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3com to Compete with Cisco 181

RNelson writes "3com has announced its new lines of routers poised to compete with Cisco. 'The company claims that these routers will cost 30 percent to 50 percent less than similar offerings from market leader Cisco.' The new routers compete the Cisco's 3725, 3745, and 83xx routers."
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3com to Compete with Cisco

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  • but will it (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anarke_Incarnate ( 733529 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:21AM (#10245633)
    compete with Juniper? Since Juniper got Netscreen, they look like a nice player to compete with Cisco. We'll see if this is a three horse race, but I like what Juniper's doing. Their SSL VPN appliance is also very sweet.
  • Foolish move... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:21AM (#10245640)
    3Com's router/switch business got beat up precisely because it couldn't compete with Cisco gears. Are they back for more black eyes?
  • backdoors (Score:1, Interesting)

    by GMail Troll ( 811342 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:27AM (#10245693)
    Given Cisco's security history [slashdot.org], switching to someone else might be a good idea.


    gmail invite [google.com]

  • by Vexler ( 127353 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:28AM (#10245701) Journal
    You know, a while ago Cisco brought suit against the Chinese technology company Huawei for allegedly stealing Cisco's IOS interface and perhaps even code for their routers. I believe the suit was eventually settled with Huawei agreeing that they will "cease and desist". And now 3Com seems to have buddied up with Huawei and come up with their own line of routers, which seems to be 3Com's attempt to be everything to everybody. The problem is that you can only cram so much technology into the box without charging extra for it, as 3Com is doing. With Cisco's dominance in the market place, sooner or later it will hit you in the bottom line and you will be left with very limited set of choices.
  • Re:30-50% less? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jayhawk88 ( 160512 ) <jayhawk88@gmail.com> on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:33AM (#10245749)
    True story: We have a Cisco VPN (don't know model off hand) that we needed to order an extra 256 meg of RAM for. We call up our Cisco rep, and they get a price quote from Cisco of $9600. For a 256 piece of RAM. The damn VPN itself only cost like $12k. So our Cisco rep does some more calling around, trying to find out what the story is with that price, and finally comes back with a price of $450 or something like that.

    So obviously this is much better and we're all relieved, and then it dawns on us: Who else other than Cisco can buy PC133 sticks of RAM in bulk for probably $10 a pound, stick a "Cisco Certified" sticker on them, then sell it to you for $450 a stick, and make you feel like you're getting a good deal?
  • by PhiberOptix ( 182584 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:36AM (#10245781)
    Here where i work i would rather use 3com than cisco. Even though pretty much every equipment we have is from cisco, imo 3com software is much easier to use than ciscos ios.

    also i hate all the different software versions (SMI, EMI, etc) that comes preinstalled in cisco switches.
  • Interesting (Score:1, Interesting)

    by ryg0r ( 699756 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:36AM (#10245782)
    Cisco certainly has a large grip on the enterprise router market, 90% the article says.

    Most of the time coporate bodies switch on price (or just fire more people) so good work 3Com.

    When that article came up on /. [slashdot.org] I knew that more brands of routers need to hit the market and quickly.

    With one company, you inherent all the faults of that company. With different companies coming up to play the game, you'd have vastly different gaps and holes.

    Its all about moving away from the typical exploits.

    Hmmm, I think posting late at night makes my sentences incoherent. Sorry guys.

  • Confused (Score:2, Interesting)

    by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:37AM (#10245800) Journal
    For this article to be posted, we must either hate or love one of Cisco or 3Com.

    I can't think of any reason to particularly give a hoot about either, but this non-news article could only have been posted as a chance to flame a company we hate, or praise a company we love.

  • Re:30-50% less? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gmack ( 197796 ) <gmack@noSpAM.innerfire.net> on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:43AM (#10245849) Homepage Journal
    Too late, I've already been burned by 3Com. We had a switch show up DOA and called them for a replacement only to have them demand payment for a second switch before they would ship the replacement. When that didn't happen they told us to send the switch backand as it turned out.. they didn't even have that model in stock they told us we would get our replacement in three weeks! After fighting it out with them I managed to talk them down to a week and a half.

    Contrast that with Cisco: Last time I had a Cisco with a dead port they sent me the replacement overnight delivery and then told me I had three weeks to return the old one or be sent a bill.

    Cisco's advantage is their customer service. They have your back when things go bad. 3Com doesn't understand this and until they do I won't consider them a serious player.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:44AM (#10245854)
    I used to work for them, and I will say each component in their line is probably overpriced for what it is.

