Firmware Upgrades For Everything 285
eggoeater writes "Forbes Magazine has an article discussing how more portable electronics are not only suggesting firmware upgrades, but requiring them in order to get all the features! Apparently the new Lyra A/V Jukebox will sometimes display a message stating that 'this feature will be available in future upgrades.' In addition, the article states that some patches are difficult and dangerous depending on the component. Some cell phone patches require a proprietary cable ($25) that will then wipe out your phone book. This raises concerns over alienating users that aren't tech-savvy and how this could affect perceptions of portable electronics as a whole."
Wow (Score:1, Interesting)
You know what? (Score:5, Interesting)
Even mobo manufactures say to upgrade only if the update fixes a specific problem you are having.
Kinda sad, really... (Score:5, Interesting)
Router (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Dude, where's my shares? (Score:3, Interesting)
1) Announce Product with features X, Y and Z
2) Ship Product with feature X
3) ???
4) Go bankrupt.
About the only industry where people have tolerated the missing Step 3 ("Make people pay, then pay again for the features they wanted in the first place") is MMORPGs. I don't think it's going to work with hardware.
As an engineer in the electronics industry... (Score:5, Interesting)
It sucks, but that's the way it is. Your product is either first, or it needs to be 10 times better than the other guy's product.
Alienating Users? (Score:3, Interesting)
Class action suit, anyone? (Score:2, Interesting)
Missing step 3... (Score:5, Interesting)
Hopefully that staves off 4 for a while.
Worked for TiVo, sort of.
Re:I see a business emerging! (Score:5, Interesting)
I take it you decided to get into technology during the bubble.
I, and many people I know, would be very happy if technology was easier to use for the average user.
Research it. (Score:5, Interesting)
None of us are forced into these purchases, with the exception of gift items. And if you recieved a techie gift, do the research before opening the package-you can stil return it, and I just recently found myself wishing I had when I recieved an mp3 player for christmas.
Guffaws aside, companies should theoretically respect users more when people refuse to buy badly implemented products.
Re:release now, patch later... (Score:2, Interesting)
Further marketshare gains for Microsoft? (Score:5, Interesting)
Soon a new microwave oven will require Windows and an Internet connection. ARGH!
Are there any OSS projects or standards creation efforts for universal, OS-independent, product firmware updaters?
lovely. (Score:1, Interesting)
Alien Nation of Non-Tech Savvy Users (Score:5, Interesting)
Now I've found my telescope (Meade ETX-125AC) Autostar computer can be upgraded, but with a special cable for my purchasing pleasure. Hm.
Re:Sounds like extortion to me.... (Score:3, Interesting)
That's probably one of the reasons why companies like Nokia and SonyEricsson release their phones in Asia and Europe before the US.
This should be illegal! (Score:5, Interesting)
Firmware Updater Service (Score:5, Interesting)
What if there were some kind of a standardized firmware upgrade protocol (kind of like the windows automatic updater service-thingy) that kept track of your devices, notified you when updates were available, and flashed the updates for you?
End user no longer has to be very savvy, but rather just has to have the firmware updater software installed. Updater reaches out to product web services (provided by manufacturers) for each product it is aware of, and checks for updates, and downloads 'em.
Network devices (such as wireless routers) could find their own manufacturer, and update themselves (or not, of course, depending on user prefs)
Re:Crap (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly. When the first Creative Jukeboxes came out, before the iPod, a big selling point was that they were firmware upgradeable. Right on the box it promised that they would update it to play "all future digital music formats" but it still only plays MP3 and WMA files. If you ask them when they are coding firmware to play Ogg Vorbis files they say "We do not support other music formats." If you point out they promised to support all future formats, they say "I already said, we do not support other formats" and then stop responding.
I'll never buy a Creative product again, because they lied about their features in order to sell them.
Nokia did it to me (Score:4, Interesting)
After searching newsgroups and web sites, I came to find out that it's a somewhat common problem that may or may not be fixed with a firmware upgrade. I decided that I'd like to give it a try and prepared to backup my phone only to find that I couldn't get the upgrade anywhere on my own. A check on Nokia's site shows that I can either send it in to them at my own expense or call them and try to use a local authorized dealer. Not wanting to lose the phone for 10 days and pay shipping, I called and got two locations here in Austin. I called the first who informed me that they had the firmware, but didn't have the special cable required. The second told me flatly that they couldn't do it.
So, why are these two places listed with Nokia if they won't perform the service and what the hell is the deal with needing a special cable? Why can't I just transfer the firmware upgrade to my phone via IR or bluetooth, run it and have it restart and apply the upgrade?
After all this, I've decided to live with the problem. Not very satisfying at all.
Re:Alienating Users? (Score:5, Interesting)
I especially enjoy the sales verbage..."The importance of PDAs is growing every day and it is quite likely that these devices will soon become a target for new virus attacks." In other words, "there's currently nothing for the this product to do, but if it ever does become worthwhile, it'll do it after you download something else." Begs the question: why not wait until it becomes an issue, THEN download it? Seems you'd save some money that way, eh?
Oh, and the cost? $20 for a year of nothing. Tell you what, guys...if you're in the market for PDA antivirus protection, I'll beat that price. I'll do nothing for only $10 a year.
