Apple/NVidia Driver Bug — Question Deleted 703
Joe Drago writes "I purchased a Mac Pro within the first week that they were available, and immediately upgraded to 3GB of RAM (knowing that OSX loves memory). When playing 3D games (World of Warcraft mainly), the game would Kernel Panic the machine if I had played it for a few hours, or if I swapped in and out of the game a few times, etc. I eventually found out (from an official Blizzard poster) that NVidia has a bug in their drivers that kernel panics a Mac Pro if any memory past the 2GB boundary is addressed in the driver. After waiting months for a resolution to this, I decided to post on Apple's support site. Here is an image of my post.. Within a few hours, they removed it from the site, placing it under 'Posts Removed by Administration.' What's going on here? Is Apple trying to hide this bug, or is there something more serious going on between Apple and NVidia?"
Intellectual property (Score:5, Informative)
And yes, there are enough forum admins that I'm not too scared about 'leaking' like this. Note that I'm keeping the exact details secret
Driver support (Score:5, Informative)
Apple's Bugs (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A screen grab? (Score:4, Informative)
Apple won't post (Score:2, Informative)
All that aside, I think its silly the post was deleted, since if this is true, it would be a serious issue. I'm planning on getting a Mac Pro this week (albeit with the Radeon card), and would certainly love to hear Apple's response.
Re:Wrong place? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Wrong place? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Hopefully this won't be deleted soon. (Score:5, Informative)
Apple WORSE than you think. More QA issues! ... (Score:1, Informative)
Apple, like all software companies large and small, maintains an internal employee BugBase or bug database.
Other companies also include feature requests in such databases with acknowledgement from engineers.
It was a shining example from apple until a couple years ago some managers at Apple decided to irrationally ban thousands of Apple employees from being able to search and access Apple's bug database. This includes some of thier highest paid sales guys and highest paid "Systems Engineers" (not systems software engineers, but rather people that technically manage Fortune 100 company client accounts).
It is worse than Soviet Russia.
Apple did not hid or ban bugs, it merely BANNED ANYONE WHO NEEDS TO READ THEM FROM READING THEM EVER!
Now the database is a joke these years, as no one bothers to enhance the anecdotal evidence.
2 RETARDED QA EXAMPLES
Apples blatant bugs throughout history are legendary and none were caught by their QA because their QA
1 > NEVER ONCE SET SCSI DRIVES to ID #5 (7 choices, but every machine at apple QA was #1 and #2 I guess) so some PowerPC macs shipped with a bug that crashed when the hardware was issuing an interrupt cascading from a SCSI transfer interrupt on a SCSI drive with ID #5. traces were missing on the board. Apple Workaround was to cripple the OS and ROMS for that machine to make all SCSI smaller requests and not disconnect-reconnect to the bus. All the macs shipped defective.
2> NEVER HIRED PEOPLE for QA department familiar with commercial 300 dollar mac debuggers such as Viacom (ICOM) T/MON debugger, or Jasik's 'Mac Nosy The Debugger"; and only hired people for QA department familiar with crappy no frills free command line based "MacsBug" an ancient tool contracted out from Motorola and maintained sporadically by Apple for decades. MacsBug knowledge, even slight, is a requirement to pass hiring test of Apples gang of retards known as Apple QA department. I know many successful expert Mac software engineers that until a few years ago used T/MON so exclusively that they never once ever bothered to tolerate or use crappy Macsbug. and those were software engineers who thought nothing of spending 300 dollars on T/MON or 300 dollars on Mac Nosy The Debugger. And those were professional engineers! And they would have failed Apples retarded and inept QA hiring process based on use of a defective crappy free debugger.
3> Allowed a bug to go through where a timer chip was missing from the circuit board of a PowerPC mac used for network (802.3) usage and the code horrible stumbled along in a pathological state that ANYONE doing ANY form of file copying in Apples retarded QA department would have seen. All the macs shipped defective.
4> The left and right audio sources fed from the analog connector to the headphone jack of Apples best consumer multimedia macintosh at the time were backwards! Luckily QuickTime audio extraction was also buggy and reversed audio left-right so digital access was not flipped or discovered until Quicktime was fixed. QA did not catch it, QA did not even use a proper test audio CD. QA had no IQ to even imagine that stereo audio had a concept of left or right.
