PayPal Launches Virtual Debit Card

IpSo_ writes "You can now use PayPal via a Virtual Debit Card when making online purchases anywhere MasterCard is accepted. Basically it generates a virtual card number each time you make a transaction online so you don't have to use your personal debit or credit card number. Will people be more comfortable making online purchases with this, or will it flop because its too much of an inconvenience?"

Citibank has had this for years

[TooMuchToDo]

Citibank says, "Been there, done that."

Re:Citibank has had this for years

[prof_peabody]

I don't trust paypal one bit and would be more inclined to get a citibank account to do this. Every person I know who has had a bad transaction has had their account frozen... Terrible customer support also.

Re:

[chimpo13]

Google Pay is way nicer than Pay Pal, only eBay recognizes that, and won't let you use Google Pay on eBay. They're not charging a fee until Jan 2008.

Just don't try to use Google to register a domain name. They haven't worked out the details with GoDaddy and the domain I bought as an Xmas present for a friend of mine is in limbo. GoDaddy says it's a Google problem and there's no way me or any of the supervisors at GoDaddy can get in touch with anyone at Google. Argh.

Re:

[StikyPad]

Google Pay is way nicer than Pay Pal, only eBay recognizes that, and won't let you use Google Pay on eBay.

The fact that eBay owns PayPal could also have something to do with it...

No kidding.

[Valdrax]

Yeah, I can see myself signing up to give Paypal access to my credit cards or bank accounts just for the privilege of keeping my credit card number away from untrustworthy, unscrupulous merchants who are out to steal my mon....

Wait a minute. Oh-ho-ho! Nice try, Paypal! You almost got me there. Whew!

Re:

[gmack]

I have an easy fix for that. I have a bank account reserved for paypal and paypal NEVER sees my main account. When I want to spend money I transfer it in. When I get money I transfer it out. This way paypal can only touch the money if I want them to.

Re:

[TClevenger]

Exactly. A nice no-monthly-fee account at WaMu or a credit union is just the ticket for PayPal users.

Re:

[StikyPad]

I just use credit cards. It's not exactly difficult to get a fraudulent charge reversed by the credit card issuer in most cases, and then they can sort out the mess on their own. In any event, your maximum liability under federal law is $50 per card. Maybe $50 is a lot to you, but it's certainly better than getting your bank account cleaned out (assuming the balance is over $50) and/or having PayPal as your only recourse, since a bank won't usually (and isn't required to AFAIK) do anything about an elect

Re:

[h4rm0ny]

That sums it up for me. The one advantage of a one-time or disposable credit card number would be anonymity. This doesn't have that. I want something I can buy in a shop for cash, load up with a pre-paid amount and use online, throwing away when I'm done with it.

PrivaCash

[Valdrax]

I want something I can buy in a shop for cash, load up with a pre-paid amount and use online, throwing away when I'm done with it.

This may be what you want. [privacash.com] Look for their non-personalized cards and never reload them as you have to give personal info to do so. I heard about this on a privacy-oriented site, but I've never tried them myself, so I don't know how hard it is to avoid giving personal info.

Re:

[um... Lucas]

Anonymity's dead.

I wish it wasn't the case, but honestly... it's over and done with.

I wanted that too, even bought a prepaid charge card for that purpose, but wouldn't you know it, they wanted my SSN to activate the card for me, and of course they needed a mailing address to ship the card to me...

But let's see, even if i'd gotten the digits over the phone, I could then order something online through an online store that doubtlessly logs the IP address. If i ordered something for delivery, they have my home

Re: But it doesn't always work well

[AnaemicVampire]

Citibank and HSBC both have had this system for a while.

I've stopped using it though after a rather unpleasant incident where the online vendor (ETS) did not perform the transaction immediately, but instead waited for 2 working days to debit the amount. The one time card is not meant to last for that period of time (quite obviously, otherwise there would be little safety). The transaction was denied and I was charged an additional 20$. The nice folks at ETS refused to allow another GRE registration till

Re:

[quantum bit]

Which one were you using? The citibank one (at least the flash-based version I use because I'm not running windows) allows you to specify the expiration date, and I think it defaults to the end of the month.

