A Different Kind of WGA 'Problem'

Ed Bott recently attempted to scout out the problems reported in so many horror stories floating around the net relating to Microsoft's WGA. He did experience problems, however, not the ones that you might expect. He intentionally installed a pirated copy of Windows XP to see how the process worked but was unable to get WGA to recognize his computer as pirated. From the article: "I'm reluctantly running a pirated version of Windows and can't get caught no matter how hard I try. But these same people want us to believe that the WGA software they've developed is nearly foolproof. They claim that all but "a fraction of a percent" of those 60 million people who've been denied access to Microsoft updates and downloads are guilty, guilty, guilty. Right."

A solution to your problem

I'm reluctantly running a pirated version of Windows and can't get caught no matter how hard I try.

Here you go! [bsa.org]

Re:A solution to your problem

You want this [gpl-violations.org].

BSA is for proprietary violations.

Re:A solution to your problem

You see, the BSA doesn't have a financial interest to go after GPL violators because there's a lack of monetary incentive. If any of the GPL software was owned by a multi-billion dollar company shelling out the big bucks to enforce the infringement of their IP, sure the BSA would be right after them.

Re:A solution to your problem

Maybe IBM can push some dollars their way for them to go after GPL violators.

Re:A solution to your problem

BSA are con artists: they con the software companies to pay them to protect their rights (and they don't do it). I received letters from BSA for about 6 months in 2003: one letter every two weeks, asking me to buy legal copies of the pirated software they supposed I used and they were supposed to "protect", threatening with "2 to 5 years in jail" and warning me they might come any time to inspect my software setup.

Fortunately for me:
* I did not use at that time and I do not use now unlicenced software, nor did the company I worked for at that time use unlicenced software.
* The law in my country would not put me in jail for using unlicenced software (only a fine).
* BSA do not have the right to make inspections in my country. They can log a complaint and have the police come to me.

Still, I was responsible for IT, and had to receive the letters, read them and explain to my betters what were those letters about every two weeks. I did not enjoy being threatened to be put in jail, being acused of stealing, and being taken for a full. The letters stopped arriving when I answered one of them, asked BSA to explain me why they think they have the right to do what they threatened to do, and had the word "lawyers" in that reply.

Why are they con artists ? I was in their database because my company already bought the software they claimed to "protect". BSA are lazy, at least around here: they don't look for infringers, they just pound honest people with threats in order to have something to report to their sponsors. BSA does not look for the interests of their sponsors, only for the money they pour into BSA for those "awareness campaings" etc.

Unfortunately for their sponsors,
      after my experience with BSA:
* I don't buy or recomend to the people in charge to buy software from the companies members of BSA. There is always a good enough alternative, and running the risk of getting in the spotlight of BSA is not worth the trouble.
* I still think it's lame to use "pirated" software, but I am kinda glad so many people do it, as far as the sponsors of BSA are concerned.
* I run a clean shop, free as in free speech.

Post the key!

No, I just want to confirm the article. Really.

Corporate

Its simple. Hes using the corporate VLK. Microsoft would _never_ damage its corporate customers by subjecting them to WGA. I thought it was well known that corporate versions of things (windows, symantec) are vastly superior and thusly are the most heavily pirated. Always go for a pirated corp copy over a real one. Those leet software pirates know how to do the job right, the first time.

Re:Corporate

You're wrong I think, I've seen VLK's get flagged as pirated. However, they were :) When a legit key was put in place, the warning goes away.

Re:Corporate

Yeah, it doesn't take long searching any torrent site, "keygen" site or such to find compromised VLKs, and it takes Microsoft equally little time to find same keys and blacklist them. I'm guessing many of the WGA updates are to do with blacklist updates, as well as ways of preventing DLL subversion and such.

Re:Corporate

'cept that the dll subversion trick works miracles. Almost always 0-day fix, and can be implemented without a working windows system using a small, automated Linux LiveCD (the same one I use to ghost my system once in a while).

Re:Corporate

The majority of the users WGA identifies as pirate are using corporate volume license keys.

However what might be happening

Is he might be using a legit corperate key. We have a VLK here (university) and you can just install XP on any system no problem, and it'll report as legit. They don't check vs number of license to make sure it's an exact count. So you could install it unlicensed on a personal laptop, and it'd report as legit no problems. Now however if they found tons of systems outside of the university cropping up, and saw the key on a serials board, they might invalidate it and issue us a new one.

