HP to Region-code Cartridges 716
prostoalex writes "Looks like the printer cartridge manufacturers will be borrowing techniques from Hollywood. HP introduced region coding for some of the newest printers sold in Europe. HP's US location and US dollar sliding lead to the situation, where cartridge prices in Europe are significantly higher than those in the States. In the Wall Street Journal article HP representative in Europe claims the company doesn't make any money off regional coding for cartridges, and that consumers will win once the US dollar rises over Euro."
Greedy? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh.. and don't try to fool me into believing that you don't earn anything from catridges.
Why are they doing it? (Score:5, Insightful)
once ... (Score:2, Insightful)
if the US dollar rises over the Euro
Seriously, is it ethically correct that 100ml ink is more expensive than 100ml insulin?
Re:Why are they doing it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Classic spin.
Re:Why are they doing it? - What to get instead? (Score:3, Insightful)
So the big question is are there any non-Evil printer manufacturers out there?
Re:Dollar rising (Score:0, Insightful)
"This economic boom fueled by the technology sector will never end. It's the beginning of a New Economy, and the cycles of bust and boom are forever gone."
Funny how long that lasted.
You're never on top forever. Be you America, Russia, or the European Union.
Globalisation (Score:1, Insightful)
Mental note to self... (Score:4, Insightful)
Buy Canon...
This'll also save me time from taping of my 40ml black cartridges to use on my HP Deskjet 970C, instead of the default 20ml ones...
consumers are only in the US ? (Score:3, Insightful)
As currency fluctuates there will *always* be winners and losers in this scheme.
One year it's cheaper to import ink from the US at their price, the next cheaper for USians to import EU ink.
What next? Region encoded GM rice ?
Comsumers lose (Score:5, Insightful)
I call bullshit on this. You always introduce regions to make consumers pay more than before (in total), hence the consumers lose. Naturally, some customers pay less than others (how else could it be price discrimination), but overall that is simply false.
Kjella
Re:There is a probe by EC into this already (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why are they doing it? - What to get instead? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Comsumers lose (Score:3, Insightful)
Where's AntiTrust when you need them? (Score:5, Insightful)
As ridiculous region coding is for DVDs, there I can see a minimal reason (the publishers not wanting a DVD to make it into a market where the movie hasn't even been in the cinemas yet... But as cinema release dates for the big global productions inch ever closer to each other all over the globe, this reason is going away fast - leaving the only "good" thing of the region codings that they can charge more in Europe.
But for an inkjet printer manufacturer - this is pure rip-off. What would I gain by, say, buying an ink-cartridge for a printer that hasn't even been released here from the US? Nothing. I would only waste money.
But - since HP's pricing has gone worse over time anyway, I think it's time to ditch them for good and no longer buy their products... (and just hope that this whole thing doesn't catch on in the printer industry).
Re:Greedy? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Why are they doing it? (Score:5, Insightful)
So it's very simple: they want to pass off any disadvantages of the exchange rate to us customers, while pocketing the advantages. The first is only natural, but they can only get away with the second if they can prevent us from buying in the US.
Re:Why are they doing it? (Score:5, Insightful)
This also a beautiful illustration of why multinationals are the real winners in globalization, they can use labor cost differentials to make a killing and legally backed technological guards to enforce market separation for consumers.
Re:How Stupid? (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, those in the know (such as Warren Buffet) are quite certain the US Dollar will continue to decline for some time.
First they came for the DVD's (Score:5, Insightful)
Then, they came for the printer cartriges, but I didnt use a printer, so I never said anything.
what's next?
Re:Region Coding catridges better than CDs (Score:3, Insightful)
Corporate Anti-Globalism (Score:5, Insightful)
In short, HP has calculated that region coding their cartridges will pay. And it will, unless the public creates enough commotion to affect their bottom line and force a rethink of the region coding.
HP is restricting free the use of products that I own (or in this case, am likely to buy). As a proponent of Open Source I feel this is wrong. If you feel the same way, make your voice heard, either by boycotting the infringing products or helping to create awareness of these bad business practices.
