Loophole in Windows Random Number Generator 305
Invisible Pink Unicorn writes "A security loophole in the pseudo-random number generator used by Windows was recently detailed in a paper presented by researchers at the University of Haifa. The team found a way to decipher how the number generator works, and thus compute previous and future encryption keys used by the computer, and eavesdrop on private communication. Their conclusion is that Microsoft needs to improve the way it encodes information. They recommend that Microsoft publish the code of their random number generators as well as of other elements of the Windows security system to enable computer security experts outside Microsoft to evaluate their effectiveness. Although they only checked Windows 2000, they assume that XP and Vista use similar random number generators and may also be vulnerable. The full text of the paper is available in PDF format."
Yer killin' me (Score:1, Insightful)
snort. please. stop.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
No. Really. It hurts.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA goomph.
Re:Hardware RNG (Score:5, Insightful)
Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe it's just me, but I didn't think anyone would be stupid enough to use rand for SSL like the article is implying.
From what I can see, this is an old article anyway.
Fixed in Vista? (Score:5, Insightful)
Publication iffy (Score:4, Insightful)
If both of these did not happen, especially if (b) didn't happen, what you would be doing is exposing all non-upgrading users to the full brunt of whatever flaws their might be. Would this really be productive? Does this remind you of various failures in Linux code that led to rootkits being developed for it. Did the victims of such attacks think it was all for the best because they didn't upgrade in a timely manner?
Yes, relying on people not reverse-engineering code to protect users isn't a great plan. But the current situation - as regrettable as it is - is this is the only plan. There are no fallbacks, there are no alternatives. Most of the running copies of Windows aren't going to be "fixed" in any way whatsoever.
Re:Hardware RNG (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hardware RNG (Score:4, Insightful)
the number of affected users enbiggens the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hardware RNG (Score:5, Insightful)
You could probably even slip a little bias in there without being called a troll with:
Of course, it would be a little silly to assume that this does not affect at least XP, as 2000 was still under maintenance when XP was released, so if the bug was found during the development of XP, it should have been fixed in 2000. It would look far worse for Microsoft if they KNEW about a security hole in 2000 while it was still under maintanace, and did not bother to back port the fix from XP.
Re:Fixed in Vista? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hardware RNG (Score:3, Insightful)
Dates below 70 are considered in the year 2000, over 70 are considered in the 1900s.
Excel also has some stupid bugs to do with dates, which microsoft are now trying to enshrine in the ooxml format.
Might not extend past W2K (Score:3, Insightful)
1) This does not affect current versions of Windows.
2) This only affects exported versions of Windows. (The PRNG may still be there but may not be default.)
The RC4 implementation screams of a bit-size issue. It also goes to reason since they are in a non-US country. Furthermore, I doubt this affects current versions based on the information available. If you want, go throw the CMVP RNG validation list [nist.gov] and find the Microsoft certificates. All of the RNGs that are approved do not use RC4.
I believe there is a lot of hot-air and presumption and in the paper. They published findings and ASSUMED that nothing has been changed with relation to the PRNG. The algorithm certificates shown above clearly shows this is not the case. Furthermore, they do not state which cryptographic provider is used to perform the generation. I believe this PRNG might be from DSS_BASE, which has since been deprecated. This would mean the problem does not exist. They also ask for Microsoft's code, yet I see none of their own. Without their code, how can their paper be reasonably verified.
I say show me some more, before you cry that this is the way all PRNGs since W2K have been implemented.
Re:Hardware RNG (Score:5, Insightful)
Tin foil hat: "Reflections on Trusting Trust" (Score:3, Insightful)
I honestly have 100% no doubts that "Microsoft" is purposely installing multitudes of access methodologies in the form of bugs with "plausible deniability" for U.S. security officials. The telco's do it, they've been caught and are now asking for immunity. Now whether or not is is actually "Microsoft," or people working within the company secretly for the various security agencies purposely inserting these nearly impossible to find bugs is a different question.
Call me paranoid, but if I told you there was a secret room through which all internet traffic gets directed in all the major internet NOCs, you'd call that paranoid as well.
Re:Tin foil hat: "Reflections on Trusting Trust" (Score:3, Insightful)
The Common Criteria evaluators have essentially full access to the Windows source code and all supporting documentation. They look for issues that would enable backdoors or security vulnerabilities. Once and a while, they find something interesting. Microsoft then fixes it as a security bug.
Windows platforms are used by numerous nations for secret information that they want to keep secret from the US. They wouldn't be using the platforms without some reasonable level of assurance concerning the code base.
If there were convenient backdoors in Windows, governments wouldn't need to conduct bag jobs to insert hardware loggers or use malware to capture suspect's actions.
My conclusion is that there are vulnerabilites in the Windows codebase, as shown by the MSRC process, but these are not intentional and they are fixed as they are discovered.
Re:Tin foil hat: "Reflections on Trusting Trust" (Score:3, Insightful)
I have never heard anything other than, "It could be, if you knew...."
The Common Criteria evaluators have essentially full access to the Windows source code and all supporting documentation. They look for issues that would enable backdoors or security vulnerabilities. Once and a while, they find something interesting. Microsoft then fixes it as a security bug.
Funny how people who are not "Common Criteria evaluators" find a lot more stuff.
Windows platforms are used by numerous nations for secret information that they want to keep secret from the US. They wouldn't be using the platforms without some reasonable level of assurance concerning the code base.
And many of these nations are SERIOUSLY reconsidering their Windows use.
If there were convenient backdoors in Windows, governments wouldn't need to conduct bag jobs to insert hardware loggers or use malware to capture suspect's actions.
Assuming that third party utilities does screwup the intentional holes, that some people use other platforms, like Linux or bsd.
My conclusion is that there are vulnerabilites in the Windows codebase, as shown by the MSRC process, but these are not intentional and they are fixed as they are discovered.
Believe what you will, but I disagree. Maybe I am paranoid, but when your suspicions get confirmed, is it paranoia or good common sense?
Re:So... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I can't believe this is an issue... (Score:1, Insightful)
NEW CROSS SITE SCRIPTING ATTACK IN :
step 1: gain control over the server through a buffer overflow or some other method
step 2: insert a cross-site scripting attack
step 3: profit!
NEW SSL VULNERABILITY:
step 1: gain control of the client process after the user input credentials
step 2: connect using SSL / use existing SSL connection
step 3: profit!
I wonder if this was actually published in a peer-reviewed journal. If it was, it makes me very sad to see the state of published research today.
Why should MS crypto programmers be aware? (Score:3, Insightful)
Now I don't know what the crypto folk are like, but I have yet to see any real evidence to suggest that they'd be any better.