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Study Reveals What Women Want From IT Jobs 346

Posted by Zonk
from the big-fans-of-lan-parties dept.
amigoro writes "Ever wonder why there are so few women in the IT workplace? It turns out that the typical recruiters sales pitch, which emphasizing job promotion and security, acts to keep women out of the information technology jobs. While about 30 percent indicated they valued careers that afforded them opportunities to perfect skills in technical areas, others said they wanted careers with managerial opportunities. In addition, there was little overlap among the women who reported that managers give up technical skills to develop management skills."
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Study Reveals What Women Want From IT Jobs

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  • by h2_plus_O (976551) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:36PM (#19259415)

    Ever wonder why there are so few women in the IT workplace?
    Nope. I work here, I look around, and I say this is further evidence that women in general have good judgment.
    • Re:Not surprising (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 24, 2007 @05:27PM (#19260347)
      As a recruiter, I can tell you that my sales pitch has nothing to do with the number of women working with IT. I can only work with the talent that's out there on the market, and the reality is there are at least 25 men in IT for every woman.

      In the last 2 months I've found 3 women looking for work in IT in my market area. One was a help desk candidate fresh out of college, one was a more experienced desktop support tech, and the last was a mid level Unix admin (who rode her harley to the interview). I placed all three of them in less than 36 hours over male candidates with more experience.... not hard to guess why.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Fordiman (689627)
      "30 percent indicated they valued careers that afforded them opportunities to perfect skills in technical areas, others said they wanted careers with managerial opportunities"

      Which is why they don't work in IT. You don't get to 'perfect your skills' without freelancing, and you *don't* go into IT for managerial opportunities - at least, you don't tell anyone that; the managers get a little insecure...
  • by neersign (956437) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:37PM (#19259431)
    what women don't want from IT jobs is being forced to hang out with all those nerd all day long. I'll post my study on this thesis tomorrow, I promise.
    • by Intron (870560) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @05:24PM (#19260303)
      I knew one woman in IT who tried various strategies to keep the guys from hanging around her cubicle all day. One was to leave a pouch of chewing tobacco on her desk. Finally she put up yellow tape "Police Line - Do not Cross" across the opening.
  • Hmmm... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    ...others said they wanted careers with managerial opportunities.
    So, in other words, they don't want to work in IT.
    • Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Pentavirate (867026) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:47PM (#19259619) Homepage Journal
      While women represent almost 60 percent of the workforce....

      I question this number. Does it seem fishy?

      also...

      Human-resources personnel need to recognize that women have diverse values and motivations throughout their careers and tailor hiring and retention practices to fit those needs

      Since when do employers tailor jobs for their employees? Don't employers post what they want the person to do and the job seekers decide whether they want to apply or not? Or is this only if employers "need" to employ more women in their IT departments.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Pentavirate (867026)
        Something else. What does this quote have to do with what the "typical" woman wants in an IT field. This person seems to be an outlier with some serious issues:

        "[Working in IT] is a place where I can get control that a child from a dysfunctional family wants," a 49 year-old IT operations architect, who had a traumatic childhood said. "I can make order. I can put those damn cards in the right order. I can get the syntax perfect. I can run it and have it compile cleanly. There are all of these tidiness c
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by khephera (1009359) *
        Sometimes it works out differently. I'm the female IT manager for a small company. I don't program, but have handled just about everything else since I've worked here. I started out as the receptionist after a post-911 layoff, and was promoted less than a year later because I was able to resurrect a dead DOS-based voicemail system. Over time the IT duties have been split between myself and a co-worker (also female), and I now do the design, production and webmastering of the company website, and design ads
      • direction.

        What do women want in IT jobs? The same as everyone else: An opportunity to pursue whatever goals they have through the job. If, on average, they have different goals, the jobs they take will look something different.

        My grandmother introduced me to computers when I was 5 (back in 1981). She programmed her physics models in Fortran and ran them on big mainframes and not quite so big computers (still huge by our standards today), and was a pioneer in her field of astrophysics. She had a lot in common with many women in IT today and felt that it was a mistake to focus on bringing more women into the field when we should be focusing on more fundamnetal goals instead.

