Vista to Include Stepped up Anti-Piracy Measures 549
snuffin writes to tell us the Washington Post is reporting that Microsoft announced stepped up anti-piracy measures being implemented in their latest operating system, Vista. From the article: "If a legitimate copy is not bought within 30 days, the system will curtail functionality much further by restricting users to just the Web browser for an hour at a time, said Thomas Lindeman, Microsoft senior product manager." Ars Technica also has coverage available on this new development.
Guys, just don't buy/download Vista (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Guys, just don't buy/download Vista (Score:4, Insightful)
How much did Steve Jobs pay to bribe MS execs? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How much did Steve Jobs pay to bribe MS execs? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:How much did Steve Jobs pay to bribe MS execs? (Score:5, Informative)
You make it sound like people bought new machines that could not run the latest OS. A machine that cost $1500 back in 2000, no it can't run a 2005/2006 release of an OS. My G4 mac is from 2002 and it runs the latest Mac OS just fine and will also run Leopard just fine when it comes out next year. After that, well, that is up in the air but only if they cut off PowerPC support. Besides, by then it will be hopelessly obselete anyway. A computer I bought NOW would probably run the next 5 major releases of OS X... easy. And it would cost a lot less than this thing did back in 2002.
Also the iMac models you reference have not been sold for almost four years. It makes me wonder how long you have been out of circulation.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't believe this phooey.
My PowerMac G4 (Codename: "Yikes!") from 1999 (it is 7 years young this month!) is happily running Panther, and will run Tiger as soon as I put a DVD drive in it (this weekend). I paid $1500 for it and I think it was the best decision that I ever made -- it was my declaration to the world that MS operating systems were not welcome in my home... I had more important things to do than reinstall the OS every time s
Re:How much did Steve Jobs pay to bribe MS execs? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How much did Steve Jobs pay to bribe MS execs? (Score:4, Interesting)
This is GREAT news! (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously, this is wonderful news! The more Microsoft screws its customers, the more likely they will be to seek out alternative solutions.
I've used GNU/Linux off and on for a few years for various and sundry purposes. Three weeks or so ago, I finally sat down, figured out what I need--and don't need!--from Windows, and made the switch completely. I installed Ubuntu, and so far, it's been relatively painless. For every program I thought I couldn't live without, I've found several that work just as well or better. It's got its quirks, but Windows doesn't, right? And thanks to Cedega, I'm still even playing City of Heroes. :-)
So personally, I hope they lock it down even more. I hope they develop uncrackable locks, and charge people out the wazoo for even thinking about booting up their computers that run Vista. I hope they make it so hard and painful to run software that people have no choice but to switch. For all of the Microsoft-bashers out there, it's a dream come true!
I also hope that they do manage to completely lock out all pirates of the OS. That way, when the 90% of the real world that can't afford Windows all start using an OS like GNU/Linux, its market share will pretty much relegate Windows to that quaint little OS that used to be popular before everyone realized that they could get a lot more without even having to pay for it!
On a related note, a buddy of mine just got a new job and he asked if he could use Linux on his workstation instead of Windows. They said, "As long as you can do your job, we don't care what you use." As more and more people do this, and companies realize that there is productive life after Windows and how much money they can save and how many problems they can avoid by moving out of the room with the 800-pound gorilla in it, I think you'll see things start to change dramatically for the better.
Now, if only they could develop uncrackable DRM that screws up everyone's players. Oh, wait, Sony's already done it! YAY!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Lemme know how that works out for you.
Re:Guys, just don't buy/download Vista (Score:4, Informative)
The best part is that I called the microsoft automatic hotline and spent 15 minutes playing along with the cheerful computer prompting me. "Great! You are almost there! Now read me the bazillion numbers in group five". Wonderful, now group six! It happilly gave me a reactivation key to type in manually, but vista refused to take it. I double checked the number and gave up at that point.
Oh, and since I had installed firefox as the default browser, not even the "browse the web" feature worked right! Wonderful! If this "Release Candidate" is at all indicative of the final product, it is going to drive people to Macs in droves!
-Tom
Re: (Score:3)
They Had Better (Score:5, Insightful)
It would only make sense that they force user security down our throats at the time of installation. I don't agree with this or condone it, of course. It is also quite naïve of them to think that they can win the cat n' mouse game of license control with the hackers.
