stay away from Vista-that didn't happen to XP. It's not so much that Vista sucks, but rather people don't like vista because it is difficult to find something of value in Vista that you don't already find in XP. Vista adds little, but takes a lot away.

XP was originally bashed for it's horrible color schemes. Vista is bashed because it has across the board decrease in performance. Game framerates are ~10-20% slower, file operations can be ridiculously slower, the system takes longer to boot compared to XP, vista can take as long to come out of sleep as it takes to boot up, and the worthless and annoying UAC, which is a poor copy of what is done so much better and with more logic on Kubuntu or OSX.

I tried Vista for 6 weeks, found that it didn't offer anything much better than what was in XP, was frustrated with it's performance hit, so I got rid of it. I don't think it is terribly horrible OS, but really, what does it offer?

Ok, so here is a question for Vista fans: What do you find good in Vista, and what do you like about Vista? I'm not trolling, but I never found anything of value in it, so I am just curious what is in Vista that you like better than in XP?

Re:Now can we all please just shut up about it?

[ma1wrbu5tr]

No, I can't and won't shut up about it.

Every time Microsoft releases a "Service Pack", tech support employess
from almost every software and hardware vendor in the industry die a little
inside. For they know the coming days could hold many problematic calls
they can do anothing about. Because it was a Windows patch that broke
whatever it is the poor tech support guy supports.

This is especially prevalent with calls to anti-virus companies from people
who think they are infected, or who have completely hosed computers and
want someone to blame. I cannot count how many times I have heard, "but it
was an update from Microsoft, how could it have done this?"..."No, it must be a virus".
At which point, I just direct them to the MSKB article that describes their exact
symptoms and how, if possible, to fix it.

IT was the same way when I worked in support at a medical facility. Users would complain that
they couldn'y use some of their fonts. And that their computer must be broken. These are just two of MANY examples of how MS's crappy update system is a giant headache for sysadmins, support techies, and users everywhere.

Hey MS, how about opening some of that code so we can look at it and decide if it's going to break our computers before you call it critical, and force it onto everyone's PC.

RAnt OVer

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:50% Faster?

[SilentOneNCW]

Actually, that would be if it's 100% faster. 50% faster means it'll only take 98.25 years.

Re:I'm tired of the euphemisms

[webmaster404]

This is pure misdirection and nothing else. If Joe Customer buys a Hi-Def movie and windows can't play it, he's going to point straight at Microsoft with the finger of blame - even though the fault lies with the manufacturer of the disc. By including DRM to allow these movies to be played, Windows can trivially become a home entertainment center. You can even use it to play your non-DRM'd media! How about that!

And that would be different then XP not playing DVDs normally how? Playing HD content should not require DRM and if MS had opposed I am sure that it would be dropped or downplayed in the way CSS was. Including DRM is a huge flaw when it is embedded in the OS because it adds an extra layer of failure much as WGA does. In an OS that is to be used by governments as well as the home user, adding DRM adds numerous flaws that can be security risks. http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,135814-c,windowsbugs/article.html [pcworld.com] not to mention that different hardware changes can cause WGA or DRM failures. Remember the Sony Rootkit? That is more or less the level of insecurity you get when you build an OS around DRM because DRM by nature must be secret and closed. If MS really wants to be evil and include DRM the least they could do is embed it in an application rather then the entire OS (IE: having Windows Explorer not being able to copy DRMed files and WMP not being able to play them) it would be more secure and the OS might not break (as much). As for Vista being a media center, I really don't see how that works, when you have to pay $700+ for a computer that runs Vista and it isn't as sluggish along with silent that's a large amount of money for a computer when you can get a $300 rig for XP/Linux to do the exact same thing, not to mention due to DRM you need a better video card to play "protected content". XP or Linux can do the same job with less resources and with Linux can be controlled remotely (XP/Vista probably can too with an addon). The only thing about Linux is having to installed "restricted" packages which if you choose your distro carefully, many of them can already be enabled with the company paying for them all for a price cheaper then XP. As for the DOS problem, if you can just not run them in full-screen I don't see how security comes into play with this, that would be a reason if they wouldn't play but just not enabling full screen, that's just a flaw.

Re:I'm tired of the euphemisms

[NormalVisual]

If Joe Customer buys a Hi-Def movie and windows can't play it, he's going to point straight at Microsoft with the finger of blame - even though the fault lies with the manufacturer of the disc.

Simple fix - MS puts up a dialog box that says, "The manufacturer of this disk has denied permission for this disk to be played on your system. Please contact the disk's manufacturer for more information." and points the finger of responsibility for this crap right back at the studios. MS is already taking heat for the new DRM as it is - I for one won't be running Vista as long as it has that infernal DRM functionality on it, and I certainly am not the only one. It's the operating system's job to manage and abstract the hardware for use by the programs the user chooses to run on the system, not pass moral judgement on said user or his system on behalf of some other business entity. I refuse to accommodate one that does. Besides, upgrading from XP to Vista would require me to shell out several hundred dollars in unnecessary hardware just to be able watch HD content in its native resolution on my current system, on top of the purchase price of the OS itself. No thanks.

Re:I'm tired of the euphemisms

[Nullav]

DRM results in far more then a lack of freedom

Only when used to lock down media. Allowing one to read locked down media...not so much.

it results in higher hardware requirements which boost the requirements even more then it already needs to be and I am sure that you have noticed it, not just in not being able to copy but in slower performance and higher hardware costs.

After installing Vista on an old crapbox, I have to respond with a nice, loud 'bullshiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit'. RAM whorery isn't really an issue (except for that damn sidebar). Really, just *cough* 'borrow Vista from the Internet' and and give it 512MB of RAM, a 2.0GHz P4 and some shitty onboard video - like XP. After disabling the sidebar and a few useless services, it's back to using ~150MB...idle. It's not ideal, but considering how cheap a gig is now, it's hardly the disaster you're making it out to be.

The only slow parts so far have been installing it (the better part of an hour) and using the archive manager packaged with it (It would estimate the remaining time for extracting a 200MB archive to be several hours. Installing 7-zip got around that.)

Re:I'm tired of the euphemisms

[mqduck]

How old is DOS now? If Vista was 100% compatible with all DOS applications all the way back 20 years ago, you would be banging on it for holding on to an insecure, legacy architecture!

If you don't have a defense, imagine a different charge, huh?

Re:Removed the DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, can anyone REALLY be this clueless? DRM is there so you can watch your stuff at full resolution? What's next - war is peace? Freedom is slavery? Ignorance is strength?

You've either swallowed the line bait, hook and sinker, or you're an astroturfer. I'm going to apply Hanlon's razor and go with the former, assuming stupidity rather than malice, but still... sheesh. Lay of the crack, man, it's not good for your brain.