Is A Bad Attitude Damaging The IT Profession? 892
dtienes writes "Why does IT get a free pass to insult users? Slamming customers isn't acceptable in any other profession; doctors don't call their patients "meatbags" — at least, not publicly. But IT professionals think nothing of wearing their scorn on their sleeves (or at least their chests — just check out ThinkGeek). There's more at stake here than just a few hard feelings. IT may be seriously damaging the credibility of the profession. See the essay I'm An Idiot (And Other Lessons From The IT Department) for a former IT professional turned user's take on insults, attitudes and ethics.
(Full disclosure: The submitter is also the author.)"
Because IT people ... aren't? (Score:3, Interesting)
There are lots of great ones out there (Score:4, Interesting)
were BOFHs. They were both replaced with talented, socially well-balanced
guys who treated users like customers and actually enjoyed finding
solutions to problems that were right both for the user and for the IT department.
I don't think it's the bad attitude of some IT people that's doing the damage,
it's management toleration of that attitude. Plenty of good people out there
if you go looking.
Jackasses are just jackasses (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm an IT manager and I'm all about helping business work better through IT. Some of my favorite endorsements are along the lines of "you don't make me feel stupid." What would be the point in that? I don't do what they do... which is most often making money for the company. In my job, I spend the company's money, so I do my best to make sure they feel they are getting their money's worth.
But back to the topic of jackasses: I hate people who hide their ignorance and attempt to put up some sort of "I won't share what I know" front as if he were the exclusive container of knowledge. Further, I hate it when people attempt to "secure their jobs" through obfuscation and indirection of information. In my opinion, the latter complaint amounts to malpractice. And I have a close friend who is presently suffering the worst of all scenarios -- the knows less than nothing boss who got where he is because he lies on his resume. (This moron thinks that if you block port 80 on the firewall that users will not be able to surf the web!!)
I see these offenders as a dying breed, fortunately... but they aren't dying fast enough.
Re:Yes. (Score:5, Interesting)
> you think of users who know absolutely nothing
> about computers?"
Speaking as a business manager, I think that is quite appropriate. For an interview conducted in 1986, or perhaps even 1996.
My question to that organization is, why in the year 2006 do you have employees who do not possess the skills to use basic, standard tools to process basic business information, and to extend their own skills by themselves moderate amounts (not to learn a new ERP system by themselves, for example, but to figure out the fairly minor differences between AP module 5.5.7 and the new 5.6.1 version now in pre-production testing)? Why do you still have employees who believe that an inability to do a basic search in their own e-mail box merits a deskside visit from an ultra-qualified, ultra-patient analyst who will provide 4 hours of no-charge tutoring? Can you name another support department that does this? Does Finance provide remedial tutoring in financial accounting to sales managers, not just once upon promotion but over and over and over again over 20 years? Is the CFO on call 24x365 to provide personal tutoring on how to read sales reports? Why not?
Again, I am speaking as a business manager who has been through this entire cycle 3 times since the 1970s and who spent tremendous amounts of time in the 1980s providing basic business (computer) skills tutoring.
sPh
Almost expected (Score:5, Interesting)
More recently I've noticed a worrying trend -- a lack of social skills has become an expected trait for programmers by a few employers (whereas most employers value social and communication skills very highly). I have recently seen job adverts in the UK that have included lines such as "the sort of person we are looking for is a geek. You probably prefer to relate to computers and have very few friends". If even a few employers are actively reinforcing the all-too-common stereotype, then that cannot be healthy for the industry.
Re:Ignorant != stupid (Score:2, Interesting)
I get it. Computers are new and frightening. People get almost a mental block when trying to use them because they're so different. If anything, I would think that would mean they would be more careful, not more careless.
User education doesn't always work. What is needed is for there to be pain associated with repeated instances of the same mistake. Give them three freebies, then start docking their pay every time their workstation is infected. Give them some real incentive to avoid the infection, since right now, they know that the already overworked IT guy will just come fix it if they screw up.
I think that this is pretty typical for most IT people. While some certainly do feel superior and believe that everyone should just know how to operate the computer, for most, it's not the ignorance, it's the stupidity.
