Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
Security Government Politics

Danish, Western Websites Under Attack 1467

Posted by Zonk
from the daily-show-is-real-news-now dept.
caese writes "The BBC is reporting that almost 900 Danish websites have been defaced by crackers angry about the recent controversy over cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad. From the article: 'What is extraordinary for this Danish case is the speed in which the community united'. Another 1600 or so Western websites have been defaced by the same group. The defacements have ranged from condemnation of the cartoons to outright calls for violence."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Danish, Western Websites Under Attack

Comments Filter:
  • Cartoons (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Janitha (817744) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:43AM (#14677519) Homepage
    If they start defacing websites for just a cartoon, imagine what they will do if it was a offending movie/act: take whole servers and backbones down? Oh the horror.


    Serious note: Lets take a look at this situation.

    Attack: Cartoon
    Defense: Death threats, burn down buildings, deface websites, protests, and the list goes on.

    Conclusion: Overkill?


    • Re:Cartoons (Score:5, Funny)

      by aussie_a (778472) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:46AM (#14677550) Journal
      There is no overkill in a jihad. Only kill.
      • Re:Cartoons (Score:5, Funny)

        by TeknoHog (164938) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:14PM (#14677988) Homepage Journal
        There is no overkill in a jihad. Only kill.

        You mean Chuck Norris is a muslim?

      • Re:Cartoons (Score:5, Insightful)

        by dustmite (667870) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:25PM (#14678144)

        It's a little strange to me, but before this Danish cartoon incident I was siding with the 'doves', yet now I find myself siding with the hawks. Freedom of speech is at least as sacred to me as the prophet is to a muslim person. It's such a crucial part of the very foundation of our culture. People died for it. There can be no compromise on this issue. No apologetic placating. Particularly not for the type of murderous trash who are willing to violently burn/kill/vandalise/hack/destroy etc. for some cartoons. I realise that (a) it is a minority of Muslims and (b) they are actually behaving against the very teachings of the Prophet and Islam, but dammit, the rest of the Islamic people better get these violent ones in line or we are rightfully headed for a clash of ideals here.

        • Re:Cartoons (Score:5, Insightful)

          by voice_of_all_reason (926702) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:36PM (#14678310)
          I realise that (a) it is a minority of Muslims

          If there's anything that this is proving, it's that the crazies are not in the minority here. 500,000 people chanting "death to america, death to israel?"

          Granted, while most Muslims will not actively torch embassies and behead infidels, they genuinely beleive the entire world should be forcibly conquered by their religion.
          • Re:Cartoons (Score:3, Insightful)

            There are a lot more than 1,000,001 Muslims in the world.
            • Re:Cartoons (Score:4, Insightful)

              by ifdef (450739) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @01:11PM (#14678779)
              So where are the demonstrations by the rest of them? Why are they silent?
              • Re:Cartoons (Score:5, Informative)

                by CowboyBob500 (580695) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @01:56PM (#14679368) Homepage
                They aren't. At least the Muslim Council Of Great Britain hasn't been silent about it. In fact when I heard their spokesman on the radio he was spitting feathers he was so angry about the demonstrators in London.

                Maybe it's the fault of the media in certain countries that the moderate Muslim reaction isn't being sought or heard?

                Bob
              • Fear (Score:4, Insightful)

                by n54 (807502) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @06:17PM (#14682192) Homepage Journal
                Disclaimer: Norwegian here (so this is a reply from a somewhat norwegian perspective) & I've posted about the cartoons before on Slashdot (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=176319&cid=14 646689 [slashdot.org]). Also I do support freedom of speech even if I often get offended by it myself (I consider flagburning a part of freedom of speech). Hell I've long ago gotten used to offensive stuff and ridicule: it's a natural price for having opinons that go against the flow. I'm not too fond of organized religion, I'm anti-nazi, anti-socialism/communism, pro-Bush, pro-Iraq war, pro-individualism, pro-transparency, pro-F/OSS and in the opinion of some by implication pro-schizophrenia lol :) Oh yeah and I don't fear the puzzle palace...

                As others have pointed out they're not silent in the west, and a lot of them are fed up with having to distance themselves from fruitloops calling themselves muslims in other parts of the world. Anyone can get fed up if they always have to defend actions they have nothing to do with but which others link them to by some common denominator. That being said one can't exactly fault people for asking either; it's part of getting to know someone to ask about their opinons isn't it?

                But take a look at those few non-cleric muslims who have spoken in favour of freedom of speech concerning the cartoons in the middle east. In slightly more relaxed countries like Egypt and Jordan they've been sued and harassed. It is no wonder that the silent majority (at least I hope it's a majority) "down there" are afraid of voicing opinion that run counter to an extremist interpretation of Islam. It's even more understandable if it's something they don't give much tought; almost all muslims in those countries live in extremely homogenized countries where almost everybody is a muslim, that's not an environment conducive to thinking about freedom of expression of those that think differently.