Re:

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I really don't know anybody that this has happened to. I've had several hundred transactions, I think 300+ unique buyers and never had a problem.

So has Paypal

[Marxist Hacker 42]

They took it away for a time, but apparently now it's back. The only difference I can see between the old Virtual Debit Card and the new one is the random account number generator.

Nah

[Nazmun]

They've always had it. They just made the link too difficult to find.

The real news is that they are beta'ing a new version with the random number generator for the CV2 code that many websites ask for. This way even if they have your CC number and your old CV2 card the transaction won't go through since it changes after a purchase. Preventing duplicate purchases or thieves using your number.

Re:

[KermodeBear]

I *always* use this when making online purchases. I never use my 'real' credit card number. Yes, it is a little inconvenient to log into another web site, navigate to a few pages, generate a number, and type it into the fields (it is not selectable for copy/paste, being a flash app), but I go through it because, to me, the extra steps are worth the trouble. It doesn't cost me any extra money and it helps reduce fraud, which is good for everyone involved.

Too bad CitiBank was bought out by Bank of America. Wh

Re:

[AKAImBatman]

Too bad CitiBank was bought out by Bank of America. When that happened, for a while the website didn't work at all - which meant I wasn't able to pay my bills online (and customer service wouldn't do squat to help me out, since my information somehow disappeared during the migration); now they have resorted to some lame iframing around the original site so they can brand it with BoA's logo.

I think you're confusing Citibank [wikipedia.org] with MBNA [wikipedia.org]. I agree that the MBNA/BoA merger was less than stellar. But that's par for

Re:

[KermodeBear]

You're 100% correct, it was MBNA. My bad. My brain has been off on vacation today. )o:

Re:

[markov_chain]

Citibank.com? I don't see any mention of BoA there.

Re:Citibank has had this for years

[no-body]

Citibank says, "Been there, done that."

And Paypal said after using up 16 virtual Citi numbers:
YOUR ACCOUNT HAS BEEN LIMITED

- the reference number given in the reason did not reveal a case
- emails to support did not solve the issue
- talking to support (yes, it is possible at times) did not solve the issue

Another account needed to be created to use PayPal for business purpose

After filling out a ridiculouly long survey-like questionaire for this case and mentioning that they would have heard from my attorney would there be any funds on the account, it came to their attention that there may be something wrong and - yes you can now use an unlimited number of credit card numbers...

No, thank you very much, Pay Pal!

Re:

[Sqwubbsy]

this little venture will take off like a Saturn V rocket with a barrage of strapon scramjets.

I personally support any paradigm that warrants an analogy with 'strapons'.

Re:

[Lehk228]

and since paypal is involved, like with a strapon, someone is getting F&#ked in the ass

Discover have been generating numbers for years...

[mdaitc]

Discover Card have been generating numbers for years...

there's the stanadlone App, or the web-based version - the numbers are one-time use, and can be used anywhere - on or off the net.

why is the rest of the world not keeping up?

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years

[garcia]

why is the rest of the world not keeping up?

Because I have very little use for one of these? My credit card already protects me from fraudulent charges and I'm not worried in the least if someone uses it two states away for gas. If Chase makes me call them when I'm going outside of my "home area" so they don't shut me off, then I'm not concerned if someone steals the card number after I make a purchase online at Newegg.

If someone uses the card locally, big deal. I call Chase and tell them that the card was stolen and the charge wasn't mine. Not many questions asked.

For *most* people, they just aren't paranoid enough to use a one time number for their purchases.

Re:

[pushf popf]

why is the rest of the world not keeping up? Because I have very little use for one of these? My credit card already protects me from fraudulent charges and I'm not worried in the least if someone uses it two states away for gas. If Chase makes me call them when I'm going outside of my "home area" so they don't shut me off, then I'm not concerned if someone steals the card number after I make a purchase online at Newegg. If someone uses the card locally, big deal. I call Chase and tell them that the card

Re:

[marcello_dl]

I agree: better not to leave credit card numbers around, checking your bills becomes easier and you save lots of time and hassles. Using virtual cards is longer, but it's well spent for increased safety.

