The Cost of Computer Naivete 917
wiredog writes "What happens when you put an unprotected Windows 98 box on a broadband connection? Two perspectives from two reporters for the Washington Post (frr,yyy): The User's " an odyssey that has taken $800 and roughly 48 man-hours over nearly three weeks" and Digital Doctor's "Her PC was in such bad shape, it required 10 1/2 hours of surgery to restore it to working condition.""
To be fair to Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows 98 is 6 years old and isn't sold with computers anymore. This test just shows remaining Windows 98 users they should keep up to date or upgrade to XP.
Format? (Score:4, Insightful)
stupid (Score:2, Insightful)
They're idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
It takes me a lot shorter to install Win98 on a box and that includes saving any or all documents.
1.5 hours tops.
10.5 Hours? (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
And I hope she buys a Mac next time (Score:4, Insightful)
If she buys an Apple Mac computer next time, she will have a computer that functions better, works better, and breaks much more rarely than her current Windows computer. It's simple, really.
(Me, I use Debian GNU/Linux because I value the freedom that is in Debian's goals. I recognize that Apple shares to some degree these goals, looking at its KHTML-based Safari goals.)
Flame me, since many of you will, but consider that whether you blame the creators of Gator, Microsoft, or worm writers, she would have a better experience on a Mac.
"choice"
Surgery? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
I find it interesting (and a little frightening) how otherwise educated people (reporters, for instance) can be so clueless in critical areas. Is this inevitable for people?
And yes, I do consider basic computer literacy a critical skill; your computer is not just an appliance. Letting your computer get 0wned is much like letting your car run out of oil.
Yes but... (Score:5, Insightful)
So you're saying people in this position need to spend money to upgrade their hardware despite the fact that the current computer runs all the software they want to run at a speed they find acceptable.
Yes I know; install Linux.
10-1/2 hours?! (Score:2, Insightful)
Basically what happens is I spend at least an hour or two, (but not 10-1/2), removing programs, installing programs like Adaware, Spybot, ZoneAlarm (or make them buy a NAT device) and some decent Antivirus software.
Hmm... (Score:2, Insightful)
Or an unpatched version of XP - which is now 3 years old?
What happens if you go on holidays and leave your all you doors and windows open, and you change your answering machine message to "Hi, we're out and we won't be back for ages. Help yourself to whatever you need!"?
This is all Microsoft's fault.
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Jane Boxwine uses this computer for Quicken, maybe to email her family, Solitaire, and simple things like that. Her computer has not outlived its usefulness, but it is woefully underpowered by today's standards.
So now you're telling her that she has to spend $100 on a Windows XP upgrade *and* install an OS that will be very noticeably slower on her machine? You're telling her that Microsoft made mistakes and now Jane has to pay for it?
So what's the solution for Jane Boxwine?
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)
Merely switching to XP is not enough. As a relatively proficient user, if I were to set up a Windows machine for a friend or family member, for instance, I would make sure a virus scanner was available, along with a spyware scanner and tell them to run the spyware scanner once a week. I would also replace Internet Explorer with Firefox, or maybe Mozilla Application Suite.
The point is, Windows may be more stable out of the box than it used to be, but it is still susceptible to the exact same problems that its predecessors were, mainly due to flaws in IE and other MS programs such as Outlook.
Hosts File (Score:5, Insightful)
Once the infections were removed, LiveUpdate still could not retrieve the latest virus-targeting data. So I gave up on that and uninstalled and reinstalled the entire Norton AntiVirus program, hoping that its update system would work afterward -- but it did not. I again tried to access Microsoft's Windows Update Web site, but IE still failed to respond.
Suspecting a problem with Internet Explorer itself, I tried to repair IE using the Add/Remove Programs control panel. That didn't work either, producing an error message that indicated some file or files necessary for IE were damaged or inaccessible. Trying to restore the previous version of IE, 5.5, yielded no benefit, either.
Finally, I abandoned ship, reinstalling the entire Windows 98 operating system to repair the damage to Internet Explorer and allow Kathleen's computer to access the Internet and update the Norton AntiVirus definitions.
I always check that file. It always gets hijacked. I'd be willing to bet that was his problem.
Weeks to fix a computer... (Score:4, Insightful)
Drive C: contains a valid NTFS partion, are you sure you wish to format (y/N) y.
