German Police Arrest Admin of Tor Anonymity Server 428
An anonymous reader writes "In a recent blog posting, a German operator of a Tor anonymous proxy server revealed that he was arrested by German police officers at the end of July. Showing up at his house at midnight on a Sunday night, police cuffed and arrested him in front of his wife and seized his equipment. In a display of both bitter irony and incompetence, the police did not take or shut-down the Tor server responsible for the traffic they were interested in, which was located in a data center, over 500km away. In the last year, Germany has passed a draconian new anti-security research law and raided seven different data centers to seize Tor servers. While back in 2003, A German court ordered the developers of a different anonymity network to build a back-door into their system."
Typo? (Score:2, Insightful)
Securty vs Freedom (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ah Europe, progressive land of freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
Four words:
No Software Patents (yet).
Re:Securty vs Freedom (Score:3, Insightful)
Good luck to this guy. Tor is very useful in preserving our privacy. Electronic communication has been a massive free party for government and police surveillance as people have been sending their communications around in ways that are as secure as a postcard. Now people are catching on and taking their privacy back and these agencies are reacting with aggression. If they want to snoop on someone then they can go through the traditional channels and not crack down on the anonymity and privacy of all of us, which serves a vital social purpose.
A little perspective for everyone thinking that (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what doesn't happen?
He doesn't get summarily executed.
His wife doesn't get raped at gunpoint.
His child doesn't get burned in an oven.
People throw around the word fascist to describe any policy they don't like (that core observation is the heart of Godwin's law). Excepting the geographical accident that places both of them in Germany, there is NOTHING analagous between Nazism and the actions of the government in this case. If you want to convince people of the rightness of deploying a Tor network, keep a cool head and do not use any goose-stepping analogies, because they will brand you as a perspectiveless fanatic who is not to be taken seriously.
Didn't we just get a Microsoft forced upgrade?? (Score:1, Insightful)
So JAP was ordered to put a backdoor in their program and they forced an upgrade on everyone. Didn't we just get a forced secret upgrade from Microsoft?
HELLO, has anyone dissembled that upgrade?
Re:silly germany (Score:4, Insightful)
Except in those countries which offer their people no accountability or transparency from the outset, and consequently have no need to rationalize their self-serving behavior to said people. I don't presently live in one of those places, but as things are going, I will end up in one of those places by simply staying where I am. There's something very wrong going on here.
Whatever this is, it's not just the United States that is affected. A number of nations are going down this road
The excessive desire for power (is there a medical term for it? Megalomania perhaps?) needs to be something for which politicians are regularly checked (much like high-end call-girls are regularly tested for disease), with not having it a prerequisite for holding public office.
Re:Securty vs Freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
Our leaders, both in the EU and the US, paid careful attention to the lessons learned in the French Revolution, namely that as long as you keep your people well fed and entertained, you can do whatever you damn well please. In the French Revolution, the people storming the Bastille had nothing to lose. But our level of comfort is carefully maintained to keep actual violent revolt from ever happening. Even the poor in our countries have too much to lose (thanks to government programs)to risk anything angrier than waving a slogan on a posterboard sign.
Re:gestapo (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Securty vs Freedom (Score:2, Insightful)
Politicians only believe in headline grabbing nonsense like we must crack down on internet porn, without understanding what they are saying and complexities. It helps that the masses are equally as thick so don't see right through the politicians, so they can say what they like.
you make it all sound so reasonable (Score:5, Insightful)
People throw around the word fascist to describe any policy they don't like (that core observation is the heart of Godwin's law). Excepting the geographical accident that places both of them in Germany, there is NOTHING analagous between Nazism and the actions of the government in this case.
So what? Was Mussolini German?
Scare tactic. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:gestapo (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually he manipulated and rigged the elections. Thank god that sort of thing never happens today...
Re:A little perspective for everyone thinking that (Score:2, Insightful)
Except, of course, for the fact that the Nazis made something illegal that was perfectly legal in the rest of the sane world.
LK
Re:Securty vs Freedom (Score:2, Insightful)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror [wikipedia.org]
Don't sanctify it.
Re:Securty vs Freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
I gotta warn you, I know of localities where the cops break down doors. If that ever happens in your area, to your door, who are you gonna call? Or do you just plan to break out the ammo?
... nazis, gestapo (tagging beta) (Score:4, Insightful)
Had it really been the Nazi's Gestapo, he would not be posting anything in September...
