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Ex-judge Gets 27 Months on Evidence From Hacked PC 610

netbsd_fan writes "A former California judge has been sentenced to 27 months in prison for possession of illegal pornography, based entirely on evidence gathered by an anonymous vigilante script kiddie in Canada. At any given time he was monitoring over 3,000 innocent people. The anonymous hacker says, "I would stay up late at night to see what I could drag out of their computers, which turned out to be more than I expected. I could read all of their e-mails without them knowing. As far as they were concerned, they didn't know their e-mails had even been opened. I could see who they were chatting with and read what they were saying as they typed."
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Ex-judge Gets 27 Months on Evidence From Hacked PC

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  • by OeLeWaPpErKe ( 412765 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:21AM (#18106240) Homepage
    Because obviously the hacker is guilty of more crimes than that judge

    -> clear violation of privacy of thousands of people
    -> use of that information for private gain
    -> passing off vigilante-collected information to the police
    -> (plus or minus) collecting that same porn

    All this obviously without a court order, or even being in the police force.

    This is also seriously worse than the riaa has ever done. So what should the punishment for the hacker be ? Clearly he cannot go free, despite having caught this criminal.
  • protect children (Score:3, Insightful)

    by viking80 ( 697716 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:21AM (#18106244) Journal
    So he is giving out child porn with a Trojan Horse embedded, and then illegally trespassing onto the (3000) infected computers.

    This sounds about as bad as it can get.

    From the article:
    "He... ignored police threats that if he didn't stop he'd be arrested for breaching privacy"

    I guess since "His motives was always to protect children who can't protect themselves", it is all ok.
  • by MichaelSmith ( 789609 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:23AM (#18106250) Homepage Journal

    And why the script kiddie isn't in jail? Spying and breaking the privacy of many thousands of people (the blurb suggests it was way more than 3000) isn't something to shake a stick at.

    Once the ex-judge's computer had been hacked by "some guy" the state of that system should be considered to be tainted. Who's to say that Brad Willman wasn't using that system as a proxy?

  • by Dasher42 ( 514179 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:24AM (#18106270)
    RTFA - he wrote a script that displayed an image that the users had already downloaded to their hard drive and circulated it where pedophiles gathered.

    Still very shady legally, and you can't have a society where people just trespass for whatever reason. However, he did very intelligently target it and accomplished a good thing. He was a better man than those that make us have laws, and that says something. At least, so far.
  • by antiphoton ( 821735 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:29AM (#18106296)
    Not to mention having access to 3000 other innocent people's systems including police and military personal. Not only that, but he could also view any email correspondence by that judge, which could have included sensitive court material.

    While his actions are most likely altruistic, he should be punished for his deeds and then be enlisted by some the Canadian police and do it legally.

  • by MSTCrow5429 ( 642744 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:31AM (#18106320)
    I'd toss out the conviction of the judge based on an illegal search and seizure, prosecute the hacker through the DCMCA and general wire-tapping laws, and allow the judge to file a civil suit for property invasion. You can't spy on everyone possible where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy to see if they might be doing something illegal. You need a search warrant when American citizens are involved. So while breaking and entering into the judge's computer and finding data contraband, who knows what personal details of other people's lives, financial data, credit card numbers, etc. that this criminal has gathered while repeatedly breaking and entering into other people's property. I can't trespass into your home to see if you have drugs or child porn or what have you. Even if I find something illegal, I've already broken into your home and searched it top from bottom, without your knowledge, consent, or a search warrant, and I've broken into thousands of other houses and found nothing. This is the same thing; the hacker is a one-man brownshirt, with no respect for the rule of law or due process.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:33AM (#18106330)
    One of these days, what I would like to do is make some sort of super-virus. Something that is ridiculously infectious, multi-vector, polymorphic, all the tricks. I'm a pretty good programmer, I'm sure I could come up with something pretty good.

    What this virus would do is infect as many computers as it could, and then implement some kind of basic bittorrent protocol, and download GIGS of child porn onto every single computer it touched. Thousands of images. Thousands of videos. The more the better.

    Maybe then, and only then, we'd see an end to this type of case - destroying an otherwise harmless old man's life just because he had some fricking images on his HD. I don't know how Americans can keep a straight face when we say we favour free speech on one hand, but on the other we can talk about "illegal pornography" .. what a fucking joke. Free speech is free speech is free speech and if an image CAN be illegal then we do NOT HAVE FREE SPEECH. And I don't even LIKE kiddie porn. It's the pure fucking principle.

    So, watch out for this virus, if I ever do make it. I might call it "Ashcroft" ...
  • by d_jedi ( 773213 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:35AM (#18106342)
    The "hacker" should be punished. Out of the 3000 or so systems he has infected with his trojan.. how many have contained illegal content? Why has he not been charged for violating the privacy/tresspassing/etc. for (at least) those whose computers are "clean"?
  • by zakezuke ( 229119 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:39AM (#18106370)
    And how the fuck you can convince someone on evidence that got obtained in an illegal way?

    Well... just because evidence was gathered illegaly doesn't mean it can't be admited. IANAL but I seem to recall provisions in the law for this. If you are law enforcement... then they are obligated to obey certain rules of conduct. On the other hand, ordinary citizens are not required to. I also seem to recall the fact that wiretaps cross boarders are totally admissible... at least according to moaning canadians who were concerned over the US gathering evidence via illegal wiretaps back in 2000 or so. While I disagree with this practice for matters not related to national security, America seemed to have opened a can of words with a double edged sword.

    Now... dispite the fact that the ex-judge was spyed with kiddy porn, something which is a huge no no, I believe that the regular laws of telephony devices should apply. I feel that this should be considered to be an illegal wiretap. Good intentions or not it's as serious a violation of privacy as tapping someone's telephone.