                Speaking up in a place like Syria or Iran is tantamount to germans voicing criticism against the treatment of jews in 1940: you've got to be extremely brave to do it and you've got to expect very bad consequences of doing so. I wish they would speak up but I can't but sympathize that they don't; it so much simpler to just go with the flow and if necessary blame Israel, the US, or the EU, or Denmark, or Norway, or *insert scapegoat de jour here* for everything one doesn't like from time immemorial. Yes some people do the same here in the west; stupidity knows no boundaries of culture, gender, or ideology.

                There's a lot of info that's not getting attention either in the west or in muslim countries:
                - some pretty hefty misunderstandings by danish imams and muslims (however the situation is different in Denmark than in Norway, from my perspective I would say that the communities in Denmark are much more disjointed). Some danish imams when talking about the matter to fellow believers in the muslim world managed to mix up the issue with completely non-relevant pictures and impressions exaggerating their "victimization". Some of those issues didn't have the least to do with anything about Islam (or at least the prophet Mohammed) and to such a level that one can wonder if they had ulterior motives -- it's either that or they have almost no understanding of the country and continent they're living in.
                - the rumour mill in the arab world, but elsewhere as well, ran completely out of control: there's a lot of misinformation out there that's 100% false and exaggerated
                - a severe lack of knowledge about how important the concept of freedom of expression is in the west, what the background and philosophy is, what it actually means. There's a need for an introduction to Voltaire
                - a severe lack of knowledge about how the relation between free press and the state is in western democracies
                - a severe lack of understanding about the fact that in the west you are not (as an individual or as a state) expected
          • Re:Cartoons (Score:5, Informative)

            by CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @01:10PM (#14678767) Journal
            If there's anything that this is proving, it's that the crazies are not in the minority here. 500,000 people chanting "death to america, death to israel?"

            You are very misinformed (which is admittedly not your fault as the US news it trying to make it sound exactly like the way you are taking it). This "demonstration against the cartoons" is actually just an annaul holy event. You go there next year, you'll see roughly the same number of people marching there. Its just that some of the Islamic radical leaders are getting up in front of this crowd and railing against the cartoons and shouting things like "death to America".

            Of course a headline saying "1/2 Million Muslims attend demonstration chanting 'death to America'" sounds much more exciting than "Annual Shia religious event draws 1/2 million where a few radical leaders condem America". I'll let you guess which one American news organizations (I use that term loosely) will lead the evening news with.
            • Re:Cartoons (Score:4, Insightful)

              by voice_of_all_reason (926702) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @01:19PM (#14678887)
              Well, the American news being biased is really a whole other issue, in which you are probably a good deal right. But, again, it's all we got, really.

              The 6:00 news shows have been doing alot of interviews with "Muslims on the street" (I'm from New York, lots of 'em in Jersey and Brooklyn) And it's very hard to look at how angry they are and not think that they would sound just like Imam Al-Halal Al-Salami Al-Muhammed if the cameras were off. Saying blatantly hypocritical things like "Yes, there should be free speech, but not for blasphemy."
        • Re:Cartoons (Score:3, Informative)

          by bigsmoke (701591)

          I started out the same way as you, but was also forced to look into what is actually taught by the Koran. In fact, the prophet taught and practiced the spreading of Islam by sword. Some excerpts from

          Fight non-believers
          9.123: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

          Kill non-believers
          4.89: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (

          • Re:Cartoons (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Crizp (216129) <chris@eveley.net> on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:56PM (#14678565) Homepage
            Sure, but the bible also has quite a number of passages in it where the slaying of non-believers is preached. Even the most radical right-wing Christians in the US (and other places) don't follow this, however much they want to deep down inside.

            Because there are consequences to them for doing so. In radical Islamic countries, there is no such consequence - you might be applauded for executing such a feat as killing a Christian or Jew.

            "If you had been Danish, we'd kill you." - some Lebanese protester to a Norwegian journalist.
          • Re:Cartoons (Score:5, Insightful)

            by ifdef (450739) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @01:08PM (#14678730)
            Yeah, but I have seen enough religious propaganda to know that it's easy to show that any group you pick teaches and/or practices such things. If you take words out of context, put your own spin on historical events, find one or two loud-mouthed extremists to quote, dig up old writings than nobody takes literally any more, you can do this to anybody. I suggest looking at the inspirational output of Chick Publications for examples of this.

            The question is, how do most Muslims understand the teachings of the Prophet? If most of them really do think it's okay to murder people because they are "infidels", then we have a major problem. In that case, it's pretty much our DUTY to publish the cartoons, and more.

            But if most of them do NOT think that, then it is THEIR duty (and certainly in their best interests) to put out their alternate message, and to tell the world that murder and kidnappings are NOT what Islam teaches. If the passages you quoted above are in the Koran (and not taken out of context), and Bin Ladin and his ilk interpret them the way they seem to read, and the rest of the Islamic world either keeps silent, then they have only themselves to blame for the consequences -- they can hardly blame the people who take Bin Ladin at his word that he is speaking for Muslims everywhere.
          • Re:Cartoons (Score:4, Insightful)

            by 4thAce (456825) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @02:19PM (#14679622) Homepage

            The interested reader can look up the passages cited here in the Project Gutenberg triple-translation of the Koran [gutenberg.org]. But unless I am very much mistaken, the "idolators" that the Prophet is railing about are not Jews and Christian, who are of course the ones who do have monotheistic faiths, but the polytheistic communities of Arabia which were his contemporaries. Note the numerous citations of "Moses" and "Jesus" in that work, in by no means critical terms.

