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Intel IT

Shortage of Intel Laptop Chipsets 108

Posted by samzenpus from the made-anywhere-but-here dept.
EvilTwinSkippy writes "Taiwanese notebook vendors are reporting a short supply of Intel CPU chipsets for laptops. This includes the popular Centrino line. In case you didn't know most "name brand" laptops like Dell, HP, and even Apple are actually manufactured by OEM's in Taiwan, Mainland China, and Korea."
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Shortage of Intel Laptop Chipsets More

Shortage of Intel Laptop Chipsets

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  • Uh, shortage doesn't strictly apply to Apple (Score:5, Informative)

    by 2nd Post! ( 213333 ) <gundbear@pacbe l l .net> on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @07:49PM (#10914174) Homepage
    Considering Apple computers don't rely on Centrino or Intel chipsets, I'm not sure why they were even thrown into the blurb.

    A 20% shortage translates into higher prices or loss in profit for everyone involved (except in this case Apple because their chipsets don't go through Intel).
    • Apple uses Intel northbridge and southbridge chips on some models (namely the iMac 2.0).
    • I think it is some kind of odd thing where it might hint that Apple's notebooks are no better than anyone else's if the same company makes and partly designs both PC and Mac notebooks.

      I still don't see how that is relevant though.

      Even if the same company makes all Dell, HP and Apple laptops, I don't necessarily consider them to be equal in quality. The brand company can specify the quality of the components and the rigorousness of design validation and so on.

      It would be nice if there was more standardiz

      • Manufacturing has little to do with it. (Score:5, Informative)

        by poptones ( 653660 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @09:58PM (#10915022) Journal
        PC boards are manufactured on automated assembly lines by machines. Very little of the work outside loading the machines and tending the reflow ovens is actually done by humans.

        Quality, in this case, comes from testing. You test devices as much as you need to get your scores up, then ship the unit. This offends the heck out of a lot of old school engineers, but it's still a fact of modern life. Testing individual chips adds pennies to each device; testing the pc boards much more, then repairing them and retesting adds more still. At a certain point it becomes cheaper just to expect x% of your product to be returned under warranty, bin it, and ship a new (also untested) replacement. This is the tact increasingly taken by manufacturers including biggies like Dell and (especially since the takeover by emachines) Gateway. Cutting back on quality means cutting back on labor costs in testing, not so much cutting back on materials costs.

        Buying a high end tv or stereo is pretty much the same these days: very little differentiation comes from what's on the inside. If you're willing to do your own Q&A before the warranty expires, brand matters almost nothing.

        This, BTW, is the primary reason so many folks like "vintage" things. These things were made before quality became a mathematical afterthought, and devices that have survived intact all these years represent the cream of their respective crops.
        • While brands may not mean anything, models do. You mention that the TVs are essentially the same on the inside. In some ways they are, but that doesn't cover the user interface. For TVs, you get the best colors by making sure the set you get has accurately colored phosphors, then tune it. Few individuals can afford to do a color test, but some magazines do test this. And not all deinterlacing algorithms are the same, I recommend DCDi, but it pays to look up what the differences are between them.
          • You're talking about issues that are completely subjective as well as completely obvious to the purchaser. Of course there are differences in the picture between models and brands - but this doesn't mean the most expensive brands will always have the most appeal to the purchaser.

            When picking a tv set it pretty much comes down to "I like the looks of that one." If it's a tube set, crank up the volume and see how the picture behaves. If you can see it shudder in rhythm with the sound, it's got a crap power s
        • At a certain point it becomes cheaper just to expect x% of your product to be returned under warranty, bin it, and ship a new (also untested) replacement.

          I've worked for a company that is notorious for this, and oddly enough, they're not even in the computer business. It annoyed the crap out of me, but management did nothing but send out "new" products. These things where so bad, they'd have pallets of incoming returns and not enough outgoing replacements. All of this for a $500 product that only cost upw


      • But... But ...

        My Dell laptop has that "Made in USA" label !

        How can it be made in Taiwan or Korea
        if it has the label ?

        I got it just 2 months ago, from Dell !!