  • by mwvdlee ( 775178 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:40AM (#18106376) Homepage
    The hacker could have just as easily uploaded the 3,000 pictures to the judge's computer.
    Is this type of evidence really admissable? It's not like the hacker can be trusted, after all he DID illegally hack into computers. Perhaps it was his intent to incriminate somebody. He was able to monitor a large number of computers and it just happenned to be an ex-judge's computer that had the pictures? It may be true, but it's a damn big coincidence.
  • by DoktorTomoe ( 643004 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:47AM (#18106400)
    You scare me ... you know, first this is against kiddie porn, then terrorism, and in a not all-too-far future, it is for the war on tax evasion or for finding that Bittorrent files you have...

    There should be limits on what can be done legally. And that script kiddie should be jailed, too.
  • by Don_dumb ( 927108 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:47AM (#18106402)
    Then you can be sure there are one hundred doing it for ill.

    But similar to what posters earlier have pointed out - How can we solely trust a trojan writer? How do we know that the hacker didn't simply set people up? Once he had taken control of their computers he could have planted the files himself.
    Not to mention the fact that he must have broken into a great many innocent people's computers and read their emails. I wonder if they will be so happy of the methods that this superhero used.

    If he knew the places pedophiles frequent, why didn't he just forward that info to the authorities, he can't claim that they weren't putting enough effort into fighting child pornography.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:49AM (#18106412)
    This idiot thought he was doing the authorities a favor by finding evidence of what he saw as wrongdoing.

    To do this he broke into systems and spied without a warrant, probable cause, or any authority whatsoever. Most of the people he did this to were innocent, but in any case the 'evidence' he found cannot be used to prosecute with. I doubt if he has much concept of the 'chain of evidence' anyway, so it will be inadmissable for all sorts of reasons.

    'Never mind', you say, 'he has gained valuable intelligence. The authorities can mount a raid later and do things properly'.

    But by his own admission these target machines have been hacked by a person anxious to 'find' kiddyporn distributors and users. Surely this makes ANYTHING on that system suspect thereafter? When accused, all the judge has to do is claim that he has never seen these photos before, and they must have been placed there by the hacker. Indeed, from TFA I think that is a credible possibility.

    Not only has this idiot committed a nasty computer crime by hacking into innocent people's machines, he has messed up the possibilities of any future prosecution of people who may or may not have been involved in an actual crime.

    {irony}
    Of course, the above is only going by the Constitution. Everyone knows that nowadays the rule of law is suspended whenever:

    Patriotism is mentioned
    Children are mentioned
    Global Warming is mentioned
    Security is mentioned
    Road Safety is mentioned ....... .......

    {end irony}

  • by anagama ( 611277 ) <obamaisaneocon@nothingchanged.org> on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:50AM (#18106420) Homepage
    Yes you are missing something. How did the kid know that the pictures were child-porn? From the names? By just taking a flying guess that they were? Unlikely. Chances are he viewed them. Obviously, he didn't break into people's homes and sit at their machines. He did this remotely. This means the data streamed across the net and landed in his computer and then was displayed on his screen. So yes, vigilante also possessed the child-porn, at least for a moment or two.
  • by bersl2 ( 689221 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:51AM (#18106432) Journal
    You have to have a copy of the information at some point, and AFAIK no program can determine whether an image is child pr0n or not, so whoever blew the whistle saw the images. I don't know the exact language of the applicable laws is, but I'm sure it's got some questionable elements---both ways, too. The meaning of "to have" is just too hazy a concept when it comes to digital information.
  • He's found a judge with child porn on his computer. This judge will hire a competent defense attorney who will argue that Willman put all of the images there. After all, Willman had complete access to the machine, by his own admission. "Willman is a lone wacko who's obsessed by child porn," the attorney will argue.

    And every single child pornographer he's uncovered will do the same. Many of them will get away with it, and precedent will be set.

    There's a reason why we have search laws. Willman has now tainted the evidence in thousands of child porn cases, by his own admission. That's pretty much the definition of "well meaning idiot."
  • by erroneus ( 253617 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:57AM (#18106458) Homepage
    ... if someone hacks your network to 'gain evidence' the counter-claim should be that the hacking was done to PLANT evidence. Force an end to the assault on your freedom and your character before the struggle itself becomes your downfall.

    Reasonable doubt then has a good chance to keeping you free. If evidence is not properly gathered from the very beginning, how can proof beyond a reasonable doubt ever be presented?

    This guy copped a plea, though, so much of the background is moot at this point. But I have seen many other cases (typically surrounding divorce where the woman would like to secure custody of children and such) where people's lives had been ruined on the basis of an accusation that could not be defended easily enough. As the article shows, this guy's whole life fell apart during all of this and while the resources of the prosecution are unlimited, the resources of the accused deteriorated and suffocated while he defended against the charges.

    We, the public, will never know the full truth of this. A confession after all the strife he faced is nothing short of coerced and tainted.
  • by Elemenope ( 905108 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @05:00AM (#18106480)

    Not only that, but he could also view any email correspondence by that judge, which could have included sensitive court material.

    Show me a judge who handles sensitive court correspondence by e-mail and I'll show you a judge I dearly want to smack in the face really, really hard.

    he should be punished for his deeds and then be enlisted by some the Canadian police and do it legally

    I wouldn't find it at all more comforting that the guy who has the job (self-appointed or not) trolling through private e-mails has a badge. Wouldn't that make him *more* dangerous to the average privacy-loving John Q. Whatever?

  • by kestasjk ( 933987 ) * on Thursday February 22, 2007 @05:01AM (#18106486) Homepage
    What I want to know is where do you draw the line when it comes to taking down child molesters?

    Whenever a politician wants to push some privacy invading law he has only to utter the magic words "kiddie porn" and there's no rebuttal. If a hacker invades your privacy and reads your e-mail that's terrible; unless he suspects you're a child molester, in which case he's a "hero".

    One of the funniest, most well adjusted people I know was molested at six; it doesn't scar you for life, a savage beating from bullies just might though. Why do we practically encourage bullying but go to any lengths to stop child molesters?

    Obviously here I have to clarify my stance, or people will start taking out their pitchforks.. Child molestation and kiddie porn is revolting, but what about getting stabbed? What about being forced to take addictive drugs and prostitute yourself to earn them? What about privacy?
    No-one in power has the guts to say "we're going too far", because then they'll be labeled as a sympathizer.