Just one more reason to stick with XP for those applications that only run on Windows. I'll buy in around SP5. I hope this keeps the hackers busy so they don't have free time to dream up mythical Firefox bugs.
Re:They Had Better (Score:5, Funny)
Cool! That'll saves me having to download a full OS when the crack comes out.
Re:They Had Better (Score:4, Funny)
If you need to crack it, you don't have a legal copy. If you don't have to download it, you bought a legal copy.
One can only assume that Microsoft's logic here is to encourage would-be pirates to at least buy the cheapest version, then crack their way up to Ultimate Deluxe Vista Supreme Meat Lover's Edition.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:They Had Better (Score:5, Informative)
Re:They Had Better (Score:5, Insightful)
That CD requiring trick doesn't work if you have 2 drives either. It has to be in the drive that it was installed from.
I downloaded all the NO-CD cracks for all my games/Flight Sims and that increased the enjoyability factor.
I miss the gaming but I think the CD hassle makes it not miss so much. Last game I bought was UT2003 and that required the CD to play so I downloaded the cracked version.
The first UT stopped requiring the CD after a certain patch level and that really made it fun.
Re:They Had Better (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Your XP DRM made installing Windows such a pain in the ass that this maybe not so average geek finds it way too annoying to ever buy another copy.
Congratulations. DRM (and the fact that you no longer make OSes backward compatible) lost you a customer you've had for 25 years.
Slashdot Error (Score:5, Funny)
How fitting... Guess my hour is up!
the system will curtail functionality (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:the system will curtail functionality (Score:5, Interesting)
The ultimate DDOS: A worm that wanders random botnets of compromised XP and Vista boxen, phoning home with fake "Authenticate key 000001, 000002, 000003..." messages from all around teh Intarweb.
One month later, Vista boxen all around the planet start to fall over for no apparent reason.
(Historical precedent: Anyone who's ever bought a retail box with a CD key that was already revoked before the box was shipped, because teh warez d00dz were using keygens that mapped onto the set of actual, legitimate keys.)
Worm idea (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:the system will curtail functionality (Score:5, Interesting)
Had that happen to me back in the day when I bought a copy of Tribes 2 [wikipedia.org]. Unwrapped the box, popped in the CD, and bam: "This CD-Key is already in use. Please enter a valid key" or something to that effect. I ended up having to make a photocopy of the UPC and CD-Key sticker, and fax those to Sierra. Because of course, everyone has a copier and fax lying around their house.
It eventually got resolved, but man was I pissed about spending $50 only to be called a pirate and locked out of my own game. Anyone remember the days when Sierra wasn't a worthless hack of a brand?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
That seems to explain all the WGA false positives, then...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Time to file this away under "useful knowledge". Step 1: Buy game. Step 2: copy disc, install game, use key. Step 3: Return game. Step 4: Now I have two keys!
Genuine Advantage is evil (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Totally agree, a Volume License Key is no defense against the WGA... as this story [theregister.co.uk] shows. Microsoft even admit they have problems [microsoft.com].
The department of education here in NZ did a deal with microsoft so they basically have a country-wide enterprise agreement with MS, where the schools gets all the software free...
My father is responsible for administering the "computer lab" at the local intermediate school, and they recently got 20 brand spanking new machines, all with VLK's... 1 of these brand new machi
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Speaking as a M$ shareholder, I therefore consider XP's DRM/activation crap detrimental to my investment, and an irresponsible behaviour on the part of M$.
Re:the system will curtail functionality (Score:4, Informative)
Oh... Perfect. (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Have you actually used this "evil, evil" Vista? I consider myself to be in-the-know, and I have no problems with using Windows, whatsoever. I hope that you're warning people of the impending compatibility issues that they'll likely have upon switching to Ubuntu. And I sincerely hope that you're not suggesting Ubuntu to non-in-the-know laptop users who enjoy having wireless capabilities...
Unless you're planning to assist each and every person whom you recommended Ubuntu to in configuring such things...
Re: (Score:2)
Windows XP sp 2 loses support 5 years after its release date OR 2 years after its predecessors release. Whichever is longer. The end of life policy is right here. [microsoft.com]
I'm no fanboi, but that statement isn't accurate.
So what? (Score:4, Funny)
As everyone at Microsoft knows, (or should have already figured out), everyone has too much of a life to spend more than an hour a day on the internet. ;-)
Only use the web browser for an hour at a time (Score:5, Funny)
question I saw somewhere else (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
I think we all know the answer to that question.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, not everyone gets free copies of Windows. I suspect a lot of home users got 'free' (i.e. pirated) copies from a friend, and
Re:question I saw somewhere else (Score:5, Insightful)
Only geeks who build their own computers need to buy an OS. Everyone else gets it for "free".
