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Security Science

Attack-Proof Power Line to be Installed Under NY 283

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the everyone-is-a-terrorist dept.
Podcaster writes "American Superconductor Corporation and Con Edison have announced a joint effort to develop and deploy a new system that utilizes high temperature superconductor power cable technology in Con Edison's grid in New York City. The project, called Project Hydra, will aim to establish 'Secure Super Grids' that can withstand extreme weather and terrorist attacks."
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Attack-Proof Power Line to be Installed Under NY More

Attack-Proof Power Line to be Installed Under NY

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  • Reasons why NYC needs 'Team Hydra' (Score:5, Informative)

    by Podcaster ( 1098781 ) * on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:02PM (#19213217) Homepage Journal

    Don't want to RTFA? That's fine, this is /. after all. Here's a summary of the main points to get you started:

    • "Project Hydra" is named after the mythical Greek monster that grew back multiple heads when one was severed. The grid is expected to be able to self-regulate power surges and maintain supply under extreme conditions.
    • The system's reliability comes from the large number of interconnections that will be made to the power grid under NYC. This is also the driving force behind the need to use HTS materials because the electrical resistance of copper is too high for it to be used.
    • The superconductor cable is expected to cost nearly $40 million, funded in part by the US Dept of Homeland Security.
    • The cable is expected to be commissioned for operation in early 2010.
    • This link [amsuper.com] is the best place to start if you want to find out more about Team Hydra.
    • I, for one, welcome our new multi-headed superconducting subterrainian overlords!

    -P

    • I'm torn ... the /. summary was less condescending, but your bullet points are a nice touch.

      If I had mod points ... and hadn't posted this reply ... well, you know the rest. ;-)

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Deagol ( 323173 )

      The superconductor cable is expected to cost nearly $40 million, funded in part by the US Dept of Homeland Security.

      That's rich -- toss in a reference to terrorism into the bid, and you get federal dollars for your project. Lame... and expensive.

      However, I think the grid's greatest enemy is it's own users. This country is too power hungry.

      • Re:Reasons why NYC needs 'Team Hydra' (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Podcaster ( 1098781 ) * on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:12PM (#19213375) Homepage Journal

        The superconductor cable is expected to cost nearly $40 million, funded in part by the US Dept of Homeland Security.

        That's rich -- toss in a reference to terrorism into the bid, and you get federal dollars for your project. Lame... and expensive.

        However, I think the grid's greatest enemy is it's own users. This country is too power hungry.

        I tend to agree with you. I'm not sure that this system addresses any part of the power infrastructure that might actually be vulnerable to human attack. Natural disasters are fine, but have any NYC blackouts in recent decades been caused by nature, or have they all been SNAFU?

        -P

        • Natural disasters are fine, but have any NYC blackouts in recent decades been caused by nature, or have they all been SNAFU?

          So let's say I'm working as a cop. If I've never been shot, I guess that means I shouldn't bother to wear a vest?

          Now, I agree that too much money is being spent on the spectre of terrorism, mostly because in general the money is wasted - not because an attack is unlikely, but because they are doing stupid shit that wouldn't help anyway. But not only does this make the system potentially more secure, but it has other substantial benefits.

          And, I might add, as conventional military might becomes more and more marginalized, the odds of terrorist attack increase because other means of combat become less and less viable.

          It's not like we're stopping our usual dirty tricks, which is what brought terrorism upon us to begin with. So taking precautions against future terrorism seems like a sound idea. Of course, not meddling overmuch in international politics (in this case, meddling being defined as bombing) to begin with would be a sounder strategy.

        • It's all the racing around that goes on these days which is to blame for the recent blackouts.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by mikael ( 484 )
          Natural disasters are fine, but have any NYC blackouts in recent decades been caused by nature, or have they all been SNAFU?

          Not NYC, but there was a major power failure in the Bay Area when construction workers accidently earthed the entire grid. They threw a grounding switch before disconnecting power lines from the grid for regular maintenance work. The entire region went down. We figured it wasn't just our office when workers from the other office blocks started pouring out of their offces onto the stree

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by aaarrrgggh ( 9205 )

            Not NYC, but there was a major power failure in the Bay Area when construction workers accidently earthed the entire grid. They threw a grounding switch before disconnecting power lines from the grid for regular maintenance work. The entire region went down. We figured it wasn't just our office when workers from the other office blocks started pouring out of their offces onto the streets.

