TiVo File Encryption Cracked 250
An anonymous reader writes "TiVo file encryption has been cracked. Details on the project can be found on the wiki. Mac and Linux users rejoice!" The project page says, "The conversion still requires the valid MAK of the TiVo which recorded the file, so it cannot be used to circumvent their protection, simply to provide the same level of access as is already available on Windows."
Yay fair use (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Yay fair use (Score:4, Interesting)
Nice to see that TiVO owners can catch up to the rest of us now, but a smarter decision at the beginning would have given you that choice from the start.
if someone figures out how to take a TiVo and install a linux distro on it and a mythtv install I'll be all over buying a Tivo or two to hack, but until then. I'll keep using my networked replays.
Oh no! (Score:5, Funny)
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Hi there, Lumpy! (Score:2)
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Re:Yay fair use (Score:5, Insightful)
Ads: Barely visible. They either appear on the bottom of the Now Playing screen, in which case they're optional, or it takes up an eighth of the screen during the commercial for the product being shown. In essence, the latter are only visible in the short time while you're fast-forwarding, showing you a stationary ad for a couple seconds. Those ads are exceedingly rare anyway. (I saw one for the Wii yesterday during primetime, but that's the first I've seen in weeks.)
It seems to me that many people on Slashdot, the Richard Stallman crowd especially, act like Tivo is most evil company on the planet for a few very minor faults (especially when it comes to DRM). In reality, I like Tivo because while they do pay lip service to the likes of the RIAA and the MPAA, it is only lip service. They didn't actually remove the commerical-skip feature: they just put in an easy workaround to get it. They included DRM to prevent themselves from getting sued, but it is extremely minimal DRM that is easily circumvented by the owner of the Tivo with a single DirectShow filter. If ReplayTV had paid lip service, it might still be around.
In fact, Tivo even does things that most Slashdotters would applaud, but are villainized nonetheless. Though they have a few patents, a lot of it is for innovative hardware. They aren't like some of the patent-whores who patent things invented fifteen years ago: they basically co-invented the DVR, and made a damn good one. They even use Linux and released their code under the GPL. And yet, we still hear Stallman complaining about the fact that the Tivo hardware locks you out from changing the software. What he (and many others) apparently miss is that when you buy a Tivo, you're not buying a general purpose computer: you're buying a DVR. I mean, God forbid that they prevent users from running them out of business by buying the hardware for far less than it costs Tivo to make it and loading MythTV onto it. (Yes, Tivo subsidizes the cost of the hardware, but only because you are agreeing to pay for the service.)
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It's really quite nice being able to completely power down the MythTV box that sits in my living room. If I do the same to my Tivo, not only does stuff not get recorded but I will have to re-enter that stupid hack to get my 30-second skip back again.
That's not even getting into
Re:4 tivos = $6/month on directv (Score:2, Informative)
Shortly I'm going to try to get a fusion card to work in HD-OTA with a new box, but don't kid yourselves on the costs. A tivo runs 40+ watts and costs about $3/month to run. An efficient PC is likely to be double that, at best. (the older CPUs - perhaps we're talking Athlons - burn 90-100 watts on their own.) The older machine will also need a new hard drive for the storage needs, esp for the HD crowd. Add another
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Are you saying that if you "completely power down the MythTV box" it somehow continues to record your shows? Are you talking about your master backend machine or a remote frontend? If you're talking about a frontend-only machine, that really isn't the same a
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TiVo's don't have a power switch. The closest you get is putting it in Standby mode which stops video and audio output. The unit is still on and still records shows and LiveTV. At least, that's true for the sta
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Of course, it has it's downside. You can't remotely log in and schedule programs while it's sleeping, and you can get screwed in the times where the schedule changes suddenly.
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It probably doesn't. The usual trick is to use nvram-wakeup to edit the onboard CMOS RAM and set the wakeup time that way...
