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Databases Programming GUI Microsoft Software IT

MySQL Uses Microsoft's Open Source Software 117

Posted by timothy from the interesting-territory dept.
EqualSlash writes "The Windows installer for the upcoming MySQL 4.1 release will be built using Microsoft's first ever open source project - Windows Installer XML toolset(Wix). According to an InternetNews report, they are using Wix to convert the MSI file designed using InstallShield into XML to achieve greater control over the installer. Of course, they are simply using it because it's Open Source (CPL license) and in good faith. Earlier this year, when Microsoft surprised everybody by releasing the Wix project under an open source license, some were cautious about using it, as the specific XML schema it uses might be patented just like the Office xml schema. Whatever.. Rob Mensching, Wix's lead developer, is very happy about MySQL choosing to use Wix for their installer."
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MySQL Uses Microsoft's Open Source Software More

MySQL Uses Microsoft's Open Source Software

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  • Good news, I guess (Score:5, Insightful)

    by __aavhli5779 ( 690619 ) * on Saturday October 09, 2004 @05:37PM (#10481433) Journal
    Wait, so what you're implying is...

    Someone open-sourcing something causes more people to use it?!?!?

    If it weren't for the fact that this is MS's open source creation being used, this would not be news.

    In any case, kudos to MySQL for taking the first step with Wix and to Microsoft for trying something they have otherwise sworn against.

    Hopefully more people will use Wix, and most importantly, will modify it and contribute changes. That would be a nice way of showing MS just what open source can offer, something which everyone else seems to have figured out already.

    • Re:Good news, I guess (Score:4, Informative)

      by Osty ( 16825 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @05:47PM (#10481499)

      Someone open-sourcing something causes more people to use it?!?!?

      No, it's closer to, "Open-source something causes already open-source-centric people to use it." Also keep in mind that WiX is just a wrapper on top of Microsoft's proprietary Windows Installer bits. Therefore, while you can modify the syntax supported by WiX because that part is open, you can't change core functionality of the installer software (that part is not open).


      and to Microsoft for trying something they have otherwise sworn against.

      Microsoft is not against open source. They've used BSD-licensed software, and more than WiX has been released under an open source license. What Microsoft has "sworn against" is "Free Software" as RMS would call it, or to the rest of us, software using the GPL or other "viral" license.


      • Microsoft is not against open source. They've used BSD-licensed software, and more than WiX has been released under an open source license. What Microsoft has "sworn against" is "Free Software" as RMS would call it, or to the rest of us, software using the GPL or other "viral" license.

        To be more specific, they're against software taht can't be incorporated into their software and then resold with impunity.



        • To be more specific, they're against software taht can't be incorporated into their software and then resold with impunity.

          Yet Microsoft includes GNU/GPL [microsoft.com]utilities incorporated within their Services For Unix product that has been both sold and given away over the years. With impunity.

          • Yet Microsoft includes GNU/GPL utilities incorporated within their Services For Unix product that has been both sold and given away over the years. With impunity.

            By incorporated, I mean using the source as part of a product, not bundling existing programs and distributing them.

      • Microsoft is not against viral licenses; indeed, they use one themself. Don't believe me? Try releasing code based on the Windows source. You will rapidly find that Microsoft claims that they own your work; in essence, their IP will infect yours.

        The 'viral license' meme is deviously subtle, because it implies that there are licenses that are non-viral; the only non-virally-licensed software is public domain. If you license your software in a way that permits me to release derivative works, and if your soft
    • It must has been a slow saturday to publish this...

  • As long as it's such an unessential.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Karamchand ( 607798 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @05:37PM (#10481437)
    ..components as the Windows installer I don't mind; no, actually I am happy that even MS can contribute a bit to the open source world.

    Simply because the whole MySQL project can't be taken down by MS even though they're using Wix. It's not important enough for the project's life, that's it!
  • A small triumph over the near hysterical patent paranoia.

  • Great news (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rnd() ( 118781 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @05:38PM (#10481445) Homepage
    By opening up the source and making it possible for OSS developers to use a high quality installer, Microsoft has shown that it realizes the importance of Open Source software to its user base.

    • Re:Great news (Score:5, Informative)

      by Osty ( 16825 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @06:00PM (#10481564)

      By opening up the source and making it possible for OSS developers to use a high quality installer, Microsoft has shown that it realizes the importance of Open Source software to its user base.