Zonk et al. really need to glue a nicely printed and framed quote of the Godwin's Law [jargon.net] on their beds' footboards, to make it the first thing they see waking up...
Re:Kind of makes sense. (Score:3, Insightful)
It would be different if this was just a hosting provider who provided service in good faith that someone took advantage of, this is someone running something INTENTIONALLY untrackable.
Built into that statement is the implicit assumption that law enforcement has an inherent right to track any Internet traffic back to its source, and that any intermediate service providers have the obligation to build their systems in such a way that this tracking is possible. Essentially you are saying that no one has the right to anonymous speech.
Like any technology, however, the anonymizing power of Tor can be used for both good or evil. It can be used by whistle-blowers to expose government corruption, and it can be used by pedophiles to distribute kiddy porn. It can be used by Chinese dissidents to criticize their government, and it can be used by terrorists to disseminate instructions on manufacture of explosive devices. So the question is, do we punish those who provide the technology because it can be used for evil? Evidently the German government has decided the answer is "yes". It's hard to argue for one side or the other because I think it comes down to personal values. I value free speech including anonymous speech, but I grew up in the American culture. Thomas Paine distributed his widely influential document Common Sense anonymously and it is possible the American Revolution would have ended differently had he not done so. One does wonder if highly oppressive regimes like the Nazis would have been able to hold power so long if the citizens had easy access to anonymous speech.
I think the value of services like Tor outweigh the disadvantages, so I do hope the German policy is not emulated by other countries.
Re:A little perspective for everyone thinking that (Score:4, Insightful)
One can see in the news and on the internet these changes in Character of the United States:
* Nationalism in the United States has turned to nasty xenophobic bigotry with splash of jingoism with a patriotic veneer.
* Human Rights so important to the founders of this country have been reduced or abandoned.
* Many right of center Americans have identified Muslims as enemies of the state and immigrants as the cause of financial hardships and increased violent crime in their community.
* The US spends more money, today on its military than the rest of the world *combined*.
* The US media has changed in recent years, the is one outlet which is a blatant propaganda arm of the current administration and the others are controlled by select few very, very wealthy men.... today the news reported in the US is markedly different than the news reported in other nations (and the assessment of freedom of the press has plummeted in the last 15 years).
* The national obsession with security is also remarkable... many experts decry the stupidity and ineffectiveness of this yet nearly monthly there are reports of egregious and or silly interference of security officers.
* Religion has become a remarkably scary thing in the US. Politicians are expected to profess belief in Christianity, yet politicians of other faiths are viewed with suspicion and men who profess no beliefs are reviled. A sizable minority of Christians today believe that the United States should not be a secular national but rather a Christian nation and there are Christian Reconstructionist groups in government today furthering this goal.... it's a plank in ideology of the NeoConservative group the Project for a new American century whose members have been in power in the US for the last 7 years.
* Corporations are held above citizens in todays America. The interests of corporations are promoted within the government by a byzantine system of lobbyists and special interest groups who wield far more power than any citizen's group.
* Cronyism within the administration of George W. Bush has been significant and harmful. Do I really need to list all the incompetent people in positions of power, or can I just say "Brownie, you're doing a heckuva job".
* The elections today have significant irregularities and those people in government irresponsible for them have done little to ensure and accurate and fair count.
Now it's true that to date there are a few examples in the above list that equate to violence seen in 1940's Europe. As it is also true that United States of America does not demonstrate all the qualities of Fascist States.
However it's also true than everything on that list is worse than it was 10 to 15 years ago. So I my opinion it's time to stop objecting to the comparison.
Re:Misquoting Benjamin Franklin (Score:5, Insightful)
That said: anonymous speech is pretty darn essential. I hope we can agree that free speech is essential, and in the face of governments that happily restrict it, anonymity is a necessary tool to exercise that right without getting imprisoned or killed. And the security we would gain is temporary - if the ter'ists, pedophiles, Holocaust deniers, or pirates are using Tor, and we shut it down, they'll just switch to something else.
Re:Securty vs Freedom (Score:4, Insightful)
Hmmm
It's also quite clear that the current crop of US soldiers have never been taught anything about the Vietnam War. It's a topic that's rarely if ever mentioned in the history classes in the US school system, for which history seems to have stopped 50 or 60 years ago. What little is known by the current crop of military recruits was mostly learned from Hollywood movies. See "Rambo" for details.