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I DO like my Tivo, but it is showing it's age. It's slow, and the feature you mention as "commercial skip" isn't (it's a 30 second skip.) I also want the ability to get programs off it (which I'll probably add a cache+net card to do on the S1.) At this point, after using tivo for about 5 years now, I want more. I want more flexibility, speed, features (play MP3's, photos, etc.) and storage. The Tivo has served me well, but it's
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I retired my Series 1 early this year for the same reasons that you mention -- it was getting slow and didn't do everything else that I wanted it to do. So I built my MythTV box where it lives in its closet happily. For front ends, I use Xboxes. For non-HDTV, they're perfect. You can either install Xebian and the MythTV front end (sloooow) or just use XBMC with the XBMXMythTV script. Works well for my purposes.
Given that, I miss some features from my Tivo. P
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That's not commercial skip. That's 30-second skip.
ReplayTV's commercial skip, like MythTV's commercial skip, figures out what portions of the recorded show are commercials and then automagically skips them on playback. Certain VCR's (I think JVC) had similar functionality, just not as nice since fast-forwarding tape is a lot clunkier than seeking on a file.
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After it figures out the opening credits for the show from start time, anything that was a cut away and lasts less than 62s is a commercial, and doesn't get shown.
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They have become Microsoftian in that they think they can charge out the butt for inferior service.
TiVo2Go on a Mac? No. Sorry. They'll promise they're working on it for a few years, but it'll take (what will likely be touted as illegal) hacking/cracking to even SLIGHTLY level the field.
All the while, I have my tivo hooked to my network and am therefore not using their dialup lines, (nor could I with voip)
So I'm paying the same price as people using more of their services.
All I get to
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The "Richard Stallman crowd" doesn't like TiVo because it violates the spirit of the GPL (although unfortunately not the letter, which is what version 3 is for) by stopping modified code from running. The GPL is not just about being able to see the source code and saying "oh, gee, that's nice;" it's about being abl
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if someone figures out how to take a TiVo and install a linux distro on it and a mythtv install
I believe that is called a "PC", you can buy them, or do like I do and just buy the parts you need and build it.
Possibility for series3 HD Tivo? (Score:4, Interesting)
So can anyone tell me if this actually brightens the prospects of being able to use a series 3 HD Tivo to record HD shows and then archive them offline for storage? I did RTFA but the jargon about headers and address bytes and whatnot got a little heavy for me.
Re:Possibility for series3 HD Tivo? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Possibility for series3 HD Tivo? (Score:5, Informative)
For getting video off a Series 3, I worry that it will take an external drive (once they enable THAT) and then get the files that way.
I say all this as a Series 3 owner who, really, doesn't have a ton of use for extracting video.
In short: Series 3 need not apply.
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You've already paid for an expensive HD TV and the extra charges for the HD channels.
Now you are going to cry over the cost of the HD Tivo?
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Infact, when stacked up next to a nice progressive DVD those HD channels aren't that hot anyways. Even when not compared to good DVD's in a side by side comparison those HD channels aren't that impressive.
Many people don't have t
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If it's good HD, that is just not true. Sure, for poorly encoded, or lower bit-rate transcoded stuff that may be so, but check out PBS-HD and tell me it's not better.
-Ted
i've been copying files for a while off mine (Score:2, Insightful)
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No it hasn't. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:No it hasn't. (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember what Bruce says kids: In the classic encryption scenerio, A(lice) encrypts her message to B(ob) to protect it from C(harles). With DRM, Bob and Charles are the same person!
Re:No it hasn't. (Score:4, Informative)
This defeats TiVO's DRM that was used to prevent Linux and Mac users from watching shows on their PC.
Please stop replying if you have no idea what you're talking about.
Re:No it hasn't. (Score:5, Interesting)
The key is produced through a (previously) unknown tranformation involving the MAK. Since the MAK is published, as well as the cipher, as well as the protocol.
I don't know what the intent of Tivo's DRM was, and I strongly suspect you don't either.
The DRM as implemented couldn't do what you say it was intended to do- people regularly rip from their tivo and show the results to people who don't have the MAK.
