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Microsoft IT

eBay Retires MS Passport Sign-In 304

fihzy writes "eBay have announced they will retire Microsoft Passport Sign-In and .NET alerts. The Microsoft Passport Directory of Sites has been discontinued, too. Is Microsoft's Single Sign-On vision edging towards oblivion?"
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eBay Retires MS Passport Sign-In

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  • Re:well (Score:5, Interesting)

    by superpulpsicle ( 533373 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @08:10PM (#11214425)
    Man I had a .net account. I always frequently login. Out of the blues one day, my password just locked me out. I emailed the M$ support folks, and not a single person replied. My account was just gone basically, and no one gave a shit.

  • Yahoo's going strong (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DogDude ( 805747 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @08:11PM (#11214436)
    I've said it before... Yahoo has done single sign in, and they've done it well without being abusive. Why MSN couldn't compete, I have no idea (since I never used their stuff). With Yahoo, it's all tied together relatively seamlessly, with extra security when you go to buy stuff. But with one sign in, you can get customized mail (of course), weather, financial info, news, message boards (Yahoo Groups), bookmarks, etc, etc, etc. So it's not that it can't be done and done well.
  • I actually used it (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CdBee ( 742846 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @08:12PM (#11214440)
    6 months after MS Passport was introduced on eBay I started using it. I gave up using it 3 months later after missing numerous sales due to passport authentication fscking up and logging me in moments after the bid deadline ended

    Eventually, I got a new login and walked away from one with 20 favourable reviews on it thanks to that damned system. Hope it fries in hell.
  • by hurfy ( 735314 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @08:13PM (#11214452)
    Only other place i have seen that used it was Asheron's Call games.

    Those are currently being transfered to the developers in-house system.

    In a couple months that use will be gone too.

    What does that leaving using it? Hotmail?

    I never even linked my ebay to one of my .net passports even though i have several. Ebay already knows everything...why bother with passport.

    Nice idea but only handy if it filled out everything for you on lots of sites, which i dont think i'd like the idea of anyway.
  • by Ars-Fartsica ( 166957 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @08:14PM (#11214460)
    I don't think any company relished the concept of Microsoft being in control of their user's data records. Microsoft just doesn't have the goodwill to get something like this done.

    When it arrives, single sign-on is going to have to come with some bill of rights for users...I don't see MS providing any level of transparency.

  • Re:well (Score:2, Interesting)

    by adeydas ( 837049 ) <`adeydas' `at' `inbox.com'> on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @08:21PM (#11214510) Homepage Journal
    that's microsoft's way of telling that they care...
  • Re:well (Score:3, Interesting)

    by gl4ss ( 559668 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @08:34PM (#11214599) Homepage Journal
    which is an prime example why you as a company like ebay wouldn't like to use the system.

    you wouldn't like to look/be responsible for a system you don't have the keys to, it's quite hard to fix things that you can't access even.
  • by prostoalex ( 308614 ) * on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @08:34PM (#11214600) Homepage Journal
    Heh, yeah, that's true, Passport tends to lose your authentication cookie more often that a 3-year-old would lose his toys. You have financial losses, I would just get frustrated.

    On top of that I used their hotmail account to register for the Passport, since that's their recommended option. I never use Hotmail for my daily webmail, in fact, the only message I have there is a thank-you for signing up. The bozos from hotmail kept threatening me with turning off the account, and they did execute their threats every 90 days. So unless I remember to log in to the Hotmail account, which I never use, I lose my passport, and have to go through easy but still frustrating retrival system at hotmail.

    The guys who designed this system are probably competing with Clippy team on who builds the most annoying product.
  • by Schmucky The Cat ( 687075 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @08:37PM (#11214616) Homepage
    It never worked anyways.

    I tried to use it multiple times. I'd be logged into MSN, MSN Messenger, reading hotmail, and in some new window (using IE, even) I'd try to log into eBay and, nope, same page, repeatedly, asking for the username and password.

    I'd have liked for it to work, but I don't think anyone at eBay ever actually cared whether it worked.

  • by CrazyJim0 ( 324487 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @08:38PM (#11214622)
    I wrote a login/password script with no effort in less than an hour. The hardest part is getting an internet protocol compatible programming language, and actually writing your application.

    What they were asking is like holding the door open for someone then asking for a hundred spot.

    Passport not only had security flaws, but would be the biggest target ever imagined for phishing scams. Its funny too because the passport URL was so long that you didn't even see the www.microsoft part. You could have sent them to any site to login, and just kept their login and passport.

