Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Microsoft Security

MS Patches Go For Quality Over Quantity? 225

greengrass writes "eWeek.com is running a story about another Microsoft 'study'. This one discusses how good Microsoft is at providing patches for their OS. This is Part 2 of 3 in a series of articles, the first of which compared Linux and Windows on legacy systems." From the article: "Bill Hilf, who is director of Platform Technology Strategy at Microsoft and heads its Linux and open-source lab, told eWEEK in a recent interview that 'the differentiator for customers is not the number comparison, but which vendor makes the patching and updating experience the least complex, most efficient and easiest to manage.'"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

MS Patches Go For Quality Over Quantity?

Comments Filter:
  • More M$ Hooey (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TripMaster Monkey ( 862126 ) * on Friday January 13, 2006 @11:36AM (#14463667)

    Microsoft Corp. seems to be moving away from focusing on the actual number of security patches and updates that it and its software competitors release.

    But of course they are...since Joe Brockmeier and Joe Barr of NewsForge [newsforge.com], as well as Pamela Jones of Groklaw [groklaw.net] did such a masterful job of debunking the ridiculous annual summary of vulnerabilities by US-CERT [us-cert.gov] (discussed earlier on Slashdot [slashdot.org]), Microsoft has necessarily had to switch propaganda tactics.

    Instead, it is concentrating on making it easy and efficient for customers to obtain the security fixes and update their systems.

    That's funny...I've never had a problem with my Yast Online Update...

    "...patching, particularly for security, is not a 'Microsoft problem,' but something that affects all operating system and platform vendors," Hilf said.

    Nice straw man, Hilf. No one is claiming that non-Microsoft operating systems don't need to be patched. The issue is whether the patches are issued in a timely manner...or not [microsoft.com].
  • It may be good.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 13, 2006 @11:37AM (#14463677)
    It may be good to have lots of patches, but once you have a car where the duct tape weighs more than any other parts combined, isn't it time to just get another car?
  • Efficient? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by IceCreamGuy ( 904648 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @11:38AM (#14463691) Homepage
    I wouldn't normally think of 4 hours and 6 zillion reboots as "efficient" or "easy". -Julius
  • Uh, no. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Benanov ( 583592 ) <[brian.kemp] [at] [member.fsf.org]> on Friday January 13, 2006 @11:40AM (#14463715) Journal

    How about, which vendor makes the patches unnecessary (i.e., few and far between) because it released a solid, working program?

    I don't want patch quality. I want program quality.

    I work in proprietary software. Most places that do proprietary software are overworked and quality suffers. (EA is an extreme example where workplace quality suffered as well as program quality.)

    In the places I've worked, everyone's too busy doing what they've been assigned and they're overworked because they're understaffed. Hiring more people means less money for the company so that generally doesn't happen.

    With FOSS, anyone can pick up the source if they have some spare time and hack away at it, and even if individual contributions are small, there's always someone with some spare time and a different view about how something should work.

    Once you start doing for money's sake, you spend more time worrying about your bottom line than about quality.

  • by sam1am ( 753369 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @11:43AM (#14463738)
    ..which vendor makes the patching and updating experience the least complex, most efficient and easiest to manage.
    And here I was looking for the vendor that would keep my systems the most secure. Silly me.
  • Yeah because (Score:1, Insightful)

    by masklinn ( 823351 ) <.slashdot.org. .at. .masklinn.net.> on Friday January 13, 2006 @11:44AM (#14463750)

    the differentiator for customers is not the number comparison, but which vendor makes the patching and updating experience the least complex, most efficient and easiest to manage.

    Yeah, because typing "apt-get update" and "apt-get upgrade" once in a while is so damn hard to manage.

  • by Tony ( 765 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @11:47AM (#14463781) Journal
    If the rumors of Vista are true and it is an efficient and secure operating system that can function in plain jane deterministic manners, then I want it dual booting with Linux and nothing more ... ever.

    Those rumours have preceded every version of MS-Windows since NT 3.51 (the most secure and stable version of MS-Windows to date, in my experience). I've stopped waiting for MS to produce an exceptional operating system. There are much, much better alternatives out there -- OS X, Linux, *BSD, Solaris, etc. What's the point of waiting for MS to play catch-up?