Its a wonderful piece of reverse engineering, but if you're nitpicking that people didn't break the turing cipher, I've got news for you: Nobody had to. They broke the method of creating the key.
DMCA? (Score:5, Interesting)
The limitations on Tivo are copy protections put in place by a third party, not the owner. (I can still record the same programs on my betamax with no trouble.) Have I missed something?
Re:DMCA? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:DMCA? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:DMCA? (Score:5, Informative)
'Course, unless you run Linux but have never watched a DVD, you've pretty much already opened that door.
IANAL, but while I'm sure you could argue either way, I'm pretty sure that the better argument is that the DMCA is intended to allow non-owners to add protection, as TiVo is here, for exactly the sort of things TiVo is doing.
Re:DMCA? (Score:5, Funny)
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You'll have to take that up with Congress and the Supreme Court.
cfulmer's sibling to my post is a much more interesting counterpoint.
A further interesting point is that while TiVo may not have directly contracted with the media companies (and maybe they did, I just don't remember and if they do have a formal contract none of my internet searches could find it), they clearly added this protection to placate
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Is it? We're not talking about music or (new) movies, we're talking about things that are being aired on TV. Every once in a while I'll miss an episode of one of my favorite shows and torrent it. A case point: The TV show Day Break is airing the entire series during a 12 week period. No reruns, no option to buy on iTunes, and if you miss an episode, there's no legit way to catch up - so it's either torrent it, continue on in confusion, or forge
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I'm not tryin
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On the other, if it meant what acklenx wished it would say nothing. So the courts would say that this excludes that meaning and the other must be what was meant - making it unabmiguous.
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There's every reason to believe dvdcss (and this software) is perfectly legal under the DMCA, as it falls under "interoperability":
`(3) The information acquired through the acts permitted under paragraph (1), and the means permitted under paragraph (2), may be made available to others if the person referred to in paragraph (1) or (2), as the case may be, provides such information or means solely for the p
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Ok.
Re:DMCA? (Score:4, Interesting)
'a technological measure "effectively controls access to a work" if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.'
(that's 17 U.S.C. 1201(a)(3)(B)). Under your reading, where it says "with the authority of the copyright owner," that means that the copyright owner has to approve the encryption being put in place. Since I don't think Tivo has agreements with all the media companies, I don't think this applies. Also, I don't think Tivo adds anything to the media, so it doesn't have any copyright in it. So, under this section, you're right.
But, there's another section, 17 U.S.C. 1201(b) which says that you cannot traffic in something that circumvents "a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof." And, here, it does that if it "prevents, restricts, or otherwise limits the exercise of a right of a copyright owner under this title." That's a bit odd to read -- the expression "a right of a copyright owner" is a term of art which basically means "the things only copyright owners can do." The end result is that you cannot traffic in circumvention devices, even if they circumvent something that was not put there with the agreement of the copyright owner, so long as it keeps you from doing something that only the copyright owner can do (i.e. *copying*).
I think that the end result of this odd situation is that people can circumvent the encryption on the Tivo, but can't provide a tool for others to do the same thing.
[See a lawyer before you rely on this.]
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Not if it's technology to bypass security measures in order to achieve interoperability [hellerehrman.com].
Granted, there's been a few conflicting precedents (DeCSS/libdvdcss) but I think it's well within consumer's rights to watch Tivo-recorded video on whatever OS they darn well please. And on that topic . . . why doesn't Tivo already have a Linux client? It's the native OS on the box itself, after all . . . then again . . . Tivo hasn't shown itself to be particularly supportive of the community that created the base so
Cool, but not *too* cool. (Score:5, Interesting)
The crucial thing here is that TiVo took a business decision not to support Mac/Linux users. They can't really complain when those users decide to support themselves, giving themselves the same abilities that TiVo provide to Windows users...
Personally I think this is the right balance - my TiVo has been sitting in a corner since I moved house - the new cable box does everything TiVo did, and does it in HD (although the interface sucks a bit. Bad comcast). With this though, I can see a new lease of life for the TiVo
Simon
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Sorry, but I've got to call you on that one. I'm a Mac user and I love my Tivo (I've now got a Series 3). I can't extract video because I have the S3, but I don't have much desire to any way.