        The basic issue is: in IT as in astrophysics, you are only really good at your field if you are borderline (or more) obsessive-compulsive. You can't just work in the field-- you have to live and breathe the field most of your waking hours nearly every day. It is a lifestyle more than a career. And it is found in mathematics, physics, etc (all fields dominated by men). Indeed this may say more about balance in life (and a gender gap in that area), and an ability to avoid letting one thing overwhelm the rest than it may say about aptitude in the field per se. Think about all the jokes about Slashdotters and girlfriends (or engineers and girlfriends, for that matter) and ask how many women want to be in fields where such jokes are made as at least representing some version of the reality of those who work in them.

        My suggested solution is to stop thinking about what we can do to lure women into jobs that they don't want and instead focus on architectures of participation. The goal should not be "why don't you want this job" but instead "what do *you* want to do? How do you want to participate?" THis requires a fundamental shift of a company away from top-down management into something more organic or community oriented.

        Think of it this way (for the men out here): If you were a registered nurse and everyone always asked you, "Why don't more men go into nursing?" would that be helpful or would it dissuade you from promoting others going into the field? Wouldn't it be better if we focused on redefining the field such that it could be more inclusive of people with diverse goals so that more people could contribute what they could?

        We are also going to have to admit at some point that gender roles are going to eventually play into peoples' career choices and that some fields are going to be dominated by people from one gender or the other. This is OK and healthy by itself and without other factors, not worth worrying about.
        • by WannaBeGeekGirl (461758) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @09:34PM (#19263667) Journal

          She had a lot in common with many women in IT today and felt that it was a mistake to focus on bringing more women into the field when we should be focusing on more fundamnetal goals instead.
          This is a great point. The whole post was very insightful.

          Before I focused my career 100% on the technology aspect, I helped with recruiting and interviews because it was the eaisest way to get promoted and stay technical but avoid the management track where I had to do employee reviews and firings. The seminars about interviews and recruiting tell the truth about "hiring demographics" or whatever the PC term for it is now.

          I quit the recruiting ASAP though because applicants, including females, at the job fairs would actually admit to me they didn't want to be doing IT, but felt it was the best financial hope for their future.

          It doesn't matter what career path you're on, if you're just in the interview stage and already admitting you don't want to do it, then I'm going to put your resume in the "NO" pile even if I smile and thank you for your time. Unhappy workers are not productive or good for other's morale.

          Not all the women specifically mentioned why they didn't want to do IT. A few asked me up front if I had to deal with sexism or what it was like working for and with all men. I even remember one asking me if there were any technical women at the company. When I explained that I was actually one of them, that does recruiting part time she let loose and explicative and something about how I really break the typical stereotype of "technical women". (I was pretty PO'ed at this because we have some really hawt ladies that are very competant, but I kept her resume anyway.)

          The OP's question is going to generate different answers. Especially with the generations of late. I wanted a job in IT that I enjoyed with enough compensation so that I could afford the enormous cost of living in the area I chose to live safely as a single female right out of college. Along with it I wasn't going to sacrifice any of my integrity.
    • Not quite (Score:3, Interesting)

      by WindBourne (631190)
      They want to work here. They just want to be the Chief and not the Indian. Of course, in most places it is very competitive to become either lead or manager. So if they do not want to put in their time, it is not surprising that they are leaving for different jobs or family life.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jmorris42 (1458) *
      > So, in other words, they don't want to work in IT.

      Exactly, they don't want to WORK in IT... but if offered on a silver platter they might consent to starting right into a management position in the IT Dept. Yes I know management skills aren't the same as the ones needed for hands on stuff, but it damn sure helps if one knows SOME of the skills your underlings use, if nothing else it allows you to communicate in ways that don't look ripped straight from the pages of Dilbert.

      And because of quotas and fe
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mcvos (645701)

      ...others said they wanted careers with managerial opportunities.

      So, in other words, they don't want to work in IT.

      There are plenty of managerial opportunities in IT. There's a lot of demand for project managers who know about the kind of work the project involves. Like programming.