    What about the child prostitutes that everyone knows about, but won't donate money to build good orphanages to put them in? We go to any lengths to stop the abuse of children, unless it costs us money. If Brett is such a anti-child molester hero why not get a job, and donate money to take kids off the streets?
    Because Brett just wants an excuse to get a rush from "hacking" (ie installing a trojan on gullible users computers, the nirvana of incredible hacks). He's just like loads of other "hacktivists"; working and donating money just isn't as exciting.


    I'm not saying the evidence shouldn't be counted, but I do think calling Brett a "hero" for reading thousands of peoples e-mails for years on end is absurd.
    Out of those thousands of people were any of them not child molesters? I'm guessing the majority weren't, since he has only a couple of arrests attributed to him. Would you call Brett a hero if you were one of the people he had been monitoring for years? Personally I'd want to lodge the end of my boot up his asshole.
  • Not YRO? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 22, 2007 @05:02AM (#18106498)
    I'm surprised this wasn't "YRO" based on the usual Slashdot liberal bias (AKA. fired IBM employee deprived of "rights" to view pornography on company dollar).

    Logical, since you have *no right* in the first place to view child pornography in this country in the first place.

    Que the next YRO article, where someone claims the "right" to commit a crime. Go call ACLU/PETA/NMBLA.
  • by PoopDaddy ( 1064616 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @05:05AM (#18106518)
    Like just last week - I robbed a bank at gunpoint, but I gave the money to an orphanage so it's totally fine. It's all about the kids.
  • by Jackie_Chan_Fan ( 730745 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @05:17AM (#18106574)
    In the big picture of things, If he didnt touch a child... is he really guilty of anything?

    The hacker could have placed the pictures there...

    I think this is way too shady.

    Even if they were his pictures... isnt it a thought crime?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 22, 2007 @05:21AM (#18106596)
    What the fuck is "internet lingo"? There are a lot of people who have been using the internet a lot longer than you, and yet they do not talk like retards. Imagine that.
  • by Jah-Wren Ryel ( 80510 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @05:41AM (#18106670)

    Isn't the hacker in legal trouble for downloading the same 3,000 pictures? (How else did he know the content was illegal?) He had to download them to his computer to view them, thereby committing the same crime as the guy he outed.
    Not only that, but the description of the guy sounds like he could easily be in denial and attempting to compensate for it by going all out in the reverse direction -- in the same way that so many fire-and-brimstone anti-gay preachers and politicians turn out to be exactly what they hate the most.

    Of course it could just be the reporter exaggerating for effect.

    Either way, here's the relevant part of the second article:

    Dubbed "Citizen Tipster" by police, Brad Willman, spent night after night writing a Trojan Horse program that gave him complete control over every computer that downloaded it.

    Alone and in the dark, he sat for up to 16 hours a day monitoring hundreds of targets, secretly reading their e-mail and tracking their every step online.

    He started keeping files on the targeted users. He tracked them for almost three years --recording everything. The majority of his targets were ordinary people -- but some in the files included priests, social workers, soldiers, police officers and justice officials.

    He catalogued each file by degree of risk and focused on suspected child-porn producers and molesters.

    This was his life. He had no friends in school and skipped the prom. Even these days, his only entertainment away from the computer is going to the odd movie, alone.

    The son of a coffee shop owner, Mr. Willman, a.k.a. Omni-Potent, finds if hard to socialize and rarely answers the telephone. He can only be himself online -- staring at the screen and chewing sour candies.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 22, 2007 @05:43AM (#18106680)
    I could come up with more. The first time I got asked if I wanted to get a "pipe" (fellatio) for a twenty (euro) it was revolting and I went at length to the police and phone to infancy protection. Apparently for nothing : 6 Monthes after I saw the same kid (I think it was her) a bit older and a bit more "thin".

    You WHERE might sound funny to people not being confronted to child prostitution, but once you get asked if you want sex favor from a 12 year old your life is not the same afterward, and you tend to see the world with darker shade of gray. And it is even worst when you realize that you cannot do much.
  • LOTF (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tom ( 822 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @06:00AM (#18106744) Homepage Journal
    Welcome to the Land Of The Free, where you can be locked up for two years for looking at pictures.

    Yeah, mod me flamebait because I didn't think of the chiiiiildren. It's still a fact that we yell and cry about the horrors of tyranny if people are forbidden from reading any book they like, but in our own culture people don't have the freedom to look at any pictures they like. And there are cases where people have been sentenced for child porn that was created digitially, with no actual childs harmed.
  • by ObsessiveMathsFreak ( 773371 ) <obsessivemathsfreak.eircom@net> on Thursday February 22, 2007 @06:02AM (#18106752) Homepage Journal

    I'm not saying the evidence shouldn't be counted, but I do think calling Brett a "hero" for reading thousands of peoples e-mails for years on end is absurd.

    I think the evidence shouldn't be counted. It was obtained illegally, by a vigilante. What kind of a precedent are we setting here. That some self righteous group of private citizens will take it upon themselves to police everyone else. There's a recipe for disaster if ever there was one.

    Brett isn't a hero. He's a zealot. A criminal zealot. I don't care how may witches^Dpedophiles may or may not walk free. Frankly I will trust the pedophile before I trust vigilantes, because at least with the pedophiles you know where they stand.

    Vigilantes are just hungry for blood and power. Guilt, innocence and even the crime itself are secondary concerns to them.
  • by bky1701 ( 979071 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @06:02AM (#18106756) Homepage

    Traditional law enforcement is powerless against this kinda stuff.
    For good reason. In fact, it's insane for this to be legal for ANYONE. I mean, some not-so-legit group of people may go and hire some kids to get some dirt on people they don't like (or plant it, if so needed) and then submit it as proof when it shouldn't have been legal to take in the first place.