That said...
That's false. People will want the functionality, but TiVo certainly reserves the right to complain.
That's like buying a little Ford Focus a
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Yes... and this crack is like buying a Focus, then putting a bigger engine in it so you can tow 3000 lbs. You aren't suggesting that a Focus owner doesn't have the right to do that, are you?
On a slightly related topic... (Score:2)
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The appeal of the Tivo is it's simplicity and ease of use. Yes, I can build my own, but it will cost far more than the cost of the tivo and monthly (or lifetime) service. Plus a home grown solution will tend to require never ending tweaks to keep it running.
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Specifying everything by time and channel is perfectly okay by me... it's what I always did with a VCR, after all. But I'd for sure want the ability to either burn a DVD or at least transfer the content to a computer so I can burn it to DVD from there for permanen
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Big frakin' deal. (Score:2)
I don't understand why someone would go through the effort of downloading movies from their TiVo to watch on a PC.
- Basic TiVo quality isn't so hot
- The TV shows that I record in high-quality usually exist on purchasable DVD's anyway
- Who ever watch movies more than once or twice? Thanks to Netflix, there is a never ending list of good movies that I've never seen
I don't see all the fuss. TiVo is fine, the DRM is fine. TiVo records disposable media, and media worth hanging onto is worth p
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So see? You made a liar of yourself: You _CAN_ understand why someone would download from their tivo to watch on their TV.
I like putting cartoons on DVD so my kid can watch something on long car rides. Before today, this meant using wine a
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Basically, if you have a reaso
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How far does this hobby extend, precisely?
- Do you attend Susan Sarandon press conferences?
- How many toasters do you own?
- Wheelchairs?
- Fishnet stockings?
Who said anything about watching on a PC? (Score:2)
I don't understand why someone would go through the effort of downloading movies from their TiVo to watch on a PC.
I'd imagine most people wouldn't use the functionality for this. It's a LOT more usefull for burning the movies to a DVD and watching it on your DVD player connected to your TV though. I'm sure there's a LOT of people that'd like to keep a few seasons of a TV show on DVD that they recorded.
You could also burn something to DVD and give it to your friend or family to watch. Ever had someone ask
InterTiVoNet (Score:2)
F***in' A! (Score:2)
Re:Why TiVo when you can MythTV? (Score:5, Informative)
I did, and I wasn't. It was a giant pain in the a** to set up and configure, it didn't work reliably, and the cost for hardware was way higher than buying a TiVo.
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I recently spec'ed out a MythTV box with an 80gb hard drive and hardware MPEG encoding and a nice media center case for $350 shipped from NewEgg. A pretty good deal, I'd say, and it can actually be used for other things than just watching TV (it's got an Athlon 64, 512 mb RAM, and NVidia GeForce 6150 graphics).
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Some of us have already done the 2 tuners thing with S1 Tivos.
What hardware? (Score:2)
I've been interested for a while in building a MythTV STB, but I've just been put off by the hardware issues. It seems like every video input card has some little niggling issue that might or might not make it work or break
A while ago, I wa
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I've got the same card...but, info to set it up is a bit sketchy. Can you tell me what all kernel options (in kernel or modules) need to be set to use this? Also, which kernel? I'm trying a vanilla one.
Can you post what is needed, or post a link?
I was wanting to also turn this box into a myth box, but, had heard that myth with the HD card and the PVR-150/250 cards won't work together...any info there?
Thanks in advance...
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Every few months someone claims to be able to make a better TiVo using MythTV for the same price. But invariably when one goes to do it, they find it costs twice as much as claimed. No box for $350 is going to sit quietly in your entertainment center; it will be a PC-shaped box with a loud fan. And, no, you can't do other things with it besides MythTV; it's in your entertainment
Re:Why TiVo when you can MythTV? (Score:5, Informative)
However, I take issue with "didn't work reliably" and "cost was higher than a tivo."