She was right on the cusp of greatness (Score:5, Insightful)
"What a revelation: Four programs -- one a firewall and three to combat spyware -- I downloaded FREE worked better than one I paid through the nose for. Why would anyone create these terrific programs for free? Often, as in the case of ZoneAlarm, they hope people will like the product so much they will buy an upgrade or, in the case of the spyware, pay to subscribe for upgrades."
She was right in the middle of the trees, and couldn't see the forest... yes, free software, even WINDOWS free software, works better and does what it says it does.
Talk about leading horses to water...
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
With Windows, you're left wondering if that's normal behavior...
Pick up the Ball Apple! (Score:3, Insightful)
"...More important, everybody selling to home users -- Microsoft, hardware manufacturers, software developers and retailers -- needs to do a better job of informing customers of the risks and potential problems of Internet access."
I don't know why Apple doesn't pick up this ball and run like hell with it.
Most of the people I know that run 98, 2000 or XP just assume that ANY computer OS, Windows or Mac has the same internet "experience", but it just costs more to have the same crappy "experience" on a Mac.
Not necessarily (Score:5, Insightful)
Or a doctor would think you clueless if your cholesterol was over 200. It's (usually) quite simple to keep your blood cholesterol low.
Unless it has happened to them or someone they know, most computer users are unaware of things like spyware, virii, etc.
Whose fault is it? The ISP. (Score:2, Insightful)
The ISPs are pushing broadband -- hard -- and should be responsible for either providing a HW firewall with their DSL/cable modem or at least educating their customers that they need to install one.
I felt the same way when the AOLers discovered Usenet years ago. AOL brought them here, so AOL should teach them netiquette.
Also, broadband ISPs should register their dynamic IPs at SORBS [sorbs.net].
It's not a Windows problem, it's a PC enduser problem. The domain technical contact is ultimately responsible for his users.
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
But in a nutshell, yes, she does need to upgrade if she wishes to keep using her machine as she's used to doing. This is a new environment and Win98 is an old system that quickly bogs down when you try to band-aid it with differing programs such as Anti-Virus or Firewalls (though some are less bulky than others).
Whenever I see a spyware-riddled PC, I reinstall Windows. There is no question. I've gone past running 3-4 different Ad/Spy-finder programs, and them all find something different, only to remove the invaders and then reboot and see that some hidden hook has returned most of them.
This is the sort of madness that most Win98 users live in, and sooner or later abandon it for a smarter OS, which is usually WinXP but on those fringe cases will actually add another point to the statistics of the most stable and robust Mac OSX or even Linux (for those who don't need games).
The solution is to change to something better, and growing pains will be involved. Is that a better answer?
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
So what's the solution for Jane Boxwine?
Switch!
You make good points.
But Jane's problem is that she knows about as much about her computer's operating system as she knows about the automatic transmission in her car.
She bought these advanced devices (computers, cars) in good faith that since everyone else seemed to be buying them, they must work somehow, and if there's a problem, then a lot of people will be in the same boat trying to solve the same problem, so that solutions will be easy to come by.
But there's more to Jane's computer problems than to her car problems: since she bought her PC, she's bought a bunch of convenient, shrink-wrapped boxes of software to run on that box.
If Jane gets up the courage to switch to something like Mac OS X or Linux, she won't know how to deal with getting that shrink-wrapped Windows application and all of its weird data files from her Windows box onto the new application.
Tragically for Jane, advantageously for Microsoft, there is a significant barrier discouraging her from switching to a competiting platform.
If the Windows API were an free, complete openly-published standard that competing companies could implement, then this wouldn't be a problem.
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)
continue using dial-up like she had when she bought it.
She can't expect to use a product for a new purpose without considering what impact that may have. if she wants to upgrade to broadband then she needs to be responsible and install a firewall.
Re:Bull (Score:2, Insightful)
Firstly, installing "everything" on a machine, including Office and other big application suites, on a 400MHz machine, with (very likely) a slow HDD, will take ages. Secondly, what if, for some reason, you can't just reinstall everything? In your case(s), you say you frequently just reformat and start from scratch, but do your customers provide you with the licensed software, or the CD keys of the software you need to install? And what if those are lost, and repairing is the only option?
