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Microsoft Windows: A Lower Total Cost of 0wnership 524

bahamutirc writes "Dave Aitel of Immunity, Inc. has written an excellent report detailing the lower Total Cost of 0wnership Microsoft Windows has over Linux. Dave takes a unique approach in comparing the two operating systems, and the results are not surprising. The paper was submitted to Bugtraq today and is available in PDF and Open Office."
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Microsoft Windows: A Lower Total Cost of 0wnership

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  • Nice (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Klar ( 522420 ) * <curchin@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:50PM (#9961611) Homepage Journal
    LOL, the O from Ownership is a zero how L337. You have been 0wned by microsoft.

    Honestly though, I love the graph in the article titled "Difficulty of owning Windows vs Difficulty to make this graph". When I saw that, I thought the article would be total Microsoft bashing, but hey, they ended up recomending to use Windows. I'd have to say that this true in the business world, almost everyone that I've talked to who uses a computer at work for word processing, etc is totally afraid of linux and think it is this scary beast. Until people can work with linux and not be afraid to try things, ms will win.
  • Heh :) (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Gilesx ( 525831 ) * on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:51PM (#9961629)
    Lol I love it! I didn't actually realise that it was Total Cost of '0'wnership ;)

    This is a very clever way of making a very valid point - I can forsee this report landing on a free IT purchaser's desks mixed in with all the "real" (or MS-funded) TCO reports, because it is so well designed.

    And my favorite quote? "As clearly demonstrated, other than the toy OS Mac OS X, Windows has the lowest TC0 on the market." I love it!

  • yhbt... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:53PM (#9961651)
    uh, the article is satirical...
  • Most Important (Score:2, Insightful)

    by superpulpsicle ( 533373 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:53PM (#9961660)
    Heh, you can't argue the fact that more people knows windows than linux. Just that alone should makes it easier to hire less administrators or cheaper admins.
  • Re:0wnership? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TopShelf ( 92521 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:57PM (#9961697) Homepage Journal
    Forget the (sic) part - the title of the document is indeed '0wnership'. This is a good case where those who don't RTFA will be totally off topic...
  • Re:Nice (Score:2, Insightful)

    by synthparadox ( 770735 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:58PM (#9961712) Homepage
    I'd have to say that this true in the business world, almost everyone that I've talked to who uses a computer at work for word processing, etc is totally afraid of linux and think it is this scary beast. Until people can work with linux and not be afraid to try things, ms will win.
    Also, its not just people thinking Linux is a scary beast, its the whole change of environment idea. People don't like changing because it takes time to get used to the changes. Because MS took control of the markets earlier, they have the advantage of familiarality (i think thats the word). Its the same idea behind why names are copyrighted, such as Pepsi, Disney, etc. If you're used to using products from a certain brand you're biased to buy their products.
  • by NoMoreNicksLeft ( 516230 ) <john.oyler@ c o m c a st.net> on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:58PM (#9961724) Journal
    Ignoring the few privilege elevation exploits we've seen over the years, why in the world would anyone install an untrustworthy program as root?

    Seriously, of all the ways my modest little linux server has been nailed over the years, it's never been the installation of software itself.

    Some heavy-duty software insists on root installation, but this is only ever well-known stuff for which md5s are available.

    I agree, what a dumbass.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:59PM (#9961737)
    The article contains a graph "Difficulty of owning Windows vs difficulty to make this graph" on page 3. I think it is safe to assume the whole thing is just a bad joke which the editors at slashdot seem to have fallen for.
  • Re:Flamebait?? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by shish ( 588640 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:00PM (#9961746) Homepage
    We should be able to mod news stories as flamebait.

    And we should be able to mod posters as "Didn't RTFA" / "RTFA, but didn't get that it was a joke"...

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:03PM (#9961775)
    Why has he supported Microsoft in his statements and abandoned them in the delivery mechanism? We can access them in a PDF (Adobe) or an Open Office document. Where's the MS Word version? How ironic.