Re:Almost expected (Score:5, Interesting)
Day 1: none of my professors took me seriously. When they were asking guys who already knew how to program to move into CS2, they recommended that I stay in CS1. I ended up teaching a bunch of those guys a thing or two. After freshman year, I had earned the respect of my professors and my peers though. Other girls who manage to make it through the gauntlet tend to develop the IT attitude in discussion. You have to be tough to play rough. I took a slightly different route that seemed to work out just as well. I took the, "I won't do your homework, but I will certainly show you how much better of a programmer I am while I help you with your homework," path. It worked real well. But the girls who develop that attitude don't lose it. It sticks with them forever. I don't blame them one bit though. It can be really mean, disrespectful, and degrading to be a CS female student. So for the female side, I recommend that people just hand over respect to women just like they hand it over to men.
I propose that this could also be a cause of arrogance amongst male IT people. The idea is put in their head that they are better the moment they step onto a college campus. It probably just gets worse by the time the four years there are over.
Re:Yes. (Score:4, Interesting)
I agree wholeheartedly, but it'll never happen in any widespread, meaningful way. Autodidacticism is abhorrent to business culture's fixation with standardized, top-down "training." Put another way: if everyone's going to be an idiot with the computers, management would rather have them be the same idiots.
That is the reason I'm trying to change careers (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Nah, it's down to Asperger's (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Doctors insult patients regularly (Score:3, Interesting)
I do not believe it is fair to equate that with the arrogance of some hygienically-challenged geek who finally found something he can feel superior about.
While their are overcompensating social misfits in every profession, I think someone willing to run into a burning house and drag my sorry butt out into the fresh air has a lot more right to call me an idiot for smoking in bed than some cranky, 19-year-old call desk slave has to berate me for not being born with the innate knowledge of my I.P. address.
Re:Almost expected (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:car mechanics do it too (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course, physicians make three or four times what IT people make, so that's got to put you in a better mood.
Re:Almost expected (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, as a "shy" person I'm disconcerted by the apparent growing discrimination against people like me. I was subjected to this a great deal at my previous position, where I was not taken seriously and perceived to be less intelligent than my coworkers by my supervisor, despite having certifications to back up my knowledge and some experience at a larger installation. This isn't marketing or HR, and I don't have 'poor communication skills' just because I don't quack-quack around the water cooler with the other ducks. Fortunately, this attitude wasn't the case in past jobs and it's not the case where I work now.
As for the lUsers, it's a method of group cohesion that happens in every field and a way to reclaim esteem when being underpaid and undervalued (e.g. at the lower ends of tech support). (One of my relatives is a doctor, and if you don't think they engage in it, you're wrong.) I've never mistreated a lUser because of the mistakes they've made, and I've never been insulted by a support person when I was on the other side. I realize that a lot of lUser cluelessness could be fixed with a little education, but that kind of thing would have to be supported by the company, which is more likely to outsource you than to support one of your initiatives anyway.
Re:It's a two-way street (Score:1, Interesting)
You end up with a stressed out IT that can't support you anyway, and is probably neglecting something _everyone_ wants supported.
As for pleasing customers, if you went into an auto dealer and asked for chewing gum and they didn't have any, would you say they didn't care about the customer?
Re:Almost expected (Score:5, Interesting)
>Computers are easy to learn. People are more complex. I often wonder, when I read topics like this and posts like yours, if the issue is that "geeks" are scared to figure out the more complex topic of people because they might fail and stick to computers because figuring out ones and zeros is easier.
I've heard arguments like that before, and I can understand where they come from, but I've never really thought that they were correct.
The way I see it, there are a few different types of social skills, which fall into two broad categories:
- Emotional skills: the ability to empathize and to implicitly communicate good intentions.
- Conversational skills: the talent for entertaining people by interacting with them.
It's often assumed that 'geeks' lack social skills in all their forms, but from what I've seen, many do have #1 -- just not #2 (Of course, there are also those who are just embittered jerks. But I think that's a minority.) Skill #2, I think, depends largely on confidence.> You made the conscious choice to develop that attitude. You can make the conscious choice to lose the attitude.
It's always good to nurture a more positive outlook. Certainly, these things take time to develop and you can't will yourself happy overnight, but you can help the right kind of worldvew to grow in your head. That said, I didn't pick up negative vibes from the OP -- it was other girls who had problems; she herself did feel like she had something to prove, but stayed reasonably positive (so, more power to her).
>Or is it that you aren't as smart about your own feelings, attitudes and behaviors as you are about computers?