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:And I hope she buys a Mac next time (Score:2, Insightful)
Grr.. (Score:3, Insightful)
If spyware, viruses, etc get on a machine, it is effective "0wn3d"
Granted, since I can't make a distro of Win98 (with all the upgraded patches, Office, etc) and reduce the re-install time from the 3hrs+ of most-of-the-time sitting at the computer hitting "next" or rebooting (seriously, the time it takes to backup data, format, reinstall Windows, upgrade patches, install applications, reinstall virus/spyware scanned data, install additional protection measures and configure (spywareblaster, virus scanner, firewall, firefox, yada yada) then I tend to do the following:
Run spyware check & virus check (both run mostly unattended, can do other stuff) -- consider the box good. If there are outstanding issues, run a quick hardware diagnostic (unless symptoms make me believe it is the issue initially) and if it checks ok, then reinstall.
Microsoft could have made it a LOT easier if we as IT pros could make a reliable windows "distro" -- throw all the most-requested software on the disk, be able to install it virtually unattended and have it have an updated driver database so hardware installs, again, mostly unattended.
I do use ghosting/sysprep when possible, but there are some serious limitations that only make it feesible for certain situations (ie computer labs, standardized business desktops).
I suppose to an extent, it is job security, but I'd rather spend my time building solutions, than fixing Microsoft's issues. Oh wait, WinXP SP2 will fix all that
Re:It's Interesting (Score:1, Insightful)
Reporters, journalists in general, are usually a lot less knowledgeable in any area than their writing would make you assume.
Of yourse, if you think about it, it makes perfect sense: People want to feel well informed when reading the morning paper or watching TV news. Therefore, journalists have perfected the art of seeming knowledgeable. Alas, once they did that, what incentive was left for going the extra mile and actually become knowledgeable? "None" would be a pretty good estimate.
This explains why people from many walks of life so often express the feeling that the press is usually knowledgeable -- except when reporting within their field of special knowledge.
10 1/2 hours way to long. (Score:2, Insightful)
The Cost of Nerd Naivete (Score:3, Insightful)
Doctors have Unions, called the AMA. Unions provide "Congress" protection. Dentists have Unions, called the ADA. Their Unions protect their industry by limiting enrollment and limiting both OUTsourcing and INsourcing. There are plenty of willing foreign Doctors prevented to emigrate to the U.S. to alleviate the high costs of Medical.
Doctors and Dentists are smart. They have Congress protection. They have social skills.
Techies and Nerds are stupid. They have poor personal skills. They have poor Congress protection. Hence, Congress screws their IT industry because they can. No protection. No Union. No AMA or ADA for Techies.
This is the cost of Techy naivete. It's the systematic destruction of their industry and jobs through OUTsourcing and INsourcing and Mass Immigration.
Outsource Congress this November.
Re:And I hope she buys a Mac next time (Score:3, Insightful)
I hope she'll realize that she has these problems because she chooses to use Microsoft products.
No, she has these problems becuase she didn't know about computer security. I've had my XP box for a couple of years, and had no problems. Norton AV, Windows Update and Windows Firewall have been just fine.
I'm no great fan of MS business practices, or some of their software, but you can run Windows quite stably and securely without much effort. Choosing to use MS is not the problem.
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)
The ratio of uberhacker to script kiddy being what it is, what I've said is much more applicable.
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)
You're naive if you think Linux doesn't have an upgrade-or-die problem.
I've frequently had problems trying to install an application that required a library more recent than the one I had, and there was no way to install that library. Oh sure, I could have downloaded the source code and built everything myself, but that's not a solution, that's a work-around.
If anything, I think Linux is worse than Windows in this regard. At least technically it's possible to install most new apps on Windows 98 and old apps on Windows XP.
Trying too hard. (Score:3, Insightful)
The secret is to keep a data drive and a OS drive, and when it ends up in the shitter (as it will, without a doubt), copy your data and reinstall. Sure, you can screw with the registry and a vast array of tools that claim they'll fix your computer...But trust me, they're a waste of time. A clean 98 install is good for 6 to 8 months of only minor suckitude.
Even better to make a ghost [symantec.com] image of a good install, and then restore it whenever you need to.
Re: Slow computer! (Score:5, Insightful)
But maybe that is just me.
Re:Slow computer! (Score:5, Insightful)
If the customer simply doesn't like the sound of rebuilding from scratch, you'll have to do it the hard way.