    • And to be technical, Apple portables are built to custom specs, unlike some other name brand laptops such as (if I recall) Gateway -- I'm pretty sure noone else is selling PowerPC laptops, and if they are I'm pretty sure they're PReP rather than New World Mac. Hence Apple not being affected by the Centrino shortage, though if there's a problem at the G4 factory they'll be problematic.
    • A 20% shortage translates into higher prices
      Wow, and just in time for Christmas. How convenient.

  • Uhh... (Score:4, Funny)

    by cartzworth ( 709639 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @07:49PM (#10914181) Journal
    In case you didn't know most "name brand" laptops like Dell, HP, and even Apple are actually manufactured by OEM's in Taiwan, Mainland China, and Korea. No Shit. Wait I thought they were made by rosie the riveter here in the good ole USA.
    • Well, not so much OEM's as an OEM. Quanta seems to make most of them according to the article. And they're not just a big factory, they do a lot of the design work too. Which makes me wonder, what brand of laptop do the engineers at Quanta use? Cause that's the one I want.

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
        Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • >Which makes me wonder, what brand of laptop do the engineers at Quanta use?

        My guess:
        a) their own (i.e. something they make for one of their customers but without a logo)
        b) different brands (i.e. stuff they make for OEMs and that is OK but they either churned out too many of them or had small QA problems so couldn't be shipped)
    • ...but the remote control is assembled in Mexico! Oh, wrong appliance.

    • Re:Uhh... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @09:32PM (#10914848)
      Wait I thought they were made by rosie the riveter here in the good ole USA.
      Wow, the idea that the US could manufacture anything has literally become a joke.
      • Wow, the idea that the US could manufacture anything has literally become a joke.

        And I was just sitting here wondering if there was a market for PC's made in the USA.

        Guess I got my answer. Heck, yeah, let's completely sell all our manufacturing capability to potentially hostile foreign countries because, let's face it, being dependent on foreign oil just isn't enough!

  • That's why you don't use Intel Chips (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ilyanep ( 823855 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @07:50PM (#10914184) Journal
    This [slashdot.org] shows that AMD is doing way better than Intel. Doesn't AMD make mobile processor chips? If not, they should! AMD's chips have always run faster at the same rated speeds (don't ask me how that works). That's why a game's requirements may say "1 Ghz Pentium 4 or 800 Mhz AMD Athlon" , etc.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Try looking at the power consumption and heat production of an AMD chip. Just not worth it.

      empaler
      -on a Centrino

      • Re:That's why you don't use Intel Chips (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Entropius ( 188861 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @08:43PM (#10914555)
        AMD's mobile processors seem to be worth it to me.

        I am posting this on a mobile Athlon 64 3400+. It has a 14.1V 4.4 amp-hour battery, and get slightly under three hours on a charge. Much of this power consumption comes from the large LCD (15" WXGA).

        True, some Pentium-M notebooks use less power than my machine. However, when plugged in, I highly doubt that any but the most expensive Centrino notebooks can compete with the Athlon 64's in the number-crunching arena. For me, AC-powered performance (I'm a scientist and a gamer) outweigh the gain in battery life on the Pentium-M's.

        The Athlon 64 notebooks I've seen, particularly the eMachines 68xx line (I have a 6811) are relatively inexpensive, get respectable battery life on DC, and have unmatched processor performance on AC.

        AMD has done a great job balancing the need to save power while on DC with the need for performance on AC.

    • Yes they do, and, AFAICS from the docs, the power consumption for the Athlon 64 Mobiles are comparable to the P-Ms'. They're also ~1/2 as expensive as comparable P-Ms (savings are on the order of 150-250 USD/unit in bulk, iirc). But A64 doesn't give you Internet access on the K2. Seriously, it is a question of marketing and semi-knowledgeable people believing that AMD => hotter.