That, I'll be honest, is something I've had to learn: To know what I want, and to appropriately reject the things I don't. That's not so much a 'nerd' thing: I think many people feel guilty thinking about themselves and their own wants; we're "supposed" to be selfless. But it's just not healthy. Pay attention to what other people want and try to help them. Sometimes, put their desires above your own. But know what your desires are. And you can't work them out logically from first principles; they are your axioms.
Comment removed (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Yes. (Score:3, Interesting)
My question to that organization is, why in the year 2006 do you have employees who do not possess the skills to use basic, standard tools to process basic business information, and to extend their own skills by themselves moderate amounts (not to learn a new ERP system by themselves, for example, but to figure out the fairly minor differences between AP module 5.5.7 and the new 5.6.1 version now in pre-production testing)? Why do you still have employees who believe that an inability to do a basic search in their own e-mail box merits a deskside visit from an ultra-qualified, ultra-patient analyst who will provide 4 hours of no-charge tutoring? Can you name another support department that does this? Does Finance provide remedial tutoring in financial accounting to sales managers, not just once upon promotion but over and over and over again over 20 years? Is the CFO on call 24x365 to provide personal tutoring on how to read sales reports? Why not?
Because computer expertise isn't the job of many of these people? Possibly because they possess invaluable field-specific expertise that outweighs their computer deficiencies?
What arrogant IT people sometimes forget is that the IT department does not make money. It is there at the pleasure of the rest of the company that actually makes or sells products. So if someone whose work is vital to the company needs an IT guy to spend an hour finding an email, he needs to get his ass over there.
What I don't understand is why companies put up with that tail wagging the proverbial dog.
Re:Ug... "he or she" is a schmo! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Almost expected (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:car mechanics do it too (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmmm... it may be that I'm one of those rare extroverted IT people... but I make it a point to joke with the people who talk to me, and at my expense more then theirs. It sets them at ease, they're more willing to explain what they really did, and we can get everything fixed faster. By dealing with the people with a good sense of humor, and building a connection that way, they also cut you some slack if something slips in a timetable. They are more willing to be understanding that they're issue isn't the most critical one, and are less likely to complain about it.
Of course, all my users aren't like this. We have several who will call, then after we've been working the issue for a couple of days, and sending updates every couple of hours, will still complain that we haven't done anything. These people are also the ones who use the "shotgun" method of notification (where instead of just sending an e-mail to my team's boss, they'll send it to the VP, our boss, the manager of another whole department, etc.). I've found the best response to that, is to respond to all with the full rundown of work down on the ticket, with timestamps, and the notifications that the users were contacted, and e-mail notifications went out to them. That usually knocks them back out of the "my issue is the most important, and heaven and earth must be moved to fix it, even if you're waiting for third parties to ship hardware" mentality.
I've also turned the whole "customer abuse" thing into a running gag around the office. Most of the time, when I answer the phone, after saying hello, the first words will be, "What did you break this time?" Say it with the proper tone, and after talking to them a couple of times before on the phone, and they'll start laughing at this point alone.
Of course, this is all my experience and opinion, so (as always) YMMV.
Nephilium
"Dissent is morally neutral. You can correctly call yourself a dissident because you like to kick puppies, but at the end of the day, you're just a jerk who likes to kick puppies." -- Jonah Goldberg
alright, after I RTFA (Score:2, Interesting)
the article's analogy of a car's pedal's changing function is faulty.
the driver would have been tested and licensed to use those pedals by a driving instructor.
computer use requires no license but that doesn't make it easy.
if you want to use a computer and use this software, then you have to learn how! \
that is what is necessary to be a user that doesn't have to call IT every 5 minutes.
You must familiarize yourself with the tools you're being paid to use.
How would you feel if your plumber asked you how your toilet worked?
How would you feel if your lawn guy asked how to use the lawn mower?
you wouldn't blame the manufacturer of a band saw for making the controls different from another manufacturer.
you also wouldn't use a band saw without learning how first.
though, a computer can't take off your fingers, your refusal to think and learn what the IT guy already has annoys him.
not that users read
Re:Ug... "he or she" is a schmo! (Score:1, Interesting)
surprise. . . (Score:3, Interesting)
The only difference with respect to "public" exposure is that you hang out on IT-oriented blogs so you consider this "in public". Go find some medical professional-oriented blogs if you want to find out what these professionals think of you.