If the customer doesn't have access to original install media (and you're going to be a Good Little Tech and refuse to put pirated software on), you're going to have to do it the hard way.
Re: Slow computer! (Score:5, Insightful)
> Is it just me or should that guy be embarrassed to admit that he took 10.5 hours to reinstall an OS and a security suite?
Embarrassed? If he was charging $45/hour he should be bragging about it.
It's NOT Interesting (Score:2, Insightful)
I find it much more interesting how clueless the parent is. If he read the article he would have seen that the user did have computer literacy, with at least basic trouble shooting skills. The problem is that it is not easy to keep a windows box clean from any malware. MS (and others) need to be make it easier for users to protect their PCs (which, by the way, is the point of SP2). Computers should just work correctly, without users having to work very hard.
We in the computer industry need to all work toward this goal. Computers are tools to make things easier; they shouldn't make peoples' lives more difficult.
Is Apple listening? (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't see how Apple can afford to not take advantage of the current spyware/security craziness occurring in the Windows world, and put out a ballsy ad along the same lines. Perhaps show each computer out of the box being plugged into a broadband connection, and on the Windows box, instantly a dozen windows pop up advertising things. Something along those lines.
I use both Macs and Windows all the time. My mom has a Mac, because I don't have time for the "family tech support" that her having a PC would require. She does complain about occasional problems with the Mac, but I have no doubt it would be at least 3 times as bad if she was running Windows.
Hardware Firewall? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:For the benefit of Jane Boxwine... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Switch!
A router (with built-in firewall) is obviosly a better solution than a switch in this case.
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)
microsoft would be forced to compete on quality and price with all the other vendors offering compatible solutions, look at the price/performance/quality of hardware in the last few years due to competing hardware makers.
Users would be free to install whatever os they wanted, safe in the knowlege that all their apps would run the same under any of them.
And, with people running different os's with different or less security holes, there would no longer be a single static target for exploits to target.
Ofcourse this wouldn't fix good old human stupidity, but it would massively improve upon the situation which exists now.
Re:Slow computer! (Score:2, Insightful)
"If the customer doesn't have access to original install media (and you're going to be a Good Little Tech and refuse to put pirated software on), you're going to have to do it the hard way."
This is quite laughable. You will have more luck seeing little green men than a Windows "Good Little Tech" that does not have a trough full of pirated Windows software that they are not only willing to use but think it is almost silly not to.
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)
For me, that's exactly backwards. I'm very good with Windows, I've used it for many years, in it's many incarnations. I know how it's supposed to act - if it does something different than what I expect, then I know something changed.
I've been using Linux for a while, but I haven't developed that same level of familiarity (compounded further by its near-constant change). Its more rare now, but there's still times when it does something exactly correct, but not what I expected. The only reason I don't automatically assume "hacked" is because of the relative rarity of exploits on Linux (not to mention the various firewalls I have in place). For example, for awhile I freaked when (on FreeBSD) the locate database would be rebuilt: hard drive going crazy, without my touching it. It took investigation to figure out it was okay.
The first part of your statement I agree with totally; I could be hacked on my Windows and my Linux boxen, without knowing it (right now, someone could be watching me type this. Hi, Mr. Hacker!). The bit about blowing off abnormal behavior simply because it's Windows is utter crap.
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)
People who know their stuff also know that in 1996 there already existed linux distributions that did not run any services by default. This might still be vulnerable to bugs in the ip stack for example, bur I am very sure it is possible to install some distributions from that time on a machine, not instalkl any vendor updates, leaving it on for a few days, and not get rooted.
Stinger & Ad-Aware Nothing More (Score:4, Insightful)
It boils down to having a USB key with 5 programs. They all fit on a 16MB key. Sometimes if I know my client has a virus program ahead of time I will download the definitions, but not that often.
People's problems are always the same. Virus and spyware. I don't recommend that most people use a software firewall since everyone just gets click happy. I usually tell them to just get a router. I have yet to get a call back from any of my clients and each time I do see them they say they never have any problems. They also like the fact that the router is just a one time buy rather than constantly buying new software and upgrading. I know there are free programs out there, but most people just don't trust them (beats me why).
