Trans-Atlantic ID Card System 428
Th3P0stalDud3 writes "The Independent is reporting that the U.S. has asked the U.K. to use the same chips in their proposed identity cards as the ones in our proposed identity card. In effect, creating a trans-atlantic ID card system." From the article: "The aim of getting the same microchip is to ensure compatability in screening terrorist suspects. But it will also mean that information contained in the British cards can be accessed across the Atlantic."
Re:Ter'ists are everywhere! (Score:4, Interesting)
this raises interesting questions about those counties that are members of the british commonwealth. Would this mean that in order for those countries to maintain the ease of movement they have now with other members of the commonwealth they would have to submit to U.S. rules on the IDs?
Re:Hey... (Score:4, Interesting)
Inconceivable! [downingstreetmemo.com]
(The only similarity is, when Shrub writes 2+2=5, he doesn't realise that's wrong, either).
Re:Ter'ists are everywhere! (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Hey... (Score:2, Interesting)
The UK's ID card scheme (Score:5, Interesting)
These cards will cost us all up to £93 ($150+) each, with profits from the scheme going to private companies. Everyone's personal details will be stored in one huge database, which can be accessed by a variety of government agencies. A recent trial of the biometric technology used in the cards showed that it was quite ineffective. The Government is nevertheless convincing the electorate that this is a good idea by playing on the fear of identity theft (which the cards won't help prevent) and fear of illegal immigrants.
There's a good (as ever) article about ID cards at The Register [theregister.co.uk].
Re:I hope I see some anti Bush comments (Score:3, Interesting)
The United States has historically been involved in a number of atrocities that it doesn't much like to bee remembered for; like any large state it has its share of skeletons that it doesn't like to see make the history texts.
Personally I think they make for interesting reading. When studied instead of buried they further emphasise the fact that freedom is maintained only through ongoing vigilance AGAINST OURSELVES AS WELL and not just external forces. Accusing one's own country of wrongdoing is never a good way to become popular, but it is absolutely necessary that this occur as often as the slightest suspicion arises and that we never rely on unquestioning acceptance of any leadership.
It's fun to titter and giggle about conspiracy theories and the number of the beast and so forth. But the fact is that a more invasive identification system is highly useful to a police state and tends by its very existance to invite violations of basic human rights, and that it is usually of very little use in protecting anyone.
Make sure the cash comes home (Score:3, Interesting)
Look at it like this. The US may have an awful lot of sheep that are having their freedom eroded by the political class, but the British are even more sheeplike. And all that the British prime minister gets out of this is the occasional phot with G Bush and a few well paid lecture tours after he finally gets the push - no oil billions. It reminds me of the sad comment of a member of the intelligence services: "It's depressing how little money some people will sell their country for."
Global Sellout (Score:3, Interesting)
Try again (Score:3, Interesting)
In this case we're getting worked into a lather about two countries trying to agree on a standard for their already issued government ID cards. The information contained in them is already accessible by the two governments. The only difference is that the border inspector can just swipe/scan instead of type to get that info.
So do please enlighten me as to how this is one giant step closer to the fascist big brother state?
Re:Here we go again... (Score:3, Interesting)
The ID card will also cost a lot of money, and bring no benefit to the holder. The holder essentially has to pay a lot of money for the benefit of the government (and we already pay handsomely for that).
"If you're not doing anything wrong..." Well, maybe now with the current government. Despots have spawned from democracy before now, and in any case I doubt you get through a day without breaking at least one law. I know I almost certainly don't - from accidentally speeding to perhaps taping a CD for the car. Once you have a police state, it's easy to arrest political opponents without needing any explicit political laws - you just harrass them on all the trivial little laws everyone in the land breaks daily. *Everyone* is doing something wrong some time.
Could I Bypass Passport Control? (Score:3, Interesting)
Might save a lot of time stacked up at passport control.
Re:Here we go again... (Score:3, Interesting)
I truly hope freedom loving Americans, Britons, Australians, Mexicans, Spaniards, French, Muslim, Jews, Christians, and every other person of any race, creed, color, or nationality will stand up against laws that do nothing but give those in power the power to stay in power and, ultimately, the ability to abuse those who don't believe they way they do, think the way they do, talk the way they do, practice the same religion they do, have the same blonde hair they do, or live in the same region they do. I'm not trying to doom and gloom, I just took a step back and thought about all that power in so few hands without checks and balances and the ability to quash those who speak out against them and asked "How would I handle it? How would most humans handle it?" Ask yourself the same and think about it -- with all that power, do you honestly think that even the most benign person could not be corrupted?