I always boot from live cd before doing any banking online btw.

Re:

[loraksus]

My credit card already protects me from fraudulent charges

Yeah, but this is paypal we're talking about...

Auto-subscription scams are one good reason

[fv]

If someone uses the card locally, big deal. I call Chase and tell them that the card was stolen and the charge wasn't mine. Not many questions asked.

It certainly can be a big deal if you don't notice the fraudulent charge quickly, if Chase decides to investigate extensively, if you have to file police reports, dealing with card reissuance when you're travelling, if the episode makes its way onto your credit history, if the criminals continue to steal your identity in other ways, etc. Plus, the costs of

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years

[garcia]

There's a huge difference between a credit card and a debit card. A debit card transaction affects the balance of your bank (or paypal) account.

You should *never* use a debit card *anywhere*. Why you might ask? "But they are so popular! Everyone is doing it!"

Just wait until a drunken bartender, rushed register clerk, or malicious waitress adds an extra digit to your transaction and you're suddenly bouncing checks or being charged fees for your overdraft protection.

Re:

[szembek]

You don't have overdraft protection on your checking account? Get with the times. If I overdraw my checking it just pulls $100 from my visa. No problems. I buy everything with my check card. No bounced checks. No fees.

Re:

[garcia]

You don't have overdraft protection on your checking account? Get with the times. If I overdraw my checking it just pulls $100 from my visa. No problems. I buy everything with my check card. No bounced checks. No fees.

My bank has a "loan" system for overdraft protection (and yes I do have it) but you are charged some minimal interest if it goes over.

Re:

[szembek]

True the interest can be a factor. That's my motivation for trying to keep on track with my checking. It is a bad idea to use the over draft protection on a regular basis.

Re:

[cwiegand]

Talk to your bank - USBank protects debit cards to the same standard that VISA does for credit cards (which, since USBank debit cards usually double as VISA-network cards, works out well). In fact, a lot of banks these days are stepping up to the plate and saying that they will not hold you accountable for fraudulent charges.

Re:

[garcia]

What I like about my debit card is that all my transactions appear immediately online.

Except for gas purchases made at the pump -- $1 anyone? But yes, that is a convenient thing about them but even if they appear there as "pending" it could have already hit your account and overdrawn it even if it hasn't hit the actual account (we have experienced that and now have overdraft protection to stop that from happening again for the reasons I listed above).

Re:

[Sancho]

That /must/ be a bank thing. My debit transactions can still take a day to show online. I'll see the total amount I have available drop, but it may be 24 hours before I see where the transaction was made.

I imagine there are some banks out there which can do the same for a credit card.

Re:

[ArsonSmith]

I had this happen with my old Mortgage company. Double charged my debit card on the first month after a refinance.

I called them and they said it would be a 1-3 month investigation and they'd return the money. I said screw that, called my bank and had the money back in my account in less than an hour. Explained to the teller on the phone what happened she saw the two identical charages and reversed one. I never heard anything back from that. That was about 3 years ago and I got out of that mortgage comp

Re:

[StikyPad]

Usually if you explain what happened to the bank, they will waive the fees. Ninety percent of the time they will waive them just by you explaining. Worst case, you'll have to do a lot of arguing, but it's still very likely you'll succeed. It depends on your bank, however my fiancee is a banker, and every bank she's worked at has instructed the reps to simply reverse the fees if there's even a hint of justification.

Re:

[garcia]

In my example above, a disgruntled waitress who didn't appreciate your tip could add a larger sum to your actual tip value than you intended.

In the US, if your charges are under $25 you don't have to sign the receipt (it's becoming more and more common as people are not carrying cash and fast food is allowing charging). They could have made a mistake, not paid attention to it being $205 and you could go over.

Ad nauseum.