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
As much as I feel for the poor woman stuck with Windows '98, I can't really agree that it's Microsoft's fault. When Windows 98 was invented, it was reasonably secure. Since then, there have been many innovations, and things have changed. It is severely outdated, but as long as you know what you're doing, you can keep it running, but in the hands of a novice, it can be dangerous. No different than an old car.
Re:The Cost of Nerd Naivete (Score:2, Insightful)
Doctors and Dentists just have the best Unions. Oh what my parents did not tell me about life. I should have been a Doc.
Congress is screwing you in 3 devastating ways through Mass Immigration. There is more Mass Immigration now than at any time since the Civil War. 150 years.
1) IN sourcing mass foreigners through visas to replace you.
2) OUT sourcing 'til your company reamins only as a sales group representing another Sony.
3) Law Breaking: All mass immigration is because law breaking is profitable. Citizens must follow the law. Foreigners get exemptions. Remember, Japan does not suffer from OUT sourcing.
Congress is screwing you because you are ignorant. Bunch of lawyers they are.
Re: Slow computer! (Score:5, Insightful)
This bit of info was sorely lacking from both articles.
Re:Making ghost images (Score:1, Insightful)
Re: Slow computer! (Score:3, Insightful)
Second, as someone else pointed out in this thread, you do not expect a car to go on without maintenance. Come on, the computer is not a damn fridge. It is a COMPUTING device, and the Internet is a complex two-way medium, not a dumb TV set. If you do not take care of your car, you will end up with your thumb on the road. Same here. Tow-away and repairs.
So no, the technician did not act like a used car salesman. The dude just fixed a computer that was unusable.
Re:Yes but... (Score:2, Insightful)
In this case, the hardware upgrade that makes sense would have been a router. They are cheap enough that they are worthwhile for the firewall functions even on a single-user broadband connection, and they make setting up a new computer that much easier.
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)
The Morris Worm incident occured a FULL DECADE before Win98 was released. Microsoft's so-called engineers should have known better.
Windows was never "reasonably secure". It was designed based on the paradigm "internet, what internet?".
Re: Slow computer! (Score:3, Insightful)
Right and a week to do an OS install is OK how?
"If you do not take care of your car, you will end up with your thumb on the road. Same here. Tow-away and repairs."
Right but the miss in your analogy is that the mechanic billed for 5 times the book repair time.
Or actually took 5 times as long as it should have taken. And if that is the case how is it the problem of the client that it took that long?
10.5 hours for an OS install? No way. For $800 the client could have gotten a new computer.
Re:Slow computer! (Score:2, Insightful)
If the person has a legal license for windows (assuming they had windows pre-installed, they would), is it still pirated if you use different media?
That sounds like a BSA stance, not a legal one.
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)
-moitz-
Why SHOULDN'T Users be naive? (Score:3, Insightful)
If you went back in time (say 1950's) and were able to peer into the future to 2004 and saw how users had to be "educated" in computer usage (install anti-virus, anti-spyware, OS fixes AND having to keep the whole mess updated), I would think the first thing that people would ask is "Can't the computer do it?"
Patching, fixing, protecting: it's a computer for crying out loud! Why shouldn't users be naive? Why should people be wasting their time learning how to fix something that shouldn't be broken in the first place?
Take a step back, and it seems totally absurd that people need to learn to protect an operating system so bad that it can't protect itself. I call that "sickly".
Re: Slow computer! (Score:2, Insightful)
It would have been easier and by far the most intelligent course of action.
He should also be smacked in the head for not getting her off Windows 98. Windows 98 is 6+ years old. How many people here recommend 6 year old Linux distros?
Re: Slow computer! (Score:2, Insightful)
Restoring a UNIX(tm) system is merely tedious. Compare the existing system to that last known good archive and/or OS distribution media. Any missing or new files should be inspected manually and restored or deleted as needed. (All of this is done from a different system, obviously.)
I have un-r00t3d several systems over the years. And I've burned down a number of windows boxes. Erasing a system and starting over is not always a good solution as it will often take longer to reinstall all the applications and personal data than it would to inspect the entire system. (Of course, if a virus scanner has found 23,000 infections in 30mins, it's best to take it out to a field and shoot it.)