            Are you referring to the outage in ~1997 or a more recent incident? The irony of your comment in this context is that it

      • Re:Reasons why NYC needs 'Team Hydra' (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jandrese ( 485 ) <kensama@vt.edu> on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:26PM (#19213581) Homepage Journal
        I don't work in the industry, but I have to say that $40M for a long haul power line sounds pretty cheap, especially when you give it the old anti-terr'ism spin. Personally, I'm impressed that they can run a cryogenic cable underneath NYC that cheaply.
      • Is somebody's pet project too unreasonable/expensive? Just invent a movie plot and say the magic word....

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by furball ( 2853 )

        That's rich -- toss in a reference to terrorism into the bid, and you get federal dollars for your project. Lame... and expensive.


        How do you feel about the Eisenhower system? Can you live without it?

        • Re:Reasons why NYC needs 'Team Hydra' (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Deagol ( 323173 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:50PM (#19213891) Homepage
          I assume you're referring to the interstate highway system? I could certainly live w/o the Feds holding highway funding over state's heads when they try to show an ounce of sovereignty. State-level roads are sufficient. The US economy would not collapse if the interstate highway system suddenly vanished. Hell, maybe the rotting US rail system would get a much needed kick in the ass as a result. :)

          • Re:Reasons why NYC needs 'Team Hydra' (Score:4, Insightful)

            by merreborn ( 853723 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @08:50PM (#19215731) Journal

            The US economy would not collapse if the interstate highway system suddenly vanished. Hell, maybe the rotting US rail system would get a much needed kick in the ass as a result. :)


            The economy hit a bit of a speedbump due to a couple of towers collapsing, and the grounding of all flights for a few days, and you think the highway system disappearing overnight wouldn't be noticed?

            Trains don't go everywhere. There are only so many miles of serviceable rails left in the country, and only so many locamotives. The infrastructure for converting entirely to rail just isn't there. It'd take years for it to get there.

            By 2008, the trucking industry will haul 9.3 billion tons, or over 64 percent, of total U.S. freight tonnage. By 2008, 87 cents out of every dollar of U.S. freight revenue will go to the trucking industry. 70 percent of U.S. communities depend solely on trucking for delivery of their goods and commodities.

            The trucking industry employs more than 9 million nationwide.             (That's 3% of the population, and about 5% of the workforce)

            Most of the nation's half million trucking companies would collapse overnight, entire cities would become uninhabitable over the course of the following months, and the economy would take a nosedive. It'd take decades to fully recover.

            I'd gladly accept that we could probably do without the allocation of federal funds to the highway system at this point, if the states could themselves could capture those tax dollars and mange them themselves, but to suggest that "the interstate highway system suddenly vanish[ing]" wouldn't cause significant economic turmoil is completely unrealistic.
      • toss in a reference to terrorism into the bid, and you get federal dollars for your project. Lame... and expensive...

        You're just jealous because none of the gravy will drip onto your plate.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by DragonWriter ( 970822 )

        That's rich -- toss in a reference to terrorism into the bid, and you get federal dollars for your project.


        Hey, stop whining and find a way to make it work for good. Like come up with an excuse that free 100MB/s symmetric network connections to every home in America help fight terrorism.

    • "Project Hydra" is named after the mythical Greek monster that grew back multiple heads when one was severed.

      After reading that, I immediately assumed you were talking about the resulting network of bureaucratic asshats who would stall the project and drain the funds like so many vampires... just like the WTC rebuild project.

      Then I read the rest of your post and found it much more informative than that. Kudos!

      (I still expect a bureaucratic boondoggle, though...)
      =Smidge=

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by LiquidCoooled ( 634315 )
      That sounds like the superconducting array embedded within the scrith of the RingWorld ;)

      I wonder if you could make use of the EM field which that will give off or if it will effect us in some way?

  • smekel666 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by User 956 ( 568564 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:03PM (#19213235) Homepage
    The project, called Project Hydra, will aim to establish 'Secure Super Grids' that can withstand extreme weather and terrorist attacks.

    But will it survive human error and project mismanagement? I think not. [bigdig.com]

    • But will it survive human error and project mismanagement? I think not.
      What are you, a commie?!?
      • I'm a commie- and even I think the free market has a better idea at this point. Instead of doing multiple redundancy in New York City, why not move the entire damned stock market into cyberspace where it belongs, on geographically redundant servers? It would have all sorts of good effects- you could then make the entire finanical industry work by telecomuting, and because people wouldn't have to live in that hellhole that is NYC anymore, they could see a huge exodus from the impossible housing prices.
    • But what about the power plants? If those go off-line, won't the city still go dark?