    • Re:That's why you don't use Intel Chips (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Probably because an AMD would melt through the case, throught your leg, the floor, all the way to the earth's core, and it would probably raise the temperature of that a few degrees. I'm sorry, man. I just can't stop making fun of them, and that might be because I still consider it a cheap Intel knockoff.
    • I have one. HP zv5000z. I get 3-4 hours of battery life with the 12 cell battery. I just swapped in [r3000forums.com] a Mobile-class Athlon 64 3200+ CPU (replacing the original DTR-class chip) to great effect (eMachines/Gateway already uses Mobile-class Athlon 64s). Right now I'm running 1.1GHz @ 0.8V, which means CPU power consumption is in... oh, probably the high single digits, wattage-wise. It'll do full speed at 1.2V too (35W max power consumption). But even without playing undervolting games like this you'll stil

  • Cupertino, CA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by arashiakari ( 633150 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @07:50PM (#10914187) Homepage
    Apple laptops like my iBook are designed in the USA by best-of-field engineers, which makes all the difference in the world. They don't go to Taiwan and see what some company there has put together as and order a million units... which is pretty much what everyone but IBM and Fujitsu do.

    Don't lament that the machine and assembly line labor is done in nations with developing economies - it means our high tech equipment is that much cheaper for us... so we buy more and attain that much more of a productivity advantage.

    • Re:Cupertino, CA (Score:5, Informative)

      by Mr.G5 ( 722745 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @08:02PM (#10914263)

      I thought that too until I read this:

      Lam says that Quanta, which has 500 design engineers in Taiwan, did about half of the design work for Apple Computer's G4 notebook.

      Although it doesn't what the half includes but that seems like a lot more from Apple who proudly stamped my Powerbook G4 with Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in Taiwan. My guess is the design is only for the exterior of the case and the Taiwanese handle all of the hardware layout.

      • Re:Cupertino, CA (Score:3, Insightful)

        by sokoban ( 142301 )
        I don't see why it is so shocking that Apple doesn't design their computers from the ground up. They don't design the cpus, memory controllers, ethernet controllers, and the like. I would say that apple really does little more than lay down specs, exterior design, and a few other things. Are they heavily involved with what quantas designs for them? Certainly. Apple is not a semiconductor company any more than Quanta is based out of 1 Infinite Loop.
      • apple still sets the Quality Assurance Standards. Quanta does not throw any old crap in the notebooks they manufacture. they have to be with in what ever statistical variance the company who orders them require. That is where the higher quality and higher prices come in.

      • Re:Cupertino, CA (Score:5, Informative)

        by PipsqueakOnAP133 ( 761720 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @08:21PM (#10914392)
        Well, I've actually met one of the people who does logic board layout and one of my friends worked on one of the G4 northbridges before going to grad school. Both of them worked in Cupertino.

        So outside of manufacturing, there really isn't much design work they do FOR APPLE in Taiwan.

        However, that's not to say that Taiwanese companies didn't do the design work for the LCDs (probably Korea actually), the hard drives, the bluetooth modules (since almost every single one is from CSR or broadcom), CD/DVD recorders, actual battery cells (not controllers), LCD inverters, and discrete components.
        • Well, I've actually met one of the people who does logic board layout and one of my friends worked on one of the G4 northbridges before going to grad school. Both of them worked in Cupertino.
          There's a lot more to making hardware than most people (even geeks) think. After you've designed all the hardware somebody has to design the tools to make the case etc and then how to put it all together on an assembly line.
          • True. But most geeks usually tend to mean that the designers are the ones that actually do the work in figuring how the device should work instead of how the device should be put together.

            I meant to say that for what most geeks think of as design, almost all of it for a Mac is done in Cupertino. And in that same set of definitions, most PCs are designed in Taiwan (since the chipsets, board layout, pretty much all of it but the CPU itself is out there).

            I know tooling is a lot of work, but in most ./er's co
        • That's because, in addition to Quanta's large assembly lines next door to Dell's lines in Nashville, Quanta has their Apple lines in place in Cupertino for original devel as well as final assembly.
    • I lament that people need to make this comparison in any article mentioning work in foreign nations.

      Personally, I don't care where my goods come from as long as they are quality and do the task they're supposed to. Apple is an excellent example of this (Yes, I prefer PCs. But Apple hardware and software does what it is supposed to do and does it well).

