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Spam Government The Courts News

Virginia Court Overturns Spammer Convictions 433

EvilStein writes "CNN reports that "A judge dismissed a felony spamming conviction that had been called one of the first of its kind, saying he found no "rational basis" for the verdict and wondering if jurors were confused by technical evidence." Legal groundwork being set? Will other convicted spammers now have grounds for an appeal?"
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Virginia Court Overturns Spammer Convictions

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  • by Jeff DeMaagd ( 2015 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @10:54PM (#11830594) Homepage Journal
    Look, spam is bad, but is it that hard to see a fine of $7500 for each piece of email is an unreasonable penalty? Would you also think that a $100,000 fine be appropriate for a person that stole $1?
  • The "car" example (Score:0, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @11:10PM (#11830689)
    When you buy a new car (substitute "email address" as you please), you expect that it will be clean and in working order. But as time wears on, problems will arise. You can stave off most of these problems by taking care to perform regular maintenance on it (for email addresses, this means taking precautions that it doesn't get picked up by spammers).

    But time takes its toll. At some point the car will be wracked by so many problems that it just isn't worth it to hang onto it and you go out and get another car. Sure, you can patch it up (add virus scanners), take it to the repair shop (run a spam filter), even keep it safely in the garage (use a whitelist), but after a certain amount of time, that car just ain't gonna run no more.

    Then you get a new one.

    Email addresses can't be considered permanent property. At some point they must be discarded and a new address acquired. It's just part of the cost of owning the email link.

    You don't complain if a car falls apart after 15 years. You can't complain if an email address becomes unusable after 2. These things just have limited lifespans.
  • by Dfasdf ( 414625 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @11:15PM (#11830726)
    yep.. case law can be pretty far reaching..

    for instance, in Canada we can use our own case law, and that of the UK as equal. US case law can also be use up here.. but not as a precedent..

    at least this is what I got from my law course in high school..
  • by Profane MuthaFucka ( 574406 ) <busheatskok@gmail.com> on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @11:17PM (#11830740) Homepage Journal
    You're not a lawyer are you? Well, I'm not either. But I know that your facts about mail aren't right. You not only have the right to refuse any mail, but you have the right to prevent any mail from being sent to you in the first place. The Supreme Court said so.

    If you find any piece of junk mail offensive, for example, woodworking catalogs, you can inform your local postmaster to prevent their delivery to your mailbox. What you find offensive is up to you, not anyone else, which is why I used the woodworking example rather than the Adam and Eve catalog in the example.

    E-mail is no different. I don't want penis enlargment material, because frankly I only have two normal sized hands. I should be able to prevent anyone trying to send me this stuff from connecting to my port 25. By force if necessary. Preferably, even.

  • ahh Virginia... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by coshx ( 687751 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @11:43PM (#11830873)
    ahh Virginia...

    Where drunk driving nets you a slap on the wrist (7 day license suspension, misdemeanor -- Virginia Driver's Manual [state.va.us] [pg. 30]) and spamming sends you to jail.

    I'm glad to see we have our priorities straight, and the dangerous people are being kept away from the rest of us.
  • Re:The "car" example (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Columcille ( 88542 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @12:30AM (#11831163)
    The problem here is that your new car is expected to receive wear and tear through normal operations. If someone throws stuff at your car, you make that someone pay for the damage. Spam is thrown at the email address and is not normal usage. Also generally speaking the work on the roads and cars is to make them safer and last longer. Spammers on the other hand continue to do their best to make sure they have more and more ways into your mailbox.

    If someone aggressively aged your car in the way spammers aggressively send out spam, you would have them in court in no time.
  • the whole spam thing (Score:2, Interesting)

    by hyperstation ( 185147 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @12:37AM (#11831198)
    okay lets sit back for a second...

    this has gotten *way* out of control. a lot of us are the same people who rail on the courts and police for locking up nonviolent drug offenders so that there will be room for the fuckers who really need to be in jail (baby rapers, murderers, kidnappers, the very at-large terrorist element).

    so why, oh why, are you upset that someone is NOT going to jail for commiting an utterly nonviolent offense? because you get some penis enlargement and get rich quick email? christ, use a filter. the place to hit these people is in the wallet, not the cornhole (as in pound-me-in-the-ass federal prison). if they're spamming, they're making untold millions of dollars - millions of dollars that can be snarfed up by the federal government.

    it has really struck me as entirely ludicrous that the most vocal people in the IT world have been calling for throwing these dickheads in jail, when most spam "victims" get themselves into this mess on their own. i get next to ZERO spam, and i really have never seen what the whole fuss is about. i'm careful about where my email address ends up, and as a last resort i have a good spam filter. gmail does a really good job also. i have 50 invites, so whoever has managed to not get one (i really don't know how anyone couldn't have a gmail account by now), shoot me a message and i'll get one to you pronto.