            What a study of the Koran does not reveal however is everything which has happened since that time, including the fatwas [islamtoday.com] issued by religious authorities, such as the this one prohibiting making images of people and animals [islamtoday.com]. I think one has to understand this side of the religion as well as the Koranic side in order to form a complete opinion.

        • Re:Cartoons (Score:3, Insightful)

          by acid_zebra (552109)
          Freedom of speech is a Good Thing (tm) but its not a license to say anything you want at any time. People self-censor.

          For instance, you could go into the office tomorrow and tell your boss you think he's a complete asshole and a clueless fuck, yes?

          Even if that was your opinion, you would probably moderate your free speech either somewhat, or completely, or be out of a job real soon.

          I too think the reaction of the muslim community is completely over the top, but don't kid yourself, you are not a dove by a lo
          • Re:Cartoons (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Cro Magnon (467622) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @01:31PM (#14679046) Homepage Journal
            If I tell my boss I think he's a complete asshole and a clueless fuck, I won't end up dead or in jail. If I publically state that our President is a complete asshole and a clueless fuck, I STILL won't end up dead or in jail. Yes, there are consequences to saying the wrong thing, even in a free society, but there's a huge difference between getting fired and getting fried!
      • Re:Cartoons (Score:3, Informative)

        by dancingmad (128588)
        Put away the Bill O'Reiley book of big words.

        Jihad is a religious struggle. The main jihad is within a Muslim, to do the right thing, both spirtually and through good works. There's one hadith says that a young man came to the Prophet and asked to join the Muslim armies and join the jihad. The Prophet told him to go take care of his mother, as that was the greater jihad.

        Jihad doesn't mean killing and your definition is wrong. JIhad is a struggle, and no matter how much Faux News pours it down your throa
        • Re:Cartoons (Score:4, Insightful)

          by ifdef (450739) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:51PM (#14678508)
          One wonders where to find the Muslim mobs shouting "Down with Al-Qaeda! Down with terrorism! Stop killing innocent people in the name of Islam, because YOU are profaning the very name of Islam. Stop ridiculing the name of the Prophet in the eyes of the world by claiming that murder is part of Islam!"

          Yes, Muslim governments are trying to control the terrorists, but governments always do that sort of thing. Where are the clerics denouncing the suicide bombers and those who send them? Why is there not a loud RELIGIOUS opposition to these people?

          Because if there isn't, then the world is quite JUSTIFIED in believing that the terrorists are right when they claim that Islam teaches them to kill innocent people just because they belong to a nation that they claim are "enemies of Islam". And if Mohammed really did teach such things, then the caricatures of him are completely justified.

          So don't attack the messenger! Don't attack the cartoonist who says "this is the picture that Muslims are showing us of Mohammed." Attack the people who are GIVING the world this picture of Mohammed.
          • Re:Cartoons (Score:3, Interesting)

            by GreyyGuy (91753)
            There are many Islamic voices condeming the violence. The problem is they never get the same coverage. People pressing for peace very rarely form the active mobs that make for interesting news.
          • Re:Cartoons (Score:5, Informative)

            by Minwee (522556) <dcr@neverwhen.org> on Thursday February 09, 2006 @01:13PM (#14678803) Homepage
            "One wonders where to find the Muslim mobs shouting "Down with Al-Qaeda! Down with terrorism! Stop killing innocent people in the name of Islam, because YOU are profaning the very name of Islam. Stop ridiculing the name of the Prophet in the eyes of the world by claiming that murder is part of Islam!""

            Um... They're here [muhajabah.com]. And here [cair-net.org]. And here and here [masnet.org] and here [baheyeldin.com] and here [americanmuslimwoman.com] and here [jannah.org] and even here [cbsnews.com] and, oh, there are a few hundred more here [muhajabah.com].

            Muslim leaders around the world have issued fatwa after fatwa condemning terrorism and calling for an end to suicide bombings, car bombings, bus bombs, subway bombs, and every other bombing short of another Uwe Boll film. Just because Bill O'Reilly doesn't tell you about it doesn't mean that is never happened.

            • Re:Cartoons (Score:5, Insightful)

              by ScentCone (795499) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @01:31PM (#14679049)
              Muslim leaders around the world have issued fatwa after fatwa condemning terrorism and calling for an end to suicide bombings, car bombings, bus bombs, subway bombs, and every other bombing short of another Uwe Boll film

              The problem isn't that leaders "around the world" don't do that... the problem is that the leaders in the countries that are encouraging this, and sending money to do more of it, and celebrating it when it happens are not condemning it. What good does it do when some cleric in Malaysia says that some despondent, crazy Syrian kid shouldn't be listening to the non-stop encouragement to kill westerners? It's the people shouting the non-stop encouragement that have to change, and they don't want to. So the only option is to actually stop them, and the reaction from most governments in the Islamic world has been to be somewhat helpful, at best, while other people do it for them.