However just installing a copy of corperate unlicensed won't do anything. It doesn't activate and there's not a hard limit check.

To really test WGA you need to do something like get a known pirate key or take a non-volume copy of XP and install it on more systems than you are allowed to.

Re:However what might be happening

I'm quite cynical on this topic because of my experiences with MSDN. Even though I've been an MSDN subscriber for a LONG time (a lot longer than I want to admit), I was treated very poorly when I received MSDN activation codes that were supposedly pirated. I had to (literally) threaten to sue (yes, Microsoft) before someone got a fire lit under their chair (to my surprise), and took care of my situation, eight weeks after my purchase, and after several people had essentially accused me of infringement even as I had sales receipts and original media in my hand.

Re:However what might be happening

RTFA, he used a key from a serials site that was marked as 2 years old. MS is apparently not keeping up with its pirateed key list

Re:However what might be happening

>To really test WGA you need to do something like get a known
>pirate key or take a non-volume copy of XP and install it on more
>systems than you are allowed to.

Nope. That's what you need to trigger it.
To test it, you take most obscure cases of license violation plus most convoluted cases of legal use.
And then as result the test shows WGA is hopelessly broken.

Re:Corporate

Try using the infamous pre-SP1 vlk that starts with FCKGW http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCKGW [wikipedia.org]

Re:Corporate

What is a "corporate version"?

I work for a university, and I have a Windows XP laptop (university property) installed using our school of engineering key (we have a site-wide license). Is that a "corporate" version? Anyway, I had not booted that laptop in Windows in a LONG while, since I had been mostly using it with another hard drive with SuSE linux installed.

Recently, I booted it, and gave my ok to its doing 18 Windows Updates (techstaff won't support my laptop unless I do the updates). After doing the updates (from my home, I am not sure if this is relevant), Windows now claims that the copy is pirated.

Since it is certainly not pirated, I decided to simply not bother with it. The fun part is that in some couple of weeks, I am going to give a talk at Microsoft with that laptop... and no, I don't plan to fix it before then!

Re:Corporate

VLA, retail, and OEM media are different. Using a VLA key on an installation done with retail media won't work.

Re:Astounding logic

The logic would follow that for every pirated copy marked as legal, someone with the legal copy is being marked as a pirate. That supposed "fraction" starts to look something like 1/2 or 3/5 or worse.

That logic doesn't really follow at all. Anyhow, in tests like these, if you want to diminish false positives, then false negatives usually increase. We should be applauding Microsoft for not being overzealous.

But then again, this is slashdot. MS never gets applause here. At most a murmur of reluctant approval.

Re:Astounding logic

Yes, the submitter is using dubious logic, which doesn't even need to be used because there's already evidence that innocents are being caught.Here's some logic for you:

1. Quite a few people have already been incorrectly accused of piracy by WGA.
2. There are pirates not being caught by WGA. If someone trying to get caught can't, what about those trying not to get caught?
3. Every computer accused of piracy is unable to recieve security updates, making it that much more likely to be hit with malware and therefore become a transmitter of such. The more transmitters, the faster the virus spreads.
4. The majority of pirates will not go out and buy Windows because of WGA. They either don't have the money or don't want to spend it. If anything they will download third-party tools that don't require WGA.
5. There is no benefit to the Windows Genuine Advantage unless their goal is to get people to purchase Windows 2 or 3 times. Come to think of it, that probably is their goal.

Re:Astounding logic

Every computer accused of piracy is unable to recieve security updates, making it that much more likely to be hit with malware and therefore become a transmitter of such. The more transmitters, the faster the virus spreads.

This is false. Machines that fail WGA cannot download OPTIONAL/NON-SECURITY RELATED updates. Security updates have been, and always will be, available for download by ANY machine regardless of its legal state.

Despite the fact that your claim has been echoed by many, many others, it remains false.

Who are the developers

When things like this come out; things like key checking for a game install and everything else that is designed to stop piracy I often wonder who wrote it?

Are the best and brightest out there the ones that get stuck with this task? I would think it'd be the interns and that developers everyone hates that get the fun task.

I've used products that had good licensing tools. Keys that you enabled online, and enabled a number of users etc. Everytime it seems like it comes out of some smaller software company with small bright teams. I'm guessing in these cases the senior level codes and maybe even the whole team got involved.

Anyone out there have expierence writing key checkers and other piracy related pieces of functionality?

Re:Who are the developers

"I've used products that had good licensing tools. Keys that you enabled online, and enabled a number of users etc."