    really people, we have much much worse problems in the world than unsolicited email. the zealots over at spamhaus and spamcop and wherever else really make me chuckle, cuz the joke's on them. i'm glad this guy got off, and i hope they let every spammer that's in jail (i know there's a few) out so we can make room for more deserving scum.

    i'll also add this, for you aol and yahoo users: i work for a company that occasionally (NOT hardly the primary business model) sends out what you would call spam, but really these retards signed up for the special offer emails on their own. your ISP's; aol, yahoo, earthlink actually BARGAIN with with some ISP relations person at my company about how much and when they will send the users email, and then they make sure it gets through. i'm sure this happens all the time.

    the only person really responsible for keeping your inbox clean and crap-free is yourself.

    just my 2c
  • Re:Why can judges... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by hawk ( 1151 ) <hawk@eyry.org> on Thursday March 03, 2005 @12:59AM (#11831306) Journal
    > First, no court or judge can overturn a verdict
    >of "not guilty". That's the "double indemnity clause".

    Err, you mean "double jeapordy." "Double indemnity" refers to double payment on some insurance policies for violent death . . .

    >l say that every time I've been in a courtroom
    >the judges have been universally, absolutely
    >professional. I have never failed to be impressed
    >by a judge's common sense approach.

    I've seen them cross the professionalism line--but with one exception, it was in the name of common sense, and I agreed with them.

    hawk, esq.
  • by cpt kangarooski ( 3773 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @03:44AM (#11831946) Homepage
    If you can prove that there is a cost to you that you cannot avoid when they send the spam (getting junk mail isn't any appreciable cost to you in comparison to the cost to send the mail) then they do not have the right to send it.

    No, I don't believe that's true. Do you have a cite?
  • by cpt kangarooski ( 3773 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @04:11AM (#11832014) Homepage
    I think you may have forgoten to include your email address in your profile, or in your posts defending spam as free speech. Please post it so you can experience the full benefit of this particular form of "free speech" - you might then understand how ludicrous your position really is.

    I said that I think that the first amendment offers protection to spammers. I didn't say I wanted spam. I get enough already, and I don't like it. Indeed, I probably hate ads -- all ads -- more than most people here (I filter /. banner ads out for starters, and would gladly filter them from everywhere, even the real world, if I could).

    But this is the sort of thing that separates the men from the boys in the free speech arena; willingness to defend speech that's repulsive to you. I'm Jewish, and I'd defend the right of Nazis to speak. I hate ads, and I defend the rights of advertisers. It's the same thing. I understand that not everyone can do this, but that isn't really a good thing.

    Its not that others think you shouldn't be heard, but they think you are a turd.

    Fair enough.
  • by Steve Mitchell ( 3457 ) <steve@Nospam.componica.com> on Thursday March 03, 2005 @09:28AM (#11832978) Homepage
    It seems like a logical progression. I remember when Slashdot was "Chip'n Dip", and people mostly talked about computers and gadgets. Then as we approached the Great Internet Bubble, business related topics seemed to take over. Now that we've moved into post-Bubble recovery, focus has shifted to legal wranglings created by the after effects of the bubble or people desperately trying to make a quick buck like others once did.

    What's next? Articles about surviving the post-dollar crash depression? "Cob/Mud built houses aren't that bad after all.", "Welcoming our Chinese Overlords.", "Programming for Food? HTML for Handouts."

    -Steve
  • by shostiru ( 708862 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @09:44AM (#11833086)
    Free speech is free speech regardless of cost, and remember, both speaker and listener ALWAYS incur costs associated with speech in ALL forms, if only in time.

    Then, were it the case that the US postal service forcibly collected postage on mail sent postage due, you would argue there is no legal basis for objection?

    I run an ISP. A substantial portion of our money and time goes to maintaining mail servers due to the volume of spam we receive and filter. We have, at times, had our mail servers become completely unavailable to all our customers due to spam overload. Pardon me if I find your argument uncompelling.

    While I'm quite sympathetic to the Constitutional guarantee of free speech, and I absolutely oppose restraint on it when the sender pays the costs, I do not see anywhere in this document a guarantee of an audience, nor any support for the notion that the audience should be forced to subsidize that speech. You may not force a publisher or newspaper to publish your written works. You may not come onto my property and post signs or graffiti my home. I fail to see why this is conceptually different.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 03, 2005 @10:27AM (#11833419)
    I've yet to see anyone realize that equating spam with murder, child sex abuse, and rape is insane.

    Sure spam is annoying, but does it justify making the spammer into a felon? A felony conviction can make it impossible for you to get a job. You most certainly cannot get an apartment, and even your right to vote can be suspended depending on the state you live in.

    Like I said spam is annoying, but let's make the spam itself a misdemenor. If they sell a product that kills someone or con someone out of their life savings, then there are already laws to prosecute them for those things.

    Our society seems to make everything a felony. An 18 year old kid who gets caught with a certain amount of pot is made into a felon. His life is ruined, because of a teenage indiscretion. A dumbass kid decides to release a virus and caused some havok, but make him a felon? That's nuts.

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