Re: Slow computer! (Score:5, Insightful)
I sometimes use and sometimes reccommend Windows 98. It doesn't have the security problems of XP/2000 (no Windows Messenger, no LDASS or whatever that was, no remote assistance, no product activation, no media player with evil crap in it, you can update it without revealing the software you use to Microsoft, the EULA doesn't allow Microsoft to impose new terms on you in the future, nor does it allow them to remotely install software on your machine. It's not as stable, but it only needs to run for long enough to play a game; nobody would be using Windows for any real work anyway, and you can dual-boot back to a proper operating system when you've finished playing the game.
Oh yeah, and "flamebait" is the button you want to press. Reccomending windows98 indeed! Don't I know that the moderators are all MS guys, with their "if you administered a billion computers for a fortune-500 company like I do, you'd know..." attitude.
Re:Not necessarily (Score:1, Insightful)
> For example, a tax accountant would probably think you clueless if you ended up having a big tax bill on April 15
I specifically *want* a large bill on April 15. My actual instruction to my CPA was "I want to owe as much as possible without incurring penalties"
It's my money, dammit! Not theirs. Why give it up any earlier than I have to?
People who look forward to getting a large refund are idiots. They just made a free loan to the government.
The only caveat are people who are incapable of saving. But if you cannot have money without spending every nickel, then you have other problems.
Mozilla anyone? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Trying too hard. (Score:2, Insightful)
This is *so* easy in Linux: Keep a
With Windows (even XP) you can't do that. NTFS partitions cannot be resized in the Logical Disk Manager (Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Computer Management).
Besides which, XP loves its "Documents and Settings" folder. Never mind that it always goes on the same drive as the Windows folder. This folder holds caches, e-mail (with a "Windows-standard-compliant" program like OE or Thunderbird), the My Documents folder and its offsprings, bookmarks, and history.
OK, so you can mount partitions in an NTFS folder, like mounting in Linux. But you need to:
1) During the install, create two partitions, or leave unpartitioned space
2) As soon as you get into using Windows, copy all of Documents and Settings into your new partition (formatted, obviously) and delete everything currently in Documents and Settings.
3) Remount the partition as Documents and Settings.
If you don't do this, my bet is that just running Windows will mean that some files in Documents and Settings are always being used and therefore cannot be deleted. And remember, even if you use the CD to get into Recovery Mode (which is basically DOS with NTFS support), you can't resize those NTFS drives.
Hardware firewall! (Score:3, Insightful)
I've setup DSL and T1s for lots of small companies and friends, and I always install a seperate firewall unit. Post-rebate, these things are sometimes $10 or less. (I wouldn't use one of the $10 units for a business, but it works great for Aunt Petunia.)
With a hardware firewall, you don't need to jump onto WindowsUpdate immediately. And you can get to WindowsUpdate and update the system before your system gets compromised.
Sure, your system is still vulnerable to viruses (via email) and spyware (via stupid user clicking and IE vulnerabilties), but you are very unlikely to get rooted or infected for simply existing on the Internet.
(Firewalls can have security holes too, but they usually aren't so gaping.)
And here's another vote for Avast antivirus (www.avast.com). Great program and free (for home use). Better than some pay programs.
Re:To be fair to Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)
Not so sure about that. There was a time when a full frame made of steel I-beams was the norm. I'd feel sorry for most of today's SUV's that hit this thing (assuming the frame wasn't rusted away).
OTOH, the driver of the Belaire would have been thrown out of the car unless they were "lucky" enough to get their head stuck through the steering wheel.
Point taken though.
Re: Slow computer! (Score:0, Insightful)
Re: Slow computer! (Score:5, Insightful)
Anybody whose data is worth less than their computer is just using it as a toy. Regaining access to your data is of far greater value than making the stupid hardware run. If it was one of my computers, I'd happily pay the $800 (or even $8000) to get my data back, and *then* I'd ditch the "ancient piece of crap machine" and buy a new one.
(Well, actually, I keep distributed backups to avoid this problem, and use almost exclusively ancient piece of crap hardware since the machines themselves are irrelevant. So if it were my computer, I'd probably just spend the $800 on women and beer.)
Re: Slow computer! (Score:3, Insightful)
So if you want to write spyware or viruses, make it efficient, and don't use too much computer resources. Nobody really minds running about a dozen rogue programmes on the PC if they don't prevent their browser and other Internet software from running. In reality, the thing that users don't like is adware, which replaces DNS or some other Internet services and prevents them from reaching their favourite Internet sites (even everywhere, that simply shows popups or replaces text on web pages with advertising is ok).