Re:

[Mister Whirly]

Debit card + overdraft protection at bank = problem solved without need for one-time number generator.

This is a GREAT idea.

[Twixter]

A lot of people will use it for two reasons:

2.) Online Buying Clarity: You'll be able to view all charges you make on the internet individually and not have it mixed in with your regular credit card bill.

1.) Privacy: You can use a Credit Card online with it it showing up on your Credit Card Bill. It will be BIG in the online porn world.

Re:This is a GREAT idea.

[frostyboy]

Well, it'll still show up on some bill (whatever account you have your paypal linked to), just as a "paypal" transaction and not as a "ccbill" or "paycom" or whatever porn-site cc processor the site uses. If you want real privacy, you would have to go to the mall and buy one of those visa gift-cards with cash. Totally untraceable and you can "assign" any address/name info to them for online merchant use. (Note: Of course I've never actually done this, but hear about it all the time from others.)

Re:

[altek]

First of all, not sure why this was modded as funny.

Second of all, it would only show up as a PayPal transaction on your "real" bank account IF you didn't have a paypal balance. If you have a paypal account with an actual balance, it would just come out of there. So YES, it would show up still as a transaction, but only on your PayPal account, so the wife doesn't see your pr0n amazon purchases.

Re:

[n0g]

RE: Prepaid debit cards. From an anonymity standpoint, these seem almost ideal. Assuming you fund them with cash, they should be untraceable. I'm surprised there hasn't been a great hue and cry from US Homeland Security because there's no verifiable name attached to them, no SSAN, no driver's license number.

Are they usable on internet gambling sites? If not, is there a prepaid card that *is* usable?

Even conventional Visa/Mastercard business cards must have a person's name on them, not just the business nam

Re:

[Rob T Firefly]

It will be BIG in the online porn world.

Didn't Paypal have some sort of rule against funding pr0n? I seem to remember that being the reason the Jennicam girl gave for shutting her site down way back whenever.

Re:This is a GREAT idea.

[ShaunC]

You can't use your PayPal account directly to subscribe to (or receive funds for) adult websites, but your PayPal debit card is just a regular Mastercard, as far as purchases go.

This is a new idea?

[frostyboy]

Doesn't every other major credit card bank do this already? I know my AMEX, Discover and Citibank cards already let you go online and generate a one-time-use number. It's handy not only for security purposes, but in case I don't have my wallet with me and need to buy something online. I just have to log into the website and can immediately get a usable number for the purchase.

Re:

[szembek]

No they don't. My credit union doesn't do this, so this is a good thing for me. And your post is redundant. Several other people said that exact same unoriginal thing.

"Article" is a pop-up window

[Anonymous Coward]

The editors really don't look at this stuff, do they?

The link goes to the contents of a pop-up window displaying a FAQ that's intended for the BETA USERS of this service.

"Launched" isn't the word that should be used for the current state.

Re:

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I don't understand what is new about this program, I used a PayPal virtual card very early this year. At least it was something like a one-use number for merchants that don't directly accept PayPal.

Years old news

[metamatic]

Yup, I was using PayPal virtual credit card numbers well over 2 years ago. Has something changed about the feature?

It's been around for years

[Colin Smith]

Smile did/do it.

Paypal: We Suck Harder

[Tackhead]

> The Card Is Virtual - The Security Is Very Real

Any time someone claims "the security is very real", the bogometer enters the red.

> I missed the demo when I downloaded the PayPal Virtual Debit Card. How can I see it again?

"Downloaded"? You mean this is an application? Bogometer pegged. Spyware sensor into the red.

> How do I use PayPal Virtual Debit Card?
>
> When you are ready to make a purchase on a website that accepts MasterCard, a notifier appears asking if you'd like to pay with PayPal Virtual Debit Card. You can click on the notifier to use PayPal Virtual Debit Card, and you can also always access PayPal Virtual Debit Card from the icons located on your browser's toolbar and system task tray.