I _hate_ crap like that. I use DriveCrypt for encryption (from securstar.de), and it has the most horrific license system I've ever had the displeasure to use. You have to activate your software and lock it to a computer, then if you want to use it on an alternative computer you have to uninstall it on the first, then enter a "deactivation" code on the website, then finally you can reactivate on the new PC. God forbid you should format one of your computers forgetting to deactive your license first. I even had a problem where a new version of the software wouldn't accept the current activation on the system. I had to uninstall the newer version, re-install the older version, uninstall it and de-activate, then install the new one again and activate it. At that point I was like "JFK!", and no, that's not a reference to Kennedy.

Lets face it: People hate activation, and for a good reason. It doesn't stop piracy. It doesn't really reduce piracy either. All it does it cause perpetual headaches to your legally licensed customers. I work on software products and was partly responsible for redesigning our software registration system, which used to also use online activation. We stripped out the 'activation' element and sales didn't drop at all, however the volume of support traffic that we had to handle due to activation issues (the largest type of support incident by far) dropped to almost nothing. Our customers were much happier people.

Secrets to succesful system: 1) Make a good product, 2) Don't extort your customers, 3) Make the registration process simple.

An example of a good registration system: I recently bought Sonar 5 from Cakewalk. It came with a serial code in the DVD sleave, which you punch into Cakewalks' website in exchange for a registration code that can be used perpetually. That's it. Simple. Cakewalk get their registration info, you get to use the software you just paid hundreds of dollars for as you want. Sure, there is an element of trust involved in that, but hey, you just paid a few hundred bucks. Maybe they ought to trust you after that. By comaprison, other similar software I have licenses for is heinous. Cakewalk earned a lot of respect from me because of this.

Pirates will pirate. People with morals who wish to support your work will pay where they can. Respect your customers.

Re:Who are the developers

Right, and people don't realize - no matter how complex the security lockout on the door, the pirates go in throught the window.

Which of these is harder to pirate?

Scenario 1:

10 Start game
20 Check to see if key is legit
30 if key = legit, goto 50
40 echo "key is not legit"; stop
50 Play game

Scenario 2:

10 Start game
20 Really complicated check to see if game is legit, key is activated, disc is inserted
30 - 800 (really complicated and annoying security checks)
810 if key = legit, goto 830
820 echo "key is not legit, and we have contacted the FBI"; stop
830 Play game

The Pirates simply take out all the crap between "Start game" and "Play game", using decompilers and jump tracers and a bunch of crap that I don't know how it works, but get the general idea. They don't "defeat" the security. They just sidestep it. But the rest of us still have to deal with "you're not connected to the interweb tubes, you can't play this game".

~Wx

PS Yes, starforce supposedly is impossible to break. Except that it gets its grubby hands in to your computer and causes massive problems, including hardware failures, system instability, and blue screens.

Re:Who are the developers

PS Yes, starforce supposedly is impossible to break.

Except that there are torrents of every single starforce game ever around, and they all come with either cracks or mini-images, and there are at least a dozen competing "anti-starforce" tools.

Starforce is sold as being impossible to break. In the end, it's not any better than anything else.

Re:Who are the developers

I _hate_ crap like that. I use DriveCrypt for encryption (from securstar.de), and it has the most horrific license system I've ever had the displeasure to use.

That is why you should support Open Source where possible. Rather than continue with DriveCrypt change to TrueCrypt [truecrypt.org] which can do everything DriveCrypt does PLUS... use a file, say a .gif, as a key, containers compatible between Windows and Linux and also the encrypted containers don't contain DriveCrypt's giveaway signature bytes at the start of the file.

The only way to stop the re-emergence of copy protection schemes (as were the craze in the mid 1980's with things like pro-lock) is to stop buying their products, instead relying on open source whereever the task at hand allows. DriveCrypt is one of things that you can easily get rid of. WGA is a little harder, but it's day will come.

This is surprising

because none of Microsoft's software products have any flaws...

Funny that...

It seems I can't get Canonical's apt program to recognize I'm running a pirated version of ubuntu. It should be obvious, since I even got it as an iso file on the internet for free...

Re:Funny that...

apt-get install WGA

Many people just use their employeer's key

I know a number of people who 'borrowed' a Windows Support Key from their employeers, and applied the key to their pirated version of Windows. None of them have had a problem with the Windows Validator tool.