    That said, you don't just pay for the name, you pay for the brand, the relationship, the support, and the leadership. They do something similar to what Microsoft does, but in a much more benign way, IMHO. They make sure their products work well and give advantages in the way they interact with other Cisco equipment, but then they work with others on interoperability as well. This creates a level playing field and allows "innovation" in important areas, but then they work closely with standards bodies to standardize the parts that "deserve" to be universally applied across the whole internet.

    One such example is multicasting. There are many different standards for multicasting, *even across Cisco's own line*! However, they will work to standardize it and then implement that standard on all of their routers and encourage others to do the same through marketing, partnering, and collaborative development. They line up everyone in advance, even competitors, and work to get such a standard universally accepted.

    Basically, they really do have true leadership. They choose the protocols and technologies that have a chance of getting wide adoption, and make sure that they are the ones behind them. That increases their visibility and credibility in a self-perpetuating cycle.

    Of course, I might be biased from having worked with them, so I would love to hear other opinions. I came away thinking that it's a first class organization, and while not perfect, is certainly a model for how competition, cooperation, and coordination should interact.
  • Re:30-50% less? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jayhawk88 ( 160512 ) <jayhawk88@gmail.com> on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:46AM (#10245878)
    The 4210 IDS we have is basically a re-branded Dell rack mount. I needed a 256 memory upgrade for it to run the 4.x OS update, which luckly we got for free under maintenance contract, but if not would have cost us like $500. And I installed the memory, I know for a fact it wasn't anything more than a genereric DIMM stick.
  • by e1618978 ( 598967 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:54AM (#10245951)
    Yes you can have it all, because Cisco has an 80% margin or something. You can under charge them by a whole lot and still make money. You could spend twice as much per customer to get them more of what they want, charge half what Cisco does, and still make money. BTW - NASA sucks. They spend way too much money to accomplish way too little, so not a good example there.
  • by agristin ( 750854 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:55AM (#10245964) Journal

    Cisco is in an interesting position in spite of buying linksys, they will face competition from 3com (who is positioned below them in the market now) and from above by Juniper. Both Juniper and 3Com are getting into the access router comptetion.

    I'd like to know if 3com has some or any of the convergence features (voip, ipv6, qos, multicast) that new networks often need. Cisco access routers may cost, but it is easy to implement a network with some excellent modern features. Cisco has a modular product line that will allow you to implement without VOIP or other features and then later add it easily. It is also easy to find people familiar with cisco IOS command line. You may pay less for a 3com router, and then waste time configuring it or finding out you can't configure the features you need.

    For Juniper a different set of problems (as there are a few people out there that know JunOS and there is a training infrastructure for it like Cisco). Juniper may have the convergence features (I don't know I haven't looked at the product line), but it is more likely as they are moving from the top down.

    Cisco will face some interesting comptetion, but I'm sure they will respond- which can only be good for the customer.

    -A

    Disclaimer: I am Cisco certified and like using their networking equipment.
  • by tlon ( 154006 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:55AM (#10245965) Homepage

    The author mentions that these products compete against the Cisco 3725, 3745, and 83xx (that should read 8xx series) routers.

    In related news, Cisco today announced three new router families, the 1800 series, the 2800 series, and the 3800 series, which are positioned to replace the 1700, 2600, and 3700 series. Nice of 3Com to position against an obsolete technology platform

    Competitors are crawling out of the woodwork with products positioned against Cisco's old tired iron, but Cisco isn't exactly sitting back on its laurels and scratching its head.

    What all these competitors are missing is that Cisco's router strategy has subtly changed in the last 18 months: voice features and services are a key part of Cisco's differentiation, and none of its competitors, be it Juniper, ADTRAN, Tasman, Enterasys, or 3Com, have stepped up to challenge Cisco on that front.

    VoIP is an ideal in the branch office, and Cisco is in a cushy position to get a corner on that market unless some of its competitors get their act together.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @10:57AM (#10245979)
    Unless 3com has finally fixed their issues with autodetection of 3com nics working with their 3com switches.. forget about it..

    I know Cisco stuff works.. and it's EXPENSIVE.. personally i LOVE alcatel switches.. they worked as advertised.. and unlike cisco.. were pretty simple to configure.. I hate cisco IOS.. unless you use it all the time.. every day.. it's impossible to configure without having to go back and make changes before you get it right.. that and IOS isn't consistent across platforms.. what works on a 3600 doesn't necessairly work on a switch.. doesn't necessairly work on a cat5000..

    Alcatel.. good gear.. too bad more people don't use it.

  • by ARRRLovin ( 807926 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @11:00AM (#10246033)
    ....of discontinuing products and then removing every trace of that product on their website (firmware, manuals, etc) and that will keep me from ever buying or recommending their products. I have an entire wireless setup at home, 3 "Office Gateways" and some other gear (not in use) that I should just throw away because they don't even acknowledge its existence, much less provide me with a PCMCIA card driver or access point/router firmware.
  • Re:30-50% less? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Zak3056 ( 69287 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @11:26AM (#10246278) Journal
    Contrast that with Cisco: Last time I had a Cisco with a dead port they sent me the replacement overnight delivery and then told me I had three weeks to return the old one or be sent a bill.

