Trouble With MS Genuine Office Validation

Julie188 writes "Here's another little gotcha with Microsoft license validation, discovered by security and PowerShell expert Tyson Kopczynski. The Microsoft Office 2007 add-on site refuses to download legitimate add-ons for Office 2007 when a legitimate — but not yet activated — additional Microsoft product is installed on the computer. In Kopczynski's case, the product was Visio. He writes: 'Let's back this license train up and look at why this picture is wrong: 1. I have a valid copy of Office 2007. 2. The Visio installation only failed the validation because I haven't activated it. 3. Microsoft has presented me with a page to buy Office, which I have a valid copy of... Dear Microsoft, When used incorrectly and in direct conflict of something that you are promoting, DRM sucks! By making the usage of your software a hassle, you risk further pushing more users of your applications to other solutions."

What's the issue exactly?

[spyrochaete]

Forgive my ignorance but I don't really understand the problem here. Why not just activate Office? You can do it over the internet or by a toll free phone call. You can only open Office apps so many times before you must activate it, so why delay?

Wrong mantra.

[Jeff DeMaagd]

"When used incorrectly and in direct conflict of something that you are promoting, DRM sucks!"

That's too long. DRM sucks period.

DRM

[franksands]

Dear Microsoft, When used incorrectly and in direct conflict of something that you are promoting, DRM sucks! By making the usage of your software a hassle, you risk further pushing more users of your applications to other solutions.

I would say that DRM sucks always. But this is beyond DRM, this is the blue monster [microsoft-watch.com] taking over your computer. I am always amazed at how MS knows what's best for you.

Yeah that doesn't seem right

[Sciros]

So updates to Office fail because a newly added product (Visio) isn't yet activated... seems to me that in this case the only update failure that would be understandable is one related to the added product (Visio). Other activated pieces of software should be able to receive updates without problems. Furthermore, if Visio fails validation and the response from Microsoft is to send the user to a page that suggest he purchase Office then that is just plain incorrect. It should send him to a page that says "activate Visio, dude!"

So, yeah, this isn't really Microsoft bashing. Though it maybe should be worded a bit more clearly so the problem is made apparent.

Re:What's the issue exactly?

[Midnight Thunder]

Then I tried to get the export-to-PDF add-in from the Microsoft site but it proclaimed that only one copy of Office on my computer was validated so I couldn't update the other. Net result -- un-install one; un-install the other; re-install Office Standard; back in business.

What a stupid pain.

You need to realise that Microsoft is trained in the school of 'being so smart that its stupid'. Basically they have some good developers with great ideas, but they fail to think them through and ends up making something that so complicated, that a Linux kernel recompile ends up being simpler.

Re:I'm Shocked.

[Distan]

Read the article again.

He has an activated copy of Office 2007.

He has an unactivated copy of Visio. He doesn't say why, maybe he is evaluating it.

Because he has an unactivated copy of Visio, he is unable to upgrade his activated copy of Office 2007.

I would say he has a problem. His unactivated copy of Visio shouldn't screw up the functionality of his activated software, but it is.

Ah yes....

[bwd234]

...one of the main reasons I still use use Windows 2000! No DRM, no activation headaches, no secret file updates, no useless eye-candy, most stable MS OS ever... oh, the list just goes on....

Re:I'm Shocked.

[kimvette]

Presuming you HAVE RTFA (it's obvious you haven't)

What about temporary installations? MSDN users are advised NOT to activate if they plan to reinstall the system within a couple of months. How does one download the latest updates to set up a proper test environment on a non-activated system?

Microsoft is abusing their monopoly position and actually INCREASING value of "pirated" copies of their software.

Simple answer.

[LWATCDR]

1. Ask for you money back for Office and Viso.
2. Stop using software that pulls this crap.
Yes office compatibility is extremely useful but that usefulness is what gives Microsoft the power to pull crap like this.
Just doing number one will probably solve the problem. Chew up the support lines and they will eventually fix the problem for you.

Typical Microsoft behavior

[pembo13]

Call them when you've bought a few hundred copies, you'll be more important then.

Re:What's the issue exactly?

[RonnyJ]

It's not as if this is something that can't be easily fixed though. There are certainly many legitimate complaints about activation, but I'm sure he knew he still needed to activate Visio at some point (he has Office activated, after all).

Well, the Visio license is valid, I just haven't activated it. I'm just too lazy to complete the wizard, I guess.

Not too lazy to write an article about it though.

Re:Wrong mantra.

[xeus4200]

You know, that's rather ignorant. There are people out there that work hard to create content that will enrich other people's lives. Sometimes those people do it so much (aka job) they have to rely on income in order to eat and live. Why shouldn't those people have the right not to have that content stolen? Why is it that so many people think that because something is in a digital format that it cannot be "real" property? Information is still something to be protected. So I think saying "DRM sucks" is a popular catchphrase but it is unreasonable to think everything in this life should be free.