              Do you really think that the collection of murderous bomb plotters that just "escaped" from a Yemeni prison were just such geniuses that they got out despite the best efforts of local government and religious leaders to keep them from running out and blowing up another ship? No. They got out through a tunnel to neighboring mosque. You know, one of those buildings run by Islamic religious leaders. You know, the ones that are not preaching peace? Those are the people that keep stirring this crap up, and make the embassy bombers, the hijackers, the journalist beheaders and the people that blow up kids in restaurants feel comfortable and morally correct. The religious leaders are the problem, and their peers aren't doing enough to showcase that hypocrisy to the world. Every time one of these pro-suicide clowns gets airtime on Al Jazeera, 100 more rational clerics should be screaming from the rooftops about how evil they are. Coverage differences does not account for the comparative silence from those quarters. You know it, they know it, and the people throwing firebombs at embassies over cartoons know it.
          • Re:Cartoons (Score:5, Informative)

            by radish (98371) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @01:15PM (#14678840) Homepage
            Where are the clerics denouncing the suicide bombers and those who send them?

            Well, here [bbc.co.uk] are some and here [bbc.co.uk] are some more. The latter is particularly telling, it contains quotes from a group of over 500 clerics in the UK shortly after the London bombings:

            "On behalf of over 500 clerics, scholars and Imams the British Muslim Forum issues the following religious decree:

            Islam strictly, strongly and severely condemns the use of violence and the destruction of innocent lives.

            There is neither place nor justification in Islam for extremism, fanaticism or terrorism. Suicide bombings, which killed and injured innocent people in London, are haram - vehemently prohibited in Islam, and those who committed these barbaric acts in London are criminals not martyrs.

            Such acts, as perpetrated in London, are crimes against all of humanity and contrary to the teachings of Islam.

            The Holy Koran declares:

            "Whoever kills a human being, then it is as though he has killed all mankind; and whoever saves a human life, it is as though he had saved all mankind." (Koran, Surah al-Maidah (5), verse 32).

            Islam teaches us to be caring towards all of Allah's (God's) creation, not just mankind. The Prophet of Islam who was described as "a mercy to the worlds" said: "All creation is the family of Allah and that person is most beloved to Allah who is kind and caring towards His family."

            Islam's position is clear and unequivocal: murder of one soul is the murder of the whole of humanity; he who shows no respect for human life is an enemy of humanity.

            We pray for the defeat of extremism and terrorism in the world.

            We pray for peace, security and harmony to triumph in multicultural Great Britain."
        • Re:Cartoons (Score:3, Insightful)

          by lbrandy (923907)
          "Faux news" isn't the one telling me what jihad means. That would be Osama Bin Ladin et al. You really need to start blaming the correct people for the poor interpretation of the religion of Islam. Fox News isn't the one who killed 16 people over a fake Newsweek story about a Quran. Fox news isn't the one killing 10+ people and burning multiple embassies over a partially faked political cartoon in a Danish newspaper. Fox news isn't the one who flew planes into buildings, bombed a nightclub in Bali, or two s
    • Let's see here... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by d3ac0n (715594) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:49AM (#14677614)
      Cartoon is published that accuses my religion of supporting terrorism and violence.

      I protest that characterization by calling for or comitting acts of terrorism and violence, both in the real world, and on the internet.

      Nope, no hypocrisy here!
    • And the moral of the story is: zealotry, of any variety = bad.

      Beware those who are devoid of tolerance.
    • by RobotRunAmok (595286) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:50AM (#14677631)
      ...it's a good thing it's not fundamentalist Christians doing the rioting.

      That would be indefensible by the media.

      Hey, come to think of it, there really isn't a lot of that rioting and setting-things-ablaze-for-days thing at all here in The West. Why d'you suppose that is?

      g'head, g'head, discuss this amongst yourselves...
      • by smellsofbikes (890263) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:50PM (#14678489) Journal
        If a bunch of Christians in the US started burning down buildings (rather than just picketing films they find offensive, like they did for The Last Temptation Of Christ) they'd be treated like Eric Randolph has been: hunted down, arrested, lose their jobs, their houses... but when you're living in tarpaper shacks you don't have the money to purchase, in a society where other people can't afford to sue you for violating the civil rights they don't have anyway, what's to lose by burning down some buildings?

        To put it another way, the single best way of pacifying a community is giving people something to lose. Nothing turns someone who doesn't think deeply into a peaceful person as quickly as possessions.
    • Re:Cartoons (Score:5, Funny)

      by dr_dank (472072) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:52AM (#14677654) Homepage Journal
      Attack: Cartoon
      Defense: Death threats, burn down buildings, deface websites, protests, and the list goes on.