Etc, etc etc, There are hundreds of anecdotes of shipping failures that slipped past Apple's homogeneously low IQ, low imagination, no-creativity, zombie drone hordes at the laughable department of Apple QA (Quality Assurance) that the only way to fix it would be to gut it from the top and install some actual engineers to control the laughable department. Cutting off the FIELD employees at apple from the QA bug database and cutting off the service people and Systems Engineers (sales support dudes) only makes Apples QA five times more incompetent now.
I believe 100% that having memory buffer below 4 GB but above 2GB could fail in an Apple targeted Nvidia driver and believe 1005 that apple only tests with low memory and with 8 GB (now 16 GB) and nothing
Re:I really wanted to buy a MacBook Pro but... (Score:4, Informative)
Of particular mention is a security bug - complete with stack traces, register values and other goodies. No response and the bug still exists after 3 releases of the product.
Re:Here's my take on it (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A more obvious conclusion... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I really wanted to buy a MacBook Pro but... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A screen grab? (Score:5, Informative)
How often do people take screen grabs of their posts to a forum? Was their expectation of it being removed?
Apple routinely deletes posts discussing known defects; it's very well known among Apple-using techies. Apple has done it in almost every case where there have been hardware defects of any kind. A classic example would be the iBook motherboard failures. I would imagine they do it to a)keep other owners from finding out and demanding fixes as well, b)keeping the press from finding out, and c)to defend themselves in any lawsuits which can claim "well, people reported it on your forums, so you must have known about it!" So...yes.
Web forums and mailing lists fuck with a classic PR/customer service move: deny all knowledge. I had a problem with speakers in my car, which in some cases had caused smoke or fire in this particular model. We called the car company, and each member of the forum, over a period of several weeks, was told "we have no knowledge of any other reports of problems with this model." They lied straight through their teeth. We later found out that over ten years before, a vehicle had completely burned to the ground because of the same defect, and company reps came out, looked at the car, purchased it back off the owner no questions asked, etc. They knew about the defect for over a decade and a half, and only after lots of bitching to NHSTA, did we get them to do anything about it. Oh, and dealing with NHSTA was another barrel of monkeys. Call their 800 number, and you get an operator who cannot do a single thing except ask for your address and send you the forms to report a problem. Once you do, they completely prevent you from speaking to the investigator at NHSTA to communicate further details et al.
Not the same (Score:3, Informative)
On the Mac, the issue is as simple as upgrading your memory to 3GB, and can be done by any user.
On the PC if you upgrade your memory to 3GB, it won't happen, because you still have a 2GB per-process memory limit. You can get 3GB per-process memory limits with the switch you described, regardless of how much physical memory you have (remember virtual memory).
The thing is, you can't really toggle this switch by accident. You have to specifically set it in your boot.ini file. The only thing I can think of in your favor is I have never heard your problem before, and everywhere I see the 3GB switch described it sounded like it could be useful for the right apps... with no mention of this possible bug.
To summarize: Not the same thing. In Mac you simply install more memory. In Windows you have to crack open a system file and add an obscure setting to the boot configuration.
Re:I really wanted to buy a MacBook Pro but... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Apple's Bugs -root cause is Apple QA dept! (Score:3, Informative)
Its WORSE than you think! The Apple bugs are now rampant.
Apple, like all software companies large and small, maintains an internal employee BugBase or bug database.
Other companies also include feature requests in such databases with acknowledgement from engineers.
It was a shining example from apple until a couple years ago some managers at Apple decided to irrationally ban thousands of Apple employees from being able to search and access Apple's bug database. This includes some of thier highest paid sales guys and highest paid "Systems Engineers" (not systems software engineers, but rather people that technically manage Fortune 100 company client accounts).
It is worse than Soviet Russia.
Apple did not hid or ban bugs, it merely BANNED ANYONE WHO NEEDS TO READ THEM FROM READING THEM EVER!
Now the database is a joke these years, as no one bothers to enhance the anecdotal evidence.