    Not really. He knows that if his document gets posted to a anti-MS site such as Slashdot, and if the people see versions of the document that are in MS format, they will immediately dismiss his article as FUD - regardless of what other versions might be available.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:04PM (#9961788)
    I try to read on in his document but I keep coming to "0wned" and I realize that I am not dealing with a professional. I suppose his intended audience (Bugtraq) might be familiar with how 31337 he is but I just can't believe he would bother to spend the time writing up a "paper" with those stupid misspellings.

    Wow... you just don't get it, do you? :-P

    Can someone tell me why the heck this was modded insightful? More like -1: Don't Get It.
  • Re:Heh :) (Score:3, Insightful)

    by NoMoreNicksLeft ( 516230 ) <john.oyler@ c o m c a st.net> on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:06PM (#9961828) Journal
    Toy? Mac OSX is arguably more ready for the corporate world than linux, and it's not that I don't think linux is ready.

    OSX has M$ Office, for the pointy-haired types that insist on it. It has a better browser (Safari) and a decent enough email client (though I believe outlook is also available). It is as solid as a rock. Working with literally hundreds of OSX machines, I've only ever seen crashes that were the result of bad hardware. Even the software glitches turned out (99.8% of the time) to be HD's dying an early death.

    OSX is the most polished (more than explorer, or anything else) desktop software, has all the important software, and even games, for crying out loud. I don't think I even dare reading this stupid thing, lest I barf on the desk here.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:06PM (#9961830)
    Dave Attell has a great job. I wish I could go around the country - or even other countries at times - doing stand-up (which isn't that easy) and then strolling around town, getting drunk and partying afterwards. What a lucky man.
  • by fmachado ( 89905 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:09PM (#9961865)
    Come on people, are we so paranoid that we cannot understand a parody anymore? Don't get so serious, it was one of the most fun thing I've read in a long time. And we get angry when they call us "zealots". Our advantage over the rest is that we are FREE to mock up ourselves (and mock with others, for sure) and this "paper" was amazingly competent in doing that.

    Good job! I do expect people realize it's unique "point of view".
  • Re:Astroturf (Score:4, Insightful)

    by the_mad_poster ( 640772 ) <shattoc@adelphia.com> on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:10PM (#9961884) Homepage Journal

    Well, considering this is a fairly humorous joke, you still haven't.

  • by garcia ( 6573 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:13PM (#9961917)
    Yeah, and the post was a joke (as some people have so kindly noticed). Sadly most people are too clueless to see the humor.
  • Re:Nice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TXG1112 ( 456055 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:14PM (#9961941) Homepage Journal
    You seem to have missed the joke....

    FTFA:

    Summary

    Immunity's findings clearly show that the best platform for your targets to be running is Microsoft Windows, allowing you unparalleled value for their dollar. This result reinforces the fact that its important to consider more than just licensing fees when your targets choose their OS. Indeed, a variety of factors go into their choice, and over time, Windows has demonstrated itself to be the top contender in the, in both the server and the desktop space for Total Cost of 0wnership.

    (Emphasis mine)

  • by Chasuk ( 62477 ) <chasuk@gmail.com> on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:19PM (#9962012)
    I've worked IT for over two decades, and only the young'uns use "l33t speak," and even then it is only when they are feeling playful.

    I tend not to underestimate someone for the phrases they use.

    I try not to underestimate anyone, but I do use the words that come out of their mouths to gauge them. If they sound like cretins, they usually are, which isn't a dangerous thing to know, but a useful one.
  • Re:Most Important (Score:1, Insightful)

    by dasmegabyte ( 267018 ) <das@OHNOWHATSTHISdasmegabyte.org> on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:26PM (#9962077) Homepage Journal
    A few rebuttals to this:

    Because there are so many jobs available for Windows admins, more people who are not skilled are operating as Windows admins. This increases the possibility that a new, cheap hire is an idiot, which could cost more than just his salary.

    Furthermore, with Linux it is more likely you do not need a dedicated administrator in the first place, because the operating system is more stable when exposed to a wild environment. You may be able to outsource your entire IT department to a competent local admin, pay him twice the hourly for a quarter as much work and save half as much.

    This isn't to say Linux is better than Windows. It isn't. And Windows isn't better than Linux, either. You can't make statements like this without ignoring WHY we use operating systems in the first place (to abstract connectivity and device management from the software layer). If you have even one essential program that does not have a viable Linux analogue, the cost of Linux is incomparably high. On the other hand, if you're buying a new Server OS every 5-7 years to avoid exploits for IIS and you're only using the web server and SMTP server...you're throwing away $3000.

