Facebook Wins $873 Million Lawsuit Against Spammer

damn_registrars writes "A US District judge has awarded $873 million dollars to Facebook in a default judgment against a spammer who sent messages to Facebook users about drugs and sex. This is the highest award so far in a civil suit under the CAN-SPAM Act."

It's too much to discourage anyone.

The Palo Alto, Calif.-based company predicted the judgment will be difficult to collect, but is hoping that its size discourages future abuses at its site.

Except it won't. It's too much. Basic psychology dictates that once you get above a certain risk people will start to ignore it because there's no difference between that and "everything". For people who don't have a great deal to start with losing everything isn't that big a deal. An amount that's a real tangible quantity that someone could conceivably earn is actually a bigger discouragement because people can imagine losing it, and that will put them off because if they can imagine themselves earning it they can envisage themselves losing it.

I'm not suggesting that it should have been any lower of course. I just think we need to be pragmatic about what a punishment is. If we want it to be something that puts other people off doing the same thing then we could think up something better.

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

In the business world, it's simple. Shut down the corporation, and start another. It's too big to even consider paying, so the company that is being sued will just fold. That's why bars don't get insurance, generally: it's too expensive, and if something goes wrong, it's too expensive to deal with, so the bar's corporation just goes away, and it will generally re-launch under "new ownership". Happens every day.

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

TFA specifically stated that the suit was filed "against Adam Guerbuez of Montreal and his business." Not having read the actual case file, I'm just going to assume that Facebook did file a suit against both Guerbuez AND his business. In such a case, I don't know if he can just hide behind his corporation (if it is incorporated).

IIRC, in Canada, if you are ordered to pay damages, the court order is permanent until you manage to pay it off or you die. The order survives through bankruptcy, so you can't just declare and have it magically wiped away. Does anyone know whether the U.S. has a similar system?

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

In the United States, the effect of a bankruptcy discharge is to eliminate only the debtor's personal liability and not the in rem liability for a secured debt to the extent of the value of collateral (i.e. they can generally seize personal property pledged as collateral for debts subject to a few exceptions such as one's primary residence and retirement accounts which cannot be seized). Certain taxes owed to the Federal, state, or local governments, government guaranteed student loans, and child support obligations cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. However, from what I understand (IANAL) depending upon the filling, Chapter 11 or Chapter 7 (which is much harder to file now because of recent revisions to US bankruptcy law sponsored by credit card companies), any unsecured personal debts, except those described above, are discharged and secured creditors get the collateral that was pledged and that debt is discharged. Court judgments, with the exception of child support payments which are a special case, are by definition unsecured debts and so they probably would be discharged in a Chapter 7 (or possibly even a Chapter 11, subject to partial payment) bankruptcy, but again IANAL and courts sometimes legally define things in ways that are different from the rest of society.

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

You, Sir, are now my official in rem collateral discharged child support super-hero!
Oh and IANAL but I don't belive that YANAL.

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

Holy shit, my brain.

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

I hate spammers. I think the punishment should be really cruel...hang on my lawyers telling me something....really? Fine. Well then it should at least be something really unusual. That will stop these spam...wait...what? DAMMIT!

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

i found a loophole! the constitution only prohibits "cruel and unusual punishment." therefore, if you call it a prize/reward instead of a punishment, then you can make it as cruel and unusual as you want! right?

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Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

You know, I reckon it would have been much much better to shut the company down (yes the millions of dollars damages will shut it down and facebook might get a few grand out of it) but I say put the spammers into jail for a bit. Not over the top, but say six months?

Closing a company and starting it over in a new name isn't a deterrent. It's a business plan these guys have. Put the owner in the nick for a few months, and I bet he starts chirping a different tune.

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

So you suggest..what? String 'em up?

You damn liberals always want to be nice to the bad guys!!

I suggest we slice out their innards and then string 'em up!

This is one of those "statement awards"

but from what I've seen, they get overturned, brought down to a reasonable level, or end upo being way more than the person can afford... which actually doesnt send a very good statement at all.

On the other hand... screw it, take his kidney.

Re:This is one of those "statement awards"

On the other hand... screw it, take his kidney.

If they use an anesthetic, it's not really cruel, is it?

Re:This is one of those "statement awards"

If he's into sex and drugs, his kidney is probably not very valuable. If only he had stuck with rock-and-roll...

Should we celebrate? The same as Spamhaus?

This appears to be a default judgment against a non-US entity. Is this so much different from the much-derided judgment against Spamhaus?

I suppose we know how to fill in #2

1) Start spamable website
2) ???
3) Profit

Re:I suppose we know how to fill in #2

Yeah apparently the ??? has always stood for "Sue".

"said Facebook"

I am not sure why, but I find it comical that "Facebook" said something... although it would have been funnier had it said "blah blah blah," posted Facebook on the Associated Press's wall.

But does it come in the shade of ridiculous

Well just because TFA is just that short, here it is in new bold action:

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) â" Facebook has won a $873 million judgment against a Canadian man who bombarded users with millions of unsolicited messages about drugs and sex.
U.S. District Judge Jeremy Fogel signed the default judgment Friday, resolving a lawsuit that Facebook filed in August against Adam Guerbuez of Montreal and his business, Atlantis Blue Capital.
Facebook alleged that Guerbuez had fooled users into revealing their passwords so he could send out more than 4 million messages that included promotions for marijuana. Guerbuez could not be located for comment.
The Palo Alto, Calif.-based company predicted the judgment will be difficult to collect, but is hoping that its size discourages future abuses at its site.

So the standard cost of a foreigner sending me spam is ~$200 per message if they don't show up to court?

Also Facebook, please don't file lawsuits that you don't expect to have any direct impact. The courts are busy enough without you.

Judgment Not Worth the Paper It's Printed On

This is a default judgment against a foreign entity which undoubtedly is nothing more than an empty shell corporation with no assets. There is a reason they didn't bother to come and defend this action - the judgment is uncollectable. Talk about your pyrrhic victories.

Re:Judgment Not Worth the Paper It's Printed On

> This is a default judgment against a foreign entity which undoubtedly is nothing more
> than an empty shell corporation with no assets.

The judgement was awarded against the spammer personally as well as against his "company" which FaceBook's lawyers say is fictitious.

> There is a reason they didn't bother to come and defend this action - the judgment is
> uncollectable.

FaceBook's lawyers say otherwise. They say they know who he is, where he is, that he has substantial assets, and that they intend to take those assets.

Enfoecement

Now if Facebook will just forward their bank account information to Nigeria I'm sure the spammer will send them the money plus a large fee

Coincidence?

awarded $873 million dollars to Facebook

In a strange coincidence, the odds of Facebook collecting any money from the spammer are also 873-million to one.

Who gets the money?

Hypothetically, if the $837M judgment could be collected, who would receive it, Facebook or the users who were spammed? (I only ask in an attempt to be less cynical.) I mean, sure, Facebook might have lost a few users due to the spam, and there in had a reduction in the subsequent ad revenue, but $837M worth? It seems to me they're being rewarded for allowing someone to exploit their system...

Re:Wow

Roll over and take it, eh facebook users?

Yep, and take photos of it.

And then post those photos.

And tag the participants.

And set up a group for Rollers-over-and-Takers-of-It.

Re:Irony?

Since you added them as friends, and can control what you see from each user, it's not really "Spam", is it?

Your half-hearted attempt to be a cool hater is recognized, but ultimately fails.