Whats retraining the user cost? (Score:3, Insightful)
Reinstalling the OS is also not always an option. Computers are much like people's homes in that they become heavily customized over time. Do you level your home and start over everytime the faucet leaks? Does everyone keep track of ALL of their registration keys? All of their passwords stored in cookies? All those tweaks to the interface and 3rd party products that do little things? All those funky drivers for oddball hardware from manufacturers no longer in business? From what I've seen hell NO they don't. Telling someone you have to trash their machine and that they have to reinstall from scratch will put many users in tears. I try VERY hard not to do it unless I absolutely have to. Besides, it's a challenge not to do it
I am now cleaning up machines just like the machines described several times a month. It takes me, on average, about 4-10 hours per machine and I'm pretty experienced at it too. Much of this time is spent kicking off automated programs, interpeting the output, and then cleaning out the crap. I have to do this with a second machine connected to the 'net just to research all of the TRASH I find on machines and sometimes to DL updates to USB fobs. There is even spyware out there that will disable virus scanners, disable Windows Update, and shut down many of the anti-spyware tools. It also doesn't help that these jerks have gone out and put up Web sites that look like they supply spyware cleaners that in reality install *drum roll* MORE SPYWARE! Some of this stuff even redirects searches for these products to bogus pages or to 404 errors. The scum of the Earth builds this stuff, how they actually make any money doing it is beyond me. The last machine I worked on had it's home page directed to an IP address that when visited actively ATTACKED the user's machine. It's tons of fun to finally get a machine back to working, hit MS Update, and find out that there are 35+ "critical" updates out there missed because a piece of crap turned off their update mechanism.
The folks getting hit with this are much like the article's author. They don't understand security, they run sub optimal machines, they refuse to update their AV products when they expire (MicroTrend's Housecall is a godsend as an initial check), and they let their kids download and install anything they want. When I get my hands on them they are fairly glowing chock full of nasty crap. I clean them and I don't charge but it sure as hell takes up alot of my time. I learn something just about each and every time though so I DO get something out of it...
Re: Slow computer! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hardware Firewall? (Score:2, Insightful)
So I don't recommend people get those unless they're going to do something about that kind of problem.
Re: Slow computer! (Score:1, Insightful)
if it works why get a faster hotter computer , and polute the enviroment more ?
unsafe at any security level (Score:3, Insightful)
Well done Phil this is spot on.
Back in the 60's the American car industry peddled out a similiar line of "product before safety" . The book [amazon.com], Unsafe at any speed [wikipedia.org] [Ralph Nader, 1965] ...
In the case of the Chev Corvairs even when parked. (you can read such stories from the reader testimonials at amazon [amazon.com]. Better still read the book [amazon.com] at your local library). As a result of the book and the following movement [fact-index.com], the mantra of "Engineering, Enforcement, Education". The legacy that is still applied to Engineering practice today [google.com].
It's a sad day for journalists (let alone Journo's from the Washington Post [think Woodward and Burnstein [wikipedia.org]]) that fail to understand Naders legacy and see it's relevence to todays computer software industry.
The lefty ratbag John Pilger's creed should be repeated here to see where this journalist has failed the Posts [washingtonpost.com] readers ....
Re:Email to Kathleen Day (Score:2, Insightful)
Wrong analogy. This is Ford with a faulty tension spring in the carburetor that has a potential to turn into an engine fire by allowing far too much fuel in. Then they issue a recall (a patch) which adjusts the spring, leaving it mostly broken, and losing a few screws here and there when they put it back together.
Historically Microsoft patches haven't fared very well.
but that does not logically imply that all technology/pc industry designs are flawed
Whoa there. This was never a point. The point was always about the insecurity of the software.
it just means the current popular consumer software is
Microsoft has, at every turn, wisely invested marketing dollars to minimize the perceived threat of having a just a faulty little spring that opened the valve a little too far. It probably won't make any difference in everyday usage. Sucks to be you if you're the guy whose engine blows up. Identity theft and harassment are very very real and it's not primarily by 14 year olds. It's done by people with too much time on their hands. Know anyone who doesn't need to work and can just lay around all day?
Re: Slow computer! (Score:2, Insightful)
He acted like a crooked mechanic, no better.