Big Brother Really Is Watching Us All 405
siddesu writes "The BBC has a nice high-level overview of some technologies for surveillance developed in the US and the UK. 'The US and UK governments are developing increasingly sophisticated gadgets to keep individuals under their surveillance. When it comes to technology, the US is determined to stay ahead of the game ... But it [a through-the wall sensing device in development] will also show whether someone inside a house is looking to harm you, because if they are, their heart rate will be raised. And 10 years from now, the technology will be much smarter. We'll scan a person with one of these things and tell what they're actually thinking.'"
Ineffective (Score:4, Insightful)
Just like the polygraph (Score:4, Insightful)
I call crap on this. We will be able to detect biometric data. We will not be able to tell "what you're thinking."
Re:Ineffective (Score:5, Insightful)
And you actually thought it was aimed at terrorism?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!
It's just an excuse. Re:Heart Rate Raised? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd rather the government not base their decision on whether to come in guns blazing on something as ridiculous as whether my heart rate is increased...
They will base the decision on your political expression and activism, the other things will simply justify your murder. The elevated heart rate will come when they ask you if you and your children would like some pancakes [rotten.com]. The report will say that they had reason to believe you were armed and dangerous.
Unless the US returns to rule of law, tools used to track individuals will be used to identify, harass, intimidate, disrupt and eliminate opposition. Domestic spying is against the law. Unreasonable search violates the Constitution. It is completely unreasonable for government or industry to keep tables of "gait DNA" and other metrics for people who have not committed crimes. The purpose for this kind of thing is a crime in itself.
ubiquitous surveillance ... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's a scary thought at first, but then I got to thinking that as the technologies behind this mature and become more powerful (as all technologies do) we will eventually reach a point where "everybody" really means "everybody"
Maybe, just maybe, ubiquitous surveillance will be the thing that saves humankind from the antisocial forces that currently plague us. When anybody can have their actions exposed on YouTube (or whatever the equivalent is in the future), people will be shamed into behaving in decent, harmonious way. It will be like some kind of techno-buddhist utopia.
But we may *think* we know what you're thinking (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm inclined to agree that we will no more be able to tell what a person is thinking than a computer can understand what they've written. That may not matter: if we think we can know what a person is thinking, then we may act on it anyway. We already are: Ohio Court Admits Lie Detector Tests As Evidence [slashdot.org].
Re:ubiquitous surveillance ... (Score:2, Insightful)
corporate executives are government servants and vice versa. just make a list of the top US politicians, and remove those who weren't corporate executives at some point in time. i doubt you'll be left with many.
politicians and top corporate folk are the same group, they just shift occupations from time to time for various reasons. and they are out to get you
Re:This reminds me of my youth in Poland. (Score:4, Insightful)
Mind you, there's still plenty to go on about nationwide, but less than 3% of us are subject to the NYC level of, ah, crackdowns.
I suppose you could make some comparison with rural Poland as well, though. Eh.
Re:This reminds me of my youth in Poland. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm considering it -- plenty of opportunities in technology and engineering since the country is developing rapidly, and I'm a citizen by parentage so I'd have no problem getting a work permit or establishing a corporation there.
BTW: I never quite understood the sentiment that if someone says that a place has some good points over the USA, they're somehow not worthy of being an American. Having a citizenry that acknowledges its country's faults makes that country a better and stronger place, since they talk about the faults and strive to correct them. Blind acceptance serves no one.
-b.
Re:Just like the polygraph (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:They can do this now, sort of. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ubiquitous surveillance ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Try this: there is no symmetry of rights in a class society. They get to watch you; watching them is a crime. FOIA compliance is already disappearing.
Re:I hope they really can read my mind.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I hope they really can read my mind.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Where do they get their numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a big difference between "don't care" and "wanting more surveillance".
I too, have met the I'm-an-idiot-so-I-have-nothing-to-hide type. However, their indifference is fueled by their trust in humanity, and the fact that for most people, getting struck by lighting is a greater risk than being falsely imprisoned by their government for political reasons. Those without any political convictions won't ever be political prisoners.
I could accept that 75% are indifferent. What is unacceptable is translating "indifference" to "wanting more surveillance". I believe it is more correct to say that the average American doesn't want to be bothered by the question of surveillance, a subtle, but important difference. It doesn't mean they want more surveillance, but that they consider the appropriate level a surveillance a question better answered by the police. If they had to personally share the cost of the cameras; if the cameras inconvenienced them in some way, they'd probably take a different view.