It's true that military historians have studied guerilla warfare in great detail. But there seems to be little evidence that our leaders have ever looked at such studies. To see a detailed example of this, google for "Battle of Algiers". This is a thoroughly documented topic. George Bush and his crowd claim to have read the famous book about it. But looking at their actions, you'd conclude that most have only seen the movie, if that. They certainly didn't learn any of the lessons, because they're making the same mistakes that the historians describe the French government making back in the 1950s, with the same results.
History definitely does seem to be repeating itself. And it doesn't even rhyme
Re:Securty vs Freedom (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:A little MORE perspective (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Securty vs Freedom (Score:1, Insightful)
Did you take the considerable time and money to actually purchase some land or do you just own real estate?
If you just own real estate you don't own ANYTHING, as real estate is an indefinite agreement of lease.
If you just own real estate someone else actually owns "your" land and you have no claim of authority over it.
If you just own real estate and some company finds an interest in "your" land - guess what? eminent domain switcharoo - not your land - too bad for you.
Ignoring a monster might make you less stressed but it won't help you if that monster comes for you.
Re:German gov hasn't outlawed anonymity (yet) (Score:3, Insightful)
Not all crimes that, as crimes, appear to meet the criteria for this category are crimes in themselves. Consider a law against fat guys going shirtless at the beach. If the law becomes culturally integrated, people will flip out when they see a shirtless fat guy and claim to be horribly victimized - but there's no real harm caused by fat people not wearing shirts. Further, if it became culturally accepted that seeing shirtless fat guys traumatized children then there would be actual cases of children being horribly traumatized by it - simply because of the social feedback from the people around them that they are expected to act that way.
Re:German gov hasn't outlawed anonymity (yet) (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe if it happened, more fat guys would get in shape. I did it. Long story, but if a man wants to do something, nothing stops him. Same for the ladies.
On the other hand... who's the idiot who came up with the idea to teach our kids that seeing something will traumatize them? It is the fear of excelling that makes most people complacent. Afraid of blood? Take a class on first aid. Afraid of sharks? Go shark fishing. Afraid of guns? Take a rifle or pistol class. Afraid of freedom? Try it
Ill remember to avoid those groups (Score:5, Insightful)
nazis are one of the biggest lessons that have happened to mankind. if some bunch of idiots can not realize that there are places that this example should be recalled, then its not worth to waste words with them.
Re:German gov hasn't outlawed anonymity (yet) (Score:3, Insightful)
This is actually more important and basic than that. The question is this: What sort of idiot parent would *ever* let their kid be told that they should be mentally traumatized over anything? I don't care if your kid just stepped on a land mine and lost his leg - you tell him "you'll be fine" and smile at him as you apply the tourniquet. Hysteria or "omg that's so horrible" will just create mental damage on top of the physical damage.
Re:Securty vs Freedom (Score:1, Insightful)
The rights one has have changed and.. Ohhh look! The final episode of Friends is on!
Re:A little perspective for everyone thinking that (Score:4, Insightful)
Fascism is *not* summary executions, torture, rape and pillage. Fascism is an ideology which values not human beings but abstact constructs such as the state, glory, heroism, nation and whatnot.
However, fascism, since it states that the individual is nothing, tends to constantly evaporate any civil liberties still remaining and of course more and more strictly dictate what the citizenry can (or must) do. Keeping people in fear is a very efficient way to achieve the above. Now you can use all sorts of things to plant fear in people, starting from the 24/7 propaganda about the dangers of an imminent nukular ter'ist attack, through the black car with people in dark leather coats at your doorstep at 3 in the morning, to the less subtle police SWAT raids on your home, to publicly executing innocent people on the Underground, up all to the more extrame cases of child rotissery you mentioned.
Nevertheless, those are just methods from which a fascist state can choose from. Torture is not an indication of fascism; torture happens where fascism is not involved and fascism can be instated without any sort of torture. A state which marches on the way of taking away individual rights while empowering the state/corporate elite *is* fascist, whether it does summary executions on the spot or not.
Re:Securty vs Freedom (Score:3, Insightful)
People wish there were all these big conspiracies, but any Katrina victim knows that the US government is not evil, just incompetent. I know there are plenty of other governments here in the New World that are ran, to one degree or another, just as badly as the US. I would not be surprised, but I don't know for certain, that some first world European nations are also ran by incompetents.
