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Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

Posted by Zonk on Thu Apr 03, 2008 04:11 PM
from the what's-wrong-with-an-engineering-degree dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Engineers' focus and attention to details, along with their perceived lack of social skills, make them ideal targets to be recruited as terrorists, according to EETimes. Planning skills make engineers good 'field operatives' was written up by Raphael Perl, who heads the Action against Terrorism Unit of Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. He offers that 'Engineers ideally make excellent strategic planners, and they make excellent field operatives. They think differently from how other people think.' That may sound like a stereotype, but Perl claims that 'because of those traits, terrorist groups actively recruit engineers.' He says that Al-Qaeda has widely acknowledged that a significant number of the group's top leadership had engineering backgrounds." This is the second time in just a few months that engineers have been likened to terrorists.
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[+] Engineers Have a Terrorist Mindset? 837 comments
An anonymous reader writes "Do engineers have a way of looking at the world not all that different from terrorists? According to an article in the EE Times, they do. The story cites 'Engineers of Jihad,' a paper (pdf download) by two Oxford University sociologists, who found that graduates in science, engineering, and medicine are strongly overrepresented among Islamist movements. The paper also found that engineers are 'over-represented' among graduates who gravitate to violent groups. Authors Diego Gambetta and Steffen Hertog chalk this all up to what they call the 'engineering mindset,' which they define as 'a mindset that inclines them to take more extreme conservative and religious positions.' Is this just pop psychology masquerading as science?"
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  • Old news (Score:5, Funny)

    by spazdor (902907) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:13PM (#22955722)
    We've been tapping engineers for our cause ever since Counterstrike came out.
  • by RobinH (124750) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:13PM (#22955738) Homepage
    ...but alas I'm an engineer, not a lawyer. :(
    • by TheSeventh (824276) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:52PM (#22956374)
      Lack of social skills? No way. I actually had a date last year, thank you very much. We even almost kissed.

      We were supposed to go out on a second date, but she got the flu, and then her mother was sick, after that her grandma died and her father had a heart attack and she couldn't make it.

      I figured I was better off anyway. With that many people sick in her family, she must have had horrible genes.
  • by smartaleq (905491) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:16PM (#22955784)
    We should flood these terrorist groups with engineers and let them improve all their weapons. Afterwards, they'll have pieces left over and nothing will work. Isn't there some saying about "give an engineer a broken computer and he'll give you a working radio"?
  • by esocid (946821) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:18PM (#22955810) Journal

    I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills. I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
  • Aptly named (Score:5, Funny)

    by PCM2 (4486) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:18PM (#22955812) Homepage
    With a name like Perl, this man is well-suited to discuss the link between coding and terror.

    Also, if you read TFA, he goes on to state that "laziness, impatience, and hubris" are the three virtues of a good terrorist.

    P.S. Christ, what has happened to Slashdot's page layout today?? The goggles do nothing!
  • Blah blah. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SatanicPuppy (611928) * <Satanicpuppy@@@gmail...com> on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:18PM (#22955816) Journal
    I hate these articles, but I can't decide if I hate them because they're intellectual snobbery (not only are we better than physicists, mathematicians, chemists, etc, we're also superlative terrorists!) or I hate them because they're anti-intellectual (Engineers are all smart and anti-social, therefore they're basically the unabomber).

    Basically anyone who is methodical and knowledgeable would make a good X, where X is something that needs a methodical knowledgeable person. Engineers are required to be methodical and knowledgeable, so QED.

    I don't know why they're so damn fixated on engineers though. Doesn't take an engineer to slam a plane into a building, and that's about the most successful piece of terrorism to date.
    • by essinger (781940) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:29PM (#22956012) Homepage

      (Engineers are all smart and anti-social, therefore they're basically the unabomber).
      I think a common stereotype. A friend of mine (who is an actor) told me he'd heard a great joke about engineers:

      How do you tell if an engineer is an introvert or an extrovert?
      The extrovert looks at your shoes.
    • by Lord Ender (156273) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:39PM (#22956148) Homepage
      It takes methodical planning to coordinate the near-simultaneous slamming of four planes, especially when starting with nothing but some money and a group of suicidal, sex-starved Saudis who have no flight training.

      Engineers will be better than scientists or academics, despite similarly high intelligence levels, because engineers actually have to show results with their projects.