Re:Many people just use their employeer's key

The best thing to do is to copy down the key written on the authenticity sticker on corperate machines.
Those machines are likely set up with a corperate VLK, so the key on the sticker is not in use (and the company has arguably paid twice for their software, so those licences are "spare" too...).

I'm just worried that I'll buy

a copy from a store (you can't return software), MS then says it's pirated, and I'm fucked out of hundreds of bucks.

How do ypu prove that you're not a pirate if MS says you are?

Re:I'm just worried that I'll buy

As long as you're willing to rat out the reseller, MS will replace your pirated version with a genuine one.

http://www.betanews.com/article/NonLegit_Windows_U sers_Get_Amnesty/1115239342 [betanews.com]

Re:I'm just worried that I'll buy

Mine's legit and WGA rejects it. I attend classes at University which pays microsoft 4 million dollars a year and in exchange all of the students get microsoft products for free (the univeristy charges 5 dollars per disc, or you can download them for free ).

It's still a problem.

It's far more of a problem for casual, non-technical pirates than the handful of legitimate customers who have been misidentified.

I personally know of at least half a dozen people who have subsequently either a) purchased a legitimate copy of Windows, b) downgraded back to their older, legitimate version or c) bought a Mac, because they lack the technical knowledge to keep up with the WGA arms race.

WGA is certainly going to reduce the level of Windows piracy. Unfortunately for Microsoft, it's going to do so because some people will move away from Windows altogether.

Simple fact is that WGA is utterly transparent and utterly irrelevant to most legitimate users, and even those it isn't, it isn't an issue for very long.

Re:It's still a problem.

Simple fact is that WGA is utterly transparent and utterly irrelevant to most legitimate users, and even those it isn't, it isn't an issue for very long.

I can't speak for "most legitimate users," but I can describe my own brief run-in with a WGA malfunction.

A few weeks ago, when the updated version of WGA was pushed out, my Dell-with-the-original-OS booted with a notice claiming that Windows was not genuine (despite the previous version of WGA reporting no problems). I grumbled about Microsoft's lying sack of *ahem* I mean, POS anti-piracy crap that couldn't tell a real copy of Windows from a fake one, then logged in, fired up a web browser, went to the Knowledge base, mucked around until I found a link that said something like, "Validate here"... and it said, "Oh, yeah, you're genuine. No problem, pal." (Actually, it's a Dell, so that would be "No problem, Dude.")

I spouted some variation of "WTF?" Then I rebooted the machine, just to check, and sure enough it said absolutely nothing about being a pirated copy of Windows.

I eventually concluded that Norton In(ternet)Security had probably blocked the initial validation attempt. With no desktop shell, I didn't have the chance to say "yes, let the damn packet through."

The whole process took maybe 10 minutes, but it was an annoying 10 minutes. I've had my share of frustrations with Linux,* but it's never told me I was ripping off RedSuMandrivuntu.

*My main PC is a Fedora Core box. My wife's main PC is a Mac. We share this Windows box, mainly for gaming.

I am having this same problem...

...except I am running Linux. No matter how hard I try, I can't get those dweebs at Linux Corp. to understand that I never paid for this copy. I keep calling them and asking for a invoice or bill or something. But I guess they don't have a record of my purchase. Go figure. Just lucky I suppose.

Re:I am having this same problem...

You're just calling the wrong people: http://www.sco.com/ [sco.com]

Re:I am having this same problem...

Talk to Trading Standards [timesonline.co.uk] in the UK.

predictably -mostly the honest are inconvenienced

I have 2 OEM copies of windows that I bought from Fry's years ago.

Unfortunately -and predictably, in the course of 2 moves I have lost my activation key #s -I didn't glue them to my machines as recommended because I planned on moving the license to another, newer machine eventually.

Now I can't even finish the install without having to find some cracked key from some warez site. Then it won't let me install any security patches or Service Packs.

After the 30 days or whatever is up and I have to activate I then try the warezed key and am told that this key has been used too many times -Duh! a

and then I have to call MS support and get a new activation key from them. Fortunately they haven't given me too much grif, but its still a hassle.

Thanks to old flakey hard drives I have had to do this twice and now it has died a third time.

This time I said screw it and went to fry's and bought a new HP dual core media center PC for $750. so I guess MS won this round.....

But I will be trying this again since I have several more machines sitting around -I guess I'd better write down the key# the next time they give me one over the phone again. Does anyone know if the activation #s they give over the phone are 1-time codes or if they will work multiple times?