    I'm interested in seeing Vista in action. I'll probably take a look when someone at work here picks it up. I don't hold out a lot of hope that it will beat the stability of Solaris, the ease-of-use and consistency of OS X, or the openness and general all-over chocolatey goodness of Linux and *BSD.

    Let's see if they still group programs by vendor, and not by function.
  • least complex? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ScislaC ( 827506 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @11:47AM (#14463785)
    "but which vendor makes the patching and updating experience the least complex"
    I will say that Windows Update was better than anything else I had seen when it was initially introduced (I will admit to not having used Linux then though). However, any modern distros I've used (Ubuntu & Suse most recently) actually have a far LESS complex patch and update mechanism... because they patch all of the software and libraries as well, not just the OS. And they do it the same way as windows with a little notifier in the system tray (yeah, they don't autoinstall as far as I've seen, but, a couple clicks doesn't add to complexity as far as I'm concerned). Just my .02 on that part...
  • by Chicane-UK ( 455253 ) <chicane-uk@@@ntlworld...com> on Friday January 13, 2006 @11:54AM (#14463858) Homepage
    Reading that article made such a refreshing change compared to the Microsoft 'propaganda' stories we usually get linked to. eWeek gave Linux vendors the chance to answer and explain all of the figures which seemed to side with Microsoft - and invairiably once dissected, the usual Microsoft massaging of figures clearly comes to light.

    One great example was this:


    Interestingly, Microsoft's Hilf has a personal Red Hat workstation in his office that he uses on a daily basis. He selected a random week in October to provide a snapshot of the updates made to his Red Hat Enterprise Linux workstation over that period. He found that, between Oct. 6, 2005, and Oct. 11, 2005, his workstation was updated 66 times.

    "I chose those dates randomly," he said. "I use this system daily, so it was literally a snapshot of a given workweek. All this illustrates is that patching and updating are part of any 'living' software system. It is part of the nature of modern software: Things change, bugs happen, features get added, and software needs to get updated."

    But Red Hat's Cox pointed out that the second update release for RHEL4 was issued Oct. 5, resulting in a very large number of updated packages over the period of a day or two, "which is what Hilf saw. We only issued two Update releases for RHEL4 in 2005, so he was quite unlucky in his choice of a random snapshot," he said, tongue in cheek.



    Unlucky indeed. Nice to see some unbiased reporting and not just verbatim duplication of Microsoft comments and 'press releases' for a change.
  • Re:More M$ Hooey (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TripMaster Monkey ( 862126 ) * on Friday January 13, 2006 @11:56AM (#14463881)

    What about Cox's boasting that Red Hat took the initiative to notify its users about the Flash issue?

    This quote sums it up nicely:

    From TFA (emphasis mine):
    In late 2005 when flaws were found in Macromedia's Flash Player, Red Hat took responsibility for providing users with a vulnerable version of the Flash plug-in and made an update available, he [Cox] said.
    How far does it go?

    Basically, if you are the one to provide the software, you are responsible for getting the patches to the users. This is one big reason the *nixes performance in US-CERT's annual summary of vulnerabilities appeared so poor...because the *nixes were also issuing patches for all the software that came bundled with the OS.

  • by ReTay ( 164994 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @12:01PM (#14463921)
    IF Linux is as stable as you make out, and you want "nothing more...ever", then why not make it - or Windows for that matter - available as a chipset, like the good ol' BBC Microcompuetr of yesteryear...?