2 RETARDED QA EXAMPLES
Apples blatant bugs throughout history are legendary and none were caught by their QA because their QA
1 > NEVER ONCE SET SCSI DRIVES to ID #5 (7 choices, but every machine at apple QA was #1 and #2 I guess) so some PowerPC macs shipped with a bug that crashed when the hardware was issuing an interrupt cascading from a SCSI transfer interrupt on a SCSI drive with ID #5. traces were missing on the board. Apple Workaround was to cripple the OS and ROMS for that machine to make all SCSI smaller requests and not disconnect-reconnect to the bus. All the macs shipped defective.
2> NEVER HIRED PEOPLE for QA department familiar with commercial 300 dollar mac debuggers such as Viacom (ICOM) T/MON debugger, or Jasik's 'Mac Nosy The Debugger"; and only hired people for QA department familiar with crappy no frills free command line based "MacsBug" an ancient tool contracted out from Motorola and maintained sporadically by Apple for decades. MacsBug knowledge, even slight, is a requirement to pass hiring test of Apples gang of retards known as Apple QA department. I know many successful expert Mac software engineers that until a few years ago used T/MON so exclusively that they never once ever bothered to tolerate or use crappy Macsbug. and those were software engineers who thought nothing of spending 300 dollars on T/MON or 300 dollars on Mac Nosy The Debugger. And those were professional engineers! And they would have failed Apples retarded and inept QA hiring process based on use of a defective crappy free debugger.
3> Allowed a bug to go through where a timer chip was missing from the circuit board of a PowerPC mac used for network (802.3) usage and the code horrible stumbled along in a pathological state that ANYONE doing ANY form of file copying in Apples retarded QA department would have seen. All the macs shipped defective.
4> The left and right audio sources fed from the analog connector to the headphone jack of Apples best consumer multimedia macintosh at the time were backwards! Luckily QuickTime audio extraction was also buggy and reversed audio left-right so digital access was not flipped or discovered until Quicktime was fixed. QA did not catch it, QA did not even use a proper test audio CD. QA had no IQ to even imagine that stereo audio had a concept of left or right.
Etc, etc etc, There are hundreds of anecdotes of shipping failures that slipped past Apple's homogeneously low IQ, low imagination, no-creativity, zombie drone hordes at the laughable department of Apple QA (Quality Assurance) that the only way to fix it would be to gut it from the top and install some actual engineers to control the laughable department. Cutting off the FIELD employees at apple from the QA bug database and cutting off the service people and Systems Engineers (sales support dudes) only makes Apples QA five times more incompetent now.
I believe 100% that having memory buffer below 4 GB but above 2GB could fail in an Appl
Re:Possible reason (Score:2, Informative)
Reporting bugs does not help - many bugs at apple (Score:1, Informative)
----
Roporting bugs does not help, apple restricts access to reported bugs even to vital employees.
Its WORSE than you think! The Apple bugs are now rampant.
Apple, like all software companies large and small, maintains an internal employee BugBase or bug database.
Other companies also include feature requests in such databases with acknowledgement from engineers.
It was a shining example from apple until a couple years ago some managers at Apple decided to irrationally ban thousands of Apple employees from being able to search and access Apple's bug database. This includes some of thier highest paid sales guys and highest paid "Systems Engineers" (not systems software engineers, but rather people that technically manage Fortune 100 company client accounts).
It is worse than Soviet Russia.
Apple did not hid or ban bugs, it merely BANNED ANYONE WHO NEEDS TO READ THEM FROM READING THEM EVER!
Now the database is a joke these years, as no one bothers to enhance the anecdotal evidence.
2 RETARDED QA EXAMPLES
Apples blatant bugs throughout history are legendary and none were caught by their QA because their QA
1 > NEVER ONCE SET SCSI DRIVES to ID #5 (7 choices, but every machine at apple QA was #1 and #2 I guess) so some PowerPC macs shipped with a bug that crashed when the hardware was issuing an interrupt cascading from a SCSI transfer interrupt on a SCSI drive with ID #5. traces were missing on the board. Apple Workaround was to cripple the OS and ROMS for that machine to make all SCSI smaller requests and not disconnect-reconnect to the bus. All the macs shipped defective.