Has anyone had any luck just asking them for new activation codes?

-What's the speed of Dark?

Re:predictably -mostly the honest are inconvenienc

But I will be trying this again since I have several more machines sitting around -I guess I'd better write down the key# the next time they give me one over the phone again. Does anyone know if the activation #s they give over the phone are 1-time codes or if they will work multiple times?

Once you have a working machine - activated and all - go to C:\windows\system32 and copy the files wpa.dbl and wpa.bak to secure off-computer location(s) like a USB key or even a floppy. When you need to reinstall XP due to HDD death or whatever, reinstall as normal with the key you used on the previous install (if you don't know the key, download Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder, run it, and write down the key). After you install, boot into Safe Mode (hold down F8 at boot and select from the menu). Copy the old wpa... files back into your C:\windows\system32 directory.

-b.

Re:MORON!

Why is this flamebait? The license terms and conditions for an MS OEM license specifically states you cannot transfer the license!

When the grandparent violated the terms of his license and installed Windows on a machine that is not covered by his license agreement with Microsoft, that installation of Windows became effectively "pirated".

I'm not saying that Microsofts OEM licensing scheme is a legitimate or morally correct form of business, but from a (IANAL) legal perspective, the guy violated his license agreement and then was completely astounded when WGA told him that he had violated his license agreement... (jokes about Microsoft software actually working well enough to do what it should aside...)

There is Anti-WGA cracks...

Microsoft.Windows.XP.Professional.Corporate.SP2.In tegrated.July.2006.MULTI.IMAGE.REPACK-ETH0 That has all the latest updates... and has a WGA crack in it... no wonder he can't get it to recognize it's pirated.

Feh! Windows XP Pirate Edition

Obviously the P2P Pirate edition of XP uses the VLK and has modified the legitcontrol.dll, wgatray.exe, and wga*.dll files to not report a WGA violation.

Want to really test the WGA? Use your original copy of Windows XP and search the Internet for a known CD-Key and install with that key that millions of other people have used. Then watch as the retail or OEM version of Windows with unpatched WGA files reports you as a pirate.

Ninja Pirate Hackers and Crackers have modified the WGA files with something called MSIL that is like assembly language. For example if a valid key is found, you might have a comparision done and a JNE to 2000:1345 which calls the part of the code that turns on the "Your copy of Windows is not legit" function. Turn that JNE 2000:1345 into a NOP and the comparison does not match and the program does not jump into the Anti-Pirate code. Or change it to a JE 2000:1345 and if a valid key is found it jumps to the Anti-Pirate code and if an invalid key it does not. Or just take the code at 2000:1345 that turns on the Pirated bit and fill it with NOPs. I am just guessing here, I could be wrong, but I think the pirated version of Windows and those WGA-Fix patches do those sort of things.

Meanwhile my legit copy of Windows XP has to have the WGA spyware on it to get updates from Microsoft. Yeah Windows Update and Microsoft Update require that I install WGA in order to use them. If not, no updates from the web. WGA trashed my fast user switching after it got installed. I can see the WGA files eating my system memory, CPU cycles, and using up bandwidth to report back to Microsoft, yes folks it is spyware. I would guess the pirate version of the WGA Fixed files remove the spyware as well.

Not only that I heard that the pirate version of XP has special tweaks and bug fixes that the retail and OEM versions do not have. Yet your chances of malware infections are greater with the pirate version, because you never know who last modified it before you got a copy. So beware.

can I get a link

can I get a link to that Google page with the 5 valid keys, please?

Damn that Microsoft!

I thought false positives were bad, but holy crap, letting a few pirates go with false negatives is so much worse! They may never get to experience the pleasures of those prompts or being prevented from downloading updates and utilities.

Why is this a problem for anyone but Microsoft (or those who have a perverse desire to be labeled as a pirate and then blog about it)? Do you suppose maybe he got a false negative because Microsoft is less willing to pull the trigger when in doubt?

Fraction of a percent...

They claim that all but "a fraction of a percent" of those 60 million people who've been denied access to Microsoft updates and downloads are guilty, guilty, guilty. Right.

Right. Remember, 3/2—or 119,990,000/2—is, after all, a fraction.

Just not a proper fraction.

Volume License Keys Always Pass The WGA

Corporate Volume License Keys always pass the WGA test.

e.g. HP has all the computers in the Sydney office running with one Volume License Key, now if someone were to leave HP's employ and continue to use the key MS would have no way of knowing so has to let it pass the WGA.