Ah, it's not just a separate application, it's an (IE-only, presumably) Browser Helper Object and/or background service. Not only is the bogometer needle is bent, but the spyware sensor is on fire, and I'm reaching for my wallet, where my small fistful of weathered Federal Reserve Notes is looking mighty comfortable right about now.

Even by PayPal's standards, this is looking like a galactic-central-black-hole-through-buckytubes pile of suck.

Re:

[Myself]

Heh. I was thinking "It might not suck if they bundle a bugmenot-plugin-like browser extension that automatically generates and fills in the number for you when you tell it to", but that would obviously only be a good idea if it were optional.

You've hit the nail on the head here. The more I learn about PayPal, the less I like them, but the alternatives aren't compelling either. Damn.

GCBHTBTPOS

[bagofbeans]

Firefly-san, you may be right...

It'll flop, but for different reasons

[slughead]

will it flop because its too much of an inconvenience?

It'll flop because paypal is the worst 'bank' to have to deal with. They have poor customer service, the fees are outrageous, phishing is out of control, and the Bank of America already has something like this.

Ever get accused of not delivering something on E-Bay? It works out pretty well because paypal will just automatically steal the money out of your account, or send debt collection on your ass if you don't have the balance.

This all happens before they even talk to you. This is why I use neither E-bay nor paypal.

Re:

[martok]

I'm not a big fan of this one myself. Mainly because the funds are withdrawn from Paypal balance or chequing account. Paypal gets their 2%-3.5% from the merchant and I don't see any of that. With a regular credit card, I can get 1% cashback on the transaction as well as 30 days interest free before I actually have to pay. These vurtual cards unless offered directly by the card issuer (I believe Amex does this) don't offer the same consumer benefits.

Besides, if by chance an evil website logs my cc numbe

accountability

[Speare]

How about asking, "Will it finally force PayPal to follow US Federal Law regarding financial institutions, or will it continue to act as with capricious disregard for facts and evidence when there's a payment dispute?"

Re:

[loraksus]

No, they will claim since a number was generated, it had to be you ("only you know the password")and you're responsible for the charges. And since the thieving motherfuckers took the funds from your checking account, you have no recourse with your bank.

Re:

[giminy]

Hear hear.

I just filed a paypal dispute (seller "shipped" but I never received anything). The seller never responded to the dispute in the 30 days they had, and paypal ruled thusly:

"We have decided in your favor, however, we were unable to recover any funds
from the seller's account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement, recovery
of funds associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed."

That sure is some great buyer protection they have. Thank goodness my credit card company is actually a bank, and

Well... this sucks.

[mark-t]

From their QA about the virtual debit card [paypal.com]:

Q: What are the system requirements for PayPal Virtual Debit Card?

A: PayPal Virtual Debit Card is compatible with Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.01 or later. Other system requirements include:

Operating System: Windows 98, ME, 2000, NT, or XP
CPU: 133 MHz or higher
Memory: 128 MB RAM
Hard Disk: 2 MB space available
Internet Connection: 56K modem (Broadband recommended for optimal performance)
Web Browser: IE 5.01 or later

Need I say more?

It's worse than that

[metamatic]

It used to work in any browser. The change they've made is to make it so it only works in IE on Windows. Major downgrade.

Not that I can find any kind of feedback address...

stop beeing so US centric

[perler]

for people outside the US this will be a good thing (TM). here in europe, credit cards aren't so popular as in the US and shop's who only offer payement by credit card (nytimes.com comes to my mind) are just not usable for me (not haveing a CC) so, when paypal finally launches their product, i can stop doing these buys with my mother's CC.

Re:

[giorgiofr]

WTF are you saying? I don't know anyone who doesn't have one or more.

Re:

[perler]

see subject for god's sake..

PAT

Liability?

[rhainman]

What happens if you are a victim of a fraudulent purchase and you need to do a chargeback? Is it even possible? I assume it's harder to do because the money has already been paid in full from your own personal account and not from the card issuer's account.

Re:

[loraksus]

Good luck trying to contact paypal in the first place to actually file the chargeback.
Once you've spent 5 hours on the phone with them getting to the right department, you'll find out that it will be quite some time before you get your money back.