    Anybody who tells you "X is better than Y" from a purely subjective stance is probably best ignored. Best tool, man, best tool.
  • Re:Errrrrmmmm... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:30PM (#9962121)
    I wasn't particularly impressed. First it was the glamor shots of the employees, then the pie chart and the 0 in ownership. I guess I'm starting to get old when I expected to see something marginally professional from people have their own Incorporated entity.

    Oh, I do so agree. It's like the Onion - how can they expect to be taken seriously as a newspaper when all their articles are so poorly researched? I mean, it reads like they make it all up or something!
  • by syrinje ( 781614 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:34PM (#9962163)
    Such a laudable attempt at a parodic post.
    So tragic that the partial l337 mis-spell ruined it.

    I can see the author mentally doing "lines"...
    I must spell it 0wn3d I must spell it 0wn3d .....

  • by joeldg ( 518249 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:38PM (#9962214) Homepage
    I would have to say..
    The reason these guys are not getting the joke is that about 85% of /. is actually windows users.

    They might have been able to get the joke if they had not been busy installing service packs, fending off viruses and email trojans, having their browser constantly puking popups and getting hijacked, dealing with network popup spam and the million other things that bother them on a daily basis before it bluescreens and they shut it down out of frustration at the end of the day.

    So, I enjoy sitting here watching the Mac and windows guys (both of whom didn't understand the joke it seems) posting away about not understanding it, or trying to defend that macos as toy comment. (which we used to call macs "beige toasters" on usenet.. that was a popular flame war that went on for years.)

    back to work I guess..
  • by LordPixie ( 780943 ) * on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:45PM (#9962302) Journal
    ...while still taking the report seriously ? Holy crap, this entire discussion has got to be the saddest thing I've ever seen.

    Talk about FUD ! I see people ranting about how biased TCO studies are when they haven't even read the fucking article. Jesus Christ. Microsoft may fund piece of shit studies, but at least that includes some studying. That ranks slightly better than complete knee-jerk reactionary /. comments. God damnit.


    --LordPixie

    p.s. Pseudo-Apologies for picking on the parent post. He was definitely not the only offender.
  • Re:Most Important (Score:2, Insightful)

    by archen ( 447353 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:51PM (#9962378)
    Because there are so many jobs available for Windows admins, more people who are not skilled are operating as Windows admins.

    I'm not sure I agree with that. I'm the only IT guy where I work. We have Windows,Linux and some BSD here. I'll agree that it is easier to find compitent Linux people but why?

    Part of it is because of the "MS Money train". You have to pay to get certified. Probably pay for books for useful documentation. Probably pay for windows just to mess with what they ALLOW you to mess with. Topple onto that the fact that in many aspects, Windows is just far too complex for it's own good.

    I'm not all that smart, but I find I can learn problems with Linux and fix them. I can generally troubleshoot problems because of easily available free documentation, and giving you the TOOLS to troubleshoot. And Linux is just more comprehendable in how many parts interact. I'm not sure many of those Windows admins are all that stupid, it's just that it doesn't justify itself by spending years studying the guts of MS internals with a million books on the subject when 90% of the time you just point/click/drool anyway.
  • by LordPixie ( 780943 ) * on Friday August 13, 2004 @04:06PM (#9962557) Journal
    This is clearly an attempt at SATIRE. It's supposed to use lame script kiddie speak. The article has its tongue planted so firmly in its cheek, half the Slashdotters missed it completely.

    Go back and read the article again. Slowly. Run off the assumption that it is not serious. Apply a bit of reading comprehension and critical thinking. For the love of god...


    --LordPixie
  • by tylersoze ( 789256 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @04:13PM (#9962632)
    Yeah, but in this case a compromise had to be made and only change the O in order to fool more people into misinterpreting the meaning, thus enhancing the joke overall. :)
  • by thephotoman ( 791574 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @04:34PM (#9962902) Journal
    However, seeing it in .swx and .pdf makes us realize that he's talking about the total cost of overrunning a system, not the total cost of maintaining a system. It makes us Slashdotters actually RTFA. And if you haven't, you definitely should. It's hillarious. Though, I would have called it the Total Cost of Pwnzrship myself.