      Anyone who think this project means NYC will withstand a coordinated attempt to black out the east coast (or even gross incompetence) is sorely mistaken.

    • The BIG question (Score:2, Insightful)

      by hurfy ( 735314 )
      "that can withstand extreme weather and terrorist attacks."

      But can it withstand the squirrels down the street that have an affinity for transformers?

      Whadya mean squirrel-proof is another 40 million......

  • Attack-proof? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Lockejaw ( 955650 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:03PM (#19213237)
    That sounds like a challenge. Hope nobody in NY agrees with me...
    • Adding complexity generally makes systems more fragile and more prone to attack.

      Exisgting conductors use either bus-bars (hunks of metal) or cables. These are pretty reliable and well understood. Sure they can break and corrode, but they are by no means fragile. So-called "high temperature" superconductors still need cryogenic cooling which means a more complex system to maintain (pumps, piping, etc etc)

      Gee I wonder which system is more likely to break down due to natural events (earthquake, flooding etc) o

  • Brand new attack vectors (Score:4, Funny)

    by geoff lane ( 93738 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:05PM (#19213267)
    IIRC, superconductors tend to loss their superconducting properties when strong magnetic fields are applied.

    Look out for terrorists buying large amounts of copper wire and batteries...

    • Re:Brand new attack vectors (Score:4, Funny)

      by Control Group ( 105494 ) * on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:10PM (#19213331) Homepage
      I'm not worried; I've duct-taped all my windows.
    • Thats ironic because there will be lots of spare copper wire lying around from the old powerlines. ;)
  • See the title. It says "attack-proof". Yet the cool bit is the high-temperature superconductor bit. Is anyone actually that worried about a terrorist attack? People don't leave the house without a diaper anymore!

    Hey hosers, happy two-four eh!

  • My greek mythology is a bit rusty... (Score:5, Funny)

    by niceone ( 992278 ) * on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:08PM (#19213317) Journal
    From TFA:

    The Department of Homeland Security will fund up to $25 million for the nearly $40 million superconductor cable, it calls "Project Hydra," after the mythical Greek monster that grew back multiple heads when one was severed.

    Wasn't Hydra was the mythical monster that managed to think of multiple ways to get government money in the name of fighting terrorism each time one was cut off?

  • It seems if you know the right people you can get public funds in the name of "anti-terrorism" for anything these days!

  • PFFT... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by way2trivial ( 601132 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:13PM (#19213379) Homepage Journal
    screw terrorism, screw weather, is it BACKHOE proof?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Tackhead ( 54550 )
      > screw terrorism, screw weather, is it BACKHOE proof?

      Depends on the backhoe, doesn't it? An God-fearing American backhoe will do what comes naturally - severing both the power cable and the jacket that carries the liquid nitrogen coolant.

      But a terrorist backhoe, that's the problem. It'll happily chomp away at the cable, knowing that as soon as it breaks the liquid nitrogen containment, its innocent operator will notice the plume of boiling liquid nitrogen, and immediately throw it into reverse!

      • The system will almost certainly be segmented, which makes it both more fault-tolerant AND easier to install/repair/et cetera. I know you were just being funny, but I thought I'd throw that out there for the engineering-impaired.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by CormacJ ( 64984 )
      That was my initial thought. I'd give it a year before someone digs through it, or drives a foundation piling through it, or steals it for scrap to feed their meth habit.

  • I for one could give a shit about NYC... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    So we are going to spend how much more to protect one city out of hundreds in our country. And we're going to do it in a manner that makes no sense to me. Let's bury all the cables, because terrorists have demonstrated that they want to blow up electric towers. Now they will just aim for the generation facilities.

    In the meantime, Seattle, LA, Chicago, Detroit, Boston, Miami, Houston, Washington DC, etc all will have 'vulnerable' powerlines. So in reality, we are just throwing another giant chunk of money in

    • Re:I for one could give a shit about NYC... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Rakishi ( 759894 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:33PM (#19213683)

      And we're going to do it in a manner that makes no sense to me. Let's bury all the cables, because terrorists have demonstrated that they want to blow up electric towers. Now they will just aim for the generation facilities.
      The cables in manhattan asfaik are already buried, this is just an upgrade to the current system. since they are already buried the cost is minimal compared to having to actually move them underground.