Yet another crisis (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
cracked! (Score:2)
That's about how long it would take me to find and download a crack
Re:cracked! (Score:5, Insightful)
That's about how long it will take me to download Linux. As I said in this [slashdot.org] post about WGA, I'm no longer interested in playing MSFT's games. If I didn't have to have a Windows PC at home for my wife to do her job, I wouldn't be using Windows at all.
I *despise* Linux on the desktop but I'm not about to use a crack that could be open me to more attacks than using the vanilla MSFT OS, have to deal with MSFT, and pay the crazy price point that they want for Vista. Nevermind the fact that my current machines will probably run the OS like shit.
I'll suffer with OS X (which I also despise as a desktop OS), Linux, and my current interation of XP (heavily firewalled).
It's unfortunate that this will do nothing but piss people off. But will that change anything? Nope.
Possible backlash? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
And there is the obvious weakness.
Are you kidding me (Score:5, Insightful)
With an OS like this who needs Virii? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Also, after trying the Vista betas the first thing I disabled every single time was UAC.. I strongly suspect a lot of people will do the same, just to get rid of the annoying UAC window popups for the most menial of things.
For example, just a couple of days ago one of my bosses at work brought his home machine in complaining that it wouldn't boot etc.
Turns out, even though A
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Come on, it's a standard latin plural! Didn't you learn that in school?
One virus, two virii, three viriii, four viriv, five virv...
This will get cracked. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This will get cracked. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
My guess is you probably liked some of the few useful features (wireless, PPPoE, faster booting) or the useless, "bling" features, and in the end you upgraded after all. Or you got a new PC and you couldn't be arsed to demand one without XP (and the microsoft tax) installed.
So, if that's why it's likely you'll repeat
Re: (Score:2)
It will include more... (Score:2)
Perhaps the interesting comment isn't that there will be anti-piracy measures, but how the anti-piracy measures will be deployed. To point, what is the technology behind this statement: The company also said it has added more sophisticated technology for monitoring whether a system is pirated.
"If you're a pirate, we're not going to give you all the functionality!" Um, OK. This isn't really news.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
the pirates often have *more*
functionality.
MS Calls the Shots on Your License Keys? (Score:5, Insightful)
Unlike Windows XP, Vista will monitor the activation status of the computer even after the initial 30-day period. If the technology later decides that a key is no longer valid, through either a software update or via some other means, it will give the user another 30-day period to rectify the situation.
So, in other words, MS has every right to revoke your license for whatever reason they desire? Am I the only one who finds this disturbing?
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Heard this before? (Score:4, Insightful)
"Oh, but this one will stop pirates."
"Oh, but this one will be much more secure."
"Yes, we'll play more nicely with the standards."
Frankly? I hope they make the anti-piracy measures 100% effective. More people might be pushed over the tipping point, and give Linux a try.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Cracks, XP, Linux, and gaming... (Score:2)
1) Their system is cracked. Then everything is as before and piracy runs rampant to the benefit of MS's monopoly.
2) Their system is not cracked, in which case people just stick with (cracked) XP for years to come. When they are finally forced to upgrade (by artificial planned obsoletion, of course), they either wait for a crack to be made (go to option 1) or finally dump Windows.
But I know people who will never pay for software. My hope is that by that time (>5 years from
Announcement (Score:5, Informative)
Works for me, if... (Score:2)
a) Lets me do offline authentication in a non-cumbersome manner.
b) Lets me do (a) for, say, an officeful of machines... again in a non-cumbersome manner
c) Is accurate, and doesn't decide to accuse me (or my users) of pirating a copy that's actually legit
d) Doesn't require me to call microsoft, and either sit on hold, talk to some guy with a thick foreign accent, or talk to a bloody voice-agent...
e) For corporate, see (d), but I never want this to
I hope it works better than WGA (Score:5, Informative)
My daughters have a computer direct from Dell. The hard drive went out. When I reinstalled Windows XP Pro on it using the activation code on the sticker, Activation flagged it as counterfeit. I had to call Microsoft and go through a long and complex process before I could get to a human who let me activate. Guess what, the new (refurbished) drive from Dell went out and I had to go through the whole process again. This time they asked some rather pointed questions, but eventually let me Activate.