2> NEVER HIRED PEOPLE for QA department familiar with commercial 300 dollar mac debuggers such as Viacom (ICOM) T/MON debugger, or Jasik's 'Mac Nosy The Debugger"; and only hired people for QA department familiar with crappy no frills free command line based "MacsBug" an ancient tool contracted out from Motorola and maintained sporadically by Apple for decades. MacsBug knowledge, even slight, is a requirement to pass hiring test of Apples gang of retards known as Apple QA department. I know many successful expert Mac software engineers that until a few years ago used T/MON so exclusively that they never once ever bothered to tolerate or use crappy Macsbug. and those were software engineers who thought nothing of spending 300 dollars on T/MON or 300 dollars on Mac Nosy The Debugger. And those were professional engineers! And they would have failed Apples retarded and inept QA hiring process based on use of a defective crappy free debugger.
3> Allowed a bug to go through where a timer chip was missing from the circuit board of a PowerPC mac used for network (802.3) usage and the code horrible stumbled along in a pathological state that ANYONE doing ANY form of file copying in Apples retarded QA department would have seen. All the macs shipped defective.
4> The left and right audio sources fed from the analog connector to the headphone jack of Apples best consumer multimedia macintosh at the time were backwards! Luckily QuickTime audio extraction was also buggy and reversed audio left-right so digital access was not flipped or discovered until Quicktime was fixed. QA did not catch it, QA did not even use a proper test audio CD. QA had no IQ to even imagine that stereo audio had a concept of left or right.
Etc, etc etc, There are hundreds of anecdotes of shipping failures that slipped past Apple's homogeneously low IQ, low imagination, no-creativity, zombie drone hordes at the laughable department of Apple QA (Quality Assurance) that the only way to fix it would be to gut it from the top and install some actual engineers to control the laughable department. Cutting off the FIELD employees at apple from the QA bug database and cutting off the service people and Systems Engineers (sales support dudes) only makes Apples QA five time
Re:impolite and immature (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?
You don't need to sign up for any special accounts that likeely require NDAs and other restrictions to discuss issues you're having.
Re:No, slashdot has always been run by control fre (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Intellectual property (Score:3, Informative)
That's an ATA controller than was made before support for Large Disks (e.g., >128GB).
It cannot be fixed with any kind of firmware or software update.
So, not a bug, and not planned obsolescence. Just an ATA controller made before Large Disk support was remotely common. Further, you can just buy an inexpensive ATA PCI card if you really wanted to use disks larger than 128GB. No need to buy "newer stuff" from Apple.
Also, you're wrong that there has "never been any such problem for PCs". Many older ATA controllers didn't have Large Disk support, and when that is the case, it's not something that can be fixed by a firmware or software upgrade on PCs either.
Re:Wrong place? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I really wanted to buy a MacBook Pro but... (Score:2, Informative)
BBB (Score:4, Informative)
http://bbb.com/ [bbb.com]
Re:Hopefully this won't be deleted soon. (Score:2, Informative)
Exactly! (Score:3, Informative)
Next I found that the keyboard has the worst key-bounce since the Shadio Rack Mod I. A bit of searching uncovered the fact that this has been going on a long time and Apple refuses to admit there is a problem or fix it. The best you will get out of them is another keyboard that does the same thing. There is one company that makes a decent replacement and when I tried to get one, they were out of stock indefinitely at the manufacturing level. hmmm.
I got the computer primarily for vector illustration using Adobe Illustrator. Guess what. Adobe Illustrator is completely unstable on the Mac Pro. This is another little tidbit of information that Apple seems to be squelching. I have found that memory management seems to be the main prob. keep the files small and save often. The program tends to go POOF! on a regular basis, but they do give me the opportunity each time to send a message to Apple telling them what slime-balls they are.
The list goes on and on, but my time to write it doesn't. Look...I knew I was buying a new system design and there would be bugs, but I would expect Mr. Jobs to have at least some modicum of professional ethics and be up front about MAJOR problems so people can make informed choices. These aren't small matters. Adobe CS2 and Parallels are two of the biggest selling points for the Mac. Neither one worked, they knew it and they lied about it. simple as that.