      In the meantime, Seattle, LA, Chicago, Detroit, Boston, Miami, Houston, Washington DC, etc all will have 'vulnerable' powerlines. So in reality, we are just throwing another giant chunk of money in the Anti-Terrorism wastebasket.
      NYC as a whole has 8million people, the greater NYC areas has something like 20 million. The power grid is so highly interconnected that you probably have 50 million people that'd be affected at worst. It is the single largest city and urban area in the US by far and houses the most important financial markets in the US so yes it is the first choice in such matters.

      If it was that big of a threat, wouldn't we be spending billions doing it everywhere?
      Well I don't think NYC can tell other cities what to do but if they want to then they can request some money for their own projects as well.

      I, for one, am ashamed of our Big Brother Overlords. The USA is done. Stick a fork in it.
      what in god's name are you smoking, how the hell is this big brother? They're not watching you, they're not controlling you, they're not restricting your freedom. They're building a f-ing cable. You're the one whose paranoid, except its not about safety but about losing it which is just as bad in some ways (cry wolf and missing the obvious losses of it).

    • New York is one of the world financial hubs... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Etherwalk ( 681268 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:38PM (#19213741)
      Economy of New York [wikipedia.org]

      If it were a country, its GDP would be the 17th largest in the world. It makes a prime target for economic reasons, and major terrorist action in New York would have a significant impact on the rest of the nation.

      This does sound like a grab for homeland security money, certainly; but it's not unreasonable, on the whole, to keep a special eye on New York when it comes to preventing terrorism.
    • This is being put in New York because NYC has a history of huge, debilitating power outages. Three times in the past half-century, the entire city (and the surrounding region) has been blacked out, causing massive economic losses. New York needs it, Seattle doesn't.

      "Terrorism" is just a keyword included on all public works funding requests nowadays. This has nothing to do with terrorist threats, real or implied.
    • ...because terrorists have demonstrated that they want to blow up electric towers...

      Well, well. Funny you should mention that. Have any electrical power towers been blown up by terrorists in the US recently? Ever? Have any credible plots planning to do so come to light?

      Guess what folks. That is evidence that there are extremely few terrorist cells in the US, not the other way around. Wise up, everybody, the "War on Terror" is a lie. It is a scam built around 9/11, which itself still holds a few dark secr

  • New target (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ushering05401 ( 1086795 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:13PM (#19213389) Journal
    Uh.. according to TFA this system must be cooled to -382 degrees farenheit to work properly. Of course they use liquid nitrogen to do the cooling.

    So now, instead of having a system that can be patched relatively quickly with stock parts by people wearing goggles and cover-alls you will have a system that depends on a teams able to deal with radical temperatures within the system, cordoning off segments from the liquid cooling system, performing maintenance, and reintroducing additional coolant before the patch can be brought back online.

    While they may find a way to make this new power system harder to take down completely, the process of getting it back up after a destructive event would seem to be exponentially more difficult.

    If anything, this technology could inspire terrorist types to try hitting the power grid... something they have not done in America yet.

    Let's hope not.

    Regards.
    • While they may find a way to make this new power system harder to take down completely, the process of getting it back up after a destructive event would seem to be exponentially more difficult.

      So, the question is, how hard is it to take down completely? If the answer is "extremely hard", then who cares if it takes a lot of effort to repair it?
      • Well a conventional power system with the same precautions would be equally hard to take down, but without the expense of topping off cryogenic coolant or the hassle of cooling-related downtime.

    • Re:New target (Score:4, Informative)

      by khallow ( 566160 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:38PM (#19213733)
      Liquid nitrogen isn't that big a deal. Many businesses routinely handle the stuff. The key problems here are maintaining a supply of liquid nitrogen and the safety issues surrounding a cryogenic liquid that can displace oxygen when in gaseous form and which boils below the boiling point of oxygen. It can be dangerous, but not unusually so for an environment involving high voltage equipment.
      • mmmmm
        LOX

        Yup, that is one of the most hazardous bits right there. Not only does the boiling N2 displace the oxygen in the (assumed to be) confined space, it also produces one of the most reactive liquids known to man.
        -nB
    • ...I'm confused. Liquid nitrogen boils at -196 C (-230 F).

    • If anything, this technology could inspire terrorist types to try hitting the power grid... something they have not done in America yet.

      If they wanted to do that there would be a lot of much easier ways to handle it than attacking a buried cable.

      The first thing that comes to mind is to rent a whole fleet of U-Hauls and just drive them through the gates of multiple substations and blow them all up at once, which would eliminate the ability to route around the problem and knock out large areas.