      WiX is not the installer. WiX is an XML schema and processor that let's you more easily build MSI installers. There's nothing stopping you from looking up the documentation on the Windows Installer [microsoft.com] at MSDN and building your own MSI programmatically, or building your own WiX-like processor, or whatever you want. The Windows Installer SDK is part of the Platform SDK, and I'm pretty sure that linking against base platform libraries is allowed even by the GPL (it's one of those things that's frowned upon, but allowed because otherwise you could only write GPL software to run on Linux or HURD).

      Also, Nullsoft's NSIS [sourceforge.net] (I still think they should've carried on the PiMP/SuperPiMP naming, rather than getting all "professional") has been open source and available for years. It doesn't compile down to an MSI installer, but Nullsoft's own format, and the language and installer is pretty powerful. MSIs give you some pretty cool and powerful abilities that you can't do from NSIS, but 90% of all installers don't need much more than the ability to decompress some files, copy them around, and write some regkeys.

    • Yes, but Bill and Steve simply do not know what goes on in every corner of their Monopoly. I don't think that they realise anything of the sort, indeed I believe that due to his obvious mental problems, Bill is actually incapable of realising such a thing, but a few people within the Criminal Monopoly obviously do understand the importance of Open Source.

      I expect a major tantrum when Bill finds out about this!

  • WiX problem (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Random Web Developer ( 776291 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @05:38PM (#10481449) Homepage
    I've been trying to get my feet wet with this WiX stuff, but really the documentation is extremely lacking.

    It looks neat but there's no way to find out the complex stuff without generating an xml from an msi or something.

  • Not the first? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Handyman ( 97520 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @05:44PM (#10481484) Homepage Journal
    The Windows Template Library [microsoft.com] is released as CPL [microsoft.com] as well. I don't know since when this has been, but the product has been in existence for quite some time now.

  • Next step... (Score:5, Funny)

    by gmuslera ( 3436 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @05:58PM (#10481554) Homepage Journal
    ... Microsoft will add security and a lot of features to MS SQL Server replacing it by MySQL.

  • Software packaging underrated (Score:5, Informative)

    by Schreckgestalt ( 692027 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @06:00PM (#10481561)
    I, as a guy working at a large company, dealing with software packaging and software distribution, welcome EVERY PROJECT using WiX.

    Apache already does release an MSI format package, maybe they, too, could convert to WiX.

    And then, there's only PHP left, that should come in an MSI file, and all would be fine.

    OSS programmers should realize how important the installation package is. Because with an intelligent enough package (MSIs for Win32, debs for Debian etc), it's no longer simply copying and possibly files, but real Software Management. This is going to open doors to the large companies.

    And yes, I know, MSI is a Microsoft idea, but it does make sense. Any large customer nowadays wants all the software to be re-packaged in MSI format (hell, repackaging Oracle Client sucks, you can believe me!).

    • Any large customer nowadays wants all the software to be re-packaged in MSI format (hell, repackaging Oracle Client sucks, you can believe me!).

      Sort of a tangent, but I want to send a large "BAH!" to Oracle on behalf of everyone who has to deal with their buggy software. Any software on any OS which cannot properly deal with spaces in filenames is horribly broken in my book. After seeing the awfulness that is the "Oracle Installer" I wonder why anyone thinks their database is so hot.


    • And then, there's only PHP left, that should come in an MSI file, and all would be fine.

      Or, like so much other Open Source software, you could package a build and contribute it back to the PHP project.

  • Now I'm worried . . . (Score:4, Insightful)

    by StateOfTheUnion ( 762194 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @06:05PM (#10481594) Homepage
    I didn't know that MS was doing anything open source, but now that I know, I can't help but worry:

    Is this the first step of MS trying to get into open source and become a major player? Microsoft has never been an innovator, but they are really good at stealing someone else's idea and business model (e.g. netscape, realplayer, etc., etc.) . . .perhaps they will foray into the "give the open source software away for free and sell the services and maintenance" business model. I'm sure that they won't do this for their core products . . . but for other things . . . like development tools or less popular products . . . maybe?

    • I don't think we should worry. I think MS understood that OSS is more than just for enthusiasts and that there is potential. I'm pretty sure they are testing this with WiX to see how far it goes and how popular it gets and if it's a success on a long shot, that they will create other projects for the same reason.

      Sure its MS and they're evil in some way but remember, they aren't SCO :o

  • Encouraging developments..... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by i_want_you_to_throw_ ( 559379 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @06:31PM (#10481757) Journal
    Regarding Open Source: There's nothing to stop Microsoft from putting out Microsoft Linux is there?

    I don't like Microsoft but they will stop being hated so much when they transition themselves from a company that expects to create standards to one that merely contributes to them.