Re:firm or soft? (Score:2, Interesting)
This allows binding agreements, and more (Score:4, Interesting)
If you buy something at a store in cash, the can put those 'by opening this you agree' contracts on them, but those don't mean much and they still can't identify you.
By making you get an update they can collect information on you, which has dollar value, and more importantly, get you to click and EULA on the firmware which extends to other things as well as saying that it can be ammended at any time and remain binding.
This is creeping into everything. I just sent away for my credit reports today. If you get your credit report from a credit agency through the web, they make you click an agreement which covers all sorts of things in addition to making you waive certain rights under the FCRA in some cases, as well as asking for all sorts of information in order to give it to you which is not required. If you send for it by mail, you only have to give the information required by law and you waive no rights.
If you make enough noise, you can probably get them to send you the update in the mail, but you still must identify yourself to them and the effort is not worth it.
The article doesn't mention it, but it's not about time to market, or cutting corners or anything. They want to 1) identify the customer 2) get them to enter into some sort of agreement.
Having no firmware upgrades... (Score:3, Interesting)
The main type of devices I am unpleased about are the mainstream DVD-players. Lack of features, wrongly implemented features, plain old hangups.... Who ever invented a DVD-player that can't do MP3 in random order ? Why should I want to see a JPEG building up on the screen while you could double-buffer it ?
Sure, sometimes it's just lack of hardware support. But it's also just lazyness I guess.
I have a Yamada DV-6000 now (divx-capable), which has regular firmware updates. Simply burn a CD-Rom and stuff it in the drive. If you are careful (and don't go updating your drive in the middle of a lightning storm or anything) you will gain more functionality for the same price. Easy as that.
Big companies still have this lesson to learn.
As a longtime consumer of electronics/computers... (Score:5, Interesting)
rather sell you this years model... Are you sure that new DRM standards aren't going to cripple the possibility of that future accessory upgrade you were promised?
Hiptop (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Dude, where's my shares? (Score:5, Interesting)
Shipping vapor with promises is the best way to make profits in the long term. People have short memories. At least enough of them do. The ones who don't ship until they have all the features they promised will suffer in the marketplace against those who ship with vapor, and the fact that there's a handful of discriminating consumers out there won't change that.
The answer, then, is sensible regulation, so that even those corporations who would act ethically do not work under a competitive disadvantage against the others. One of these sensible regulations would be insisting that any manufacturer that ships a product with extensible functionality, when that functionality is not yet available, be committed to providing that functionality for free *if the product was marketed with that extensible functionality as a differentiator*. No more bait and switch.
It's why we have regulation in, for example, the food industry - we don't want a situation where producers are "playing chicken" with standards in order to reduce costs. Consumers could very well drive down the quality of food that way by being too willing to take risks in order to save money: I'd rather the law of supply and demand *not* work so well in that case.
Re:You know what? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Dude, where's my shares? (Score:4, Interesting)
There's also the issue of how to send a corporation to prison. Jail all the employees? (Is the front-desk receptionist responsible for a product defect?) Or just those responsible? (Of course, every product has an engineering team, etc. etc.) If we're punishing a corporation for an incomplete product, how do we define "incomplete"?
Yes, the ignorant masses are being duped by the marketing dollars of large corporations. This has happened throughout history (ask any woman if Victoria's Secret underwear is actually comfortable), and it's not likely to stop.
I've got to admit that I'm a bit awed at the sheer volume of ire aroused about firmware upgrades. Aren't there better things to be angry about?
-- Hamster
Re:Dude, where's my shares? (Score:2, Interesting)
Computer's are like cars. (Score:2, Interesting)
Always dreaded firmware upgrades (Score:5, Interesting)
- Always make the original firmware / bios available. Keep in in some form of ROM if possible.
- Always permit a fallback to the original firmware / bios (because the original should be available, as noted above). You almost need a pin or switch to do it, similar to the dip switch on some motherboards which restored default settings. Ideally, it would be nice to see a firmware loader in ROM, which could then manage and select among different firmware versions on a device, accessed through some key sequence, available for a second or two on power-up.
- No extra tools or hardware should be required. I don't even have a floppy drive hooked up anymore.
- No special operating system should be required (Windows-only firmware upgrades, anyone?). For firmware upgrades to be robust enough to make me feel all warm and fuzzy, all that should matter is getting the new firmware file into the device, over an industry-standard protocol, and you then automatically load the new firmware the next time you boot (including a check for corruption in the firmware upgrade file).
- User data and settings should be maintained through the upgrades. If new settings are available / old options are removed, then it is the manufacturers job to avoid screwing things up, not the device owners job to reset / reload everything.
Oughta cover it. In a perfect world.Criminal Act? (Score:3, Interesting)
However, advertising that a product does X Y and Z, when it only does X is a form of what we call "Fraud" specifically "False Advertising" that *is* a crime [state.mo.us] most places.
I do however agree that companies get blamed more than they should because more often than not problems people have with products are from assumptions they've made about the product without investigating to see if their assumptions prove true.
Re:Dude, where's my shares? (Score:1, Interesting)
Personally, I'm more concerned with everything being `fixable'. At least in the olden days when you bought _hardware_ it was assumed to be `bug-free', but the more firmware upgradable hardware I see, the more of it seems to have stupid bugs.
Re:Sounds like extortion to me.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Reece,