I have told all of my clients *not* to accept the license agreement for the WGA Notification Tool. Too bad they won't have that option when Vista comes out.
Microsoft had better get its house in order with this WGA stuff or expect a huge class action suit. My understanding is that it is illegal to tell people that they owe you money when they do not.
A Genuine Advantage ? (Score:2)
I really don't think it will make a dent in MS's real piracy problem, anyway, which is CD manufacturing operations in places like Russia and China, not penny-ante copying by Unc
Correct me if I am wrong- (Score:2)
I wonder how they are going to curtail that, seeing as how IE is so tightly integrated with the rest of the OS?
Re: (Score:2)
Come on, people (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft is spending hundreds of millions of dollars on development and marketing of Vista, so it is only fair to ensure that piracy isn't as ongoing as it is today.
After all, it's your free choice to select from many other fully functional operating systems if you refuse to use Vista. Or even stick to a fully functional Windows XP.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Come on, people (Score:5, Insightful)
M$ would be cutting you off because they think you didn't pay. And software never has bugs, right? So I guess you wouldn't mind some goon at Wal*Mart tackling you, handing you over to the local Wal*Mart detention center and incarcerating you (all on their unquestioned authority) all because they mistakenly think you shoplifted?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Come on, people (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Come on, people (Score:5, Insightful)
The current version of their code for checking this, in the form of WGA, is notorious for giving false positives on large numbers of legitimate boxes, causing the annoyware to kick in. Microsoft are fully aware of this, to the point where they have written a piece of software which can detect that it is happening - they have not fixed the problem, their solution is for you to reinstall Windows. Microsoft are saying that in Vista, it won't just annoy you, it will lock down your computer. We have absolutely no reason to expect the Vista version to be any more reliable than the current one.
We are talking here about a deliberately induced, box-crippling bug as an additional feature of something that already does not work properly. It's not hard to see why people are complaining, if you look.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to working on the plans to migrate the desktops away from Windows. When this disaster is forced onto the market, I'm going to need them.
and the spiteful answer: (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do I wish them so much ill, do you ask? Because I've probably bought around 6-8 copies of Windows that I will NEVER use. I was FORCED to buy them due to Microsoft's predatory marketing practices, which forbid all of the major OEMs (which have the best prices by far--even for desktops, nowadays it's usually significantly cheaper to wait for a good Dell deal than to build from scratch) from selling desktops and laptops without a copy of Windows.
Our justice system has failed us. They convicted MS of monopolistic practices and utterly failed to do anything about it, and I've indirectly paid hundreds of dollars in license fees I am NOT using (I use Linux exclusively, except for a single gaming box.) They include BULLSHIT, UNENFORCABLE crap like "you may not resell this OEM copy", even though this clearly violates the first sale doctrine, and yet shitheads like eBay go along with it and won't let you sell your OEM copies of Windows. And it gets even better--now many OEMs (like Dell) don't give you any reinstallation CDs--you don't even have the option to make your own, anymore. So, even if I did use Windows, I'd be forced to use a pirated copy when it comes time to reinstall windows (and don't give me that "it's stable now!" crap. I have XP and while it's lightyears ahead of 9x, you most certainly can NOT use it regularly for YEARS without experiencing significant slowdowns and other problems, often unresolvable by malware removal programs.)
So, in conclusion: fuck Microsoft. They've stolen hundreds of dollars from me personally (and God knows how much nationally or worldwide), so don't expect me play fair if and when I'm ever forced to use Vista in the future.
What about reverse piracy? (Score:5, Interesting)
Getting the actual windows refund is a lot harder now than it used to be. And with microsoft strong arming the industry to preload machines with Windows, I'm not sure why they are worried about piracy. If you bought a computer it probably has a legitimate copy of Windows on it (whether you want it or not). or am I wrong here?
Also, Vista isn't out yet? Will it support Duke Nukem Forever?
legal quagmire (I hope) (Score:4, Interesting)
I certainly hope that some big company gets its IT systems disabled by a bug in the restriction management and sues MS to hell and back. I know a few companies who'll suffer tremendous losses if their entire IT is down for a day or two.
Re:legal quagmire (I hope) (Score:4, Funny)
Careful with that terr'ist, talk . . . you might just find yourself renditioned.
Great! More Linux Users! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Great! More Linux Users! (Score:5, Funny)
Then they discover that copies are free marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess they are following the trend and missing the obvious.