    I know it's hard for the thinofthechildren masses to comprehend it, but there is a reason there are limitations to what the police can do, and they are not "those commies hate kids!"
  • by ObsessiveMathsFreak ( 773371 ) <obsessivemathsfreak.eircom@net> on Thursday February 22, 2007 @06:04AM (#18106766) Homepage Journal

    Still very shady legally, and you can't have a society where people just trespass for whatever reason. However, he did very intelligently target it and accomplished a good thing. He was a better man than those that make us have laws, and that says something. At least, so far.

    He's an informer of the worst kind. What's the difference between this guy and people who spied on their neighbours for the gestapo and stasi? He did it for the children? Keep telling yourself that when your frienda and neighbours start getting hauled away on fantasy charges.
  • Re:Waits for it.. (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 22, 2007 @06:13AM (#18106820)
    Hey moron... try reading the article.

    They searched his work computer also and found a crap load of child porn. The hacker only had access to his home computer.

    Dumbass.
  • by vic-traill ( 1038742 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @06:15AM (#18106832)

    Obviously here I have to clarify my stance, or people will start taking out their pitchforks.

    No pitchforks here. I agree with you - when the accusation includes anything at all similar to 'kiddie porn', the high moral ground has been occupied, and it seems like everything else goes out the windows

    Glad to see the ex-judge busted, but wouldn't trust the kid as far as I can throw him. He weirds me out at least as much as the judge.

    I mean, you can't argue the result here. But the method sure creeps me out. By focusing on child porn images, this dude gets to stalk 3000 people. And he does is by distributing a trojan, and manually reviewing the material on target computers.

    The alt.comp.virus FAQ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/computer-virus/alt-faq/pa rt3/ [faqs.org] references a backgrounder on the legalities of computer crime. It's venerable (1998), so I don't know to what extent the author's assertions are still accurate, but he is pretty clear: Distributing a virus affecting computers used substantially by the government or financial institutions is a federal crime under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. So if this had ended up on a qualifying computer, the kid would (should) have been busted. Furthermore, Most states have statutes that make it a crime to intentionally interfere with a computer system. These statutes will often cover viruses as well as other forms of computer crime.

    The referenced document can be found at http://www.loundy.com/E-LAW/E-Law4-full.html#VII [loundy.com] in Section D.

    As well, if the judge hadn't admitted the journal in question was his, and disclaimed knowledge of the images, how far could they have gotten with this prosecution? The kid admits distributing a trojan, how far is it from there to distributing material? I think a defence lawyer could have a field day with this, but IANAL, just another guy with an opinion.

  • by master_p ( 608214 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @06:18AM (#18106850)
    But he did not download those porn images for his viewing pleasure. He exposed the case...and therefore he can not be blamed for viewing illegal porn images.
  • by bxbaser ( 252102 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @06:25AM (#18106880)
    And whatever else he did that was illegal.
    The end doesnt justify the means.
    How many of the 3000 where innocent ?
  • by Chmcginn ( 201645 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @06:28AM (#18106896) Journal

    You WHERE might sound funny to people not being confronted to child prostitution, but once you get asked if you want sex favor from a 12 year old your life is not the same afterward, and you tend to see the world with darker shade of gray.

    The world is a crappy place. If you need to come face-to-face with it for it to sink in, then you do - but a lot of people don't. But making jokes about it is some people's way of dealing with it - if you can't make fun of something, you're probably taking it too seriously anyway.

  • by computational super ( 740265 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @06:30AM (#18106904)

    What I find most disturbing is that this isn't discussed anywhere except Slashdot (which seems to be split about 50/50 on the issue of whether there should be one set of laws and standards for KP and one set of laws for "everything else"). Consider the outrage and public debate that the Patriot act sparked in the US - everybody had an opinion, it was debated to death (although it did pass), and will undoubtedly be one of the primary focii of the 2008 election. What about the PROTECT act that had been successfully used to prosecute posession of drawings? No debate. No discussion. No concern. Anywhere.

    This means that either the 50% of /. that finds this line of reasoning irrational is completely insane or (more likely) the fear of being seen as a sympathizer is so great that nobody risks talking about it - not even the die-hard civil libertarians.

  • by gd23ka ( 324741 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @06:48AM (#18106978) Homepage
    Sex with children is yet another sickening fact of life that goes back for
    thousands of yearsand will still be around long after the internet is gone.
    Sadly child molestation is not even by far the worst thing to happen
    to a child. War and starvation are what KILL hundreds of thousands
    of children each year(!), and do speak to that little african girl
    who had her right leg blown away if she'd rather stripped and danced
    naked in front of dirty old men than step on that Made in U.S.A
    land mine. Talk of old men abusing children, that little girl had
    a virtual sit on Donald Rumsfeld's abusive lap instead.

    That's as far as the hubris here is concerned, now how about the
    civil liberties angle. Here we have the "Uuuuh, uuuh it's for the
    children"angle yet again but what is next? Does our sociophobic
    sour drop gobbling citizen vigilante get to break into our homes
    next and search them forillegal substances? Does he get the right to
    assault me on a street and go through my pockets??
  • by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @06:50AM (#18106986) Journal

    The trojan was spread through usenet in specific pedofile newsgroups. Downloading an image file (wich is how the trojan was diguised) from such a group is NOT something an innocent person would do. Downloading childporn is a crime in most of the western world. End of story. If you download a file from such a group then you are apparently willing to commit a crime.

    Oh yeah, "innocent" until proven guilty. Well by that logic the police makes a habbit about arresting innocent people all the time.

    There is in the west the idea of a fair trial. I think the mistake made here is that some people think that means fair as in fairplay. The way that in golf a better player should handicap himself to make the game "fair" to a lesser player.

    It does not mean that. Instead it means fair as in honest. No false evidence, a chance to defend oneself and such. At no time does it mean that the police should have to handicap itself to give a criminal a chance to get out of a conviction.

    The problem is that it is hard to do this. We don't want the police constantly being able to search just anyone and anything they like BUT the countermeasure does lead to criminals using their so called right to privacy to hide evidence. THAT was not the idea but it is the sideeffect.