This is a good thing. We WANT our professionals to blow off steam at each other, because we won't like the results if they blow it off at us... they don't want us telling them "Open a DOS prompt. Type format C: and then type "Y" and all your computer troubles will be over" any more than we want them "accidentally" screwing up our prescription meds.
One doesn't become a professional anything because we want to kiss the asses of our clients all the time. Anybody who's any good is going to get pissed off at our clients / fellow workers who don't have our specialized skills... and they're going to be pissed off at us because we don't get it right in their areas of expertise in a way that causes them unnecessary trouble. There's some reason why IT pros should have any more humility than they do?
And yes, you are an idiot. That doesn't mean the rest of us are going to follow your lead.
Though the biggest idiot here is whoever thought your article worth posting on slashdot.
Re:car mechanics do it too (Score:3, Interesting)
Five steps to a happy marriage
1. Find a man who is great with kids,
2. Find a man who can say "I Love you" a hundred ways,
3. Find a man who can hold a job and balance a checkbook,
4. Find a man who can (etc...)
5. Make sure none of these men find out about the other...
Sure, Happy combinations of mediocre talent and moderate patience exist, but at the level of competitive business, it is unlikely that the same people who are better than 95% of the population at X are even remotely competitive at Y, and yes, IT are probably 5% of the population.
Try looking at it from another angle.
Say 5% of the people had all the food. They other 95% would always be asking for the food. Those with the food would try giving it away at first, bu they would quickly discover that when they do give it away, the line only gets longer. In the end, nothing the 5 can do will provide food for the hungry, so they start to hint that maybe the 95 without food should do whatever it is one does to get food, rather than simply handing over the food they already have.
The reputation that IT has for an unwillingness to endlessly engage in the free-education of those who have not made the same effort to be informed is a manifestation of a limited resource (people who understand it) experiencing over-demand combined with the problems of free-ridership. In my opinion, people who don't understand tech, but want their tech questions answered without the effort of comprehensive study - are free-riders, and techs will naturally resist free-riders. The fact that money may or may not be changing hands is important, but not paramount. I suggest that the theory of grouchy IT is actually a form of social pressure placed by neophyte's on techs, in order to manipulate them to continue their free-rider privileges.
Apply these theories to your own facts, and see if they don't explain it better.
AIK
guilty. (Score:2, Interesting)
(1) they don't want to use a computer in the first place, or they know that they are lost and are therefore scared of the computer. either way, they try to avoid having to even touch the thing if they don't have to. these people i don't mind working with- because they generally know their limitations, and in many cases they actually listen when you tell them something. the trick is to tell them in a way that they actually understand- because just like they're scared of the computer, if you say something and they don't understand it, they're usually scared to ask you to repeat it or explain it in a way which is better for them... or they're afraid you're going to turn into one of these arrogant weenies that the article spoke of- the kind of people who would wear an "i see dumb people" t-shirt to a client's office.
in my current work (consulting) i have quite a bit of contact with these people. for the most part they "just want it to work", and they KNOW that they're not computer experts. these people make mistakes, but they almost always realize when they've screwed something up, and they ask for help. and unless they were doing something they shouldn't have been doing in the first place (installing software that the company doesn't want on the machine is a big one that i see) they will usually admit what happened. and after you explain to them that your service call was only necessary because of the software that they installed, and (in the case of installing unauthorized software) after their boss threatens to take my fee out of their paycheck, they usually won't do it again.
(2) companies like microsoft have convinced a lot of people that, just because they know how to use ALT-TAB to flip between outlook and solitaire when the boss walks by, that they are some kind of computer expert. THESE are the ones who piss me off- the people who think that just because they figured out how to turn on file and printer sharing on a windoze 2000 machine, that they are also qualified to handle everything from mail servers to cisco routers.
i don't normally have much contact with these people in my work, because when i find them, i make it a point to make sure their supervisors know exactly what kind of person they have on the payroll- and either the person starts improving, or they end up fired.
however, in my non-paid work (i maintain a combined patch file for qmail, and am a developer for vpopmail) i deal almost exclusively with these people who believe that, just because they can click the right buttons to make windoze do something, that they are also "computer experts" in general. these people are the ones who generally won't READ any more documentation than they have to- they'll just blindly follow along with some poorly written "qmail install guide" they found on the net, without understanding what they're actually doing. when they're done they'll usually have a machine which will move mail from one place to another, but it won't be secure, and they won't have any idea how it works, how to configure it, or how to fix it when something goes wrong.