For economic reasons, there is a maximum amount that people are willing to spend on software licences.
If you crack down on people making copies, that does not mean that they all rush out and pay for a new copy.
Some stick with what they have, some switch to Linux or ReactOS (eventually).
The copies served as free marketing. Some would get hooked and eventually buy a copy.
This is similar to music. Cassette/CD/MP3 copying did not kill buying music, it added to demand.
Too much copy-protection, drm and controls will not increase demand, and may actually decrease demand.
Extortion (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Maybe because you volunteer for this? (Score:5, Insightful)
except the boss.
Vista Will Be The Last (Score:3, Insightful)
I think Vista will be the last OS Microsoft ever puts out.
Once Google releases an OS, it's over for Microsoft.
Re:Vista Will Be The Last (Score:4, Informative)
Now that they'll have established the infrastructure needed to govern a subscription OS, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Microsoft OS will be rented year-to-year, in its consumer versions, with a mandatory and automatic upgrade if you renew once its successor is released. Product "end-of-life" will be a lot more concrete...
I mean, they've been openly pursuing software-as-service, and they've built the infrastructure to extend that to the OS.
Child Net Monitoring for Free (Score:4, Funny)
I don't see the problem here.
Will weaken users (Score:5, Insightful)
Questions for me remain about how they will determine the illegal nature of the software. How often will they check. Looking back at their genuine advantage notification program it was a piece of shit that only the lowest form of life would have though up and/or sanctioned. That's my opinion. Your's may vary. It was deceptive in how they put it on and it was deceptive in what they were collecting and how they were operating. It also opened up the door for alot of other companies to copy Microsoft, hence you might have 10-20 different programs monitoring your computer software use and then reporting back to their servers. Microsoft is no more entitled to put their crap on my computer than any other software vendor is so that just opens a pandora's box. Give them license to do it and you give license to every other software vendor to do the same thing.
Microsoft isn't particularly bright. 40% of those identified as invalid were actually valid. How many of the Vista copies will be considered invalid and still be valid?
What Microsoft seems to forget is that there is no compelling reason to purchase or upgrade to Vista. XP is a solid OS which meets the requirements of the vast majority of the world's users. If Vista had some die for feature or they had some features that were critical or even compelling in some minor way maybe most people would be justified in opening their computers up to Microsoft's heavy handedness. The new version of the OS just has nothing of any real value for the average user to justify the exceptionally high cost of the software (even in upgrade), the enormous cost in hardware upgrades required, and then the repurchasing of software that is more than adequate for what we have today.
If you look at any software product that might be developed for Windows Vista you'll probably not find a single one that has any real upgrade value. What more can you do to an elephant other than feed it more and hope it grows? The beheamouth software of today doesn't need to torture our computers more in the future by adding bloat when everything is in them.
When we had the changeover from DOS to Win 3.x we had reason to upgrade. Protected mode applications, cooperative multitasking, memory management, consistent interface, etc. Everyone could learn the basics of a GUI and they'd have a chance at using any given software product that came out for the OS. When Windows 95 came out it gave us preemptive multitasking and a new interface with alot of major changes that helped in networking, and maintenance. You weren't forced to put up with any Microsoft bullshit about activation, DRM, lockouts, spyware, etc. It did have problems with the system resources, just as 98 and ME had that followed it.
2k and XP were great upgrades to the OS. Alot of existing hardware worked and worked well. It was well designed and it protected applications from crashing the whole OS. There were some seriously compelling reasons to upgrade to 95, 98, 2k, and XP. But Vista just doesn't have it. Even their security features beg the question about what will happen to XP's security once Vista is out. Will Microsoft extort our purchase of Vista by not protecting XP as well as they did Vista? It is mostly Microsoft's fault that XP has the problems they have today and by all measure the security in Vista has never been guaranteed to protect us any more. It hasn't even been hinted at. Right now Microsoft could say XP is the most secure OS on the market (whether that is true or not), just as they will say that Vista is the number one secured OS. Neither would be correct. The fact remains that if they believe it they will try to sell it.
From all that I have read people are able to hack the kernel already in Vista. T
Re: (Score:2)
The same applies to Slashdot
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Joe Muggle and his gramma and grampa don't have a choice. Not yet anyway.
Unless they buy a mac, that is. And then, they'll be at Apple's mercy.
Re: (Score:2)