    Privacy is there to protect the innocent NOT the guilty. Sadly it is impossible to have one without the other.

    But it is still hard for me not to cheer this guy on. No I don't enjoy the idea of me being snooped upon just because I downloaded something innocent (the trojan was after all NOT real childporn) BUT this guy did get a man arrested who put his 8yr old daughter up for use by pedofiles. (another case mentioned in the article that this guy uncovered)

    I am sorry, but that overrules a lot of privacy concerns for me. I am that most rare of slashdot readers. A middle of the roader. A moderate. I believe that communist, capatilists and liberals are ALL wrong. Their ideas are based on the idea that humans are perfect in one way or another when they are not.

    This guy showed us that our rules of privacy and allowed methods of police investigation allow very serious criminals to go undetected and unpunished.

    You might say that you consider your privacy to be worth the sale of a 8yr old girl. I do not. Maybe I am damned for that to live in a police state. But what is the alternative? A free society OR something much worse then a police state?

    Look at russia, they went from a police state but I don't think they are exactly living in a free society either.

    We should use this case as an eye-opener. Clearly there is a gap between the type of crimes commited and what the police is allowed to detect. If the police had been allowed to use this guy's methods how many pedofiles might have been arrested who are now still free to commit their crimes?

    On the other hand, how much of our private lifes would we all have to give up to make this possible?

    It is balancing issue and at the moment I think the balance favors the criminals too much. Consider this,"the innocent may have somethign to fear from the police, but they certainly have something to fear from criminals the police cannot touch".

  • by CmdrGravy ( 645153 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @06:56AM (#18107010) Homepage
    Far from being a hero I think this is one very sad individual who is very clearly breaking the law and motivated primarily by a desire to spy on people.

    He should be locked up for whats done already and to put a stop to his creepy voyueristic behaviour once and for all.
  • by 1u3hr ( 530656 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @07:03AM (#18107048)
    Give him a pass for hacking the judge. Prosecute him for hacking the other 2999 people. Self-righteous busy body he is. Of course, the 2999 people will all be too afraid to make a fuss, as they'll be branded as pedophiles.
  • by CmdrGravy ( 645153 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @07:19AM (#18107092) Homepage
    I couldn't agree more, I only rob banks which I'm fairly sure are using illegal accounting practices and I only rob old ladies houses where I'm sure they're harbouring some dirty secret.

    Fair enough I'm also doing it for my own enjoyment but if at the end of day I rob 3000 old ladies and happen to find one who can be prosecuted for the crimes I've uncovered than I agree thats absolutely fair enough.
  • US of A (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 22, 2007 @07:23AM (#18107112)
    The age of marriage in some US states is as low as 12 years. So, legally, a father can give his daughter to another guy to do with as he pleases. Never mind that the media and culture even glorify 12 year olds looking like 21 year old prostitutes.

    Age of consent and marriage laws need serious rethinking the world over. But the schizophrenic approach currently practiced in the US is not the way to go.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 22, 2007 @07:31AM (#18107142)
    I completely agree that it doesn't necessarily scar people for life. My wife was molested from the time she was ~5 until she was nearly 15, and she is very well adjusted. We now have a child of our own and a happy marriage as well as a healthy sex life. I know for a fact that I get more upset thinking about it then she does. It's a terrible thing to happen, but people can overcome it and unless she told you it happened nobody would have any idea that she'd had such a disgusting thing happen to her for 10 years.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 22, 2007 @07:52AM (#18107234)
    It's beautiful, isn't it? The masses are doing very little to protect children from that sort of filth, and they're patting themselves on the backs for it. Contrary to the popular belief that "getting tough" is going to solve the problem is the massive body of evidence that it won't.

    Making a thing illegal and getting tough on it has never solved the problem any more than drilling holes in peoples' heads cured mental illness. The way to deal with this and the majority of problems is from a logical, measured, and scientific approach. Here's a couple of things to consider:

    1. What aspects of our current social arrangement allow these problems (exploitation of other humans in the numerous forms it takes)?

    2. Would we be better off to actually spend resources to study the problem?

    3. How do people become that way?

    4. If/how can we stop that from happening and/or detect them early on and/or fix them?

    When subjects like this come up we're faced with this overwhelming emotional response that we choose to cloud or judgment rather than face the reality. We explain this away as all-too-human and bask in it. Just read comments online or talk to people about cases involving crimes of passion or the various incidents of parents (generally fathers) murdering molesters and abusers. The majority of reactions are "I'd do that too."

    While I can understand that reaction and the comments that support it, they fail to engage the brain and understand the implications of such things. Which brings me back to the initial point, which is that the attitude the majority of the world holds towards crime is ultimately counterproductive and self-destructive. We owe it to the past victims and to the children and to ourselves to actually solve the problem rather than merely seeking vengeance.

    When someone is abused it may as well be us or those that are dear to us. We should be less concerned with adding equal or greater suffering to the life that caused the pain as finding a way to understand why that pain was caused and constructing a world where less pain is possible. It's the old 'do you not destroy your enemy if you make him your friend?' situation where by eradicating a mental disorder that allows for abuse and exploitation we effectively destroy all child predators and their ilk.

    I'm sick to death of "think of the children" assholes that are so damned blind with their emotions to recognize they're not solving a goddamned thing and that more kids will be harmed because they're too fucking slow on the uptake to actually set things right.

    Sorry, I know this got a little bit repetitive.
  • by bjourne ( 1034822 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @08:05AM (#18107282) Homepage Journal
    Not only that, but he could also view any email correspondence by that judge, which could have included sensitive court material.

    Show me a judge who handles sensitive court correspondence by e-mail and I'll show you a judge I dearly want to smack in the face really, really hard.