Re:Intellectual property (Score:3, Informative)
What was that Hi-Cap driver that I installed to allow access to the 300GB drives I have installed in the boxes then?
Something that bypasses the 128GB limitation of single partition size by doing a little trickery. I trust you noticed that you have to partition the drives into less than 128GB chunks.
There are no "inexpensive" ATA PCI cards that work for a mac. They are starting out at $65+ everywhere I have seen them. Cards for PCs don't work.
Uh, $65 is inexpensive. More inexpensive than the only alternative you implied ("buying newer stuff [from Apple]").
You're wrong that I'm wrong. I have installed large drives on countless boxes. They may require drivemagic or a BIOS update, but I have yet to see a PC that was limited by the hardware.
If they require additional software/drivers, that's the same trickery as Hi-Cap.
In any event, the fact that the ATA controller on early G4's didn't have 48-bit LBA/Large Disk support isn't a "bug". Earlier ATA controllers didn't have such support. (And if you think Apple purposefully did it when disk sizes were commonly less than 40GB with designs on "forcing" people to upgrade when >128GB disks became available, you're deluded.)
What's really amusing is you seem to have no problem doing essentially the exact same solution you're using on the G4 on PCs.
More info:
http://www.48bitlba.com/ [48bitlba.com]
http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/tp/137gb.p
http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/bi
It's their responsibility (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Intellectual property (Score:3, Informative)
Unless things have radically changed in the decade or so since I last dealt intimately with the IDE interface, the controller hardware has nothing whatsoever to do with block addresses.
The command registers are stored in the drive not the controller. Updating the system to deal with large disks is a device driver issue, not a hardware issue.
You have to partition large drives into 128G chunks on older hardware so that the BIOS can boot the thing. Booting from a larger partition would require a BIOS update.
NVidia bug OR memory upgrade issue? (Score:5, Informative)
(Couldn't access the article's screen capture - site's bandwidth exceeded.)
I did some googling around, and it appears that Mac Pro systems have been known to Kernel Panic in a number of cases after a memory upgrade. Have you considered that you might have TWO (intermittent) problems?
According to this [xlr8yourmac.com]http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/Mac_Pro/mac_pro _ram.html [xlr8yourmac.com] upgrade memory should have larger heatsinks than standard heatsinked FB-Dimms. It has links to: memory test utilities, ECC correction reports, and most notably:
Questions:
Hope this helps!
Re:Intellectual property (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Exactly! (Score:1, Informative)
Oh WOW! Why didn't I think of that! I'll just give up my profession for six months to a year til they get that all worked out. How stupid of me not to see such an obvious solution. Thank you for such an intelligent suggestion!
Re:Exactly! (Score:2, Informative)
1: Almost every USB keyboard made for PCs and Macs can work on a Mac. I can also plug a Mac keyboard into a PC and use it. Same goes for mice, although what is the point with the 1 button mouse or even the mighty mouse which sucks. (well for gaming at least)
2: Parallels is not an apple product so you should have contacted them about a patch. It might just be a problem with a specific OS X release as apple has changed the kernel a few times in the 10.4.x realm causing incompatibilities.
3: Adobe makes very few products native for Intel based Macs. Eventually they will, but they do not now. You would have done better to buy a refurb PPC Mac or to wait. The performance on intel macs is terrible for photoshop and illustrator. Dreamweaver is almost unusable on the first gen intel mac minis.
Adobe products sort of run, but you could have researched the lack of native support for most applications on intel macs. Rosetta only emulates a subset of the G4 instructions and so many applications can't run at all or run slowly.
In my experience virtualization software is never as good as dual booting anyway. Sure you get an advantage that you don't need to reboot, but you loose some speed and also stability. Perhaps the vmware product will work better on the mac. I think its in beta now?
Apple does mislead customers on occasion through advertisements and listing capabilities. Then again, Microsoft and the linux community have done it for years as well. Never trust a software vendor. While Microsoft's bs is obvious, I should clarify the linux point. Linux fans will tell you that linux can run on almost anything and is a viable desktop replacement. Strictly speaking this isn't true for some. Lack of equivalent hardware support that Windows or Mac OS brings on a particular piece of hardware is an obvious problem. We've all had that happen. My intel motherboard doesn't support working IDE based cdrom drives in any OS outside of windows because no one wants to write a driver for it. (sata to pata bridge) Linux also does not offer some of the functionality that windows offers or at least support for specific applications just as you pointed out above. You can then say linux users are misleading people. Its not really fair to make that statement on many levels but it is none the less true.