      I keep hearing at performance reviews that it's exactly my managerial, administrative, customer-oriented skills that are lacking. I'm bad at those things exactly because I want to be a programmer, but apparently, bei

  • by spun (1352) <loverevolutionary@nOSPAM.yahoo.com> on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:41PM (#19259503) Journal
    Can we see some pics?

    Seriously though, did that line make sense to anyone else?
    • It's a sentence fragment.

      "In addition, there was little overlap (between) the women who reported that managers give up technical skills to develop management skills"..."and women who reported that managers don't give up technical skills to develop management skills." Or something.

      You can't have overlap with just one group. That's just lap.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by metlin (258108)
        See, which is weird because a lot of management folks that I work with are all big-time geeks (theoretical physicists from Bell Labs, just as an example). Do they do physics now? Of course not, but that does not mean they don't do interesting, technical stuff.

        For example, I know management folks with technical backgrounds who keep up to date on projects, who want to know what's going on and will even have a good technical debate with you.

        At the end of the day, it's not all cut and dried. There are people wh
        • Like most dichotomies, it's a false one.

          People are too prone to thinking in black in white, and that sort of thinking leads them to create articles like "Study reveals what women want in IT jobs" like it's possible to isolate the two or three factors that are preventing hordes of women from descending on the IT profession.
    • That sentence is verbatim from the article. It doesn't make any more sense in context. I came to read the posts in the hopes that someone else could interpret it for me.
  • Soooo..... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by WED Fan (911325) <akahige&trashmail,net> on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:42PM (#19259533) Homepage Journal

    So, what they want is control NOW ?

    While the rest of us toil to perfect our skills and move up the ladder, they want to be on top?

    Damn, next they will want the damned TV remote, too.

  • by SatanicPuppy (611928) * <Satanicpuppy&gmail,com> on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:42PM (#19259535) Journal
    This survey is 100% accurate, because they interviewed all 29 females currently working in IT jobs.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by travdaddy (527149)
      This survey is 100% accurate, because they interviewed all 29 females currently working in IT jobs.

      Actually they interviewed all 92 females. I'm not sure whether you didn't read the article or whether you inverted the numbers!
    • by Endo13 (1000782)
      Almost right, but you got your numbers switched around.

      according to a Penn State research study of 92 female IT practitioners.
  • Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by moderatorrater (1095745) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:42PM (#19259541)
    Why do we care why women do or do not go into IT? I don't mean this as a flame, I'm just curious, because all the tools are there for women that are there for men. Computers cost as much for a woman as they do for a man, google searches work as well for women as for men, and O'Reilly books are as easily opened by women as by men. Why separate these studies on the lines of gender?
    • Re:Why? (Score:4, Funny)

      by nine-times (778537) <nine.times@gmail.com> on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:47PM (#19259629) Homepage
      Because geeky IT guys are trying to figure out how to lure more women into their dungeons.
      • by Applekid (993327)
        "Because geeky IT guys are trying to figure out how to lure more women into their dungeons."

        Silence, you fool!
        Oday otnay alktay aboutay hetay astermay lanpay hereway hosetay uriouscay reaturescay ancay earhay ouyay.
    • Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by SatanicPuppy (611928) * <Satanicpuppy&gmail,com> on Thursday May 24, 2007 @05:06PM (#19259959) Journal
      Because it's clearly evidence of a hidden conspiracy somewhere to keep all women from doing the incredibly rewarding job that is IT.

      I agree that math/science work is probably not put up to females as positively as it should be in their early lives, but this is not a workplace issue, it's a social issue. By the time they get to the workforce, they're going to be doing whatever it is that they've been studying to do...I mean, is it that there is a massive force of women with technical degrees who aren't going into IT because the recruiting pitch isn't to their taste? That doesn't make any sense.

      It's far more likely (and my college experience bears this out) that there are relatively few women who choose to get technical degrees, and thus they are not heavily represented in the IT workforce.
      • Re:Why? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by duffbeer703 (177751) * on Thursday May 24, 2007 @06:10PM (#19261083)
        You don't need a technical degree to get into IT at all. I work at a large IT shop and would guess that about 30% of the staff have degrees in Computer Science, Math or a science. I'd estimate that about 40% of the staff is female. Other workplaces have been quite similar.