And if you think you can file a chargeback against paypal - sure, you can, if you don't mind them freezing your account and taking the money out of your bank account...

Hasn't Paypal done this for years?

[CliffSpradlin]

I am sure I've used this several years ago, it would make a frame in the top of the browser with the temporary number, and then you could browse any site you wanted to shop underneath and use it there.

I seem to also remember there being issues with lots of places not taking these cards due to extreme fraud.

-Cliff

Re:

[CliffSpradlin]

Isn't that kind of irrelevent? I thought that CVV was designed so that you'd need physical access to the card, and not just an impression of it (which is why it's printed and not pressed into the card). If so, this card is not physical in any way and such a value would make no difference in its security.

Re:

[wmshub]

CVV is the same each time you use it. A compromised site could be modified to store the CVV and the number of the card, then the thief can take these and use your card all they want.

With the paypal system, it is supposed to be safe because the number is only usable *once* before you have to get a new one.

Of course, if somebody can get your paypal password, then all bets are off...but that's just a small problem, right?

If you ever contacted PayPal you know the answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's how PayPal responded (after 3 business days) to my question about one of my transactions. It took me three (3) tries to get a real answer out of them, which was basically: "You'll have to contact the seller".

I will never use PayPal for anything other than cheap crap (less than $100) I buy occasionally on ebay.

Dear A.C.,

Due to an increase in seasonal email volumes, we may not have been able to
answer your email.

If your inquiry has not been resolved or you have further questions
regarding your PayPal acc

Re:

[loraksus]

If spending 3 hours in fucking queue is your idea of an effective use of time, sure, calling paypal is a great idea.

Similar to a OTP

[bluefoxlucid]

This is like PAM-OTP, which I like very much. One-Time-Passwords would be an awesome way to manage credit card purchases; like say, you need to be certified to handle a credit card, but you can withdraw X dollars max no matter who you are via a OTP. If this was implemented I could tell, say, Mastercard, "Generate 15 passwords for me: 5 $5, 5 $50, and 5 $100," and then use those to OTP out purchases. If I use a $100 password to buy a $75 item, $75 is charged and that password is invalid; if I try to use it to buy a $110 item, $100 is charged and I owe $10 to the seller.

Re:

[jroysdon]

Yup, at least that's what MBNA (now BankAmerica) has had for a long time. You can lock in the amount and when the card number expires (minimum is 2 months). I love it, and don't worry about shopping online or even via the phone (since I only have a cell phone), since the number is basically useless since I set the limit to the rounded up dollar amount of my purchase.

I also found it useful for sites that wouldn't tell me the tax and shipping costs until AFTER I entered in my creditcard. I'd limit it to th

Paypal itself is virtual

[tsstahl]

Paypal is not a bank.

Paypal is not a savings and loan.

Paypal is not a retail store.

Paypal is not an insurance company.

Paypal is not a manufacturing company

Paypal is not an exchange of any kind.

Paypal is not a foundation committed to a cause.

What argument could then persuade me to trust them with money that is most certainly NOT virtual?

I'm not someone with a cross to bear. Paypal has never screwed me over, and the idea of paypal is very appealing. However, the practices of Paypal have been and are egregious for very little benefit to the average consumer. Even as a small business owner, the appeal of Paypal as it currently operates is scant.

Just mod me as flamebait, I guess. In the immortal words of Tom Hanks in Big, I don't get it!

Are you my mother?

[Overzeetop]

That's what popped into my ming reading your post.

Still, you're correct. Paypal is about the last corporation I would trust with my money. I have an account which I use for ebay purposes, and it's liked to a small, lightly used checking account separate from my "real" account. I never pay with instant transfer, always using a CC as an intermediary.

As for OTU numbers - I loved them when I had them. Amex canned their program years ago. Visa/MC don't have a system wide program, and my card of choice - Chase -

Re:

[jroysdon]

Tell Chase you want to see this feature and that you're considering switching to MBNA/BankAmerica and/or CitiBank which both offer it. When enough people complain, they'll jump on it.

