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BBC Profiles Extradited Cracker Gary McKinnon
Posted by
timothy
on Fri Aug 29, 2008 03:11 AM
from the well-he-is-pale dept.
from the well-he-is-pale dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The BBC has published a very good profile of Gary McKinnon. It discusses his motives and methods as well as raising the question as to whether he is a malicious 'hacker' or whether he was simply obsessed with finding info about UFOs and should be praised for finding security faults in what should be extremely secure systems. This should provided stimulus for some interesting discussion on Slashdot especially between us Brits and our American friends following the confirmation of his extradition to the USA."
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Firehose:Gary McKinnon Extradition - is he bad or good by Anonymous Coward
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Should he be praised (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Should he be praised (Score:5, Interesting)
Governments and quite some companies disagree.
Parent
Re:Should he be praised (Score:5, Insightful)
There is also a huge difference between the intent and the application of the extradition treaty between the UK and the US - AFAIK the US still hasn't ratified that treaty, so it's fine for US courts to extradite British citizens, but not vice-versa.
The intent of the extradition treaty was to deal with serious organised crime and terrorism cases.
McKinnon comes under neither heading, nor did the NatWest employees extradited for shenanigans over Enron.
Britain should drop this treaty immediately, and refuse any extradition request other than for terrorist crimes.
Please, America, take Abu Hamza and his friends, but a guy that has Aspergers, believes in UFOs?
He's our eccentric, so if he's due a trial we'll do it here.
Parent
Re:Should he be praised (Score:5, Insightful)
Even at that, they'd just mention he "hacked" military computers and that is terrorism. Nearly everything is these days.
Parent
Re:Should he be praised (Score:5, Insightful)
Everything is terrrrrism if it gives our governments an excuse for doing something that would otherwise be considered unthinkable.
Parent
Re:Should he be praised (Score:5, Informative)
If you read the linked-to article (the last one), you'll see this:
They're already threatening to treat it as terrorism.
Parent
Re:Should he be praised (Score:5, Insightful)
Especially terrorists should not be extradited to the US, because the US has a record of grave human rights violations against suspected terrorists and has been convicted of torturing prisoners.
Parent
Re:Should he be praised (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Should he be praised (Score:5, Informative)
The treaty is contained in this act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_Act_2003
The UK has handed over terorists, hackers and fraudsters, yet the US is yet to do the same, Even with known PIRA terrorists.
Parent
Re:Should he be praised (Score:5, Insightful)
But they're not terrorists, they're just good citizens fighting the oppressors. Oh, hang on, that's what all the other ones say they are too. Hmm...
Parent
BBC Confirms It (Score:5, Insightful)
The UK, as a seperate entity from the US, no longer exists.
If US laws can be enforced on British soil, but not vice-versa, then the UK is a defacto part of the US. But here's the clinching shit in your mouth: with no representation. What's the point of a government, if the laws they pass mean nothing?
Re:BBC Confirms It (Score:5, Interesting)
It would be part of the US if laws could be enforced mutually. Being unilateral, it means nothing less than being a colony. When your laws trump local laws without the ones being overruled having any way to appeal, it fits quite neatly.
Isn't that ironic?
Parent
Re:BBC Confirms It (Score:5, Insightful)
You would think so, wouldn't you? Apparently American citizens have something called 'rights', which means they cannot be extradited without the evidence against them being put before an American court. So Congress have not ratified the treaty. It only goes one way: we bend over, and get no reach-around.
Parent
The BBC confirms it : (Score:5, Funny)
Nobody intimidates the US government..
Our TWO main powers are extradition, rendition and prohibition.
Parent
Re:BBC Confirms It (Score:5, Informative)
This gets discussed [slashdot.org] every time this story comes up: no it doesn't go both ways. The UK has asked for the extradition of people from the US on charges of murder and have been refused. When it's the other way around, but is just some nutter that guessed the Pentagon's admin passwords were password or some stupidity, the Brit is passed straight over. Also the actual treaty itself is one-sided [slashdot.org]: the US doesn't have to provide proof to have someone extradited, but the UK does. The treaty is not constitutional in either country.
Am assuming this is a rhetorical question. Anyway, I don't have anything the average American, it's just the UK and US governments actions make my blood boil, as a Slashdot reader I can see I'm not alone. :)
Parent
A disgrace (Score:5, Insightful)
Gary McKinnon was foolish. Yet he now faces up to 70 years in jail.
What angers me even more than the absurd penalties threatened by the US courts? The supine, wimpering acquiesence of the UK governmnt who will extradite one of its own citizens without evidence being required, yet demands no such reciprocal agreement with the US.
Mr McKinnon should burn his British passport and go away from the UK to some country which still cares for its citizens.
Re:A disgrace (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
``or [...] should be praised for finding security faults in what should be extremely secure systems.''
That one is really easy. Finding said security flaws is an accomplishment, but that isn't the issue here. The issue is what you do once you find them. You get praise for actions that lead to improved security (reporting them to the vendor, fixing them, reporting them to users, etc.). You get condemnation for exploiting them for selfish goals. Same as always: do something for the common good? Praise on you. Screw someone over for your own advantage? Damnation on you.
Too large to download? (Score:5, Insightful)
From TFA:
As for his quest to find evidence of a UFO cover-up, Mr McKinnon has said that he found some circumstantial evidence online to back his claims, including what he said are photos with what he speculated were alien spacecraft airbrushed out of the picture. He said the photos in question were too large to download to his own computer.
So he somehow managed to SEE the photos (without any alien spacecraft on them, BTW), but wasn't able to download them? Am I the only one to whom this doesn't make sense?
Blame Blair! (Score:5, Interesting)
Unfortunately, our former PM, the worlds worst negotiator, Tony Blair went and signed a bilateral extradition treaty with the US (the one which removes the burden of providing any evidence before extraditing) When the US refused to sign their copy of the treaty he just let it ride.
Thanks Tony, bang up job.
Re:Speaking of crackers... (Score:5, Interesting)
Nobody really gives a shit (I didn't really even read the above post), I just find it kind of curious.
Are you the same dude that posts to EVERY article, or is there a whole "underground movement"?
Parent
I propose... (Score:5, Funny)
That the term "hacker" be henceforth replaced by the term "fucker".
Yes, it may still lead to unforeseen consequences for the fucker when laymen (and women) star using the term without proper understanding of it, but isn't that exactly what the fucker community really needs?
Parent
Re:I propose... (Score:5, Funny)
Screw black/white/gray, I like it!
Parent
Re:Crackers, Hackers, and Slackers (Score:5, Insightful)
How about we give it up already and just forego the use of the term hacker meaning good computer nerd?
I've been arguing that for years, especially as in my experience in the UK, a hack most certainly is not a clever piece of code; the image presented is of someone making a mess of it, much like hacking through the undergrowth with a machete.
Besides which, you should attempt to target your language at the intended audience, and on a site like BBC News that most certainly is not the 5% of the population who know about the other use of the word.
Parent
Re:He stole brains? Over the interweb? (Score:5, Funny)
So what you're saying is...
Zombie cracker attacks US, in a post 9-11 world!
If that's not fear-inducing, I don't know what is.
Parent