        The reason why women aren't in IT is that an ever-changing environment is something that only works for young and older women, leaving this huge career gap. Middle class women have children around age 30 and a statistically significant percentage of mothers either stop working or reduce their hours. So if you were a Novell superstar in 1992, have two kids and come back to work in 1997... guess what... you're an NT 4.0 newbie.

    • For starters, that is half of the ppl who use computers. Secondly, it offers new insight on how to do things different. I have no issue with trying to bring in more ppl esp. if it takes just a bit of work. The problem comes in, when you have a group who is basically saying that they do not wish to do the real work, but want to manage. I already have enough CIS type managers who I have had to explain WHY a hash table is of use or why their bubble sort approach will not work, and they still try to push their
    • Because we live in a politically correct world where every disparity is a racist and/or sexist and not just because people are different.

  • "...others said they wanted careers with managerial opportunities."

    I do not think I am chauvinistic and/or sexist, but maybe it's just me, but somehow, that kind of says "We don't want to do real technical work or at least less of it than most." to me since they seem to care more about manager positions than actual technical jobs.

    What do you guys/girls think?
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by truthsearch (249536)
      When I interview people for very technical programming jobs and the interviewee focuses too much on managerial opportunities it's definitely a red flag. A simple question about moving up the ladder is fine, of course. But if the intent is only to work up to management that's usually the sign of someone who's not going to enjoy the programming, and therefore not be very good at it.
    • Preferring managerial positions over technical positions isn't necessarily lazy. Both positions might be easy or hard, depending partially on how good a job you do. They're really different kinds of work, requiring different skills, and people who enjoy one sort of work might not enjoy the other sort. It might be that people who prefer managerial work are recognizing something about their own strengths and weaknesses and choosing the job that's appropriate for them.

      Of course, I'll acknowledge that some

    • Seriously, my wife and I started out in software development together, and for a time even worked for the same large corporation. Now, basing my observations on a sample size of 1, I can say that while men tend to enjoy the narrowly-focused problem solving that programming requires at times, women simply get bored with it.

      More accurately, they get bored with solving problem after problem, with no change in their prospects for advancement. For what it's worth, my wife moved to systems engineering, then

  • by mnmn (145599) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:44PM (#19259573) Homepage
    Maybe I do not understand the reasoning or am taking it emotionally,

    but I think it's a little unfair to have managers who have little or no experience in the respective field.

    It's much easier to respect a manager who knows her stuff and understands the work well rather than a fresh-out-of-college MBA.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by nine-times (778537)

      I think it's true that unexperienced managers are often bad managers, and a fresh-out-of-college MBA with no experience is likely to be... well, kind of good-for-nothing until he/she gets some experience in something. Most kids, fresh out of college and with no experience, are kind of problematic.

      However, I think it'd be a mistake to think that a manager should be required to be an experienced technical person in the respective field. Often, the skills of being the techie guru and the skills of managing

    • by drinkypoo (153816)

      It's much easier to respect a manager who knows her stuff and understands the work well rather than a fresh-out-of-college MBA.

      Frankly I don't give a damn so long as they listen to their employees. Most of my managers have believed (correctly or not) that they were more intelligent than I am, not on any logical basis, but because they're managers and I'm not.

  • by Jimmy King (828214) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:48PM (#19259635) Homepage Journal

    Human-resources personnel need to recognize that women have diverse values and motivations throughout their careers and tailor hiring and retention practices to fit those needs

    Unlike men, who apparently only have a single value and motivation for choosing their career.

    Really, I don't get the whole article. They claim there's not many women in IT because recruiters tout the chances for promotion and job security. I have my doubts that anyone, male or female, goes "Man, this job has security and I likely won't be looking for work in 3 months? Well the hell with that. I don't want this job." As to the chances for promotion, does that not fit right in line with the women interviewed and quoted who say they want to move up into IT management?