Globalisation (Score:5, Insightful)
On the one hand big companies and corporations are lobbying governments to lessen trade restrictions and import/export taxes so that they can benefit from cheap production costs in other countries. Then on the other hand, they add restrictions themselves so that they can still sell the items at high prices. They make sure that they benefit and not the customer.
Try are trying to have their globalisation cake and eat it.
Uh, not quite how it works... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll illustrate with an example. Person A: +10$, B,C,D: +$2 to profits (at most). Now, in a single market, you would have price 10, volume 1 and profit 10 (since all would buy at the same price, and 4*$2 < $10).
If you can split the market in a market A, and a market BCD, market A would have priceA = 10, volumeA = 1 and profitA = 10, market BCD would have priceBCD = 2, volumeBCD = 3 and profitBCD = 6. Yes, the compnay has higher profit but there is more supply and none of the consumers are worse off. This is the "good" side of price discrimination.
Now, let's look at an example which is more how it typically works. Person A: +25, B: +9, C: +15, D: +14, E: +9. In a single market, price = 9, volume = 5, profits = 45. Now let's split the market into AB and CDE. Market: AB: Price $25, volume 1, profits 25. Market CDE: Price $14, volume 2, profits 28.
In total, you have higher prices, higher profits (53 vs 45), lower volume (3 vs 5) and all your customers are worse off. Essentially, price discrimination is only good if it can open up markets you couldn't serve before. That is hardly the case here. But overall, it is not true that price discrimination = less supply.
Kjella
Ok, correct me if I'm wrong... (Score:3, Insightful)
But wasn't the internet, ecommerce and globalisation supposedly all about getting the best deal anywhere in the freaking world? Now that the system works for consumers, not just for big business to lure away taxable profits, they pull shit like this.
Just realize it guys. Any business big enough is only after one thing, screwing everyone else. This is capitalism at it's finest, and those who endorse it shouldn't expect anything else.
My opinion: Fire Carly Fiorina! (Score:4, Insightful)
My opinion: Fire Carly Fiorina! She can't make money for the company without being adversarial for customers. When a company treats its customers badly to try to make more money, that is an indication that the CEO is desperate.
Reworded: "Where are our anti-trust laws when we need them?" The U.S. government is so corrupt that there is no chance there will be any government involvement. A government that kills other people just because a few people want that certainly will not be influenced by laws.
HP inkjets aren't competitive, anyway, so don't buy them. In my experience, they've been having terrible problems with their printer management programs.
HP's action speaks loud and clear: Try Canon!
Ok, let us for one second forget about legality (Score:3, Insightful)
Tried for hacking your own printer catridge? C'mon! What judge would not feel fundamentaly insulted for having a case like that in his courtroom?
Re:Dollar rising (Score:1, Insightful)
It appears US patriotism has become a very profitable button to push.
Re:Dollar rising (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dollar rising (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why are they doing it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dollar rising (Score:2, Insightful)
The US dollar might some day really be forever gone if the economy isn't handled better.
As for HP, they'll be happy by that time since they already protected themselves from crashing currencies anywhere in the world by localizing their product lines.
Confidence (Score:2, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Globalisation (Score:1, Insightful)
Get in touch with them (Score:3, Insightful)
Email regarding advertising (marketing people will take notice about bad PR).. html [hp.com]
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/hpads/contactus
Email Carly (probably /dev/null but you never know).
n dex.html [hp.com]
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/fiorina/i
Re:Why are they doing it? (Score:2, Insightful)
Now, in regards to other issues (assuming you are referring to Iraq and other UN related issues) there is no real enforcement capabilities. The UN says you shouldn't do something and you may get bad press, but the UN sure isn't going to do anything about your non-compliance. How many strongly worded letters did Hussein get? Did they change what he was doing? It's all about the money and the WTO can affect that, the UN cannot.
Axis of Evil (Score:2, Insightful)
yup, I'm off topic but this is really interesting.
Hmm, surley this is just another reason to start a foreign war again - it's difficult to stip trading in dollars if the US will simply invade or impose massive sanctions against you for doing so.
Lets take a look at the last 3 places to stop trading in dollars.