    IBM learned that lesson and geeks love them now but they were the Microsoft of their day.

    As long as MySQL stays MySQL who cares? Maybe Microsoft will FINALLY have a true understanding of what open source is now. (Probably not though...)

  • PostgreSQL (Score:5, Informative)

    by dracvl ( 541254 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @06:53PM (#10481948) Homepage
    ...has had this for a while already [pgfoundry.org].

  • Re:Patents in this kind of case? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Chemicalscum ( 525689 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @07:21PM (#10482163) Journal
    Since MS used IBM's CPL as the open source license for this software there is nothing to fear on the patent question. The CPL explicitly grants a patent waver for use, development and distribution of the software (it is a viral waver). So Microsoft has legally comitted itself to not using its patents against anyone using this software. They are obviously using the CPL for the same reason that IBM originally introduced the CPL - not to scare off anyone from adopting open source software from a major patent holder, because of fears that it could be a patent trap.

    It is this patent waver as a requirement for distributing the software that makes the CPL incompatible with the GPL as it imposes additional restrictions on redistribution over the GPL. However I understand that the FSF is considering putting in a patent clause in the next version of the GPL which would both make the CPL compatible with the GPL and restrict possible patent abuse.

    • There is alrady a patent clause in the GPL. The current clause says that software cannot be distributed under the GPL if it is patent encumbered. It seems (did not RTFL) this license goes a step further and includes (and requires!) a patent license as part of it.

      Not sure how the FSF will proceed here. The comments they sent me regarding the Sveasoft abuses of the GPL implied that they did not consider a license that virally applies contract terms to be valid. I.e. they would not be able to enforce a li

  • Windows Centric (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @08:44PM (#10482688) Homepage Journal
    Whey have an installer for each OS you are supporting? It seems counter productive..

    Wouldnt it be better just to use a single installer for everything?

    I know there are commercial ones ( like installanywhere ) and im sure there are opensourced ones.. If not, then perhaps its time for one.
    • Whey have an installer for each OS you are supporting? It seems counter productive..

      Because operating systems work differently? POS installers are a reason most shareware/freeware/open source windows software has so many problems

    • Re:Windows Centric (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Bert64 ( 520050 )
      Wouldnt it be ironic to port WiX to linux.. You can bet microsoft made it windows only for a reason, and porting it to linux would be amusing at the very least.

  • This would be perfect for Mozilla Firefox, too! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ManxStef ( 469602 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @08:45PM (#10482704) Homepage
    Assuming there aren't any overriding difficulties with patents or licence problems, this would absolutely ideal for deploying Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird. One of the biggest issues holding Firefox back from enterprise deployment in MS shops is the fact that there's no MSI installer. This would allow it to be rolled out to all the desktops domain-wide via Group Policy and , as the installer tracks any changes made, it can be rolled-back/uninstalled or upgraded easily. All that would needed to add to that would be some basic properties (hopefully via GPOs also) to allow admins to customise & lock it down a little (say, auto-set the web proxy details), and it'd be perfect!

    In fact, after doing a quick search it looks like someone's already done it (don't know if it uses WiX, though it is mentioned in the Bugzilla listing):
    http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=1380 33 [mozillazine.org]

    Superb! Finally a way to get rid of IE from the corporate desktops :)

  • The meaning of Wix in german... (Score:3, Funny)

    by sipmeister ( 615618 ) on Saturday October 09, 2004 @08:53PM (#10482738)
    ...is to jerk off, or wank, as the Brits would say. My recommendation: don't wix too much, it gives you blisters ;-)

  • About the license... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by polyp2000 ( 444682 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @06:53AM (#10485053) Homepage Journal
    Suppose I wanted to port WiX to run and install linux applications on linux (if i felt there were good reason to do so) would the license allow me to do so? And what-if I wanted to build an application for linux that used parts of WiX code ? say the XML parsing code or something?

    Could using parts of microsofts open source offerings (in some cases) act as a double whammy against possible patent suits in the future? They aint gonna sue project (X) if it means project (Y) which they quite like might be affected etc.

    If projects like MySQL are making the decision to use WiX it might be nice if their products used the same installer no matter which operating system is select as the base.

    Nick

  • Wix.. (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    is just an awesome name for native German speakers like me! It means something like jerking off...Haha! I guess they'll have to rename it as soon as it becomes more popular..
  • I swore off MS-based products during the XPSP2 debacle -- cold turkey.

    I don't care that it's open sourced. It's microsoft. I'll be moving my databases to pgsql just as soon as it's technically feasible.

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