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IBM IT

Linux-only POWER5 server From IBM 232

Posted by Hemos from the making-the-rounds dept.
vaporland writes "This story from Infoworld.com talks about IBM's new low priced POWER5 based servers which will ship with Red Hat or Suse Linux, but not IBM's AIX. My question is, will it boot up Apple's OSX Server?"
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Linux-only POWER5 server From IBM More

Linux-only POWER5 server From IBM

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  • Boot OSX Server? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Lapzilla ( 739264 )
    Highly doubtful, OSX requires special roms... Maybe in Mac-On-Linux though.

    • Re:Boot OSX Server? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by cyngus ( 753668 )
      Something tells me that booting up OS X Server on an XServe is going to be cheaper than these babies.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re:Boot OSX Server? (Score:5, Informative)

        by Frymaster ( 171343 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @01:04PM (#10237001) Homepage Journal
        Something tells me that booting up OS X Server on an XServe is going to be cheaper than these babies

        like the internet, for instance...

        the openpower 720, acording to the press so far, "starts" at $5000 for a 1.5 ghz model. that's one chip. no specs on ram or disk space or bus speed or whatnot.

        by comparison, $4000 will get you an xserve with dual 2 ghz g5s and a gig of ram.

        now, admittedly, that's a crappy set of comparison data... but for those who are willing to jump to a conclusion or two: apple wins on price/performance. big time.

        • Not really a comparison though. I've got a bunch of xserves in the lab, and they're really cool, but they compete with dual-cpu rack'n'stack dells. They are definately an entry-level server. They are cheap, simple, elegant, but not an answer to every question. I don't think apples ready to compete in the mid-range server market. Their focus seems to be on the A/V pro-apps.

    • Re:Boot OSX Server? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Highly doubtful, OSX requires special roms

      Is this still true? Apple began moving away from ROMs with the colored (New World) machines, and used a file called "Mac OS ROM" for OS 9. I was under the impression that they ditched the ROM thing entirely for OS X.

      • Re:Boot OSX Server? (Score:5, Informative)

        by greed ( 112493 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:42PM (#10236772)

        You're thinking of the old Mac Toolbox ROM from the Old World machines.

        On New World machines, they check for Apple-specific entries in the Open Firmware device map. There's a whole device tree that won't be present on a non-Apple machine.

        So, theoretically, if you could work up enough Forth to get the appropriate entries on a non-Apple machine, it should work....

        Another trick is that OS X only works with USB keyboards and mice, not with PS/2 devices. IBM pSeries machines still have PS/2 inputs. And RS-232 serial. And IEEE 1284 parallel. And video cards OS X has never heard of. And....

        • Darwin does support PS/2, RS232 etc...it also supports pretty much any video card in an unaccelerated mode - which isn't that important in a server.

          And, for what it is worth, OS X supports USB RS232/432 devices.
          And, of course, there are the various virtual machines that will let you run OS X and Darwin under Windows - if they can virtualize those devices, no doubt it could be done on a pSeries.

          OTOH, no doubt that the pSeries will be no cheaper than an XServe.

          -S

        • Re:Boot OSX Server? (Score:3, Informative)

          by cymen ( 8178 )
          How does PearPC boot up MacOS X on x86? According to one of the forums for PearPC, the legal issue is no longer present with newer systems.

          http://pearpc.sourceforge.net/

          BTW, 0.4 runs MacOS X somewhat decently on my system (AMD64 3200+). Still painful but it's neat to see an operating system in action that is getting so much press.
      • and used a file called "Mac OS ROM" for OS 9. I was under the impression that they ditched the ROM thing entirely for OS X.

        That's correct. However, I think* you probably need an 'enabler' file for the particular model. From what I understand, the enabler is basically a driver. For what exact device(s), I'm not sure. If someone could reverse those files and create one designed for this machine (difficulty of this unknown to me) then you could probably run Mac OS X on it.

        * This whole paragraph might be wro
        • Wow, I haven't seen enabler files in ages. I'm pretty sure those were ditched in the OS 7.5-8.x days. I believe they were superceded by the specific ROM files for the various New World machines (see above).
    • Doesn't MacOSX also require a G4/G5? AFAIK,they are modified POWER4s with Altivec, not POWER5s.

    • Re:Boot OSX Server? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by FuzzieNorn ( 203503 ) <fuzzie@warped[ ]es.com ['gam' in gap]> on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:42PM (#10236774) Homepage
      Um, interesting, because those ROMs aren't present in .. any of my machines running OS X. Welcome to newworld. The only OSX-running machines which isn't newworld are the beige G3s, and they're not even supported any more.

      Even OS 9 has supported having the ROM present in a file rather than physically present for ages.

  • Big blue.. tux? (Score:4, Informative)

    by qmchenry ( 266894 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:17PM (#10236480)
    IBM wants your apps. They'll give you a free laptop bag [ibm.com] if you develop an app for Linux on their Power platform. I think the most disturbing thing about this is the picture of Tux in a blue tux. He looks like he's ready to sing in a lounge somewhere.