First Iraq changed to be trading it's oil in Euro's. Then Iran did the same, followed by North Korea - which decided to do all international trading in euros, not just oil.
So what makes a nation a member of the 'Axis of Evil'?
Shortly after North Korea made this statement there was an opec meeting where on the adgena for discussion was all opec trading in Euro's rather than dollars. It was around this time that the invasion of Iraq became inevitable...
So it stands to reason that most of Europe, especially those with strong ties to the euro were against the war (unlike the UK which still uses sterling and isn't going to join the Euro for a while, if at all).
AFAIK This was is more about trying to protect the (not so mighty now) dollar than to actually grab the oil itself. This works two ways - US industries get a big boost as they get work reconstructing Iraq, as well as constructing all of the armaments dropped there plus a nice foreign war normally helps the home economy anyhow. Also the oil is now being traded in dollars again.
In some respects the Iraq war is part if not the start of a large economic power struggle between Europe and the US...
Unfortunatley IMHO this is starting to backfire on the US administration - the whole exercise has been such a PR disaster in international terms that no-one wants to trade in dollars anymore given the choice. Also the US military is loosing the war - this doesn't give a boost to home economy. If you don't believe me check out non-US network news and read between the lines; there's more insurgents in Iraq now than coilition troops and they have much less logistical and supply problems, the support of the local population of which they are comprised and they have large and obvious military targets which cost the enemy a lot to replace whereas the US have now destroyed everything they can militarily and have prooved ineffective against tackling the insurgency (like umm, Vietnam). Also the insurgents have nothing to loose because the US has already taken it away from them - their culture, relegion, freedom and country have all been comprimised by the US - also like Vietnam.
Also this foreign policy is setting the US up to be a target for terrorism now for at least the next generation - this combined with the general distaste for that policy mean that the US is almost certainally now missing out on investments from foreign places and also highly skilled people who before would have happily worked in the US and contriubuted to it's economy are far less likley to do so.
I'm one of these people - I've always thought I'd probably end up working for high tech industry in the USA simply because the pay is better than elsewhere in the world. This isn't true anymore - the pay is now probably worse than here in Europe (because of the weak dollar) and I simply am unprepared to pay my taxes into a system that instigates and persues illegal foreign wars of aggression given the choice.
Re:Why are they doing it? (Score:2, Insightful)
Capitalism 101 - Sell at whatever the market will bear.
If people are willing to pay 4x for a product at another store, why should that store owner not get that money? If the store owner's prices were not what the market (the customers of that store) would bear, then the store owner would not sell many 20oz sodas and would be forced to lower the price to one that the market would bear.
You see the sign that says "No outside food"? They do capitalism, its just that most of their patrons are not willing to go somewhere else with less restrictive policies. So the market will bear such policies.
Simply put - if you don't think that a good or service is worth the price, don't buy it. There are many ways to watch movies. There are many bars in town.
As Rush (the band) said : "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
How is my personal denial of service to an establishment properly identfied if I must simply boycott the entire company?
Individuals will never succeed with a boycott. boycotts only work if a significant portion of the market gets involved. The best thing to do is to find an establishment that does not have restrictive policies and go there. Don't tell me they don't exist. I have found many little out of the way places started by people who were upset with the policies of competitors. You just have to look around a bit to find them.
Re:Dollar rising (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dollar rising (Score:3, Insightful)
The half-century of war that it's going to take to consolidate and maintain the American Christian Empire is going to be no picnic, either.
Re:Ok, correct me if I'm wrong... (Score:3, Insightful)
No, screwing everyone else requires resources, which eats into profits. Businesses are after short-term profits. They'll do anything to ensure they keep making as much money as possible. They'll even break the law if the return on investment is high enough.
But they won't do anything just to hurt people. They don't have emotions, they just have greed.
Re:My opinion: Fire Carly Fiorina! (Score:4, Insightful)
No, it is instead an indication of a company trying to take advantage of people as the culture itself allows it to do. Being treated badly by corporations is getting to epidemic proportions. Surely you must have noticed this, at least in America. The prevailing attitude is that such behavior is wholly justified since it allows said company be "be globally competitive", or some other such rubbish.