Meh... (Score:4, Insightful)
Soon after I do this, weavers of copper cloth will be required to report all their sales over fifty square feet to the DEA. Wearing faraday clothes will be considered evidence of guilt, like an encrypted hard drive. If you install fine-weave copper mesh in your walls, it will be used to get a warrant for a midnight raid. Y'know, like if you use too much power today.
I'm only half joking... I actually think making faraday-cage clothes would be neat just to have them.
big brother is a dead meme (Score:2, Insightful)
and yes, the reverse: little brother: citizens spying on the government, a la the rodney king beating in los angeles, over 15 years ago
but unfortunately, a meme gets head of wind: the government is spying on us all, and it gets kneejerk in its conclusion, and unquestioned
but that's not the real story here. mainly because of motive: the government has very little reason to care where you were at midnight last night. but your wife or husband does
the government also doesn't care much if you are a subway flasher. but your victim with a cell phone camera does
and so these are the real stories going on with the growth of video recording technologies and other intrusive electronic surveillance
but the big brother meme will not die, driven by paranoid fantasies a la b-grade hollywood movie plots
folks: the government doesn't care that much about you. but YOUR NEIGHBOR, YOUR WIFE, YOUR BOYFRIEND: THEY DO
THAT'S the real story: how new intrusive technologies empowers THESE people, not the government... AND the real story is about how these technologies embolden citizens to fight the government too!
enough with orwell, 1984, and big brother. in its time, it was a powerful story. nowadays, it has lost it's analytical strength about the state of the world
a lot of you are forming your concerns with a fable written by a guy who was mostly concerned with dealing with nazi era and cold war era governmental issues. that era is over. you all need a new meme. the big brother meme is dead. it has no more real thematic power in the state of the world as it is today. a lot of your are living in brains that work in the cold war era in terms of analyzing realistic fears, listing valid concerns, and forming a useful agenda. and you are failing it
enough with big brother. that meme is dead. everyone turn your attention to little brother. a new list of concerns for you to contemplate. a new reality. god bless george orwell. a great writer. i loved animal farm. but with the passing of communism's grip on the world, so has the era of orwell, so has passed the validity of the facts about the world he lived in that formed the power of his stories
welcome to the 21st century folks. please update your world view. it is outdated
Re:Ineffective (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ineffective (Score:5, Insightful)
Its only untrained schmucks like us out here in the "regular Joe Bloggs world" that start pushing lots of red stuff through our hearts when we're about to do something we're not accustomed to (on slashdot, that is equal possibilities, sex or killing... j/k). I'm pretty sure most of us slashdotters have only killed things in videogames and with a fly swatter.
I can guarantee there isn't one among us who would have the ability or training to remain calm while the ninja masked, body armored thug squad is romping through the house, searching for us with the heartbeat monitor... If you can maintain your cool while that is happening, then you should be operating your own assassin for hire business and stop posting on slashdot... you're wasting your time here
As for the rest of us... take deep breaths folks... we've already given them so much leeway to use when they screw us, why stop now?
Re:This reminds me of my youth in Poland. (Score:2, Insightful)
Poland had that World War II thing. Invaded by Germany. Over one million people killed, including all of the jews and most of the country's intellectual class. Follow that by almost 50 years of stalinist profession. 9/11, to Poland, is just Americans being pussies.
Re:Just like the polygraph (Score:4, Insightful)
1) MRI is really hard to do. You can't just throw everyone into one, especially not at airports. It just takes one person forgetting to take off their metal bracers and you have one hell of a mess.
2) FMRI is really hard to do, and still not fine-grained enough to detect any of this.
3) Annoyance is not uncontrolled violence.
4) Last I checked, there's no 'anger' center of the brain, so much as there as section of the brain that controls affect - the prefrontal cortex [wikipedia.org] may have some control over emotional reactions and social setting, but that's part of a greater notion of executive function.
5) Even if you had a way to measure annoyance, I think you'll find that anyone who's being held up at customs after a 20 hour flight so they can watch a video from inside a bizarre machine will be registering pretty highly on the annoy-o-meter no matter what you show them.