    And then of course there is a question that I always have. If there were few women in IT because they were being told they are too stupid to understand computer or something, I get how that would be a problem. If there's not many women in IT because the type of work and the rewards that IT jobs typically offer are not what many women want, though, then what's the big deal?
    • by UserChrisCanter4 (464072) * on Thursday May 24, 2007 @05:17PM (#19260173)
      Warning! Dangerous generalizations lie ahead!

      Unlike men, who apparently only have a single value and motivation for choosing their career.

      While that's not quite true, it's far more accurate when describing a man than a woman. Socially, men are judged and measured by their occupation and potential as a provider. If a man works a laid-back, 25 hour a week part-time job because his spouse allows him to do so, he's a lazy bum; for a woman, it's a perfectly acceptable decision as far as society is concerned (although how an individual woman feels about it is up to her).

      Far and above all other standards, men want a decent salary and job security, and they're willing to put up with a lot of crap to get it. According to Department of Labor statistics, for example, 90% of on-the-job deaths are men, and men work more hours both in fullt-ime and part-time jobs than women; Men will take the dangerous, filthy, and more time-intensive jobs because of the extra pay associated with them.

      Women certainly value good pay and stability, and this study isn't questioning that. Rather, it is saying that opening a book and saying, "Look ladies, we have good pay and stability" isn't the deal maker that it is for men. Socially, women can afford (more than men) to demand additional perks from a job. We're all familiar with the list: flexible hours, jobs that focus more on interpersonal communication, etc. Again, a total generalization but true when looked at as a total generalization.

      In essence: if you are an HR manager, part of your job is to bring in diverse employees. The reasons for that are certainly debatable, and I agree with you that it shouldn't be as big of a deal as some make it out to be. But if you are an HR manager, and if you are attempting to recruit more women, you should probably rethink your sales pitch.
      • While that's not quite true, it's far more accurate when describing a man than a woman. Socially, men are judged and measured by their occupation and potential as a provider. If a man works a laid-back, 25 hour a week part-time job because his spouse allows him to do so, he's a lazy bum; for a woman, it's a perfectly acceptable decision as far as society is concerned (although how an individual woman feels about it is up to her).

        Far and above all other standards, men want a decent salary and job security, a

  • My head hurts (Score:3, Interesting)

    by hcdejong (561314) <hobbes@NOSPAM.xmsnet.nl> on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:48PM (#19259639)
    What on earth does In addition, there was little overlap among the women who reported that managers give up technical skills to develop management skills mean?
    • It means that there's overlap among women who reported that managers who reported that /. editors give up English language skills in order to keep their jobs.
  • Do they bring some kind of sixth sense to programming? Does their design layout match the office decor? Does the female mind somehow intuit complex operations?

    Wouldn't a more important "study" reveal what QUALITY WORKERS want from IT jobs, not just women?

    That said, I work in the marketing department, and I'm surrounded by attractive women :D

  • Me.

    Thank you ladies, I'll be here all week!
  • They want to meet hot IT guys.

    No seriously, that's what they after!

    Ok, ok, I am joking. Like all other people they want money from their work.

    Oh maybe they want to meet hot IT guys for money. Yeah, that's it.
  • What women want (Score:5, Insightful)

    by erroneus (253617) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:52PM (#19259711) Homepage
    Who cares?!

    Women should do what men do. When a man wants a job, he works and qualifies for it. He does what is expected by the employer. And if it doesn't work out, he does something else.

    I don't think it's too much to expect women to play by the expectations of business people. You can twist and spin things any way you like, but the bottom line is that what we are talking about is business changing to meet the expectations of a specific subset of employable people. It just doesn't work quite that way. We're not talking about "challenged" [disabled] people unless you would like to reclassify women as being challenged or disabled in some way. What we're talking about is that somewhere between 45% and 55% of the general employable population who are making a decision about whether or not they want a job based on the criteria and expectations of employers for any given position... in IT or otherwise.