      If those defenses worked, Cathy would have been off the comic pages years ago.
    • Re:Cartoons (Score:3, Insightful)

      by TopShelf (92521)
      Well, using that same logic, this example [cnn.com] would justify a US-led retaliation, right?

      Seriously, there is a disturbing lack of perspective and proportionality amongst these savages. Yes, savages, because that is exactly what the extreme nutjobs (those making the death threats [smh.com.au]) are - xenophobic troglodytes who can't tolerate any conduct by others that violates their strict code.
    • if it were a movie? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by FooAtWFU (699187) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:00PM (#14677767) Homepage
      If it were about a movie, they'd track down the director, shoot him eight times, slit his throat, and stab him in the chest, leaving two knives in his chest, one of which pins down a five-page note threatening Western governments in general [wikipedia.org] ... but that's just judging from past performances, and we all know how well those indicate future results.

      You know, the usual.

    • Re:Cartoons (Score:5, Insightful)

      by macwhizkid (864124) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:08PM (#14677900)
      Conclusion: Overkill?

      Yeah, but as a friend of mine (who is actually over in the Middle East) puts it: "This whole [Danish/Muslim] dispute is simply a lightning rod for a backward theocratic movement which is unable to successfully compete in a modern world of ideas and business."

      In other words, it's like when you fight with your wife over the dishes. You're not really fighting about the dishes; it's just the symptom that manifests to indicate a deeper issue.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:44AM (#14677531)
    Why can't they deface web pages out of boredom and bloody mindedness like normal people.
  • by twilightzero (244291) <.mrolfs. .at. .gmail.com.> on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:44AM (#14677533) Homepage Journal
    I wonder how long it'll be we're just all at war...seems to be what they want.

    I mean seriously, if a supermarket had a sale on steak and put up cartoons of Vishnu, you wouldn't see Hindus violently protesting. Neither if they had a sale on pork and put cartoons in the window of YHWH.

    People need to take a serious chill pill...
    • by Spy Handler (822350) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:55AM (#14677684) Homepage Journal
      You just made a comparison, saying that Hindus or Jews would not be reacting violently in a similar situation.

      But then you seem to restrain yourself from saying outright, that Muslims are freaking savages. Even though you did mention that "war seems to be what they want". I guess you were about to say what was on your mind, but political correctness and liberal virtues so cherished on Slashdot made you refrain.

      Well, I'll say it for you. Too many Muslims are freaking savages. Yeah I'm sure there are peaceful and civilized ones out there, but if you look at the ratio of peaceful citizens to raving nuts and compare it to that of Christian nations or Buddhist nations or Shinto nations or whatever, you can't help but come to the conclusion that Muslim, as it exists in the real world today (and not in theory), is a barbaric, violent, repressive religion.
      • by patryn20 (812091) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:11PM (#14677932)
        You have to look at their current stage of cultural development. In the past, Christianity and Judaism were barbaric religions. Generally they became this way after gaining too much power and a large following, then they slowly moved back towards moderation. This move to moderation occurred after members of the faith began to sponsor the changes in religious culture. They began to embrace the sharing of ideas and freedom of expression of those ideas, even at great danger to themselves. The Islamic religion is still in its "terrible twos" so to speak. They are at the same stage that Christians were in during the crusades and inquisition. Until their societies and cultures move past the embracing of religious ideals over social ideals, they will continue to be this way.
      • you can't help but come to the conclusion that Muslim, as it exists in the real world today (and not in theory), is a barbaric, violent, repressive religion.

        Whatever happened to Islam? What went wrong? I remember reading about old Baghdad, of the culture of the Arabian Nights, of the Arab astronomers who gave us half the names of our stars, of their preservation of the knowledge of old through the dark age of Europe, and their continual improvement upon it. About Richard and Saladin. About the glorious cu

  • joke time (Score:3, Funny)

    by Geekboy(Wizard) (87906) <spamboxNO@SPAMtheapt.org> on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:46AM (#14677573) Homepage Journal
    Q: How do you know your religion is the wrong one?
    A: When you riot because of a one panel cartoon.
    • Re:joke time (Score:3, Informative)

      by FooAtWFU (699187)
      Joke time? Well, the one about Stop, stop, we have run out of virgins! [humaneventsonline.com] was pretty danged funny, if you ask me...
  • by Omnifarious (11933) * <`eric-slash' `at' `omnifarious.org'> on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:47AM (#14677582) Homepage Journal

    That has the Muhammed with a bomb in his turban, a molitav cocktail in his hand and a machine gun slung over his back, with a crazed expression saying "That will teach them not to depict me and my followers as violent and intolerant.". In the backround there should be an embassy burning and lots of burning pieces of paper flying around with the words 'defaced website' on them.

    For good measure, we could have a cartoon of Jesus using thumbscrews or having sex or something too. I'd host it. I think those cartoons would make an excellent worldwide protest against this sort of idiotic behavior.