Re:What's the issue exactly?

[jedidiah]

NO. Don't get over it.

Office validation should be concerned about office & not anything else. It shouldn't
be SPYING on anything else. That sort of stupidity leads directly to these sorts of
unintended consequences.

I should not need to "activate" one program to get support for another.

Re:What's the issue exactly?

[Qzukk]

, get over it, and STFU already. I still don't see the issue.

Why is visio's non-activation trying to get the user to buy a second copy of Office? How is the average user supposed to figure out that when they try to update office and Microsoft tells them they can't update office until they buy office, that the problem is actually somewhere else?

Re:What's the issue exactly?

[Deagol]

Even if the phone call gets redirected to deepest India, they will still help you out - as I found out when I had to revalidate my Windows install for the fourth time, due to hardware issues.

Don't you see something inherently wrong with that? Not to be snide, but why would you continue to put up with such problems?

Re:Wrong mantra.

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I understand, but I didn't say everything should be free. I didn't say that copyright infringement is good. I'm sorry to say that DRM is not a good solution. When it works, it's a nuisance even to legit users, when it doesn't work people that paid for the right to use a work can't use it.

The ignorance is on the side of the perpetrators of DRM because it generally only annoys legitimate users. People that are going to get something "free" will be getting cracked versions that don't have DRM, in short, the people that DRM affects are generally the customers, and the effect is usually one of annoyance.

I don't pretend to have a solution, but poorly implemented DRM only serves to make the point. A person that stays legal shouldn't have to lose a day's productivty because the WGA server is down or the internet service is down so software can't be validated.

Misuse of acronym "DRM"

[dekkerdreyer]

This is getting out of hand. Microsoft's licensing and copy protection issues are not "DRM" issues. It's licensing issues. Licensing issues are an entirely different class of problems which have been around for decades. Don't start throwing anything you don't like with computers into your definition of "DRM". It's true that, once again, pirating software (on the high seas) eliminates both DRM and licensing issues, but it also eliminates problems like excessive cost. You wouldn't throw excessive cost into the definition of DRM, even though you know that the software went up in price merely because they had to pay to sub-license the copy protection software.

We'll ignore the argument that piracy makes the software cost more. Buying someone else's copy protection software is what brings the real cost of the software up. The companies will sell it for what they can sell it for. That's price, and with a complete lack of supply and demand balances, is always grossly overpriced.

But back to the DRM term misuse. This is similar to a story I heard the other day. A co-worker was telling me that her "identity was stolen" because she called a loan company and they couldn't find any record of having a loan with them. A computer glitch at a random company is not "identity theft" and confusing the two makes it seem like a non-issue. She called back a few days later and they found her record. I guess that means her identity was "recovered" and returned to her as property should be.

"My email was hacked!!!"
"Wow, what happened?"
"I sent a private email to a friend and he forwarded it to everyone he know."

Re:Slownewsday? FUD? Big deal, activate it already

[jtownatpunk.net]

You really can't see the BFD? He has Product A installed on his machine. He installs Product B but hasn't run it yet. He tries to update Product A. The update system says, "You need to buy a legitimate copy of Product A."

You really don't see what's wrong with that? Seriously?

1) Product A is Product A. If it's legit and has passed all validation and activation checks, it should work. It should be updated. End of story.

2) If Product B's lack of activation is an issue, any related message should state that Product B's activation is the issue. Telling him to purchase Product A (which is in no way failing validation or activation checks) is just stupid.

3) Microsoft has a history of problems with their activation and validation procedures. This is a given. If you have 5 different legitimate Microsoft products installed, activated, and validated on your system and the process breaks for one, does it make sense to bring down the whole system? Say I've got Flight Simulator installed and my system crashes while I'm playing. It gets corrupted. It no longer passes validation checks. Should I be locked out of Vista, Office, Visio, and Money updates? Should I have to worry about Vista going into "reduced functionality" mode?

That's the BFD.

Shrug.

[SatanicPuppy]

I like pc games. I like to play them; it's one of my best sources of stress relief. I've got way too much experience with WINE and I can make most games run in WINE...Eventually. But screw that! I don't want to buy a game then spend hours tweaking things to get it to run; I do enough of that crap at work. I want to just play it.

I occasionally have to use Access and MSSQL Server. I occasionally have to use Visual Studio. It's not even always about corporate; if someone has a screwed up database, or a .Net site, and they want to pay me to fix it, I'm not above taking their money just because I don't like using those products, and I'm not going to limit myself by telling people, "Oh, I'm sorry. While I'm capable of doing this work, I refuse to do so because I'd prefer you were using OSS."