    I think it's lovely that women want extras and allowances from their workplace. And hell yes, if an employer WANTS to provide those things then great! There's a match and life goes on happily ever after. I want extras and allowances too! I don't often get them, but that's not enough for me to not work for a living. But what are we talking about? Employers being compelled to provide for women as if they were some "special needs" group? To me, "special needs" people are mentally challenged, sensory challenged or mobility challenged people. If women by virtue of their gender can qualify under one of those categories, then they should probably be afforded special treatment. If not, then why are we always talking about this?!

    Why aren't we talking about why there aren't more men doing jobs that are generally populated by women?

    I hold there is an idea best identified as "different but equal." We shouldn't be concerned whether or not women want to be involved in a certain profession if that is their choice. If they want it, they will do what other people who want it do. If they would rather not do what it takes, then they shouldn't do the job... and that's largely why they don't I'm guessing.

    Would *I* like to see more women in IT? **YES** I like smart women who can appreciate the things I appreciate. That's just about every geek's desire. It's rare, it's a pity, but it's life.
    • A conservative, on my Slashdot? I guess it is more common than you would think.
    • by griffjon (14945)
      At least issues I think are playing into this. First, women are socialized differently, often discouraged from the sciences/math/programming/etc.. This is a social problem which is changing through recent generations. Second, there remains a significant wage gap between women and men doing the same job, which is a labor issue - frankly I think it's pitiful that this type of inequality is still lurking around. Thirdly, and most importantly, is that there are real differences in a woman in the workplace t
  • Diversity (Score:4, Interesting)

    by oyenstikker (536040) <slashdot@CHEETAHsbyrne.org minus cat> on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:52PM (#19259719) Homepage Journal
    Is there any evidence that diversity in the workplace has any tangible benefit to productivity, the bottom line, quality, or employee happiness? I would think that having a group of employees working together who have similar backgrounds, cultures, ideas, and styles would work better together than a diverse group - leading to higher productivity, higher employee happiness, better communication, and an overall positive effect on the bottom line.

    One will often hear the argument that diversity brings different ideas and approaches to the table. This may be the case in some fields, and may have a positive impact in some fields. I suspect that IT is not one of those fields. Somebody is not likely to have a different and helpful perspective on any particular technical problem because they have different skin color, a different gender, or a different culture.

    Before you call me racist, consider what I am suggesting: that a group of old nerdy white East-coast Slashdotters and a group of young liberal social Latino SoCal women will _both_ outperform a "diverse" group. I am not discussing, nor presently concerned with, the relative productivity of the first two groups.

    It would be an interesting problem if it was shown that diversity actually hinders performance in certain fields. A corporation's policy of encouraging diversity would be in direct opposition to its responsibility to its shareholders.

    Conduct a study that contradicts my hypothesis, I and will gladly admit to being wrong.
    • It does create several insanely high paying positions that exist to write fluffy statements about "leveraging our diversity to create solutions for our customer".

      I only wish that wasn't part of the mission statement of the company I work for....and really wish that the people who write that dribble didn't get 10x my salary....
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by drinkypoo (153816)

      Somebody is not likely to have a different and helpful perspective on any particular technical problem because they have different skin color, a different gender, or a different culture.

      The only rebuttal to this statement that I can think of on short notice (and I don't necessarily agree with either viewpoint, I'm just a master debater, ho ho) is that they might not have a different perspective on a technical issue, but different people might be more or less adept at communicating with certain types of peo

  • by grassy_knoll (412409) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:54PM (#19259749) Homepage
    From TFA:

    "My parents said we are [only] paying for four years of school and I could not become a lawyer in four years", 48 year-old CIO said. " I just said okay, well I want to make a lot of money and so what is the next best thing? And I did the research and the computing industry was the next big booming thing"


    If you're in technology for the money, there would seem to be easier ways ( marketing, stock trader/finance ). Perhaps, if this is the motivation, a different path might be better?

    However, this ( also from TFA ) seems to be spot-on:

    "[Working in IT] is a place where I can get control that a child from a dysfunctional family wants," a 49 year-old IT operations architect, who had a traumatic childhood said. "I can make order. I can put those damn cards in the right order. I can get the syntax perfect. I can run it and have it compile cleanly. There are all of these tidiness control things that are so beautiful about programming and a computer program will not betray you. It does the same damn thing every time"


    So, if you're a bitter control freak ( All programers and DBAs, raise your hands. Yes, you too. Mine is up as well.) welcome home.