My own MythTV works flawlessly, using a donated PIII-750 (cost: $0) for the server, and a Hauppauge 150 (cost: $60) for the tuner/encoder. There are no monthly fees. If you can show me a TiVo with lifetime subscription for $60, I'll be amazed. And tell my friends to buy it.
My MythTV also has features that TiVo will never have -- like the ability to automatically detect and skip commercials, the ability to select programs to automatically burn to DVD, and support for enough tuners to simultaneously record everything on every channel (well, in theory... I'd love to see the hardware for that!).
I like the TiVo. It's easy to use. But I like my MythTV a lot more. And I don't have to worry about what stupid decisions TiVo corporate might make -- like encrypting my videos so only I can watch them, support for the "Broadcast" flag, and wasting my storage space with advertisements.
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Also, just one tuner? A DVR with just one tuner is nothing more than a digital VCR and that is not even in the same genus as a dual tuner system (you can't swap between channels, record one thing and watch something else).
I am half quibbling and half disagreei
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Although I'm not sure what your point is here, I guess I'll go with it. Just because you griped enough to DirecTV and didn't get charged for a year doesn't make it free to you either. Be sure to count the time on the phone with them, the downtime without the service, and the general BS that you have to put up with when speaking w/ customer service.
There's that and there's the time it cost you to put
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That's a pretty stupid argument to start making, since you're advocating building a MythTV box, which almost certainly takes a Hell of a lot more time. I'm not trying to disagree with you; I think MythTV is better too. I'm just saying quit while you're ahead.
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Me, I pay a $5/mo receiver fee as part of my DirecTV service (it's just like cable but they charge you per TV). So unless you are doing this completely free via OTA, you're paying monthly fees too.
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Not everone gets a DVR with their TV service. My parents who have Comcast analog cable don't, for example.
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Add that into the computation and Tivo doesn't have such a great advantage anymore.
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I already had another cable line running into my computer room. So I bought a Hauppauge card for ~$65 and SageTV for about the same. Really easy to setup, and cost about as much as 6 months of TiVo.
I bought a DVD-R/W DL burner for ~$35, and some apps for cutting out commercials, none of which would have been possible with TiVo. And I don't have to
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I didn't have a computer that was capable of running MythTV (and still don't), and when I priced the parts needed to build one, I was looking at over $1000 plus an appreciable amount of labor to build a machine that was as capable as a TiVO box.
It's been some years, so I really don't know if the math works out the same anymore, but at least in my case I really don't think it's a wonder at all that I chose t
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Since you can no longer buy lifetime subscriptions, no the math doesn't work out the same anymore.
http://www.tivo.com/2.0.plans.step.1.asp [tivo.com]
And further, the price for myth compatible hardware is way down since then.
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$500 for a TiVO w/ Lifetime subscription is not a bad price, but let me break down my MythTV box.
Total: $534
I happen to have Charter HD cable
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How did you manage to have so much trouble with the lameness filter?
Here's a tip: select "HTML formatted" and remove all the spaces between the tags.
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Couple of points:
Re:Why TiVo when you can MythTV? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why post on-topic when you can blatantly go off-topic and get modded up for it? This is a nuts and bolts Tivo article. It's not about considering one DVR solution over another. No other solution is even on the table here. I'm not the biggest fan of Tivo but I'm getting a bit sick of these folks who feels some sort of duty to shove in a reference to MythTV every time Tivo is mentioned. I for one won't be amazed by links about MythTV but I can't read a single DVR article that doesn't have some wonky poster extolling the virtues of MythTV. We get it. We know. Stick to the topic.
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It's perfectly relevant to the discussion. After all, the discussion centers on an inconvenient aspect of TiVo. The assertion is made that by using MythTV, you avoid that inconvenience altogether. I find that interesting, in the context of the discussion.
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A handful of lines of shell script, MPlayer, and a filemanager beats MythTV hands down.
I have no idea if Freevo has the same problems... last time I checked the inital setup was rather tricky and poorly documented, and I wasn't all that determined.