    But (somewhat) seriously, I could make room a four-way 64 bit Linux box on my desk. Chances are you've probably not seen my desk -- not an easy task.

    • Re:Big blue.. tux? (Score:5, Funny)

      by TWX ( 665546 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:24PM (#10236570)
      "Chances are you've probably not seen my desk -- not an easy task."

      Ah, but have you seen your desk? If not in the past few years I'll be impressed.
      • "Ah, but have you seen your desk? If not in the past few years I'll be impressed."

        I was dissapointed to learn that your desk has to be missing for at least two years before the police will officially consider it missing. Sad because, by then, it could develop its own ecosystem.
      • Hey, I just dug back down to the desk level view here over the past few weeks. Quite an effort, and will probably result in the offloading of a bunch of crap to ebay....
    • Chances are you've probably not seen my desk -- not an easy task.

      While the old saying does, "Never judge a man until you have sat for a day at his desk." I have to wonder if it even holds a candle to some truely messy desks. [bash.org]
      • yippee... a contest I stand a chance of winning!!! seriously, I started my new job today and my workspace is rather sparse compared to those... but give it a week...

  • No. (Score:5, Funny)

    by wankledot ( 712148 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:17PM (#10236486)
    "My question is, will it boot up Apple's OSX Server?"

    No. Next question.

    • Re:No. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I've been fighting with one of these for the past few days and from what I can see it doesn't bloody run anything.

      It won't do much but look pretty and no-one inside big blue seems to know sh!t about it.

      Config is a nightmare, no success yet.

      Posted anonymously should any senior management be reading this...
  • instead of a bunch of people with no idea what the answer might be and just attack IBMs marketing practises
    • The EULA that came with my copy of OS X Server says you aren't allowed to install the OS on non-Apple hardware. You'll have to call them and work out a special agreement.

  • My answer is.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kenja ( 541830 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:18PM (#10236505)
    " My question is, will it boot up Apple's OSX Server?"

    Odds are that it wont. Diferent (if similar) CPU and architecture. Also, since when is 5k$ low cost?

    • Re:My answer is.... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Noksagt ( 69097 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:25PM (#10236572) Homepage
      Also, since when is 5k$ low cost?
      For something from Big Blue, this is a bargain basement price.

      • $5k (Score:2)

        by siskbc ( 598067 )
        For something from Big Blue, this is a bargain basement price.

        Or for something running OS X...

        It's a joke people...I own a powerbook.

  • x86/AMD pretty much rules the linux market to date, although it would be great to see an alternative get entrenched.

  • No (Score:5, Informative)

    by Dynedain ( 141758 ) <slashdot2NO@SPAManthonymclin.com> on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:19PM (#10236512) Homepage
    My question is, will it boot up Apple's OSX Server?"

    No, because OSX does checks to look for Apple-specific hardware on boot.

    • Re:No (Score:4, Informative)

      by FuzzieNorn ( 203503 ) <fuzzie@warped[ ]es.com ['gam' in gap]> on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:45PM (#10236801) Homepage
      Good thing the kernel's open source, then. There are things like XPostFacto [macsales.com] which make OS X work on older Macs by providing the necessary drivers/etc and faking things as necessary, for instance.

    • Re:No (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No, because OSX does checks to look for Apple-specific hardware on boot.

      Interestingly, if you boot OS X using Pear PC [sourceforge.net] a message appears during verbose boot stating "Warning: Apple Mac I/O Self Test fails", but then continues to boot. It would seem that OS X knows it's not Mac hardware, but doesn't care.

      • Re:No (Score:3, Interesting)

        by extra the woos ( 601736 )
        I can confirm this... PearPC always made me wonder why people AREN'T making mac clones right now!!! It's definately possible... Obviously i doubt you could get a special deal on os X or sell it advertising it that way, but nothing against you selling a ppc box with a retail copy of OS-X bundled with it...

        • Re:No (Score:2)

          by SEE ( 7681 )
          Except the OS X EULA bars one from legally running it on the hardware. While of questionable legality, is certainly enough to expose any attempted clonemaker to a draining Apple lawsuit.

  • AIX limitations? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kperrier ( 115199 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:20PM (#10236519)
    Is there anything on the silicon they would prevent me from installing AIX on it?

  • Virtual Performance Hit (Score:5, Interesting)

    by grunt107 ( 739510 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:22PM (#10236539)
    With the supposed capacity to emulate 20 servers virtually, can these low/medium-end POWER5s actually perform adequately (comparably to the single-servers they are targeting)? That seems like a bit of a stretch.

    It is commendable, however, that IBM is maintaining its Linux focus (at least on the servers). Now if they'd start pushing the desk/laptop a little harder...
    • Linux is commercially viable to support on servers.

      Where is the money in a Linux desktop? IBM wants to sell fewer, more expensive machines. Anything they could do to promote the desktop would be done cheaper by competetors.
    • What are the servers you replace. In our lab we have a server dedicated to being a proxy cache to our code-versioning software. We have a server dedicated to being an ssh tunnel. We have a server dedicated to a dns/nis/nfs server which is terribly under-utilized.