    What's interesting from TFA is 18 of 92 respondants quoted the first motivation, while 28 quoted the second. What, did the other 46 pick "other"?
  • And before you set up your pillory, I heard this on The Simpsons, so it must be true!

    (Special insert for the clue-challenged: Malibu Stacey is as off as the HR people described in the article.)

    • It was originally part of Teen Talk Barbie in 1992. From the Barbie Wiki [wikipedia.org] (so you know it's true!) In 1992 Mattel released Teen Talk Barbie, which spoke a number of phrases including "Will we ever have enough clothes?", "I love shopping!", and "Wanna have a pizza party?" Each doll was programmed to say four out of 270 possible phrases, so that no two dolls were likely to be the same. One of these 270 phrases was "Math class is tough!"
  • by DigitalSorceress (156609) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @04:57PM (#19259799)
    From the Article::
        "My parents said we are [only] paying for four years of school and I could
          not become a lawyer in four years", 48 year-old CIO said. " I just said
          okay, well I want to make a lot of money and so what is the next best
          thing? And I did the research and the computing industry was the next big
          booming thing"

    My first thought:
    I have noted throughout my career that the worst IT people are those who are in it for the money or treat it as just a job.

    Those managers and co-workers who have a true passion... those who live and breathe for technology: they're the ones that actually get stuff done.
    • My first thought:
      I have noted throughout my career that the worst IT people are those who are in it for the money or treat it as just a job.

      I think that's true of just about every career other than sales (where being in it for the money can actually help). Pursuing a career that you aren't passionate about is also a good way to ensure a mid-life crisis.
    • Yeah, one of the three main questions I ask my potential new hires is "Tell me about your home computer system." Not because I give a damn what kind of computer they have, but I want to gauge their level of enthusiasm about it. The lamers will give a generic "Oh, it's a Dell, like, 2.4ghz, pretty decent," full stop.

      I want to hear things like what kind of video card, what type of processor chip, the network they've got going, what OS they're running, that sort of stuff. The good techs will tell you al
  • I see not a single reference to Mel Gibson in the article. I call shenanigans!

  • Actually... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Applekid (993327) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @05:01PM (#19259877)
    According to Ace of Base,

    All that she wants
    Is another baby
    She's gone tomorrow, boy.

    So I don't know what IT can really offer women.
  • Recruiters (Score:3, Informative)

    by CrazyTalk (662055) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @05:02PM (#19259887)
    The problem is not what the recruiters are pitching, it is the recruiters themselves. In most if not all IT-centric organizations that I have worked in, recruiters are young, good looking woman. This is entirely intentional, as a means to attract the young, generally not so good looking geek guys. Often the HR department of a Software company is the only department with a signficant number of females. Perhaps a few young hot guys in HR would help attract more women to IT.
  • This artical is a joke. I'm glad to hear that some lady feels that programming is a better palce than her disfunctional childhood, but who really cares? If the study were about disfunctional families and the warm feeling one gets from a computer I might care, but it isn't and I don't.
  • This is because I work in civil service, where we have a 37.5 hour workday, 9 to 5 with a half hour lunch, excellent benefits, plenty of vacation time off, and a living wage. Oh, and it takes an act of congress to fire one of us (pretty close, anyway).

    Women are sensible. They want:

    * Job security

    * A living wage

    * Reasonable hours that are compatible with raising a family

    * Good benefits

    * A nice working environment.

    All of these things are available in plenty in civil service. I knew that years ago, and got in
    • by PitaBred (632671)
      And you get jack-shit that's useful done, so bogged down in bureaucracy that you can't even install a simple application to help with your work without pages of forms and IT approvals and such, just to install and use gvim. And that's just from the Forestry people I've worked with. No thanks.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        You're full of shit. I work in state government and we have complete autonomy to build whatever solutions we feel are appropriate. Last year I set up two Oracle application servers for internal agency use, a public website, two large databases, a testing database, and an upgraded software set for all our employees. All I had to get was my boss' permission -- which he gave via email.