    Because like any operating system you will eventually want to add something to the machine like a newer video card.... Or a new codex and then what happens when you turn off the machine? But even three seconds of thought would have told you that.
    Eventually you (gasp) might even want to try a new distro....
    For crying out loud talk about vendor lock...
  • by Alioth ( 221270 ) <no@spam> on Friday January 13, 2006 @12:02PM (#14463927) Journal
    Why does everything have to be a such-and-such "experience". I don't want a patching experience at all, I want to have it happen in such a way that it's a non experience. They make it sound like it should be a movie or a fun fair by calling everything a such-and-such "experience"!
  • Re:More M$ Hooey (Score:5, Insightful)

    by m50d ( 797211 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @12:02PM (#14463930) Homepage Journal
    One difference - you mention office, but I suspect most software on a typical user's machine is not covered by windows update. Wheras as a gentoo user, everything on my machine is updated with one command. MS is doing well looking after their own products, but any application can compromise the system - they should try and get every windows program vendor using windows update.
  • Re:Uh, no. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Hiro Antagonist ( 310179 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @12:03PM (#14463936) Journal
    It's not money that's the problem; it's a devotion to accruing every possible unit of negotiable currency that causes the problem. There are a lot of businesses, most of them privately held, that make 'slightly less' than a ton of money by doing something different, and caring about the customer instead of the bottom line.

    Public companies don't have this luxury; they have to care about 'the bottom line', because they are responsible to their shareholders before they are responsible to their customers. In a private company, the customer comes first and foremost, and the difference in quality is measurable.

    Look at BMW and Mercedes --- BMW is privately owned, and whether or not their styling appeals to you, it would be hard to argue that they aren't top-notch in terms of quality, funtionality, and service. Mercedes, on the other hand, canned the complimentary service option a few years ago[1], and offers far less 'bang-for-the-buck' in the luxury car market.

    [1] It used to be that purchasing a luxury automobile meant that the manufacturer would stand behind your purchase in every conceivable way, and complimentary maintainence was a part of this package. Mercedes used to be very good at this, and had one of the best service packages in the industry. Now, you get to pay for your own service to go along with your top-of-the-market-priced car, and the build quilty has been nickel-and-dimed below that of a Nissan. Sad to see such a nice car company go down the tubes.
  • by ZombieRoboNinja ( 905329 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @12:10PM (#14464007)
    "IN MY OPINION, the largest thing Microsoft has to fear is a perfectly secure operation system they have created and distributed throughout the world. This is because they will no longer have "upgrades" or new versions of Windows to offer costumers."

    Just to play devil's advocate, Apple's OS is largely bug-free and secure, and yet quite a few people pay cash money for an upgrade every year or so. This is presumably because each new release of OSX has enough cool features to give it some appeal, even without a bunch of critical security updates.

    Would Apple sell enough upgrades to make a profit if they weren't making money from hardware (and iPod) sales? Maybe not, but it's worth asking.
  • Re:Correction. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Mr. Underbridge ( 666784 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @12:12PM (#14464027)
    So if I plug in communications hardware from 2005 into an OS from 2000, and don't install drivers, it doesn't work? News at 11...
  • by ChetOS.net ( 936869 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @12:13PM (#14464036) Homepage
    It is interesting though. You say that each OS has its strengths that Vista might not have... but in effect you are pointing out that none of those OSes have all those strengths.

    If Vista can provide a good stability (which it should, XP is very stable), good ease-of-use, and "chocolately goodness", then it would be the best operating system for general consumption.
  • by Locutus ( 9039 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @12:28PM (#14464202)
    My gawd Jim, this is a marketing company for heavens sake! ( not sure why Dr McCoy came to mind...)

    Why would anybody think there is any truth to what the head of Microsofts anti-Linux group says?
    Do you think he might have a little motivation to make sure people THINK their OS smells like roses?
    I do.
    IMO

    But thankyou Mr Hilfe for making sure CIO's, CTO, etc know that Linux is on Microsofts mind. THAT,
    combined with what their employees are experiencing is great for your competition. :-)

    LoB
  • by penguin-collective ( 932038 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @12:30PM (#14464217)
    There is just one story after another about Microsoft "going for quality" and "Microsoft running on machines just as small as those Linux runs on", "Microsoft having fewer vulnerabilities according to some web site", and "Microsoft this" and "Microsoft that". If you read carefully, most of those stories were actually initiated by Microsoft.

    So, that makes me wonder: is this just the season for the Microsoft propaganda machine to become active? Or is Linux striking more fear than usual into their hearts?

"The four building blocks of the universe are fire, water, gravel and vinyl." -- Dave Barry

Working...