Re:Why not? (Score:3, Interesting)
More like less than 70 years, and Roosevelt was largely responsible: Lend-lease, an explicit US policy of replacing British Colonialism with US "influence",Bretton Woods and a US battleship sent to South Africa to impound British Gold Reserves pretty much ended Britain as an Economic power.
Re:I particularly like this bit (Score:4, Interesting)
It really shouldn't be that astonishing. We have more than once in our history gone from strong feelings of isolationism to OMG there is a world out there and it affects us, let's kick its ass.
Re:Best laugh I've had all day... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Stop with the privacy violating bandaids! (Score:5, Interesting)
My dad, Canadian, was crossing the border this winter to go camping, they stopped him and searched his camper, putting it through the fancy gamma scanner and everything.
Seems reasonable, right?
Except that while doing so they tried to arrest him, fingerprint him, and put him in a cell for the duration of the scan!
Now, my dad isn't an idiot, he knows he's done nothing wrong, he knows the border-crossing drill, having done it many many times before, and he just said "stop reading me my rights!", refused to be arrested for crossing the Canada/US border completely legally, with all the paerwork properly done.
They stopped their shenanigans, since they had NO REASON to arrest him, but I'm sure more gullible travelers are suckered into believing that this is right, else they'll be suspected of t3h 3v1l terrorism.
Now, I'm sorry, but you guys are obviously devolving into a fucking police state! Thomas Jefferson must be spinning in his grave .
Re:Best laugh I've had all day... (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's call it the Oceanian ID Card!
Re:Cue the Hand Wringing Masses!! (Score:5, Interesting)
More than you think, perhaps.
We can't carry large amounts of cash overseas. It's illegal: if you don't declare it, then when they find it during the strip searches, you're a terrorist or drug dealer and they confiscate it. If you do declare it, you're a terrorist or drug dealer and they confiscate it before the strip search.
Yes, I'm exaggerating, but not by as much as you think. It is illegal to take large amounts of cash out of the country without declaring it, and the government (usually local cops) will confiscate any large stashes of cash they find. They claim it's drug money, and charge the money with a crime [nacdl.org]. You have to prove that the money is innocent [kcstar.com] to get it back (scroll down to the bottom of that link).
No, I am not making any of that up.
So, you can carry travelers checks, you can carry your Visa, but you're taking a big risk if you carry cash. The really dangerous criminals are the ones in the uniforms.
Re:Cost... (Score:2, Interesting)
The cards will be a burden for "normal" people (they WILL be stolen/forged/abused) and a godsend for criminals (people smugglers, ID theft etc.)
Re:Holy crap: Bush admits spreading propaganda (Score:2, Interesting)
He actually said it. Ye gods. And you can tell how well they screen that audience - because they applauded him admitting use of reiterated propaganda.
Someone above disputed that Bush is stupid.
I think it's hubris, not simple everyday stupidity.
He got away with the invasion of Iraq and there are still MILLIONS of people who believe the WMD story, even after the whitehouse admitted there aren't any. Since he can get away not only with murder, but with tens of thousands of murders, there's no point in pretending that what he's doing isn't propaganda anymore, his followers obviously don't care.
Re:Best laugh I've had all day... (Score:2, Interesting)
Al-Queda diplomatic sources stated later that they did not wish to interfere in the domestic affairs of other countries*.
* Offer not valid in any non-Islamic-fundamentalist run country.
Identity is the thin edge of the wedge (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem is the information they choose to associate with the ID. And of course I don't just mean anything else stored on the card - any real info about you is stored on a central system and just keyed off your card.
But then these systems are already around, so perhaps fussing about the key used to access them is really a distraction?
further penalties introduced under the bill (Score:2, Interesting)
The Bill creates a score of new offences including;
Refusal to obey an order from the Secretary of State (6(4))
Failure to notify authorities about a lost, stolen, damaged or defective card (13(1))
Failure to renew a card (9(2))
failure to submit to fingerprinting (9(4)(b))
Failure to provide information demanded by the government (9(4)(d))
Failure to attend an interview at a specified place and time (9(4)(a))
Failure to notify the Secretary of State of any change in personal circumstances (including change of address) (12(1)).