6) If you think that terrorists are thinking along the same political lines as we are, only somewhat more to the left, then you're seriously misguided and need to stop watching Fox. (You think that Muslim fundamentalists won't be annoyed by gay rights videos?)
7) If you think a right wing group hasn't already started blowing shit up, then I suggest you have a good think about what terrorist attacks have happened on US soil. The worst was 9/11, and the second was?
The overall idea of the thing is flawed. If my psych major in undergrad taught me one thing (other than statistics), it's that we're extremely complex creatures, with brains that are hard to understand. Political philosophies are some of the most complex systems of abstract thought that we come up with. Deducing them when the opponent is trying to give a different impression is going require something far in advance of the sort of tech we have now.
Plenty of Countries to Choose From (Score:2, Insightful)
For a long while, people have immigrated here and brain-drained there own countries. It's sort of like an economy of human resources. If other countries become more attractive, then like business, people will start moving there too.
Re:Elevated Heart Rate? (Score:3, Insightful)
Through the wall ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, wait a minute. Are they "sensing" through American walls (cardboard, wood and plaster) or through European walls (bricks or concrete) ? There's quite a bit of difference here, as anyone who tried to set up a WLAN may have found out
Re:I hope they really can read my mind.... (Score:4, Insightful)
The second paragraph may be what you believe, but it does not compute. Education only has a minor influence on these matters: look no further than various forms of Mafias for well-educated, Christian or otherwise religious thugs.
Ow, my eyes are bleeding! (Score:3, Insightful)
Echelon.
AT&T [wired.com]
4,285,000 CCTV cameras in the UK" [slashdot.org]
Well, blow me, but I don't think that 4,285,000 video cameras were installed by vindictive girlfriends and envious neighbors, who you seem to suggest are the real threat. --It seems, rather, that somebody in government might have a deeply rooted obsession with keeping the populace under surveillance.
You seem to think that the term "Big Brother" is intended by those using it to refer literally and only to George Orwell's exact vision of totalitarianism. That's just silly. Dangerous governments which do not reflect, and which seek to subvert and undermine the will of the people, come in a variety of flavours, but they all operate in the same spirit. As such, "Big Brother" is a useful term to use when referring to this kind of government because everybody is already familiar with it and understands what it implies. Find another term which so aptly sums up a half million CCTV's and a secret system to evesdrop on all telephone and computer communications. To call "Big Brother" a meme is not just peculiar, but outright discordant with the reality of governments which are furiously spending enormous effort to ensure that everybody really is being watched and listened to all the time.
You suggest that the government doesn't care what Joe Average says or thinks. That's nuts. If they didn't care, why would they spend such enormous effort to shape people's beliefs and behavior? It took a lot of work to sell the Iraqi war. WMD's and Iraq's fictitious connection to 9-11, and now the 'threat' of Iran are not penny ante school election campaign posters.
Yes, Joe Average, since he has already been sold the Bush bill of goods, dosed up on anti-depressants, fattened into gluten goo by an inverted food pyramid, addicted to television and video games, and overworked and debt ridden, hardly needs to be especially worried over. But psychopaths are eternally paranoid. The craving for safety and control is an endless hunger which seek to monitor and control every possible vector of threat. This is why the UK has a camera on every corner, and why AT&T, (and heaven knows who else), is actively working with the secret services to make it possible to monitor every single person in the USA who has ever clapped one ear to a telephone receiver. Or do you still believe that the "War on Terror" is the real reason? There was a time when you wouldn't have written such drivel.
--The sad part is that this circletimessquare clown used to be an intellectual of some significance, but these days his arguments are painfully weak, his once boldly acerbic style has gone soft and he is sounding dangerously close to confusing his W's with his M's. (He certainly can't seem to find his shift key anymore.) The problem with cleaving to the dark side is that it rots your brain.
Hm. . .
Well, now shucks! I went and used lots of words and punctuation and I said I was going to try to avoid that. Terribly sorry. I guess I'll just never be a bridge-building diplomat.
-FL
Re:I hope they really can read my mind.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously- think of what some liberals might do to their kids: scan their heads for anything religious, racist, or unenvironmental (and punish them accordingly). What a nightmare.
Fits just as well, huh? Really people, grow up and realize these kinds of flaws exist across the political, social and religious spectrum.