Re:

[LunaticTippy]

My friend bought a custom musical instrument from overseas recently. The payment choices were a)2 bank wire transfer with unspecified charges at the 2nd bank and US$50 for the 1st bank. Estimated time was 5-10 days. b)paypal - instant, free (for buyer, 3% or so for seller so $30 on a $1000 purchase)

In this instance, paypal was the sanest option.

Re:

[tsstahl]

I see. So, not only is Paypal immune to US banking law, they are free of international monetary regulation.

I would agree that in the example you cited, Paypal was the best choice.

The determination of quality in any operation is not delivering the product when everything goes as planned. Quality is demonstrated when transactions fall outside of normal parameters. Paypal has failed by most reasonable standards when it comes to handling...reverse transactions for lack of a better term.

I suppose you could ar

Re:

[LunaticTippy]

I agree that paypal should be subject to laws. It is somewhat unsettling to think that there is little recourse should things go against my best interests. I have made hundreds of paypal transactions without problem, though. I continue to use it. The handful of boundary cases (not receiving an item, falsely accused of not sending an item) were all resolved in my favor, but I made sure to do everything properly. If you miss a deadline you are screwed. If you don't have proof of delivery you are screwed

Re:

[Jeff DeMaagd]

True. But everything else on the Internet is virtual too. But the money I made using PayPal when selling my products is real. I've had maybe 500 transactions via Paypal and they have not lost or stolen my money, ever. When I was starting out, PayPal allowed me to accept payments by credit card without having to spend $20+ a month on a merchant account. The PayPal fees were a little higher than CC merchant fees, but not having a monthly fee, and having built-in shipping services paid for itself. That w

Re:

[Cederic]

You've described the "everything works as expected" use case.

It's the other routes through the paypal value chain that scare me senseless.

You could always do that with PayPal

[ahecht]

Paypal has had that feature working with any browser, without installing any BHOs (or whatever the IE only software is they require now), and without having to be invited to the beta. Just go to https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/shop/v debit [paypal.com]/

This feature has been around for years and years.

Re:

[assassinator42]

Is that linked to anywhere from the PayPal site? I know I've used it before, a while ago. The question is: Is PayPal calling this a new service, or did the submitter find an old pop-up and mistake it for new?

Re:

[The Cisco Kid]

It is no longer linked anywhere from paypal. Theyve ceased supporting it or offering it to anyone that wasnt already using it. They 'new' virtual card isnt a popup, its a windows-only application.

Old news?

[LouisZepher]

I could've sworn Pay Pal did this sort of thing years ago. I certainly remember using it long before I got the Pay Pal card or could use my normal bank cards for debit.

The throw away credit card number

[dissy]

In fairness, the throw-away credit card number part should be fairly decent as far as online shopping goes.

I used to have an actual credit card that had this feature (MBNA bank if anyone is interested, highly recomended.)

They had it where you could use the app on the webpage, or download what appeared to be a flash standalone app that did the same thing.

It would generate a credit card #, exp date (of your choosing, min 1 month in advance rounded to the end of that month) and the 3 digit code. You could also set a limit on that card.
Once it was charged to by someone, the number was locked to that vendor, and only they could make future charges to it.
You can also go in and shut it off at any time prior to the expiration.

The idea is, in the automated way a charge is made to the card, and even if it is stored, stolen, or sniffed along the way, anyone ELSE trying to use that number after the automated charge would get denied.
Also the store itself would get denied if it tried to charge over the limit, or past the expiration or when you disabled the number.

It was a feature I used quite alot.

The only downside here is the fact its PayPal and not a real bank. So kudos for them adding a good feature, but booo for them still being paypal and all the downsides that entails.

Paypal?

[Cervantes]

That's right folks... Paypal. The people who brought you trustworthy and hassle-free online banking, now want to install something on your computer. Nothing could possibl-ii go wrong.

Oh my. That's the first thing that's ever gone wrong. Hm, how about that?

