The Germs' Drummer Arrested For Carrying Soap 384
dwrugh writes "The drummer for the seminal punk band The Germs, Don Bolles, was arrested in Orange County because a field-test kit indicated his bottle of Dr. Bronner's soap contained GHB, the date-rape drug. (Here is an interview with Bolles.) Using the same test kit, available on the web for $20 for a pack of 10, according to Bolles' attorney on NBC this morning, other soaps tested positive for GHB. But of course since it's just soap, when you test it in a real crime lab it comes back negative. Makes you wonder what other common household products also test positive, and how many others have been arrested based on faulty test kits who didn't have the resources to defend themselves."
its Official... (Score:0, Insightful)
Do your job "editors" (Score:5, Insightful)
huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
We'll get to see more like this (Score:3, Insightful)
As long as the labs still use more reliable testing methods, it can at least be cleaned up later. I just hope this doesn't change at least.
Re:It's not a matter of resources... (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been stopped for a broken tail light in my country, and the police certainly did not use this as an excuse for searching my car. Is it usual in your country for people to be imprisoned for so long on so little evidence, after so minor a motoring offence?
Re:It's sort of like poppy seed bagels (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, so you cleared your name of being a drug user only to incriminate yourself as a copyright infringer... a crime far worse in todays legal framework.
A word of advice; once they catch up to you:
Don't drop the soap!
Huh? (Score:2, Insightful)
But of course since it's just soap, when you test it in a real crime lab it comes back negative. ...
how many others have been arrested based on faulty test kits who didn't have the resources to defend themselves.
You mean how many couldn't defend themselves before the lab cleared them?
Re:We'll get to see more like this (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems that the test kits are a lot less reliable than 99% in some environments which makes them useless.
In situations where the event is rare, the failure mode of the test will dominate the effectiveness of the action taken.
The same faulty thinking is common in anti-terrorism procedures. Actual terrorists are rare and almost every action taken to detect or prevent terrorist acts has a very high false positive rate that makes it useless for the purpose.
Re:Lexicon Devil (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Soap laced with GHB (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Do your job "editors" (Score:3, Insightful)
Test kit limitations (Score:4, Insightful)
Any police getting fooled like that, or even bother to test soap is either an idiot, hasn't even the most basic training in using the kit properly, or is trying to frame someone. (Possibly to get a more expansive search warrant. Assuming they still need one...)
Doesn't matter if this happened a couple weeks ago and the guy has been released. Kind of like getting arrested for being black in a Benz, and later released with no charges. That #### isn't supposed to happen in the first place and is a major issue. (To put it politely)
Re:Lexicon Devil (Score:2, Insightful)
But seriously, there are real, awesome punk bands out there now... but of course you have to look for them.
And some old-ish bands never broke up, like Raw Power and Gauze.
Re:It's not a matter of resources... (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, really? Are you SURE the sample is sent off to a lab?
I knew an inmate at Leavenworth who was contesting his conviction for several reasons - a search warrant with a "judge's" signature in the handwriting of the arresting officer was one reason. Another reason was the search warrant was based on confiscated material which was allegedly sent to a lab and identified as drugs.
Only the inmate contacted the lab - and the lab never heard of that case and said so in writing.
The inmate had a cheapo lawyer - which is about not having the resources to hire a good one. So he had to do the field work from prison that his lawyer should have done.
Re:Wait... (Score:4, Insightful)
No. Soaps just select out the weak germs. That's why hospitals are sources for extremely hardy strains of germs. So the soap just makes the remaining germs grow stronger, and not have to compete for resources with weaker germs. Evolution, baby, running full speed at a hospital near you.
Resolved?! (Score:4, Insightful)
otherwise it gets derailed when people get alarmed about the fact that somebody is sitting in jail right now for a mistake and then somebody (in this case me) has to come and point out that the whole thing has actually been resolved.
#1, I'm alarmed about the fact that he was arrested, period.
#2, I'm alarmed that these false positives have been happening for a while, and #3, that it is still presented as valid evidence in criminal cases despite knowledge that it has a high false positive rate. Follow-up tests should be automatic, not a matter of the defendant having money to pay for it.
How did the cop even get to the point of being able to search the car? Oh, cute. The old "broken taillight" routine:
Bolles, 51, was arrested on April 4 after being pulled over for having a broken brake light
The officer got permission to search the vehicle and a field test on a bottle of Dr. Bronner's Magic Soap showed positive for GHB, Sailor said.
Never, never, NEVER agree to a search of your vehicle. Say, "I'm sorry, officer, I do not consent to a search" [youtube.com], and if he says he's going to get a search warrant, LET HIM TRY. It's a scare tactic; if they had a legitimate, constitutional right to search you and your car, they already would have done so- and they certainly wouldn't need your permission.