      I'm in the UK, so it can't be excessive patriotism. I just know that Apple works.
    • Add Sony to that list... their laptops are some of the best looking/feeling ones in the PC world.

      Also, the half of the design work done by Quanta is likely having to do with the manufacturing process. Someone has to figure out exactly how to make a magnesium frame and a 2-piece alminum case from raw materials.
    • ...and that's why I'm a ThinkPad loyalist. For non-Mac OS machine, anything other than a ThinkPad is a compromise in quality.

    • Taiwan != developing economy (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Glowing Fish ( 155236 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @08:56PM (#10914647) Homepage
      Intel (for example) has its headquarters in Portland, Oregon where I live. I've been walking around Portland today, and I seem to not have noticed any bullet trains. Also, there are still these coin operated pay phones. The traffic lights don't even tell you how much longer you have to cross the street. 7-11s don't have doors that slide automatically. Not even half of people have broadband! And if I was to take a bus ride for 200 miles, I wouldn't get my own easy chair and television set, for ten dollars. Also, Portland doesn't have the tallest skyscraper in the world.

      Taiwan is perhaps not the most developed economy in the world, but it is hardly a "developing" economy. In some things, they are behind us, in some things they are about the same, and in some things, they are way ahead. Their croissants are certainly good and cheap.
      • Sorry, I live in PDX too and Intel isn't headquartered here. It DOES have more employees than anywhere else west of here in a suburb (Hillsboro). No real presence in PDX itself.

        What we DO have is more breweries than any city/town in the world - over thirty inside the city limits.

        Linus lives here now, too.

        Coincidence? I don't think so.
    • ... which is pretty much what everyone but IBM and Fujitsu do.

      I don't know about IBM, but I used to have a Fujitsu-Siemens Lifebook C1020 [fi.muni.cz], and I've once met a guy with exactly same laptop from Acer - the configuration was the same, case was the same (altough Acer was black while my C1020 was grey), the connectors were at the same place, etc. I did not disassemble it, though. So think even Fujitsu-Siemens uses some external sources for manufacturing laptops.

  • It's ok, we all wanted Clawhammer Athlons with 1 megabyte caches anyway.

  • stellar. (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "In case you didn't know most "name brand" laptops like Dell, HP, and even Apple are actually manufactured by OEM's in Taiwan, Mainland China, and Korea."

    Well, just you wait until they savy up and "cut out the middleman". Won't that be an interesting day.

    • Re:stellar. (Score:3, Informative)

      by jon3k ( 691256 )
      They aren't concerned with branding and marketing. They just produce units. Thats where the real money is. They need the "middle man". Let dozens of different brands market products in every country, and they'll crank them out.
      • Divide and conquer....

        But I'd agree: Why should they try to sell a new brand on a very tight market when they already produce all the alternatives? That'd just add to costs. If Apple has an ad campaign that pushes sales, good for Quantas. If IBM suddenly gets a big deal with a major US corp to deliver 10'000 units, good for Quantas.
        No reason in changing a good deal...

    • Re:stellar. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by RzUpAnmsCwrds ( 262647 )
      "Well, just you wait until they savy up and "cut out the middleman". Won't that be an interesting day."

      Clevo corporation already has. They are selling their notebooks in the US market under the "Sager" brand.

      Personally, I purchased a notebook that was ODM'd by Compal called the CL-56. It's sold in the US under a number of brands such as the VoodoPC Envy M:360 and the Chembook 2056.

      If you buy the "brand name", you're getting ripped off. You can get a much better deal if you buy a no-brand notebook from a

  • Likely precautionary... (Score:5, Informative)

    by mercuryresearch ( 680293 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @08:02PM (#10914264) Journal
    There was a serious, big-time oversupply of chip sets last quarter. This shortage could likely be the chip set suppliers being cautious -- the last time something like this happened we were swimming in finished notebooks for more than a quarter and it had a fairly negative impact on Intel and AMD's operations for about six months.

  • Good news for Transmeta (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    As far as I can tell, Sharp is currently offering notebooks using the Transmeta. (They are IMHO quite expensive but then I tend to be a bottom feeder.) As well there is at least one tablet which is where something like the Transmeta should shine. Maybe if the law of supply and demand pushes the cost of other notebooks up, then Transmeta powered notebooks might become competitive. Or am I missing something?