        The public-facing website, for example, included single sign on, an Oracle Portal, and a complete port of literally hundreds of
  • The article itself is crap, really. It doesn't seem to address anything well or sensibly, as other commenters have noted. The real problem with being a woman in IT? Shows in the comment threads to this post.

    I've worked IT jobs and I've worked education jobs and I've worked retail and that whole collection of jobs that someone works getting to where one needs to be, and even as recently as, oh, two weeks ago, showing up in response to something IT-related with the audacity of having been born and contin
  • by Anon-Admin (443764) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @05:05PM (#19259933) Journal
    10. Women do not like to work 80 hours a week.
    09. Women expect to be promoted and IT people do not get promoted.
    08. Women expect benefits and maturity leave which is hard to do when on call 24/7/365
    07. Women Like having family time, not getting called and having to run because the the company sees the server as more important than their kids.
    06. Women know that guys NEVER listen when they give instructions, so telling some one how to fix a computer is pointless.
    05. Most women meet their husbands at work, and the IT department is not as good as being an executive assistant.
    04. Women like to have others to talk to and geeks only drool when they are around.
    03. Women expect to be treated with respect and we all know that IT is never treated with respect.
    02. Women like taking baths and showers and can not stand being around people who do not.

    And the number one reason is

    01. Women never let guys know how smart they are, this would put them at a disadvantage when arguing.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Jeff DeMaagd (2015)
      I know it's a joke, but I kind of feel sorry for the suckers that do work overtime at a job. I think a person ends up devaluing their life a lot while working significant overtime. In IT, that basically shows the lie of technology meaning a better life. A few hours here and there is fine, but consistent overtime is stupid.
    • I just came back from maturity leave. I no longer talk about 80's cartoons or Batman comics. Damn maturity.
  • they are smarter then the rest of us in are 'rewarding' work to death for meager salary jobs.

    If I was to do it over again, I'd become an actuary.
  • by GovCheese (1062648) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @05:12PM (#19260065)
    I've been working overseas in the Middle East and Asia and my IT workforce have been pretty much evenly divided by gender. Perhaps non-western women view IT as an unusual opportunity to gain entre to the marketplace and work with men as peers. Why it's not appealing to western women is not clear in the article although I must say not much of anything is clear in the article.
  • This whole pandering idea is ironic because only nerds have low enough self-esteem to care MORE about what women want as a gender, than they care about what men want. It's about PEOPLE, not gender. Kissing up to women is gonna get you friended, not laid. Who gives a shit what women as a whole want? Most of them are jackall stupid and egocentric, just like the average man. I care what individual beacons, individual people of worth want. People talk about appreciating diversity, but then they cram the differe
  • by keraneuology (760918) on Thursday May 24, 2007 @06:19PM (#19261239) Journal
    Jeria has done almost nothing in her academic career besides push the notion that women need to take over the IT industry. Without any respect to concepts of dedication or aptitude (one of her subjects stated "I like the solution piece of IT, but keeping up with the nuts and bolts and all that, I really do not enjoy that") she pushes papers such as:

    • "Understanding the Under Representation of Women in the IT Workforce."

      • "Exploring the Importance of Social Networks in the IT Workforce: Experiences with the 'Boy's Club.'"

        • "Problematizing the Problem of Gender Under Representation in IT."

          Plus, three the four professional organizations she claims on her CV are sexist, discriminatory and exclusionary - yet if anybody ever suggested to her that there should be an organization for "Men in the Sciences and Engineering" what do you suppose her reaction would be?

          This is nothing more than yet another sexist, feminist ivory tower denizen who believes that advancement at the expense of others is a noble pursuit. Some of the best IT workers I've ever known were women and some of the worst were men - and I, like just about everybody else, really don't care who does the work so long as the work gets done. Sex should have absolutely ~zero~ consideration in IT hiring practices. Hire the best person for the job and get rid of that person if their work-life balance is always tipped towards life at the expense of work.

If money can't buy happiness, I guess you'll just have to rent it.

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