    HP is similar as far as their network gear goes--lifetime warranty where the replacement part shows up on your doorstep the next morning with a prepaid label in the box to ship the defective unit back.

  • Re:30-50% less? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @11:40AM (#10246518)
    Several years back (around the days of the Kornikova virus) we had our router start acting up. I called Cisco and explained that our network guy was 'released' from the company and they stuck me (a programmer) with his job so I did not know how this thing was configured. They telnetted into the router and found the problem, they then had me plug our cold spare in and they tftp'd the config over so they were in sync and later that night called me up to tell me that while they were in there they noticed a few other things that were configed wrong and they fixed those problems too. The next day the same tech support guy called me again and walked me through basic administration of the router so I would be more comfortable with it.

    That is excellent customer service and I remember that support guy to this day.
  • by jonesboy_damnit ( 773676 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @11:41AM (#10246528)
    ..3Com used to make all kinds of high-end networking gear (those of you in the cable industry will be familiar with 3Com CMTSes). Their kit never adhered to standards ("DOCSIS? What's DOCSIS?" - as if DOCSIS equipment needed any help being incompatible and/or unpredictable with other DOCSIS gear), never worked properly, and their support was always terrible.
    One of our customers bought about $50k worth of 3Com broadband over cable equipment, called a few days later to ask about a firmware upgrade, and were informed that 3Com had never made such a piece of equipment.
    Classy.
    -Matt
  • by Vexler ( 127353 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @12:07PM (#10246841) Journal
    We have had extremely patient Cisco TAC engineers on the phone with us for hours trying to resolve a Catalyst 4507R that kept blowing power supplies, and a VPN Concentrator that refused all connectivity after a firmware upgrade (by the way, we were credited with the discovery of a previously unknown bug). If ever their gears go on the blink, you have TAC engineers leaving messages on YOUR voicemail days after the incident was resolved, following up with you to make sure that you are absolutely satisfied with the resolution.

    It's not just the brand, it's the whole support infrastructure with them. Cisco is to the networking world what Dell is to the PC world, in terms of customer support caliber.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @12:33PM (#10247158)
    Try this on for size. How about a AFDX (Avionics Full Duplex Swithced Ethernet) network card that costs $19,000 and $10,000 USD (price varies with form factor). It is similar to a commodity Ethernet card that has redundancy and is deterministic. But since so few are produced and the customers have deep pockets, the price is steep.
  • Re:30-50% less? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by H8X55 ( 650339 ) <jason...r...thomas@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @12:43PM (#10247249) Homepage Journal
    This is industry standard upgrade practice. Dell does it too. Years ago we paid an arm and a leg (hundreds of dollars) for a "memory upgrade" for a PERC3 DCL Raid Controller in a Poweredge server. Imagine how pissed my boss was when it came in and the 128MB stick of SDRAM matched perfectly the sticks we were buying from Crucial.com for $26 each, shipped.

    that one should have went back, but it didn't because corporate had already cut the check and bossman had to save face - "Now our e-mail server is faster..."

    and the wheel goes round.
  • Software (Score:2, Interesting)

    by hhawk ( 26580 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @12:55PM (#10247387) Homepage Journal
    Back in the day when I was buying my first real Router a 20k unit from Cisco I had looked at a similar 3com offering. It was clear it was better on a pure packet handling basis, but the software wasn't anything I needed. I think it did some Novel Routing and TCP/IP (et. al.), but I didn't have support for sample for giving ethernet routing to Apple computers "then" still on LocalTalk (a key feature for me); but it was more than just Apple support. Cisco had much more software in Router to really let me set up the network I really needed...

    I hope they have learned from that lesson...
  • Re:but will it (Score:3, Interesting)

    by _Sprocket_ ( 42527 ) on Tuesday September 14, 2004 @01:23PM (#10247693)
    Netscreen's service is (was) excellent. And that was a key issue for us as service was one issue we had with Checkpoint. But as I've said - with the aquisition by Juniper, our service contract has increased fairly steeply with a decrease in the level of service (although the old Netscreen guys are still great once we get ahold of them).

    As we've all seen before... it is possible to kill a great product by overcharging for crappy service. Now... I'm not saying that's where we are now. It's too early to tell yet. But we're definately a bit nervous (and a little annoyed at how quick Juniper was to increase our cost for support before ironing out the wrinkles).

    I hope (for our own good at least) it all works out.

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