      No 4 power-5 processors aren't going to replace a dozen maxed-out dual-xeons. But more likely they will replace 2 maxed-out dual-xeons, and half a dozen servers that are largely underused. One clever thing they let you do is adjust the allocation o

  • What would be more interesting... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by iamdrscience ( 541136 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:26PM (#10236585) Homepage
    I would be much more interested in IBM dropping prices on a Power5 desktop. It seems unlikely, but I would buy that thing in a second.

  • Good news (Score:4, Interesting)

    by hackstraw ( 262471 ) * on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:27PM (#10236594)
    This is good news. Currently, there are few 64bit platforms where the hardware and software (Linux) are supported by the vendor. I wonder how well these will perform, and more importantly will IBM release a good compiler for them so that we can use them.

  • the better question (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:27PM (#10236598)
    Will it boot OS/2?

  • Redhat on Power architecture? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dr. Evil ( 3501 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:34PM (#10236674)

    When did IBM start using Redhat on the Power achitecture? It's been SuSE for a long time now hasn't it?

  • WOW! 'linux-only' means... (Score:3, Funny)

    by ant_tmwx ( 239616 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @12:48PM (#10236833) Homepage
    too busy to read the TITLE? this is even lazier than me. RTFT.
    • And of course we all know that the titles of Slashdot stories are 100% accurate, 100% of the time... Never exaggerated or just plain wrong.

      And by "Linux-only" they couldn't possibly have just meant that AIX doesn't come installed...
  • http://freshmeat.net/projects/mol/

    http://www.maconlinux.org

  • Mentioned in WSJ Today (Score:3, Informative)

    by jhoffoss ( 73895 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @01:28PM (#10237314) Journal
    This was mentioned in an article in the Wall Street Journal [wsj.com] today. The article is regarding vendor-backing of LSB2 [linuxbase.org]. Near the end, the WSJ stated this product is meant to compete with Sun and HP workstations. Link to related story [com.com], as WSJ's requires subscription services.
  • My understanding of OS X server is that it is basically a bunch of really nice GUI wrappers for free utilities. So, if you really needed an IBM Power5 server, couldn't we assume that you wouldn't need the slick OS X server UI?
  • The post says
    "This story from Infoworld.com talks about IBM's new low priced POWER5 based servers which will ship with Red Hat or Suse Linux, but not IBM's AIX."

    Does a 'low priced' linux-only server without AIX mean that AIX actually is the reason for the higher pricing of the other IBM servers!?!
  • We have an old RS-6000 server, model E30.
    It is running AIX 4.1.5.
    There is a vertical market application on it, that we have replaced by SAP in 1999, but the system still needs to be running because data stored in the application sometimes needs to be retrieved.

    Now, the system is dying. Disks are failing (not yet fatal because of the mirroring). The maintenance contract has been stopped, as earlier it was believed that it would be redundant by now.
    All our systems are now Intel-based and run Windows or Lin
    • Given the recent dramatic drop in rs/6000 prices, it might be cheaper & safer to just get a new aix box.

      You could probably get a new p615 for under $10k. Add four 15k-rpm 36-gbyte drives internally for data, and you've got a surprisingly cheap, fast, and reliable box. And there are lower-end options as well that might be able to save more money. Then once you migrate off this application you could resell the box, or put linux on it.

      Alternatively, getting an updated application from your vendor that
      • Add four 15k-rpm 36-gbyte drives internally for data

        This system is old. I think it was originally purchased in 1996. It has 4 1GB and 2 2GB disks in RAID-1... so 4GB of space.

        getting an updated application from your vendor

        The vendor is out of business. When we had the sources we would recompile it on Linux.
        Lesson: use open-source when possible!

        emulate aix on linux, that unfortunately doesn't sound likely to be reliable

        Reliability is not really a concern. It just needs to work, for a single us

  • Irrelevant question (Score:3, Insightful)

    by AchilleTalon ( 540925 ) on Monday September 13, 2004 @10:23PM (#10242699) Homepage
    I think asking if it will boot OS/X is just like asking: Yes, but will it boot Windows XP?

    It is just irrelevant to the marketing initiative and the goal of IBM. Why the hell should IBM cares about the PowerPC on the desktop when Apple is already providing a solution? Go and buy Apple!

    IBM is just unrolling the red carpet for Linux to enter enterprise data-centers in some of the most skeptical and demanding industries.

    The most interesting feature is the virtualization engine on the four processors model. Given what it is costing to some banking customers per server on the floor, while some are idle most of the time and only justified because they need a "separated box for security reasons", this single feature will sell the box by tons. And I know a customer who would benefit right away from this to replace about 50 servers by two or three of these. And two-third of these servers are Sun boxes. IBM is likely to get the integration project using their virtualization engine, they will lost some money on the maintenance since the remaining third is IBM boxes, but they will get fresh new cash for the new boxes, the project and kick-out Sun. Anything else they could wish to have?

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