      Instead of profiling and waging wars, though, America's efforts to stop terrorism would best be served by a policy aimed at getting everyone on the planet a good fuck and some cold beer.
  • Wargames... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jemenake (595948) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:19PM (#22955836)
    Reminds me of the quote in Wargames: "He does fit the profile perfectly. He's intelligent, but an under-achiever; alienated from his parents; has few friends. Classic case for recruitment by the Soviets"
  • by mr_mischief (456295) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:20PM (#22955852) Journal
    That engineers plan things well should be no surprise. Engineers as a group design everything from bridges to sports stadiums to computer chips. They try to find a good balance of expected average need, overbuild and contingency performance, and cost.

    That both the terrorists and those fighting the terrorists would want chemical, electrical, structural, and electronics engineers for their specific areas of expertise alone should come as no surprise. That they're also found to be good planners in general is only slightly less obvious.

    The assumption that all engineers are similar to terrorists I think is a stretch.
  • More appropriate (Score:5, Insightful)

    by spleen_blender (949762) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:25PM (#22955946)
    Engineers make good EVERYTHING.
  • by pembo13 (770295) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:28PM (#22955992) Homepage

    I frankly find the analysis to be flattering. I don't have to agree with who I am being compared with to appreciate the comparison.. only the qualities being compared are important.

    So, thanks for the complement

  • by ericferris (1087061) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:33PM (#22956066) Homepage

    Overall, it's hard to disagree with the article. Heck, a guy who has the persistence and brains to go through the gruesome class schedules of an Engineering school will not be easily deterred by obstacles. And he is inventive by training if not nature.

    An engineer could easily turn bad... And he'd be very good at being bad, if he has the motivation. So the conclusion should be obvious: don't alienate engineers.

    That said, I recently met a very nice and competent guy from Pakistan who is in the USA on an H1B visa. He is a PHP developer, and he is quite good. We discussed finances, and to my horror, I found out that he is making $1100/month. His employer houses him in an appartment along with six other H1Bs, so he prolly saves $1000/month in rent, but still, this is an insultingly low pay rate for such a qualified guy, but a factor 4 at least.

    Now, this guy is very nice, and way too busy to even think about trouble. But I can't help thinking my reaction if I was dropped into a country where I would make less than your average waiter, after years of hard schooling. I'd harbor a grudge, that's for sure.

    So a piece of advice for Execs and VPs: don't be too stingy with your folks. Them techie weirdos can turn into rampaging monster at the drop of a hat. Heck, I'll give them free espressos and decent raisses if I were you. :-)

  • by xs650 (741277) on Thursday April 03 2008, @05:11PM (#22956644)
    If very many competent engineers were terrorists, terrorism would be far more devastating than it is today.
    • by TheRealMindChild (743925) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:26PM (#22955954) Homepage Journal
      But terrorists? Only if the engineers are lonely, disgruntled people in-general. I think most engineers would be more Constructive than Destructive by nature

      You see... that is the problem. The term "Terrorist" has been so deluded that most people will fall into that category anymore. Smoke pot? Terrorist. Downloaded a song? Terrorist. Using SSH? Terrorist.

      And it is thrown around even more, if you show an average intelligence larger than those who would label you a terrorist... and how many people do you think fall into that category?
    • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:36PM (#22956116)
      A good engineer will always think of the possibilities of destruction, even if they're in the business of construction. An engineer has to critically think about their designs to determine where the weak points are. Whether designing skyscrapers or secure software, determining weaknesses is a part of the job.

      I'm sure the thought police would have a field day with me for saying this, but I think about committing crimes now and then. Not that I would do such thing, I enjoy my life outside of prison. But just as a type of mental exercise it's interesting to me while standing in line at a store, noticing where cameras are located, determining blind spots, exit strategies, exposed wiring that could be cut, etc. I then think about how I would improve the system.

      My point is that engineering is about designing stability. You can't produce stability if you aren't able to see the possibility of destruction, so the same qualities that make one a good engineer are the qualities that make them a potential terrorist in the eyes of a paranoid politician.
    • by phorm (591458) on Thursday April 03 2008, @04:43PM (#22956242) Homepage Journal
      I'd have to agree that it's a fairly thin correlation to draw. Mind you, if I were going to blow something up, I suppose I'd want somebody with an engineering background in demolitions as opposed to an art major.

      The question is where you'd fine such an engineer. Unless he/she is already a bit of a nutjob, an engineering background should come with decent employment options and intelligence that would somewhat contrast with the somewhat brainwashed or easily overwhelmed variety of terrorist-recruit that tends to be more readily available.

      Recruiting engineers to be terrorists, likely not. Training terrorists to be engineers would be more likely.