    • by deman1985 (684265) <dedwards&kappastone,com> on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:16PM (#14678017) Homepage
      For good measure, we could have a cartoon of Jesus using thumbscrews or having sex or something too
      Exactly! While I myself, as a Christian, would find such a cartoon offensive and blasphemous, I'm not about to go on a riot or resort to violence as a means of having it removed or as retaliation. You have a right to freedom of expression and freedom of press, and I have a right to not look at said cartoons. If it were a particularly offensive cartoon published in the newspaper, the most I might do is write a letter to the editor expressing my opinion of the cartoon and requesting they not produce such cartoons in the future. It's their choice if they continue to do so. I just might not buy that paper in the future. It's as simple as that.

      The fact that a series of harmless cartoons released by one independent newspaper, which I assume to be owned by a private corporation, was enough to set off such a widespread violent reaction in Muslim countries just goes to show why the world as a whole has such a negative view of the Muslim religion and Islam as a whole. Perhaps if they would've simply left well enough alone or gone about their protests in a peaceful, diplomatic way, the cartoons would've stopped long ago. At the very least, they might have gained some respect and reputation as a peaceful religion. Instead, they've reinforced the very image which sparked the protest in the first place.
  • this has to stop (Score:5, Interesting)

    by slackaddict (950042) <rmorgan@openaddictPARIS.com minus city> on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:47AM (#14677587) Homepage Journal
    The muslim world HAS to learn to play nicely with the rest of the world or face becoming marginalized. There's only so many times people can read about young girls being gang raped to punish their brother or young girls being forced to stay inside a burning building because they don't have their headgear on... not to mention all of the totally innocent contractors, journalists and students that are murdered for doing their job or even going to school. Where are the women's rights groups?!?!? Where are the "peaceful" muslims?
  • very sad (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Surt (22457) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:48AM (#14677594) Homepage Journal
    It used to be possible to defend Islam to the right wingers in this country (USA) by saying that the terrorism and violence were coming from a relatively tiny number of the practicers of that faith with a very screwed up idea of what that faith meant. No more. Between the raging violence in France and the widespread violence and death threats coming from these cartoons, who can reasonably defend Islam as nonviolent any more?
    • Re:very sad (Score:5, Insightful)

      by aussie_a (778472) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:53AM (#14677660) Journal
      It use to be possible to say that Australians were a peaceful and laid back people. But since the riots in Sydney over the lawful arrest and conviction of some criminals, how can anyone possibly defend Australians?

      Bad people do bad things. It doesn't matter if they're Muslim, American or Buddist. I'll defend every muslim who doesn't participate in a riot and related actions until they're either all killed, or I die.
  • Provocation? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by overshoot (39700) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:48AM (#14677596)
    I wonder what's going on here? It sounds too much like the "spontaneous demonstrations" that have been happening the last several days. Someone is playing a calculated game here, and it's not only unclear what they're up and who's the prime mover; it's not clear which "side" is stirring the pot [1].

    Well, time to start the popcorn since I can't do much but watch. [1] Don't worry -- I won't let the tinfoil hat mess up the microwave popcorn.

    • wonder what's going on here? It sounds too much like the "spontaneous demonstrations" that have been happening the last several days. Someone is playing a calculated game here, and it's not only unclear what they're up and who's the prime mover; it's not clear which "side" is stirring the pot [1].

      I've heard Iran may be playing games here, because of their predicament with the UN and their nuclear developments. Supposedly Denmark will be rotating to take control of whatever UN council Iran will be "brought i
  • by YodaToad (164273) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:49AM (#14677613)
    So they're getting all bent out of shape about a comic depicting them as violent and what do they do to protest the comic? They get violent, start riots and deface things.

    Seems a bit counter-productive to me.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:50AM (#14677622)
    The cartoons were published in September, protests happened in the last couple of weeks. Speed? Not much. What is more astonishing is the extent to which muslims have been shown to be prone to manipulation (on par or worse than the manipulation seen in the US post-9/11). I suppose that is the inherent power of mass religion, "the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions."
  • bloggers... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:52AM (#14677651)
    You find out the cartoons have already been circulating widely in the muslims world during height of ramadan in Oct 05. Next, you find out a Danish Immam invader added more cartoons to the bunch. Then you find out the Danes will head the security council in the near future. What makes it even more funny, is your own western papers ( not knowing the cartoons were circulated in the islamic world without riots ) then turn around and censor the cartoons to the american public -- out of multicultural sensitivity.

    -----

    The Ranting Sandmonkey, an Egyptian blog, illustrates just how bogus the MSM refusal to discuss the Danish cartoons "out of respect for Islam" is:

    Freedom For Egyptians reminded me why the cartoons looked so familiar to me: they were actually printed in the Egyptian Newspaper Al Fagr back in October 2005. I repeat, October 2005, during Ramadan, for all the egyptian muslim population to see, and not a single squeak of outrage was present. Al Fagr isn't a small newspaper either: it has respectable circulation in Egypt, since it's helmed by known Journalist Adel Hamoudah. Looking around in my house I found the copy of the newspaper, so I decided to scan it and present to all of you to see.