    My, how humor is lost on some people.
  • Re:Heh :) (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 13, 2004 @05:01PM (#9963160)
    It's clearly a tr0ll. an unwarranted cheap shot at Mac users, who even though they now run on enterprise quality hardware and software, still have inherited the attitudinal legacy of computer people who mocked a computer that was so easy to use, even graphic designers could use it. Then again, it might have been a facetious mention of it, since earlier in the article they talk about how the real tech community is evenly split between Linux and Mac OS X.
  • Re:Most Important (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Bull999999 ( 652264 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @05:10PM (#9963248) Journal
    For me, I use the same method for getting information on Windows and Linux. For example, if I need some info on Windows, I first check the help files, then the MS Knowledge Base, and then resort to a gooogle research if I don't get a satisfactory answer. For Linux, I first check the man pages and README files, then the usual how-to sites, and then move on to the google search.

    I grew up using Windows so it's natural that I'm more proficient with Windows than Linux and thus, Linux skills have some major catching up to do. I'm currently at a point where I'm comfortable using Slackware (one of more difficult Linux distro to use, especially for someone who's used to doing everything via GUI way) as a workstation.

    You really can't learn anything by giving up when you hit a wall. Whatever problem you may have, there are many others who have experienced the same problem and came up with a solution for it. For example, I learned that you can indeed use the 5-button + wheel MS IntelliMouse Explorer and have all of those buttons work on Slackware. It wasn't quite easy as plug and play but after some vigilant searching, I found a solution for it.

    Besides, it never hurts to be proficient with multiple OSes.
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @06:08PM (#9963713)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Re:Nice (Score:2, Insightful)

    by d0rkmunder ( 805365 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @07:25PM (#9964231)
    not to mention the very nice graphic to start the ball rolling. "Cost of 0wning Windows vs Cost of Making This Graph" or something like that. Even if a person isn't hip to 0wning etc, that certainly should raise an eyebrow. Sheesh
  • Re:Astroturf? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ccalvert ( 126669 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @11:17PM (#9965317) Homepage
    People forget that writing is a form of thought. In a sense, it even reflects the soul of the person who writes.

    The beauty of a satire like this is that it exposes not just the absurdity of the text being parodied, but the spiritual depravity that made such texts posssible. It shows the texture and opagueness of the shutters that have been drawn over the souls of people who actually believe that such writing can possibly have meaning.

    On a more practical note, the primary means that such people employ when constructing their deceptive texts is to make up non-sensical nouns or noun phrases and then treat them as if they had meaning. For instance, this satire contains the following sentence fragment: "These three things, Vulnerability Detection, Exploit Development, and Attack Execution, were used by Immunity to determine the costs to 0wn the different operating systems." As technical people, we read sentences like this all the time. Generally, such sentences mean absolutely nothing. We repeat phrases like "Attack Execution," too embarrassed and too confused to admit even to ourselves that we have no idea of what they mean, or even if they are capable of meaning. These are entirely exploitative sentences and phrases, and have no substance whatsoever beyond what we endow them with by virtue of our blindness and fear.

    Here, of course, the phrases are designed to have a meaning opposite to their apparent value. In other words, they are means of describing not legitimate forms of software analysis, but security exploits. Yet the fact that the parody has a level of meaning generally missing from the text being parodies is just part of the joke.

    As a form of thought, the texts being parodied here are primarily viral. They infect not just the reader, but the writer, and ultimately, an entire society.
  • Buzz words (Score:2, Insightful)

    by JudeanPeople'sFront ( 729601 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @04:14AM (#9966172)

    George Orwell said it best in his Politics and the English Language essay. You can find it on Project Guttenberg and other sites, here is the Australian link : http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200151.txt [gutenberg.net.au]

    Personally, when I see such buzz-word-infested langiage, I imagine an avalanche sliding down the mountain valley, long stripped of vegetation to stop it. That is the purpose of such a language - to get you in a programmed channel of thought.

BLISS is ignorance.

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