    Microsoft failures are great for jokes.
  • by grumbel ( 592662 ) <grumbel+slashdot@gmail.com> on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @08:41PM (#11214643) Homepage
    ### based on data resident on a machine administered so incompetently...

    That is what I call bad implementation, if done right this whole thing would have worked via smartcards. Have a key stored on that card and encrypt the login information on the card itself, don't store any information on the computer itself. Would have even allowed to move to another computer and login there without risking to get the password spyed away. Good smartcard are ever protected by a pin which you can enter on the card itself, so you don't even need an extra numpad. On the server side all that would be needed would be some standard protocoll to comminucate with the client/smartcard.

    Downside is of course that such smartcard reader would have cost a little bit of money, but given that now basically every PC comes with Flash-, SD-, XD- and whatever they are called slots, such a reader shouldn't have ben all that expensive, especially if Microsoft would have backed it up with a little 'force'.

    Sadly all dreams, and we are stuck for the coming years with passwords and password managers which basically store everything in almost plain-text on the client...

  • by jd ( 1658 ) <imipak@yahoGINSBERGo.com minus poet> on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @08:55PM (#11214723) Homepage Journal
    Kerberos V uses single sign-on and then uses secure tokens to authenticate. It's not a bad idea, provided the information on the client machine for generating/passing tokens isn't compromised.


    Now, it's true that Windows is not exactly the most secure system. Indeed, in recent security tests, it was passed by an unlocked door, and a large neon sign displaying the sensitive data.


    On the other hand, this is definitely the problem with the OS, and not the idea. If you run Kerberos on OpenBSD or a reasonably secure Linux box, the odds of anyone being able to break the system and obtain access to all sites that acknowledge the same Kerberos domain that you are logged into are pretty remote.


    Personally, I think Kerberos is not the best system. It uses DES and CBC for encoding, for a start, and MIT's implementation appears to be hard to modify to support other encryption systems and other chaining modes. I'd prefer a system that is capable of a moderate to high degree of flexibility, as you can't decrypt something if you don't know the encryption algorithm used.


    An alternative system would be to log into some sort of server, which generated seed information for a pseudo one-time pad, which could be generated independently on the client and server.


    When logging into another server, the previous server passes the pad generating information, plus current position in the one-time pad to the new server. Any other tokens are passed as usual. By passing the pad position, you ensure that ONLY your computer can connect to the new server - no other computer, even if the user has your password, tokens, etc, can do so, because it doesn't have either the pad or the position in it.


    Even grabbing the information for generating the pad isn't good enough, because you still don't have the position. The pad isn't re-used, when you connect somewhere else, the pad is always used from where you left off. If N bytes are sent, then the cursor is on the N+1th position of the pad, always. Since the hostile computer cannot prevent the real user's computer from transmitting, the hostile computer cannot ever be certain what N is, and therefore cannot encrypt data in a way the target server will understand.


    This means that you cannot transmit to two servers using this system at the same time, and any switch between server has to be explicit to both the old and new servers. Otherwise, the necessary state information can't be relayed properly.


    However, it's very rare that you ever are interested in being connected to two servers at the same time, except on LANs or point-to-point multi-user software. You wouldn't use these sorts of schemes to protect LANs anyway, and multi-machine multi-user software should use multicasting, not point-to-point.

  • Re:nope (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Broadcatch ( 100226 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @09:03PM (#11214766) Homepage
    Windows Longhorn will have an identity system in it, currently code-named InfoCard. But from what I hear, they are actually looking for open standards on which to base their identity infrastructure, and this would make a *lot* of sense. If they promoted a system that was 100% decentralized (as opposed to the 100% centralized Passport), free and open source, and integrated it sweetly into their OS, they would have an identity system that would be peerless and increase their market share (or at the least, not drive people away so fast).

    The only system I know of that fits the bill is the nascent Identity Commons [identitycommons.net] system that is just starting to come online [2idi.com]. (Disclaimer: I am 2idi's CTO)
  • by alc6379 ( 832389 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @10:12PM (#11215122)
    ...And it stinks.

    I've got a Passport because of my MSDN subscripton, and it's the only reason why I've got Microsoft Instant Messenger running on my system. But, it NEVER WORKS-- IE is supposed to realize you're signed in with your passport, and let you right on through to subscriber downloads, but that never happens. Everytime, I'm forced to sign in, and then hit the "I Agree" button to the MSDN Subscriber Agreement each time, as if I'm signing in for the very first time, every time.