    ------

    'The past as prologue'

    http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]
  • by putko (753330) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:52AM (#14677652) Homepage Journal
    The cartoons were published in Egypt, and there was no problem:

    http://egyptiansandmonkey.blogspot.com/2006/02/boy cott-egypt.html [blogspot.com]

    Anyone heard about this? Looks like there is a double-standard.
  • by Kohath (38547) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:53AM (#14677663)
    There's no genuine anger about the cartoons. They were published 6 months ago.

    The cartoons are just an excuse. The cartoon riots are about rioting, not about cartoons. Rioters riot for fun and profit. Protests are arranged to gain political power for the people arranging them.

    Web sites are defaced for the same reason bricks are thrown through windows. It's the same reason Reginald Denny [wikipedia.org] was beat up. It's a combination of hate and the idea that "we can get away with it this time".

    I advise not enabling the rioters and web-page defacers by giving them what they want: attention, concessions, etc.
  • by stinerman (812158) <nathan.stine@NosPaM.gmail.com> on Thursday February 09, 2006 @11:56AM (#14677698) Homepage
    I certainly respect the Muslims who feel offended, but if they are going to live in a liberal democracy, they're going to have to just accept the fact that they're going to be offended.

    I'm agnostic. I get offended when my state's motto is "With God, all things are possible". I don't like hearing "God Bless America" every time George Bush opens his mouth. I do understand I live in a country with religious freedom, and I'm just going to have to take it. If I can't take it anymore, I'll move to a country that supresses religious liberties.

    Many of the European Muslims think they can get the good benefits of a liberal democracy (decent jobs, market-based economy), while asking for special status for their religious beliefs. Someone needs to tell them part of living in a liberal democracy is having thick skin.
  • by FidelCatsro (861135) * <fidelcatsro AT gmail DOT com> on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:05PM (#14677842) Journal
    Salt Lake city, Utah USA, Feb. 6 -- Mormon anger over Belgian cartoons that satirized the Prophet Joseph Smith continued to swell across the American East and elsewhere in the State of Utah on Monday, turning silly in Salt lake city, where at least five protesters Cried and more than a dozen police officers and protesters were Bored.

    UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan expressed alarm about the riots and urged restraint. But Biscuit giant Utah, which is reviewing trade ties with countries that published the cartoons, vowed to respond to "an anti-Mormon and Mormophobic Meanies ."

    Some of the cartoons depict Smith as a Saxophonist. One image depicts the prophet wearing a Stetson shaped as a boob with an erect nipple.The other image Displays The Prophet wearing special Mormon Magic Diapers

    Ministers from 17 Mormon cities on Tuesday urged Belgium's government to punish the newspaper for what they described as an "offence to Mormon".
    Reporters Without Borders said the reaction in the Mormon world "betrays a lack of understanding" of press freedom as "an essential accomplishment of piss taking."

    It is OK for Mormon Newspapers to depict Cartoons of Belgians eating Polish Sausage , but when a Belgian draws an Image about Joseph Smith It becomes an international crisis :Said Director of Freedom to draw stuff , Tobias Bunfun
  • Media (Score:5, Interesting)

    by kevin_conaway (585204) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:10PM (#14677929) Homepage
    I wonder if the media has an agenda here?

    See this comment made earlier today:

    ... The best way of manipulating the public is to supress your reasonable opponents and exaggerate the unreasonable opponents. It's a subtle variation on a straw-man argument. If the only people the public sees oppose you are lunatics, it makes it much easier for them to believe yours is the only reasonable course of action. .. [slashdot.org]

    That particularly rung true to me because I like to digest information in quick hits. I like to check out the summaries of news items and if something is interesting, hear some commentary on it and dig a little deeper.

    If all the headlines are "Muslims have taken hostages in..." or "A radical Islamic group exploded...", then people become conditioned to believe that Muslims and Islam are violent when they really aren't.

    In a thread a while back, someone made a fantastic observation about Africa. The general premise was that most people still think that the entire continent of Africa is nothing more than corrupt leaders and starving children and this viewpoint was partly blamed on the media and mostly blamed on the influx and inundation of "Save the children" commericals in the 1990s.
  • by Fishstick (150821) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:13PM (#14677968) Journal
    1) Draw cartoon, publish
    2) Angry mobs burn take to streets burning stuff
    3) ???
    4) Prophet!!!
  • by o'reor (581921) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:46PM (#14678440) Journal
    [This is the kind of news we are unlikely to see, at least until pigs learn to fly carpets.]

    Angry Mobs of Cartoonists Set Syrian And Arabian Embassies Ablaze

    COPENHAGEN, DENMARK -- Today, several demonstrations led by angry cartoonists turned into violent riots in downtown Copenhagen. The police forces proved incapable of preventing the rioters from attacking the embassies of the countries where the cartoons pbulished in "Jyllands Posten" were considered offensive. The embassies of Syria, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia were ransacked by mobs on the rampage before being set on fire in the name of freedom of expression.

    "We are absolutely outraged that those people took offense at our artwork", said one of the leading rioters. "We demand sanctions from their governments to punish such disrespect !".