With President Bush's "Ownership Society" scam starting to rise into the public consciousness, people are still likely to choose the performance of their stock portfolios much over the ethics of consumer treatment. HP's latest attack is only setting the stage for the next generation of "business as usual". If you personally don't like it, then:
1. Don't put your money into stocks.
2. Don't buy HP products.
The culture is you. Stop rewarding terrible companies like HP. Have your friends and family do the same. Spread the gospel of populism once again over the land, and then stuff like this cartridge-coding bullshit will stop.
Re:Dollar rising (Score:1, Insightful)
Americans are going to get everything they deserve. It can only logically follow, from their being ignorant, stupid AND vicious. The rest of the world will simply re-align to the power structures that the American Imperial Legions did not allow to form in the last 50 years.
Re:My opinion: Fire Carly Fiorina! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why are they doing it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, but:
they can use labor cost differentials to make a killing and legally backed technological guards to enforce market separation for consumers
There's the state. I have no problem with HP doing this. I have a huge problem with government declaring it illegal for me not to conform to HP's business model.
Let's walkthru the economics of this... (Score:3, Insightful)
Used laser printer at your neighborhood: $100-$150
Recycled toner cartridge: $50
Average # of pages per toner refill: 1000
Price of one black and white printout: 0.05$
Price of one digital camera picture on real photographic paper: 0.25$
Generic inkjet printer: $100-$150
Ink cartridges, black+colour: $60
'photo quality' glossy 4x6 paper, 50 sheets: $20
Average # of pages per ink refill: 250
Average # of color prints per ink refill: 50
Price of one black and white printout: 0.24$
Price of one color printout on glossy paper: 1.60$
Conclusion: Inkjet are for suckers. Flame away.
Re:My opinion: Fire Carly Fiorina! (Score:4, Insightful)
What happened to HP? They used to have good hardware that was extremely reliable and which performed well.
When I saw a laserjet 6 around '99 or 2000, I laughed, it was all cheap plastic and didn't last more than a couple months in our office.
How the mighty have fallen...
N.
It's bullshit however you cut it (Score:5, Insightful)
Region codes are bullshit no matter how you slice it. They make a mockery of free markets and free trade agreements. Essentially, the international corporations have decided they like free trade agreements when it means they can outsource their labor to the cheapest markets without restrictions (and in the case of the Bush administration, with tax incentives to do so), but they will artificially fragment the marketplace in order to prevent their customers from shopping competatively.
Free trade for corporations, restricted trades for mortal humans.
Its unjustifiable, regardless of whether it's DVDs we're talking about, or printer cartidges. The DVD justification has always been weak, and typically break down to:
1) MPAA Whiney voice: "But we don't want people buying movies in one market when they haven't been released in another."
1) Sensible citizen's response: "Touch shit. It's a global marketplace. Release your movies globally, instead of fucking with people in market B by making them wait six months longer than people in market A. This whole "second class" market citizenship is vile anyway."
2) Whiney MPAA voice: "But we don't want arbitrage markets forming, where people buy DVDs in China for $3 and sell them in the US for $10 when we're selling the same DVD for $20."
2A) Reasonable citizen response: "Fuck you. If you can make a profit selling DVDs in China for $3, you can make a profit selling them in the US for $3. Anything more is gouging the customer, and quite frankly, no one with a shred of common sense should have an ounce of sympathy for an industry that bases its entire business model on the practice of gouging various sets of customers. Oh, and if you're going to whine about currency markets and shifting values of the yuan against the dollar, a sensible person has but two things to say. One, the Yuan is locked to the dollar, so the specific argument with regard to China is doubly bullshit, and two, in the more general sense (e.g. the US vs. Europe), currency markets are free marktets, and you can accept their results the same as the rest of us. If that means someone occasionally gets a good deal when they travel overseas, more power to them. Its called a global economy
HP should be run out of town for this nonsense. The MPAA should be run out of town for this nonsense. But most importantly, the scum-sucking politicians who set up this one-sided regime of free trade for companies, but restricted trade and rights for real, living human beings, should be run out of the country for this nonsense.
Not that I'm holding my breath, mind you.