  • ODM, not OEM (Score:4, Informative)

    by VeneficusAcerbus ( 724294 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @08:15PM (#10914354)
    It's technically Original Design Manufacturer.

  • Meanwhile....... (Score:4, Informative)

    by twfry ( 266215 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @08:24PM (#10914408)
    Intel is sitting on a record +3 Billion in inventory. If they have a shortage anywhere it means their managment have lost their minds.
    • Have you seen the prices on Itanium chips and chipsets? With the current prices, 3 billion dollars is only a dozen or so Itanium setups.;-)

  • Hmm... recalls could be a problem too.... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Justice8096 ( 673052 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @08:35PM (#10914486)
    There have been quite a few recalls of laptops because of overheating (such as Toshiba) - this could also have an effect in the shortage instead of just "demand".
    Fortunatly, I bought an AMD based notebook after 3 laptop meltdowns, and it has had less problems than the Intel ones (even though it is a Compaq, and they have always given me overheating problems before). So I am not going back to Intel based machines ever again.
    • I used to use an eMachines 5312 (Athlon XP-M 2400). Wonderful machine, but it would overheat and shut down whenever the processor was under extreme load for long periods of time (under Windows; under Linux it would throttle back).

      I've since traded that machine for an eMachines 6811 (Athlon 64 3400). It's thicker but not much heavier than the 5312, and has more vents; I suspect that extra space is used for increased airflow, because this machine has never had thermal issues.
      • The athlon 64 is actually a newer and more advanced cpu than the xp.. hence it produces less heat etc..
        I have another example tho, a dell inspiron 5160 p4-m 3.2ghz, under windows it throttles back while under linux it crashes itself with the heat, oronically that usually happens while running a copy of windows under vmware.. day-long compiles seem to have no effect on it
    • Bad laptop design and poor chip choice doesn't reflect on the company that makes the chip, but the ones that designed the laptop.

      For one, using desktop Pentium 4 chips in laptops is rediculously stupid. Maybe the P4m chips were stupid too, I'm not sure.

      I have had two Compaq business laptops and they most certanly do not have overheating problems. They both happened to be Pentium IIIm based. If I buy another, I'd have no problem with a Pentium M based laptop.
  • This explains so much. I ordered a Laptop from alienware last month and they say they are still missing parts and won't start building it for another two weeks. Punks!!

    • Re:Alienware (Score:5, Funny)

      by Zorilla ( 791636 ) on Wednesday November 24, 2004 @09:16PM (#10914760)
      This explains so much. I ordered a Laptop from alienware last month and they say they are still missing parts and won't start building it for another two weeks. Punks!!

      Supernatural forces are helping you to avoid spending $4000 on a $1100 machine.
    • Funny, was just discussing the same issue with a friend last night.

      He got fobbed off with excuses by Alienware for 2 months on a Desktop machine due to "awaiting parts".

      Ended up cancelling his order and going elsewhere.

  • "The company's delivery of contract-manufactured products would remain intact, as the issue will not impact clients, such as Apple Computer Inc, Chang said."

    Got it?

  • Besides Intel's customary price gouging, that is. The amazing thing is that people bought enough of the chips to cause a shortage in the first place.

  • But not IBM... (Score:2, Informative)

    by KenFury ( 55827 )
    Just to be clear, last time I checked (six months ago) IBM still made their own notebooks. I think they are still smarting from the deathstar line which was made by either fushitsu or hitachi.
    • Wrong. Thinkpads were being made by Acer as far back as 1999.
      • Which models? I look on mine (A31P and a 600E) and I'd only think the 600E had a chance on that one. The A31p I have is Mexican made, and only has hardware similarities to the T40-T42p series. If you could say which models were made by Acer, I'd not mind knowing that one.
  • Seems AMD's releasing a 'Thin and light' Sempron 3000+. Inq: http://theinq.com/?article=19824 [theinq.com] How well it compares to the Centrino on heat emission and wattage, I couldn't say though.

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