Similarly, if you ARE stupid enough to allow a search (or they have a valid reason to search) and find something, SHUT UP. Don't say anything except, "I wish to speak to, and be represented by, an attorney." I don't care HOW much the cop says he'll "go easy" or who he'll "talk to". IT IS A LIE.
Re:Not exactly shocking for Orange County (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess now even the Sherriff is exercising Bill O'Reilly logic by ignoring the concept of presumed innocence, since the guy had not been convicted.
Re:We'll get to see more like this (Score:3, Insightful)
my what an interesting double standard.. innocent until proven guilty.. except in places of potential loss of life.. so if i accuse you of murder and youre wrongfully imprisoned it will be perfectly ok as long as i'm getting the murderers the other 99% of the time? enough of the "freedom for security" crap. freedom has a price, and the minute you start locking up innocents because of your fear of terrorism the terrorists have won.
as for danger explain to me how drugs (especially date rape drugs) are not deadlier than terrorism. There is no guarantee a bomb will kill you, and many of the "methodical" type serial killers will incapacitate their intended target in some way to prevent messes.
Re:Do your job "editors" (Score:5, Insightful)
Technically, you're correct. But mud sticks.
What if he wasn't a drummer with a band? What if he was an IT geek with a day job in a "respectable" office like a large percentage of
In many parts of the world, my guess is you'd come home from your short involuntary stint in prison to find yourself out of work with little hope of a reference or of redress. The police "acted properly" by arresting you when they thought you'd committed a crime, and released you when it became apparent you hadn't. Not their fault your employer dropped you like a hot potato.
What it does do is highlight that some of these tests need to be drastically improved.
Re:Best. Headline. Ever. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:We'll get to see more like this (Score:3, Insightful)
This isn't necessarily bad. You just need to use the right tool for the right job.
Imagine, you have three tests.
Test 1 is cheap and quick, but gives 1% false positives (almost no false negatives).
Test 2 is moderately priced and a bit bit slower, but gives
Test 3 is pricey and gives a turn-around time of 1 day, but gives
You're in charge of security. You care about letting innocent people free just as much as you care about punishing the guilty and you care about customer service, finances, and efficiency of processes. What do you do?
Your post seems to indicate that you'd use Test 3 or have no test at all, but one case is just throwing your hands up in the air and giving up while the other is just drowning your process in expensive bureaucracy, but neither are optimal strategies. A more optimal strategy is to use the following approach.
Use test 1.
If you pass, go on your merry way.
If you fail, you're not necessarily guilty of anything (this must be in the training manual) but you need more further testing, so use test 2.
If you pass, go on your merry way.
If you fail, you're not necessarily guilty of anything (this must be in the training manual) but you need more further testing, so use test 3.
If you pass, go on your merry way.
If you fail, you're not necessarily guilty of anything but let the police handle it to be sure.
Of course, if there are less than a
Re:IT topic? (Score:1, Insightful)
I prefer CORBA personally, but there's no accounting for taste.
Re:We'll get to see more like this (Score:3, Insightful)
>You're in charge of security. You care about letting innocent people free just as much as you care about punishing the guilty and you
>care about customer service, finances, and efficiency of processes. What do you do?
I hire people who are intelligent enough to realize that a substance saturated into Dr. Bronners' Soap is not going to be a very useful tool for assault. I also hire people who are responsible enough not to accuse someone of a crime (apparently the thoughtcrime of sexual assault, if you get down to it in this case).
Having failed to hire intelligent and responsible people, I expect to lose MY job, and possibly go to jail for the mistake. So this particular mistake does not get made on my watch.
The difference, I expect, is that the higher authorities have NOT stepped up and assertively accepted full responsibility for this error, the County has NOT made an offer of substantial compensation to the victim for the wrongful treatment, and the people who made this mistake remain in a position to make another one.
A false arrest should be so costly to the government that does it, that the taxpayers would never allow it to happen (or could never afford to let it happen twice.)
Looking for a reason to arrest. (Score:4, Insightful)
It's along the same lines as pulling someone over and asking the driver ten different times the basic question "Is it okay to search your car?" In progressively more confusing and convoluted ways because all the driver has to do is slip up once. Then the cop can get on with his job of figuring out what you're guilty of.
It's like developing a field test for explosives and then being able to arrest someone because their gasoline tank tested positive for highly flammable material.
Re:Do your job "editors" (Score:1, Insightful)
1) The story only claims that he was arrested, which is still correct, and is not inconsistent with being released.
2) "This person's situation has been totally resolved" is categorically false. Spending three days in jail for no reason doesn't get resolved when the victim is released, just as an assault isn't resolved because the perp stops attacking someone.
Re:It's not a matter of resources... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Do your job "editors" (Score:3, Insightful)
You mean, you're not really outraged when someone else is falsely arrested.
If you were falsely arrested, I bet you'd be extremely outraged.
Re:Pop punk (Score:2, Insightful)
Truthfulness to cultural history actually requires one to refer to nowadays' pseudo punk by language clearly distinguishing it from the original.