In the case of apple, they lie about viruses, malware and other security features.
Re:Intellectual property (Score:3, Informative)
Wrong; it's a driver/firmware issue. LBA48 support could have been added via a firmware patch but Apple chose not to do that. The fact that the HiCap driver from Intech works (see http://www.speedtools.com/index.shtml [speedtools.com]) proves that the hardware is capable. It's also proven by the fact that the IDE driver in Linux has no problem accessing large drives on those controllers (just make sure your kernel is in a /boot partition within the first 128GB on the disk). It's a software problem, not a hardware one.
The only reason that OSX cannot access large drives on those controllers without the Intech driver is that Apple deliberately probrammed the IDE driver to limit itself upon detecting a limited controller firmware, in order to ensure data integrity when mixing OSX and Classic environments on the same drive.
Re:It's their responsibility (Score:5, Informative)
You are incorrect, ATI and nVidia do write the code for the drivers that are included in the OS. I searched around the net, and I couldn't find any convincing evidence, but as a former employee, trust me. ATI/nVidia write the drivers, Apple does most of the Q&A. If you file a bugreport on a driver it will end up as being readable by ATI/nVidia, they have access to that category of bugs.
Re:Apple Policy gagged (Score:5, Informative)
And, name me one thing that Apple has done that involves DRM, besides the iTunes Music Store. You can't, because they haven't done ANYTHING. And the music store only has DRM at the insistence of the record labels.
As for the iPhone, I can't argue there - I can only hope that Apple will come to its senses in the next six months, and open it up for public development.
Re:Apple Policy gagged (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.barefeats.com/quad16.html [barefeats.com]
Re:Apple Policy gagged (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Sorry. Not Correct (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Intellectual property (Score:3, Informative)
Re:the "problem" (Score:1, Informative)
I'm just switching back to Linux (Ubuntu) (after more than two years with Mac OS), and I already love it.
And for the first time in its life, my trackball doesn't just have a scroll-down/up button, but can use the whole wheel to emulate the Mighty Mouse.
And man it's fast, even though the PC is older than my Mac! (Eclipse shows a factor of 4 on startup).
Re:Hopefully this won't be deleted soon. (Score:3, Informative)
Hahahahah!
Haha. Ha.
My PowerBook was in for repairs twice for over four weeks. They replaced it with a new one the first time because they had lost it at the repair centre. At no point was I offered a loan unit, and they only finally sent me the replacement after I spent over ten hours on their (10p/minute) customer support line.
Oh, and they've now closed the mail-in repair centre in the UK, so you need to take your machine to an authorised third-party repair centre when it breaks. There is only one of these in Wales, so good luck if you live there.
Mind you, if you walk in to the AppleStore in London, you will still be told by the staff on the shop floor that they offer free mail-in repair (it's also in the AppleCare T&Cs). Apparently they didn't bother telling any of their resellers either.
Apple support is a joke. Their machines are fine for home use, but they are way behind even Dell for corporate use (no, we really can't spare a technician for half a day to drive a machine over to the repair centre every time one breaks, and then another half-day to collect it a month later when it's fixed).
scientology (Score:5, Informative)
chipset bug (Score:2, Informative)
3Gb and Nvidia drivers (Score:2, Informative)
I realize this doesn't have much to do with the original poster's problem (he's on OS X) but it does seem more than coincidental that going past 2Gb of memory causes issues on both platforms, with the only common denominator being the presence of an Nvidia card and associated drivers.
Here is my boot.ini for anyone who has a similar set up and wonders what to do about the issues:
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDO
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Micr
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Micr
Re:Apple Policy gagged (Score:3, Informative)
The TPM is such an integral part of the Intel Architecture no both PC and Mac that it's not even included [osxbook.com] on the latest Mac hardware, such as the Core 2 Duo iMac, the Mac Pro, or any of the Core 2 Duo portables.