    Quite a few companies use internal mail servers to handle sensitive material. As long as the emails are not routed through public mail relays on the internet, there is nothing wrong with it.
  • Rule of Thumb (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rodney dill ( 631059 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @08:32AM (#18107402) Journal
    Never put anything in writing you wouldn't want your mother to read.
  • by Evanisincontrol ( 830057 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @09:16AM (#18107666)

    "iLingo"


    Cue Apple copyright infringement lawsuit in

    5... 4... 3...
  • by Dogtanian ( 588974 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @09:24AM (#18107712) Homepage

    One of these days, what I would like to do is make some sort of super-virus. Something that is ridiculously infectious, multi-vector, polymorphic, all the tricks. I'm a pretty good programmer, I'm sure I could come up with something pretty good.
    You may be a good programmer, but- assuming you meant even half of what you said- you're clearly not a very smart person overall. What sort of person would announce their intent to do this on a public website?

    And you're even more stupid if you're relying on posting as an AC to protect your identity.

    So, watch out for this virus, if I ever do make it. I might call it "Ashcroft" ...
    In Soviet America, Ashcroft calls *you*!!!!..... most likely to say "You're busted, dumbass" (*1).

    Which will be shortly after they subpoena Slashdot and track you down via your IP... assuming Slashdot would want to protect the identity of someone who wrote such a virus anyway.

    destroying an otherwise harmless old man's life just because he had some fricking images on his HD.
    Uh, no. From one of the articles: "After reading the judge's electronic diary, he concluded it showed an apparent plot to sexually exploit young boys at a private health club.".

    You *might* just about have been able to put forward a plausible argument regarding the level of damage caused by someone who solely looks at photos. And that only stands up in the absence of *any* any form of payment- or even other forms of encouragement- to others who *create* such material. But neither applies to the "harmless old man" you describe.

    I don't know how Americans can keep a straight face when we say we favour free speech on one hand, but on the other we can talk about "illegal pornography"
    (Disclaimer: I am not an American). Are you talking about hardcore pornography between consenting adults (which I have nothing against) or child pornography? If the latter, are you claiming that "free speech" should extend towards material whose consumption supports the molestation of children? Seriously?

    It's the pure fucking principle.
    No, it's pure fucking stupidity.

    (*1) Yeah, I know it's out-of-date and improbable. But I couldn't resist, sorry :-)
  • if i said to you:

    "Welcome to the Land Of The Free, where you can be locked up for two years for driving your car."

    that sounds downright awful, right? except i neglected to add that the guy locked up for driving his car was DRUNK. do you think that bit of information changes the situation?

    so you go:

    "Welcome to the Land Of The Free, where you can be locked up for two years for looking at pictures."

    damn, what an evil place! ..."pictures of naked children"

    oh... i think that changes things a bit

    by cutting out key bits of information in your words, you are creating what is called propaganda: half-truths, only looking at half of the situation in order to inflame passions

    the idea of justice is all about connecting actions with consequences. therefore, it is antithetical to the pursuit of justice or morality to try to take subsets of a situation, to look at only some actions and consequences, and ignore others. then you aren't concerned with right or wrong anymore, you're concerned with manipulating dumb emotion: propaganda

    so to ignore, for example, the creation of th child pornography, and only focus your opinion on the consumption of the child pornography means that at best, you've made a half-assed attempt at rationalization, and at worst, you're a propagandizer (engaging in half truths, ignoring half of the situation, ignoring the larger context of creating and consuming child pornography)

    i think a lot of people's criticisms of the bush administration, for example, and the approach on the iraq war, focused on their manipulation of the truth of the iraqi regime and their supposed WMD. it was a classic propaganda campaign by the bush administration to manipulate public opinion and inflame their fear post-9/11

    so congratulations: you've established your credentials for getting a job with the bush administration's war machine

    you operate the same way they do

    you're a propagandizer
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 22, 2007 @10:01AM (#18107972)
    Most of us, and that is MOST, agree that it's a good thing for pedophiles to be put in jail. We agree on that, so there's no reason to discuss it. The questions that this article bring up are more than just the pedophelia. First of all, someone guilty of viewing those same pictures was the one turning people in. He used a trojan, which could have given him enough power to plant evidence. We have no guarentee that due process of law is actually working; it may be that every one of those people was actually set up.

    I'm going to quote Penn Jillete when I say that, "As a society, I would hope that we would do better than I would do alone in that situation." Yes, if I were involved in one of those cases, I would want them all put away forever. But we have to be rational, and look at the consequences of our actions. If we allow this kind of thing, we open the doors for all kinds of corruption, and that can send innocent people to jail in the future, even if it helps us catch one guilty person now. So we have to draw a line, because if you're charged, even if you're innocent, this kind of thing can ruin your entire life.
  • Re:Waits for it.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by 'nother poster ( 700681 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @10:02AM (#18107984)
    Yeah. Too bad the real legal system in the U.S. doesn't take its que from T.V. shows. Then everyone could be a legal expert.
  • by SpeedyG5 ( 762403 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @10:04AM (#18108002) Homepage
    Because the minute the "Police" or "Government" hire someone or compensate or even endorse the action they become an agent of the government and so are then held to the 4th amendment. Until then the "someone" in question may be violating your civil rights etc. but they are NOT violating your 4th amendment rights nor could they.

    The amendment applies to only the government; it does not guarantee to people the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures conducted by private citizens or organizations. More specifically, the Bill of Rights only restricts the power of the federal government
  • by Jare ( 790431 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @10:31AM (#18108236) Homepage
    A pedophile is caught and goes to jail? Good. A hacker violates the privacy of thousands of people, spies on them, and gets away as a hero? Bad. Compromising our rights to authority-supervised investigation and due process? Very bad. Getting dirty in the name of justice destroys the very freedoms you were trying to protect. I'm sorry, but 1 pedophile in jail is not worth waiving my right to privacy. There's no grey there, it's crystal clear. I don't accept your attempt to take the moral high ground.
  • by jedidiah ( 1196 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @10:42AM (#18108322) Homepage
    Seems like a dangerous little loophole that's just asking to be exploited.

    Judges should be brighter than that.
  • Real world example (Score:3, Insightful)

    by grahamsz ( 150076 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @10:45AM (#18108350) Homepage Journal
    What is a burgler breaks into your house and finds a stash of kiddie porn which he the reports, or perhaps a body in the freezer.