Re:Securty vs Freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A little perspective for everyone thinking that (Score:5, Insightful)
His wife doesn't get raped at gunpoint.
His child doesn't get burned in an oven."
Mmmm....mighty fine line there what you describe.
How many times in history can we define where governments take small steps up to the above, and each time citizens proclaim it fascism?
Right now in the USA, the constitution of our country is looked upon a merely a "historical" document, nothing really practical to base a government on.
I mean, right now you have people arguing that the right to bear arms is really not needed anymore, and that it causes too many problems for example. Even arguing that the only people who should have the right to arms is the military or police.
These people honestly believe that the USA government couldn't possibly turn on its citizens, or its systems of law and justice could not either.
I point this out because the government has already marginalized most of the population in this country as both the democratic and republican parties themselves are widely known to be corrupt and simply corporate fronts to tame the populace. (i.e. as long as the population THINKS voting is making a difference and they THINK they are choosing candidates, they will not interested in what is really going on.)
Small steps to fascism do not need to be compared against its extremes. History shows us they are all the same and have the same tragic results.
Almost all of it is due to human greed, and the lust for power.
The only sure thing we can count on, is that in the end all governments, with no exceptions, crumble to dust and the tyranny they leave behind form better lessons for us to begin again.
The USA will not be any different.
-Hack
There is no permanent security (Score:4, Insightful)
Security is always, ALWAYS, temporary. You CANNOT gain permanent security. EVER. Even if you locked yourself up in a fortress, protected by 10 battalions of heavily armed private militia, that is NOT permanent security. The circumstances of your security are ALWAYS temporary. The current government is temporary. World order is temporary. Your life is temporary. Franklin underlines temporary security, because it never lasts. EVER.
Similarly, an essential liberty refers to any liberty as essential. Liberties like freedom of speech, freedom of movement, right to your life, etc are all essential. There are no liberties that are non-essential. This is by definitions of what liberty means. You lose any part of that definition, and you lose more than you ever gain through some temporary security.
* autonomy: immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority: political independence
* freedom of choice; "liberty of opinion"; "liberty of worship"; "liberty--perfect liberty--to think or feel or do just as one pleases"; "at liberty to choose whatever occupation one wishes"
* personal freedom from servitude or confinement or oppression
http://www.google.ca/search?q=define%3A+liberty&hl=en [google.ca]
These are very general freedoms and we are losing them one chip of the security hammer at a time. Yet, we will NEVER get security because true security is a state of mind. Think about it - you are never physically secure in this world.
Example. People in UK allowed CCTV cameras to be put everywhere. They lost their liberty of freedom of movement (at least anonymous movement). They "gained" their security because they thought "it will fight crime". Result is that crime rate has not decreased. But the liberty will not be restored. Citizens of UK, and London especially, lost liberty and gained nothing.
Re:gestapo (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ah Europe, progressive land of freedom (Score:4, Insightful)
What does this got do with freedom? If someone turns you in telling the police that he received bomb threats from your IP address (which happened in this case), the only thing the police can do is investigate. And that inherently involves obtaining physical evidence, in this case seizing the computers as soon as possible before the suspect (yes, a potential criminal) destroys the evidence.
Now if there had been no freedom in Germany, the man would have not been released within a few hours with explanation he is innocent.
Re:Securty vs Freedom (Score:1, Insightful)
Remeber that when you next time hear the word "innocent". Police are backed up by the gov, the gov is backed up by the people. Only kids are innocent.
We all believe that we can pass the buck of responsibility around in our elaborate and complex social and jurdical systems. We believe that somehow, when it's passed around enough it diminishes and vanishes and nobody's responsible when we all are "just doing our jobs".
You, me, them, we are all equally responsible to the kills and injustices our govs commit as the soldiers and lawyers are. Silent acceptance = pulling the trigger.
What had this to do with your comment? It is this: when they aren't on your side, they are against you. Your neighbour is your enemy. They are all your enemies. All those who aren't on your side. It isn't their fault though, people form up complex systems when all they want is live happily and secure. Then those systems are let loose when all people forming them are only doing their jobs. Those systems become runaway animals. They start bashing down doors while single individuals even inside them think somebody is still controlling them somewhere somehow.
Re:Mush, room and cloud (Score:3, Insightful)
As for the integration, while there are too many unintegrated ones, 100% is way too high a number.