    The local authorities have declined to comment on the apparent idleness of the police forces towards the rioters. Denmark, which is considered a rogue state by the Middle-East countries, is accused of inciting those riots as a retaliation to the Mid-Eastern embargo on Danish Blue that started last week, following the publication of the cartoons.

  • A Danies viewpoint (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jandersen (462034) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:58PM (#14678597)
    Allow me to comment on this as a Danish citizen.

    What happened was

    A Danish newspaper, who have been at the forefront of an ongoing hetz against immigrants and especially muslims, published a number of cartoons depicting Mohammed in ways that can only have been meant to express contempt. Further, if you have been following Danish news, you will know just how vitriolic and hatefilled the debate has been there for a very long time; and this is prominent politicians we're talking about. This has even been commented on in foreign news, with horror and disgust. To a moslem depicting the profet is totally forbidden, apparently, which the newspaper in question certainly knew; and not surprisingly a group of Danish moslems vented their anger in their home countries.

    Personally I think it could have been defused then and there if the newspaper or the prime minister had had the decency and backbone to simply apologize; after all, there is such a thing as simple politeness, and no one would need to give up fundamental freedoms etc. How much would it actually have cost anybody if our PM had said something like: 'It is not Danish policy to insult people of other cultures, and I apologize for the distress these insensitive pictures have been published. However, I can not dictate what the newspapers print'? Not a thing.

    Instead there has been a load of stilted nonsense about 'freedom of speech' - what a load of crap. Freedom is not the right to get away with whatever you do - there is a responsibility for all your actions as there should be. If you kick a hornets' nest, you'll get stung.

    So, to sum it up: Denmark is festering in xenophobia and inflamed rhetoric; a newspaper decides to try to cash in on stirring up the shit and behave a spoiled brat; instead of being mature and apologize, the West is spiteful. Whatever one may think of the moslem world, this is simply not an honourable way to behave.
    • by truckaxle (883149) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @02:22PM (#14679647) Homepage
      Yes, but why give Islam some special status here. I see contempt for the Christianity in many publications including evening sitcoms. This is offensive to Christians. So in your view should Editors, Presidents, Prime Ministers start off every morning apologizing for freedom of thought and expression that may have occured in the prior day.

      If you kick a hornets' nest, you'll get stung.

      So we should make our freedom's subject to the fear of reprisals. The Hamas leader said that if someone would have been successful in acting on the Ayatollah's fatah to kill the Novelist S. Rushdie then these cartoon would not happen.

      Whatever one may think of the moslem world, this is simply not an honourable way to behave.

      And burning embassies and issueing death threats to cartoonist for lines on a piece of paper is? Actually the death and kidnapping threats extended to any citizen from the countries that published these cartoons regardless of affiliation.

      I sure hope you do not represent the average Danish thinking.
  • I live in Denmark... (Score:3, Informative)

    by spectrokid (660550) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @12:59PM (#14678605) Homepage
    and would like to point out the one group of muslims which is NOT tearing down the house: those living in... Denmark. Not a single demonstration yet. They know what they have to lose. From the Cyber-angle: the foreign ministry is mounting a counter attack: arab-speaking danes are flooding chat-sites and sending SMS messages all over the middle east to try and counter the unbelievable crap which is spread this way. Chatsites right now are full with rumors that we are depicting the prophet as a pig, violently beating down demonstrations,burning the koran... So now we have government employees payed to counter-flood with more realistic descriptions of the situation in site .DK. Talk about cyber-warfare...
  • by RexRhino (769423) on Thursday February 09, 2006 @01:03PM (#14678672)
    I generally think we should respect religion... and not go out of our way to insult it.

    But, the thing is, too many religions are also political philosophies. Once you bring your religion into politics, your religion should be fair game for ridicule, insult, or any sort of nasty speech. Islam, (as well as Christianity, but I could go on and on about that, so I will leave it out of this post), is also a political ideology. It is being used as a basis for laws, for systems of government... Heck, even where I live in Canada people are pushing to have Sharia Law enforced in family courts!!!

    Once you cross that line, then watch out. There is nothing wrong with insulting Islam as a political ideology, any more than there is anything wrong with insulting Socialism, or Capitalism, or Facism, or Communism. There is nothing wrong with making an insulting cartoon of Muhammad, than making an insulting cartoon of G. W. Bush. It is all part of free political discourse. Political satire is a of democracy and free expression.

    If you don't want your religion insulted, then don't try to force your religious ideals on me through the political system. If you are promoting Intelligent Design, or Sharia Law, or anything else on me and at my expense through the political system, I have a right to call out your retarded political philosophy.

    Instead of defacing websites, any person who is upset about having their ideology insulted should adopt the lifestyle of the 5th century from which Islamic philosophy began... That way they will not have to be exposed to a diverse global media of the 21st century. If you are going to adopt an ancient political ideology, you need an economic system and technologic lifestyle that is compatible with your belief system. It has worked pretty well for the Amish and Mennonites.

Men love to wonder, and that is the seed of science.

Working...