    The intent is different but the end result is that one illegal act is uncovered during a less illegal one. Usually they let the lesser act slide, although there's still 2999 people that were hacked and I can't see why they'd let the hacker walk on those charges.
  • Re:Waits for it.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by teflaime ( 738532 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @10:47AM (#18108364)
    It's still illegally collected evidence and should have been excluded. Also, the "anonymous" hacker should have been sought out for prosecution. Hacking is still illegal, no matter the aim, when done without the knowledge of the hackee.
  • by MBGMorden ( 803437 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @10:51AM (#18108408)
    In those cases they viewed the material that was on the perp's hard drive - they didn't download it.

    That's irrelevant though, and I think you're missing the point: the guy who did this WAS NOT a cop, and has none of the legal protections that they do. He gets cut no slack to "uphold the law" because he is not charged with doing so, nor is he legally allowed to enforce it.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 22, 2007 @10:53AM (#18108434)
    Frankly, you're full of shit. I really wish you "experts" would do some actual research here, instead of relying on that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach.
  • Re:Waits for it.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by H8X55 ( 650339 ) <jason...r...thomas@@@gmail...com> on Thursday February 22, 2007 @11:07AM (#18108568) Homepage Journal
    So what keeps a cop from going rogue, lying, cheating and stealing in order to gather information and then submit said 'dirt' under an anonymous handle?
  • by KenshoDude ( 1001993 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @11:21AM (#18108752)

    When contemplating the balance between preserving privacy and enforcing the law, I think its best to reflect on a brilliant quote by Nietzsche: "He who fights with monsters should take care lest he thereby become a monster." The fact that some people can tolerate, and even worse commendate the actions of a vigilante is appalling. Two wrongs have never made a right, except in the minds of those who believe in a perverted sense of justice.

    Many people are completely fine with these tactics when employed against child molesters. But if we truly were to advocate this sort of behavior, do you think it would really stop with child molestation? Once we got enough of THOSE bad guys off the street, whats to stop the next "gevious offense to society" from taking its place?

    And while looking for child molesters, if we happen to uncover someone who likes to practice recreational pharmacology, do we expect our vigilante to overlook this much more minor offense? Perhaps... But perhaps some employers would be very interested information like that when evaluating prospective employees. They may be interested enough to pay a fair amount of money for information like that. Is your vigillante so morally upright as to not be seduced into profiting from their social espionage?

    This guy installed a trojan virus on 3000+ computers to spy on them in hopes of catching a predator. How many emails did he read about what was going to be eaten for dinner? How many about who was taking the kids to the soccer game? There is something dark and creepy about the whole topic. In a very serious way, we was molesting the privacy of several people in trying to discover something awful about them.

    What do you say of a man who stalks people, searching for something dark and evil about them? I call that a man who struggles with the darkness in his own mind, who is really looking for the monster festering within him. One must take care when fighting monsters that he doesn't become one in the process, indeed.

  • Re:Lousy summary (Score:3, Insightful)

    by russ1337 ( 938915 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @11:23AM (#18108778)
    >>>"If I were the judge, I'd pled innocent that Brad William put all of it on his hacked computer"

    ... and the judge would also have to explain how Brad broke into his house and wrote in his diary and printed out pictures and hid them. Oh, and then broke into his work computer and planted those pictures too. Brad must have also 'conned' another kid into believing they were molested, as these are all things that are part of the case against the judge. Brads work was as a tipster. Nobody has said they were using the computer that Brad hacked as evidence, exactly for the reason you outlined.
  • by westlake ( 615356 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @11:33AM (#18108876)
    If a hacker invades your privacy and reads your e-mail that's terrible; unless he suspects you're a child molester, in which case he's a "hero".

    The hacker may be a hero in his own eyes.

    But, to a judge, the only question is whether his evidence is relevant and admissible.

    Private citizens aren't held to the same standards as the police.

    One of the funniest, most well adjusted people I know was molested at six; it doesn't scar you for life, a savage beating from bullies just might though. Why do we practically encourage bullying but go to any lengths to stop child molesters?

    You present a string of false dilemmas and you generalize through use of a single example.

    That said, the molester may be uniquely corrupting and dangerous because he operates from a position of authority within the family or in society. He is the doctor, the priest, the teacher, the policeman.

  • if i read a tabloid story about britney spears shaving her head, i am expressing my interest in that story. if enough people out there like me are interested in that, we are providing financial incentive for a paparazzi to stalk her all day via the ads we click when we go to the tabloid site, via the fifty cents we spend on the newspaper/ magazine, via the ad rates that are supported by the number of people watching the gossip television news show, etc.

    do you understand that concept?

    if you understand that concept, you understand why "just looking at pictures" has moved way beyond being a simple act of expression or a thought crime. the judge has entered the marketplace of creation and consumption of pictures of naked children. it's not just thoughts anymore. his viewing of those pictures supports the creation of those pictures

    do you deny that fact? then why are there paparazzi stalking celebrities if that is not a fact? get the concept yet?

    justice and morality is all about looking at all of the actions and all of the consequences. justice and morality is not arrived at by selectively ignoring some actions or consequences. you have to look at the context of things, not just tiny disconnected actions. you need to think about cause and effect. because the very concept of justice and morality is all about cause and effect. so to purposefully ignore some causes and some effects when shaping your opinion is to willfully disregard the ideas of justice and morality

    so with child porn, you are talking about a marketplace: the creation, distribution, and consumption of pictures of naked children. the entire marketplace is the crime, not the act of just the distributor, or just the creator, or just the consumer. they all need to be punished if justice and morality is what you are concerned with. and you can't fight a marketplace by focusing just on supply, or focusing just on demand. you must fight both

    if you think that marketplace approach to fighting child porn is wrong, that just looking at naked pictures of children is not wrong, then you don't understand why paparazzi stalk celebrities and why they get $50,000 for a picture of a bald britney spears

    same dynamic at work

    now, think carefully about this little piece of intellectual charity, ruminate on the concept of a something larger than just one person going on here, and then open your mouth