      Another thin

  • As a ham will this cause noise interference like some power lines do? (specifically broadband over power)

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Ironsides ( 739422 )
      As a HAM, you should know the answer. Broadband over Powerlines only causes interference due to the frequencies in the power lines being the same as you might try to transmit at. In these, the frequency is going to be 60hz, the frequency of your electrical outlet. I highly doubt you are ever going to be transmiting at 60hz on purpose.
  • ... that can withstand extreme weather ...

    By which they mean anything above about 40K.

    (That's about -230C for the physics-impaired.)

    (and around -380F for SI-impaired American readers. ;-)
    • And around 180R for those of us who prefer a logical, yet higher-integral-accuracy temperature measurement.

  • Hydra...really? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Itninja ( 937614 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:16PM (#19213453) Homepage
    I know they were thinking of the mythical monster when the name Hydra was decided upon. But don't any of the geek on the staff read comics? Don't they know that HYDRA [wikipedia.org] is the code name for a global terrorist organization? I mean c'mon! Why don't they just call it Spectre?

  • Attack-proof? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Red Flayer ( 890720 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:16PM (#19213455) Journal
    sorry, the claim of it being 'attack-proof' is just PR spin from DHS. The ConEd site about the project, and all the other info I've found on it, don't mention proof against terrorism as a primary part of the project. It's designed to carry a heavy load in a low volume of space, and to resist current faults (surges). It does have redundant substations, but that's to resist faults as much as terror attacks.

    DHS always tries to justify public expenditure by playing the terror card, but in reality, the blackout of 2003 (or whatever year it was) has far more to do with Hydra than any terror threat.

    That said, in today's environment, doesn't it seem a bit moronic to name your project after a mythical monster slain by a mythical hero from the Middle East? Isn't that just asking for people to see the US as the bad guys?

    And, of interest possibly only to me:

    for that there shold be such a serpent with seven heads, I think it unpossible, and no more to bee beleeved and credited than that Castor and Pollux were conceived in an egge
    -Topsell

    I never knew Ralph Wiggum masqueraded as a 17th century English naturalist.

    • That said, in today's environment, doesn't it seem a bit moronic to name your project after a mythical monster slain by a mythical hero from the Middle East?


      Umm... I think you may be a bit mixed up. The Hydra was slain by Hercules. You know, the one from Greece?
    • "slain by a mythical hero from the Middle East?"

      They've moved Greece to the Middle East have they? And here I'd always thought it was part of continental Europe, and arguably the birthplace of Western Civilization as well.
    • Not with the public, but with DHS. It's how it goes in any field: Whatever is the popular scare, just relate your shit to that to get funding. You a library that needs funding for a security guard to keep vandals out? Oh, sorry, no can do, budget is too strapped. Well, just respin that shit as an anti-terror imitative. We need to reassess security to keep terrorists for getting bomb making information and targets from publicly available material. Oh look, all of a sudden you have funding.

      I could see ConEd d

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by NullProg ( 70833 )

      That said, in today's environment, doesn't it seem a bit moronic to name your project after a mythical monster slain by a mythical hero from the Middle East? Isn't that just asking for people to see the US as the bad guys?

      Why, they didn't call it Ali Baba and the forty thieves. They called it a Hydra, you know, a creature from Greek mythology.

      My Big Fat Greek programmer / cow-worker sitting in the next room would be insulted if you said he was from the Middle East.

      Enjoy,

  • It's pretty bad that in order to get funding for upgraded power lines, it has to be billed as "terrorist proof" for DHS money.

    Nothing really against the project, except that I'd have thought it would be a strict DOE project. Oh, I'm still too naive.
  • They will have thought of it now. Especially since they're touting it's indestructibility.

    What's next, the whole project goes *kaboom* after someone does something stupid, and we get Patriot Act v2.0?

  • Sheer genius (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:24PM (#19213567)
    Because nothing says "fault tolerance" better than a requirement to keep 40 miles of wire at -400F.
  • Will this have any effect at all on the problems brought on by massive powergrid fluctuations (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_North_America_b l ackout [wikipedia.org] ). A cascading failure happened because the power grid didn't work well in what you could call "island operation mode" (i.e. local powerstations being effectivly isolated into their own "island" by separating them from the full grid).

    I suspect that should someone really hit the grid they would most likely take down some of the major trunk lines out in

  • Minotaur would be more fun... Hydra is appropriate (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Ajehals ( 947354 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:27PM (#19213591) Journal
    So a check-list:

    Name? -> Fine,
          Protection from environmental issues? - nil,
          Protection against terrorism? - May stop Greek Historian Fundamentalists.