    Sure, that might be lazy to not want to be hassled by those few key/mouse clicks, but if you're going to implement a feature and then require your subscribers to use that feature, at least make the feature work. After all, that was supposed to be the reason for Passport integration into XP, right? Just sign into Messenger, and then you'll be recognized at any .NET Passport enabled site?
  • by skrolle2 ( 844387 ) on Wednesday December 29, 2004 @11:59PM (#11215815)
    I used to work on a similar system for another major portal business, although only for our own portfolio of websites, and we took this stuff really seriously for a while. When eBay joined, we were starting to get a bit scared, because if the passport thing had taken off, our business would have gone bye-bye.

    The worst thing about Passport and the related .Net services was that MS intended not only to store a username and password, but store ALL user information. Participating sites would then have free access to the information they contributed to the system, but would have to pay for anything else. Also, using the entire .Net portfolio would have made it simple for web developers to build a system with a "secure" passport logon and user database, but VERY difficult to obtain control over their own data. Microsoft, on the other hand, would have complete access to all user data regardless of source. They could have become the gatekeeper, the only company with control over user data, and everyone else paying them for data mining rights in their own data. We should be VERY thankful that it didn't take off.

    In retrospect, Microsoft made a bunch of mistakes:

    1) The whole thing got muddled in the general confusion of .Net.

    2) Most other web companies actually valued control of their user data more than ease of development.

    3) No user demand for single sign-on, either because users don't care, or because they actually value their privacy and don't want different websites to share user data.

    It's finally gone. Good riddance.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 30, 2004 @04:30AM (#11217223)
    So what happens when someone else gets a hotmail account that you previously had, and clicks the "send me my password" in a .net password recovery form? Do they then have access to your .net information and history? Yikes.
  • by Ath ( 643782 ) on Thursday December 30, 2004 @07:02AM (#11217615)
    Passport was not intended as just an authentication system. That was only one piece for Microsoft. The real benefits eventually would be in all of the data they would collect about you from each of their Passport partners.

    Once you understand how Passport works and would work in the future, it is so clearly a horrible idea that it is not funny. People often only think of it as a central repository for storing their passwords. Some like this idea for its convenience but the Passport model is so half-baked it is not even funny.

    If you want to understand how a truly well-designed system will work, take a look at the Liberty Alliance. Instead of the central repository method, it uses a federated approach to the problem.

    For example, if you have a bank account, a utility provider, and your employer, there is no need for those three entities to share all information about you. It should be up to you to define which information is shared, but you should only have to maintain it in one place.

    If your employer knows your home address, why not allow this data to be shared automatically to the other entities? Don't want to? Then you don't have to. You employer may know your bank account number to deposit your salary. Your utility provider may know your bank account number to deduct your monthly bill. Why not tell your bank to share this information with your employer and utility provider? If you change your bank, then your new bank will automatically update this information.

    Of course all of this has to be done in a secure way. But it is more likely that your bank will have secure connections to other entities than the layer where you inform those entities yourself.

    Best of all, the approach from the Liberty Alliance does not leave one vendor with the master key. The keys are still with you, you just might give certain keys to some of your vendors.

  • by Ath ( 643782 ) on Thursday December 30, 2004 @09:21AM (#11218012)
    Do you have a source for this?

    I did not say that Passport sent passwords to the third party sites. I said that people think of Passport as a central repository for storing their passwords. By implication, I was pointing out that this is incorrect.

    Yes, Passport authenticates you by sending a secure token to the third party and the third party trusts Passport.

    My point was that the Passport architecture is inherently flawed because it allows an independent source (the Passport system) to authenticate you to the third party. The third party then assumes whoever Passport just authenticated is the full user. That is a flawed architecture because it uses a centralized trusted source for authentication to all third parties (at least, that was Microsoft's goal). The third party no longer has any restrictions on accessing it once Passport has authenticated. The problem gets exponentially worse as more systems use Passport.

    Take the scenario where Passport is breached. Any system that uses Passport is therefore breached FULLY at the user level. A federated system, on the other hand, still has restriction about what can be supplied and shared between systems. In addition, there is no central system to breach. There is no master key. It is only a web of systems sharing information as defined.

    So technically Passport does not store passwords, but it might as well. The result is the same.

HELP!!!! I'm being held prisoner in /usr/games/lib!

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