I ended up out of work for a good while during the Dot Bomb, and OSS made it possible for me to make a nice living, but I sure as hell didn't turn down Microsoft work when my customers asked me for it. Why send them to someone else when I can do the work? And you can make some good converts that way; I hooked a lot of people on Samba.

It's not about right and wrong, or good and evil. It's about tools, and giving people what they need to do their jobs. Don't cripple yourself by deciding that you're only going to deal with the tools you like.

Re:What's the issue exactly?

[thomas.galvin]

Does anyone actually believe this is anything really intentional? I know it's Microsoft we're talking about, but it seriously just sounds like a bug in their activation/authentication system (Microsoft products have bugs sometimes, right?). If it was actually working as intended, it'd at least prompt him to purchase Visio instead of Office. This guy can't be the only guy who's tried to do this. File a bug report and try back tomorrow.

That's the problem, really. MS added some useless activation code that does nothing to stop pirates, but gets in the way of legitimate users. And, on top of that, it gets in the way of legitimate users in ways that MS didn't even intend. Its broken from the ground up.

When you pay several hundred dollars for a piece of software, you have a right to expect it to actually work. For that matter, when you buy any piece of software, you have a right to expect to be able to pop the disk in your computer and use it.

Re:Watch out Mickeysoft

[digitig]

And OO.o doesn't really have an equivalent to Visio, either. OO.o Draw is a nice app, but it doesn't do the same job as Visio. The original article's "useopenoffice" tag isn't really a solution.

Come to that, even with compatible functionality, rivals are still up against MS Office's installed user base. As long as my customers require me to use MS Office templates that don't work in OO.o (not least because they use macros), MS Office is staying on my computer. I've yet to have a customer ask me to work to an OO.o template (although I'm ready if they do).

Re:I'm Shocked.

[Mr. Underbridge]

If you look at MS's site, you'll find that Visio is considered an Office product. So, to clarify, he activated Office, installed (but did not activate) a new part of Office, and now it won't let him install Office add-ons. This is entirely an Office issue. You may not like what they're doing, but this has no bearing on whether it will have problems with an unactivated non-Office product. If it did, I would be mightily pissed.

I wouldn't give a shit what they call it, the end result is that they've locked him out of support for a product he purchased because he has something else on his machine. That's BS. Whether they consider Visio part of office is immaterial - clearly they can be purchased separately, so they can be supported separately.

To all those who say "what's the problem..."

[dpbsmith]

"... why doesn't he activate Visio, already?"

If a doctor find blood in your stool, you shouldn't say "what's the problem? It's a trivial amount of blood."

The loss of blood is not serious. What is serious is what the loss of blood shows: that something is wrong inside you.

Kopczynski found a bug in the activation system. This particular bug didn't affect him in a serious way this particular time. That doesn't mean it isn't a serious bug.

Re:Wrong mantra.

[langelgjm]

Why is it that so many people think that because something is in a digital format that it cannot be "real" property?

Call it property or don't, but understand that the fundamental nature of digital information is that it can be duplicated at negligible cost. Most people aren't familiar with property that behaves like that, so they are (reasonably) unwilling to call digital information property.

So I think saying "DRM sucks" is a popular catchphrase but it is unreasonable to think everything in this life should be free.

Saying DRM sucks has nothing to do with saying things should be free. I think I'd rather say that DRM is futile and misguided. It's an attempt to force constraints in a world where they don't exist.

Re:Wrong mantra.

[toleraen]

Ouch, is that you BadAnalogyGuy?

In this situation you would be the one implementing the DRM on your own house, so if your own protection locked you out every other day, that'd be your own fault. A proper analogy would be if the faulty DRM on your house kept people out of your house that you were trying to let in.

I don't think that DRM is that bad of a thing, with the massive caveat that must be properly implemented. Publicly traded corporations owe it to their investors to try and protect their assets. I agree with you though in that most DRM is implemented poorly, and ends up screwing over the legitimate end user. I do think it does prevent some level of piracy though. When was the last time you and your friends swapped software binders for the weekend?

Re:What's the issue exactly?

[legirons]

"Holy crap, someone found a bug in a Microsoft product! Stop the presses!"

No, they found a bug in some software that isn't needed to perform any legitimate function of the product, but was added-on by Microsoft to spy on their customers. That's the worst kind of bug, because if they hadn't been so paranoid it needn't have happened

I'll say it again: this entire class of bugs is nonexistant in Free Software, mainly because the person writing the software isn't trying to deliberately break your computer.

Bugs may be a fact of life. But licensing-related bugs are inexcusable.