    Self Regulating? -> Fine
          Protection from environmental issues? - moderate, will route around local issues.
          Protection against terrorism? -> See above

    Large number of interconnects -> Fine
          Protection from environmental issues? - moderate, its redundant (see Self Regulating).
          Protection against terrorism? -> See above

    Superconductor requires extreme cooling -> Hmm
          Protection from environmental issues? - Nil, (may help fight global warming?)
          Protection against terrorism? -> Hope they don't damage the cooling infrastructure, or the
                                                        containment, or the management systems. I guess that would
                                                        break it

    Cost @ $40 million -> Good
          Protection from environmental issues? -> Nil
          Protection against terrorism? -> Nil
          (Doesn't seem to high for something unique, just think of the tourists (not terrorists,
          *tourists*))

    Funded in part by the US DHS -> Hmm
          Protection from environmental issues? -> Nil
          Protection against terrorism? -> Nil, but propaganda coup for DHS!!

    Its amazing how many things appear to have a secondary benefit in preventing terrorist attacks. I would hate to see what kind of projects we'd get if there were a spate of shark attacks... (A new inland housing development, it provides cheap, affordable housing... and protection from sharks..)
  • Surely they mean "Attack Resistant". No sane person would use the 'proof' word in this world.
  • For an "attack proof" power line, I wouldn't think a superconductor would be the best idea. I mean, just boil off the liquid N2 and you've got a fairly high resistance material. Same thing happens if you go over the critical magnetic field.

    I still wanna know what they're using. 123YBaCuO and most other high temp superconductors are kinda hard to draw into a wire, but I guess a thick cable might be easier.
    • Yup, pretty worthless if you ask me. Might be more cost-efficient over the lifetime of the line to lay 10 regular conductors than one superconductor.

      And since when did "high temperature" refer to -230C?

      Oh, I guess I was thinking of Room Temperature Superconductors [wikipedia.org], which are still a pipe-dream.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sokoban ( 142301 )
        High temperature superconductors are ones that work in liquid N2. Other ones need even colder temperatures.
    • I mean, just boil off the liquid N2 and you've got a fairly high resistance material.

      Or just interrupt the supply of liquid N2. That doesn't even seem like much of a challenge.

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:34PM (#19213695)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • ... this cables wouldn't last one single day. People here (in São Paulo) steals low-tech copper telephony cables. How about high-tech "high temperature superconductor power cable"?
  • But it just makes it easier for the Drow.
  • can withstand extreme weather and terrorist attacks
    What's the price of the label "Terrorist attack safe"?

    Special discount at WalMart: Terrorist attack safe coke! Buy 2 get 1 free!

  • Oh great (Score:2)

    by bmo ( 77928 )
    So when is Con Ed going to stop electrocuting dogs and passers by?

    http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopic s/people/l/jodie_lane/index.html?query=CONSOLIDATE D%20EDISON%20INC&field=org&match=exact [nytimes.com]

    Fix THAT first.

    --
    BMO

  • Powerlines aren't the weakspot (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Suzumushi ( 907838 ) on Monday May 21, 2007 @05:57PM (#19213959)
    It's fairly easy to replace downed or damaged transmission lines. The real vulnerability in a power distribution system are the transformers, all of which are easily destroyed [google.com] and extremely difficult to replace. So attack proof powerlines are nice, but really doesn't solve the problem in the bigger picture.
  • ConEd neither knows nor cares about how to make reliable electric grids. They're a huge $BILLION monopoly on which all of NYC depends every second, every day. When over 100K people in Queens lost power [wikipedia.org] for a week or two last Summer, Bloomberg praised ConEd, which still hasn't figured out what caused the blackout. That's after ConEd's failure to cope with the cascading outages that left NYC dark during the vast 2003 Northeast Blackout [wikipedia.org].

    Now they're getting superconductor money to play with. They probably think
  • The spiffy graphic presentation tells me that the LiqN2 goes in the middle, but I'm not seeing an explanation of how they get the N2 in the cable and what happens to it as it warms up, or do they not have to replenish it? I did notice in the presentation that the super cable is cold-blue and old power cables are danger-red and that a jaggy white line can hit the cold-blue cable 3 times without doing anything, but it kills the danger-red cable in one strike. I wonder how much they spent on that presentation?
  • Personally I would expect a cryogenic cable to be even more vulnerable. After all, you can attack it directly and you can attack its cooling. Seems to me the ''terrorist'' angle is shamless lying for profit.

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