    or call me an idiot again without actually showing any understanding of a larger reality beyond satisfying immediate selfish impulses without any regard for consequences. your choice
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 22, 2007 @11:44AM (#18109050)
    Errr, there are also many, many, many examples of people who were molested by trusted people (at 3 for example) in their lives and they ended up very screwed up people as a result. I know of people personally where that was the case. Just b/c people can survive trauma of some sort (extreme or not) in their lives and end up wonderful people in the end because they figured out how to adjust, there are a lot of examples where this is NOT THE CASE AT ALL! If you could read your wife's private, personal journal that she shows to nobody, what would you see? They might seem well adjusted to you but then you could find out they dwell on it personally for ages on end.
  • by Catbeller ( 118204 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @11:52AM (#18109120) Homepage
    Would Goetz had been found guilty if he had been a black man being menaced by a white gang? Think about it.
  • by Anonymous Brave Guy ( 457657 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @12:13PM (#18109424)

    Give him a pass for hacking the judge.

    No, really, don't. This guy knowingly, systematically broke the law for an extended period, invading thousands of people's privacy in the process. He should spend the next few months in jail. He should then spend the next few years prohibited from going near anything that has the slightest chance of spying on others: networked computers, camera or video equipment, binoculars and telescopes, the works. If he ever talks about anything else he saw during the period to anyone, he should automatically spend the next few years in solitary confinement. And he should be banned from holding any public office that requires access to confidential information for the rest of his life, including any possibility of ever serving in the police or security services. There are enough good people on the right side of the law that we don't need ethically unstable people in that sort of position of responsibility.

    Seriously, privacy invasion is one of the nastiest things you can do to someone. It's subtle, but as with related concerns like identity theft, the damage can be life-changing and can last a very long time. With modern technology making covert surveillance and data collection on a massive scale a realistic possibility, the only defence is to annihilate the people who would abuse such technology to violate the basic rights of others.

    This guy should not be hailed as a hero. He should be made an example. And the evidence against the judge should be given zero weight in court as a matter of legal principle. The end cannot justify the means in cases like this, or the world will become a very nasty place to live.

  • Re:Waits for it.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by PitaBred ( 632671 ) <slashdot&pitabred,dyndns,org> on Thursday February 22, 2007 @12:21PM (#18109524) Homepage
    If I break into a house, and see someone kill someone else, does that mean that my testimony is invalid in court? Because it's the same thing here.
  • by Reziac ( 43301 ) * on Thursday February 22, 2007 @12:54PM (#18109998) Homepage Journal
    I agree absolutely. What this kid did is far more horrifying than what the judge did. That he's being hailed as a hero is outright terrifying.

    Not only that, but it's a very short step from vigilante pursuit of evidence to actually planting evidence, because after all you KNOW that $target WOULD do $evil if only he knew where to get $evil, or whatever excuse is politically convenient this week.

    As I recall, that was exactly what happened back in the days of the informer leagues you mention.

  • Re:Also... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nuzak ( 959558 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @01:29PM (#18110480) Journal
    > Am I correct in thinking that you would rather see this Judge go free for having Child Porn?

    Yes. And no, I don't feel I need to justify my reason to you. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
  • by gad_zuki! ( 70830 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @01:37PM (#18110598)
    Its amazing isnt it. The main article just glossses over the massive computer crimes done by this canadian. The double standard for kiddie porn is mind-blowing and has built some real scary precedents. I'm just afraid the damage has been done and anything done under the guise of 'protecting children' is the root password to the most basic civil rights.
  • Re:1984... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Danse ( 1026 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @01:37PM (#18110604)

    I am fully aware of the abuse potential of allowing law-enforcement to hack computers as part of an investigation but I also deeply doubt that the vast majority of the law enforcement community is out to use such investigative tools as a stepping stone in their diabolical efforts to use Orwell's 1984 as a roadmap for creating a totalitarian surveillance state.

    There are plenty of people in law enforcement who would love to throw out a lot of the rules. It's much easier to get things done when you can just go house to house and kick down doors to hunt for evidence. I don't particularly want to live in that world though. Privacy is essential to allowing us to be who we are without having to share every aspect of our lives with everybody else. Giving police the right to invade the privacy of anybody they want, anytime they want, without the evidence needed to get a warrant, would destroy privacy completely. Even if it doesn't get "abused" as you say, the simple act of allowing it at all is an abuse.

    The people we truly have to worry might rob us of our liberty will use hacking to further their cause regardless of whether the law allows it or not.

    At least then they could be prosecuted for it. If they are powerful enough to be above the law, then that's an entirely different problem, and one that would probably have to be solved outside the law.
  • by Fred Ferrigno ( 122319 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @03:42PM (#18112452)
    Some of it developed that way, but by no means all. "pr0n" is perhaps the better example of what you're talking about. I really doubt "h4x0r" came about the way you say because I've never heard of a word ban on "hacker". In my experience, a lot of "leet" speak was actually developed by people who were making fun of the supposed stereotype of wannabe hacker. The original spellings were just derived from common typos and such, but over time people added little bits to make it more and more absurd. There's always been this stereotype of an inexperienced users who can't type and abbreviate or misspell everything. ("were r u?" etc.) The "l33t h4x0r" was the mostly hypothetical notion of such a person attempting to become a hacker.

    Actual leet speak, it seems to me, is/was used more so by people invoking the stereotype as an insult or in a comical/self-deprecating sense:
    "Who designed your web site, your l33t h4x0r little brother?"
    "I got the VCR to stop blinking. ph34r m3h."
  • Re:Also... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by general scruff ( 938598 ) on Thursday February 22, 2007 @04:18PM (#18112982) Journal
    the man who keeps his urges sated with mere pictures
    Unless you are talking about animation, there is no such thing as a "mere picture".
    There is still an Adult and a Child involved in some sort of activity that takes gross advantage of a minor.
    If you take that into account, the difference between a Pederast and a Pedophile becomes indistinguishable.

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