It has to just shrug and go well thats HP let it pass or risk annoying the hell out of a lot of HP people if they refuse it.

What MS shoudl do

It's probably been suggested before, but what MS should do is what games used to do back in the '80s. When you turn on your computer, it asks you "on page 10 of the manual, what is the 7th word in line 13?"
Espeically since windows has become too complex for a purely software based solution to ever work reliably.

poor logic

False negatives don't imply false positives.

It's okay...

*My main PC is a Fedora Core box. My wife's main PC is a Mac. We share this Windows box, mainly for gaming.

It's okay, man. You don't have to prove yourself to us. :-D

WGA - Microsofts Marketing at its finest

From the PR notices: http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/downloads/whyVali date.aspx [microsoft.com]

Confidence and Peace of Mind
Your software is authentic, properly licensed and supported by Microsoft or a trusted partner.

Ongoing Improvements
You will get access to updates, enhancements, and innovations that help you protect and do more with your PC.

Capabilities You Expect
Your system will deliver the features, options, and performance you need to maximize your productivity and enjoyment.

Greatest PR/Marketing campaign ever. Don't you feel the Love?

Enjoy,

Who needs updates anyway?

Stick it behind a firewall. Put good antivirus software on there (which can be free like Avast or AVG Free). Scan for other spyware periodically. Use Firefox to surf sites whenever possible, and don't surf obviously sketchy sites. And don't run executables that you don't know about.

I still have an unpatched Windows 2k SP3 box which has been running behind a firewall for the last 2 1/2 years. Still relatively fast and shows no evidence of malware infestation.

I can see updates being necessary on Server 2003, which is often quite buggy and needs patches for stuff to work, but an XP or 2k box doesn't desperately need the updates if it's used in a reasonably sane manner.

-b.

A simple bug

They just forgot a "!" in the checking code!

A 10MB mandatory patch should clear that one right up.

My WGA Issue

Here is my WGA story.

A client's laptop started complaining. I checked its key, and it did not match the key on the sticker. So I attempted to change the key. No go with MS's vba script. No go with the activation wizard (which is another suggested way to change it) - it stated that the key was invalid. Further 'hacking' with the activation wizard (No, I don't know what I did, but there was a maximum of three buttons I could have clicked, and one of them was 'cancel!') got me a key I could use on the phone, and, after telling a bored Indian the story ("Have you installed this software on any other machine?" - I swear that quoting a snatch of Alice in Wonderland would have succeded!) he coughed up the activation code. WGA no more, but my it's a drag!

If I charged them full price, It may well have been more than a new licence. Even so, it probably would have taken just as long to get it to accept the freshly bought key.
 

False positives waste hours of my work day.

I service computers for a living. I've done so for more than 10 years. Over the past few years, I've observed a vast increase in unrecoverable hard drive failure rates, and an even larger increase of malware which negatively affects the system beyond reasonable repair. In these situations it is often much faster (and cheaper for the client) for me to re-install the customer's Windows. I'd guess that more than 80% of these re-installs involve an OEM release of Windows, where the product license key is on a sticker physically and permanently attached to the computer's case. One which is quite obviously either a legitimate license or an extremely well made (and unlikely) counterfit. Now, about half of all re-installs (which require product re-activation) fail the product activaiton (even before I can install the WGA spyware). This requires a phone call to Microsoft's product activation line. Here, if someone asks me a question or the other phone line rings or I hickup, Microsoft's non-human system will often make me start all over again repeating a boring string of numbers. After this, I get informed that the product key can not be validated (Which is the reason I called in the first place) and put on hold again until I finally get a human (if not English) voice. Then I'm asked to repeat the first part of the boring string of numbers before I'm questioned like a murder suspect about why I want to activate Windows. After all this, I am usually provided the clearance code to activate Windows. Total time for this process per client computer is approximately 20 minutes. Repeat 4 or 5 times each day, 5 days a week and Microsoft has managed to waste a very large quantity of my billable time. However, after jumping through these hoops, WGA did not bother these clients (yet).

Variant on WGA problems

Hi all

Had a problem last week that I'd never seen before...

I had to reinstall XP Pro at home, so duly provided my license key during installation. Much to my displeasure, I was then required to go through the whole WGA problem to get some critical security updates.

It flagged my license as a dud, and put my code on screen for me to see and sort out.

Except that it didn't put in my code - the one I'd set when I installed Windows - but a completely different code...