THESE are the people who i freely admit to being rude with... the people who are in over their head but just plain don't care. (for me, "being rude" usually means referring them to ESR's "How to ask questions the smart way" [catb.org] page instead of answering the same questions over and over again.)
i think another problem is that many so-called "IT professionals" are afraid to use the phrase "i don't know" in front of a client or employer. i've found that being honest with my clients about my own skills and knowledge, as well as about the things i DON'T know, has worked really well- in a few cases the clients have even been willing to pay for my time to learn about whatever it is.
so when it comes to no
Re:An example (Score:4, Interesting)
No, we're not. As an industry, we look produce products and perform services that are dictated by our own failings and conveniences rather than our customers' needs.
Assume the customer was once right, but has been made bitter and defensive by repeated arrogant IT messages (YOU have performed an illegal action and will be shut down...), and you won't be far from understanding current IT/user relationships.
That printer was out of paper, had you looked at the screen it has, you would have seen that.
The user should have got a simple, understandable message that the printer was out of paper. That's a failure of the OS designer and printer driver developer.
It was rejected because aol.con does not exist and you received an email telling you that.
The user's email software should have picked up the typo and suggested a correction (in fact, most email clients do). Users are used to ignoring dozens of cryptic error messages daily, because we have to, in order to continue working. Make computers more reliable, and error messages more intelligible, and we'll start paying attention to them.
I called you for some clarification and to explain this to you but got your voice mail. I went by your desk and you waved me off.
The user is employed by your company to work. They generate income for the company. You are employed by your company to service the tools they use to generate the money that pays your salary. You are a cost to the company.
They owe you politeness out of common decency, but common sense suggests you should avoid interrupting their work.
The other unrelated email problem you had today was their server rejected it because you attached a 75MB file.
The user needs to get a 75MB file to the customer. Stop whining and arrange for it to happen.
We often have users call us directly and complain that somehow they were given some random software push which delayed their check in and want us to call their supervisor.
You have been a problem for so long that people believe they can use you as an excuse for their own failures.
Stop being a problem.
Re:Almost expected-a lower bar. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:An example (Score:2, Interesting)
The end user is the one who SHOULD report the problem, as they are the one who perceives whatever has occurred as a problem. Otherwise you get a manager who is no doubt pissed that he has been interrupted, AND has to talk with those cretins in IT again because his/her golden salesperson couldn't file something. He doesn't have the facts of the problem (real or imagined) so he reports his interpretation. IT then attempts to troubleshoot an incorrect description, taking longer.
The Chinese Whisper effect is a killer - so much so that our company charges more per hour for for ad hoc support to any one who reports the problem through a superior / in house IT department - automatically it is billed as '2nd level support'. Anyone reporting the problem on a the behalf of an end user should be able to report the problem more clearly than an end user.
I use 'perceived' there because this is often the case - a misunderstanding. It is so much more bearable to troubleshoot 'I don't quite understand why I can't access this directory' rather than 'Someone has removed my access, reinstate it immediately, I can't believe that the system is locking me out'.
Classic example:
Setup a new user account and group membership in AD (yes, lynch me for working in an MS shop) as per a standard, pro forma account that clearly lists the total group memberships and is filled out by a HR manager. Receive phone call from said HR manager saying that we screwed up the group memberships, can't you follow a simple form, etc etc. Check group memberships, all as stated. Ask HR manager what exact problem the user is experiencing (can't access files in directory) but not a reason why. Transferred to end user's department head, who by this stage is jumping up and down that this new user who should be up and running is wasting precious time on her training day. Ask department head what symptoms the user is experiencing. Not sure, can't get to the files. Ask politely to talk to the end user, check network mappings and notice that as she is using a personal machine that does not log into the domain that of course there are no mapped drives. Advise end user that we were not aware she was using her own machine as it wasn't noted on the new account form, set her up with a RDP session to the Terminal Server that all staff use, and she is off and running.
Two minutes of troubleshooting with the end user turned into an hour bill with many heated words with various members of this organisation who are now too sheepish/self righteous to call us that any actual problems are ignored (can't save, no space on network drive? Report to network admins? NO, save important document to USB, lose it and then get flustered at why it can't be recovered from backup)