(end hackneys Simpsons reference)

I'd love to yell and scream about this more, but unfortunately (and unfathomably), Paypal has wide market acceptance. Sure, BidPay is making inroads, but the sad point is that Paypal has become commonplace... so this will t

eBay and PayPal

[szembek]

So eBay refuses to accept payments from Google Payments because they own PayPal. How long will their "it's not proven to be secure" argument hold up before they are slammed with a lawsuit. I'm no lawyer but it sounds an awful lot like the stuff Microsoft got in trouble for in the past, except worse. At least with Windows you *could* download and install a third-party browser. With eBay they are choking off a specific form of payment, and you know it's because it would clearly damage PayPal.

Re:

[SeaFox]

At least with Windows you *could* download and install a third-party browser. With eBay they are choking off a specific form of payment, and you know it's because it would clearly damage PayPal.

EBay isn't doing anything but hurting themselves. Ebay is just an enabler, they have no actual control over what form of payment you use. They neither hold the money in escrow or hold the merchandise. They can't stop you from using Google Payments to pay for an auction won, and they can't tell the seller he can't shi

Yes, new....very new.

[man_ls]

I've used PayPal Virtual Debit Card numbers since like 2002, it's been an option for YEARS.

My credit card company, Citibank, also offers the same thing.

How is this new? Or interesting?

Re:

[httpamphibio.us]

It's not new... they just reintroduced this feature. It's been gone for a couple months now. It's like when mapquest discontinued their road trip planner and then brought it back and marketed it as being something AMAZING!#!!

Re:

[The Cisco Kid]

Whats new is that in order to add the CVV number, theyve removed other functionality.

It used to be a java/javascript 'web bar' that showed a fixed virtual number that you could use. It worked in any standards compliant browser.

Now its a window-only application, and supposedly in addition to the CVV it generates a new number for each transaction. Neat, but useless for anyone that recognzes that private financial information and MS make a bad mix.

Not a bank!

[Duncan3]

The difference is, PayPal is not a bank, and goes to GREAT lengths to avoid being under any of the banking laws that protect you and me from companies, well... like PayPal.

They do a great deal of business catering to criminals, er customers that cannot get a credit card or a merchant account. Considering the criteria for both are trivial, that's saying a lot.

Re:

[The Cisco Kid]

Qualifying for a real credit card is *NOT* trivial unless you want to pay $50 to apply for a $300 limit card that they immediately bill $295 in processing, monthly *and* annual fees, leaving you $295 in debt instantly.

I have no bankruptcies, no signifigant unpaid debts, one fully paid used car loan from about 10 years ago, and I cant seem to even get a department store card, let alone a major card. The answer is always 'insufficient credit history'. So they wont give me credit, becuase I didnt already have

This isn't new

[whoda]

I shopped with a Paypal Virtual card a few times a few years ago. Then it kind of disappeared fromi the Paypal site without any notice.
I'm not sure what's different now.

Re:

[241comp]

And you could still do this (they never disabled this feature) as long as you knew what URL to go to. I've been using it for years.

Re:

[ahecht]

Umm, you've been able to order a real plastic Mastercard debit card that deducts from your paypal account for some time now. You even get 1% cash back on all purchases. https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/c ps/general/PayPalDebitCardLP&channel=1&promo=761 [paypal.com]

Re:

[loraksus]

Even a shitty $500 limit card given to college students has better than 1% cashback. I can't fathom why people would use paypal's debit card when a real credit card offers actual buyer protection...

Re:

[The Cisco Kid]

"Debit/Credit" is and always has been a misnomer, and the wrong thing for the cashier to ask.
The correct thing for the cashier to ask is " 'ATM/PIN', or 'Visa/MC/Discover'? "

ATM/PIN (usually labeled 'debit' on POS terminals) is pretty much always 'debit' (it takes it out of funds already deposited on account).

Visa/MC (usually labeled 'credit' on POS terminals) can be either 'debit or credit (and the cashier does NOT need to know which it is to process it, even though shes pressing a 'credit' button on her t