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IBM Germany Leaving Vista for Linux

Posted by CmdrTaco on Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:57 AM
from the that-just-seems-strange dept.
UltimaGuy writes "During a presentation on IBM's involvement with Open Source, Andreas Pleschek from IBM in Stuttgart, Germany, who heads open source and Linux technical sales across North East Europe for IBM made a very interesting statement..."Andreas Pleschek also told that IBM has cancelled their contract with Microsoft as of October this year. That means that IBM will not use Windows Vista for their desktops. Beginning from July, IBM employees will begin using IBM Workplace on their new, Red Hat-based platform. Not all at once - some will keep using their present Windows versions for a while. But none will upgrade to Vista." "
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  • news denied (Score:5, Informative)

    by baxterux (575852) on Wednesday March 08 2006, @12:00PM (#14875534) Homepage
    heise a german news site has just published an articles saying IBM denied the claims http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/70532 [heise.de]
    • by Svartalf (2997) on Wednesday March 08 2006, @12:09PM (#14875642) Homepage
      Companies not ready for disclosure of things of this nature almost always flatly deny them occuring- just witness XGI being bought by ATI recently; both companies denied they were doing it- but they did it anyway. I've little doubts that they may have done this- they've been building up to it for several years now. Now whether it's actually going to happen, on the other hand, remains to be seen.
    • Re:news denied (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Crazy Man on Fire (153457) on Wednesday March 08 2006, @12:22PM (#14875766) Homepage
      There's no way that IBM can convert to Linux until it has ported Lotus Notes. So far, employees using Linux have to run Notes using Wine. It is not very stable and some functions don't work. Until I see a Linux port, I won't believe this news.
      • by wild_berry (448019) on Wednesday March 08 2006, @12:45PM (#14876050) Journal
        Funny you should say that: I saw Ross Burton write on his blog [burtonini.com] (via the Debian blog planet [debian.org]) of a Groklaw post about Linux Forum Day 2 [groklaw.net], from which Mr Burton quotes:
        At the end of the presentation, Andreas Pleschek revealed that the laptop he used for the presentation was running a pre-release of their new platform, the Open Client. It is actually a Red Hat work station with IBM's new Workplace Client, which is built in Java on top of Eclipse. Because of Eclipse, it runs on both Linux and Windows, and they have been able to reuse the C++ code in Lotus Notes for Windows to run it natively on Linux via Eclipse. Internally in IBM, for years, they have had a need to run Lotus Notes on Linux, and now they can. And they will offer it to their customers. Workplace uses Lotus Notes for mail, calendar, etc. and Firefox as their browser. For an office suite, they use OpenOffice.org.


        It seems that the new IBM thing, Workplace has Notes running natively.
    • by node 3 (115640) on Wednesday March 08 2006, @12:31PM (#14875893)
      I checked the site, but it was in German.

      Laut Berichten über das LinuxForum in Dänemark ...

      It appears that Laut Berichten announced at LinuxForum in Denmark that they are switching to Super DOS.

      I hope that clears things up.
  • by Svartalf (2997) on Wednesday March 08 2006, @12:00PM (#14875536) Homepage
    Either is compelling as a statement from Big Blue, but the latter of the two is much more devastating
    as it means QUITE a bit of revenue on MS' part.
    • Either is compelling as a statement from Big Blue

      IBM's CIO has already made clear that IBM's direction for its employees' desktops is Linux. Back in 2004 he released a statement that IBM would standardize on Linux desktops by the end of 2005, but it was quickly realized that was too ambitious a goal. There's just too much stuff in IBM that is tied to Windows. Still, it's widely recognized that Linux *is* the direction, worldwide, even if there isn't a specific timeline in place.

      As an IBMer who uses Linux as his desktop platform for work, I read these sorts of announcements with glee because they just reinforce the message internally that new internal IT systems should not require Windows and that old ones that do require Windows need to be replaced. At present I still have to keep a Win2K VMware image around to deal with the occasional Windows-specific internal tools, and to deal with the occasional Office doc that OOo can't manage. As more groups within IBM move more aggressively away from Windows, however, I expect to need that image less and less, and someday I won't need it at all.

      ObDisclaimer: I'm an IBM employee, but not a spokesperson. Everything I've said about IBM's plans and policies is just my vague memories of publicly-released information. If you find official statements that contradict mine, I'm wrong.

  • I'm not surprised (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 08 2006, @12:01PM (#14875537)

    I can't say I'm surprised. In conjuction with Microsoft's involvement with the Trusted Computing Group, and the TPM hardware appearing in new PCs [slashdot.org], the next version of Windows (Vista) will solidify Microsoft's near total control over the desktop.

    Having TPM hardware in the machine at all is bad enough... if you move to Vista there will (quite literally) be no escape. The computer you purchase will not belong to you and will be deliberately designed to be secure against you, rather than for you. Vista will be the software component of this lockdown.

    Now look at IBM -- for them to base their business around Vista would make them *completely* under the control of Microsoft. Their desktops could be secretly backdoored, their data locked down and only accessible with the permission of Microsoft. 100% Bill's bitch. Why submit to that when you can (and are) pay off Red Hat to work on a Trusted Computing version of the Linux kernel (google for the project)... and have that kind of control yourself?

    Smaller companies and normal consumers though... that's a different matter. They are going to be screwed royally with the introduction of Vista. They just don't realise it yet, and won't until they've paid over their cash to Dell or HP. DRM throughout the system (apps and data), and all under the control of Uncle Bill and his Rights Management Servers.

  • by digitaldc (879047) * on Wednesday March 08 2006, @12:01PM (#14875548)
  • by One Louder (595430) on Wednesday March 08 2006, @12:03PM (#14875575)
    ...the chairs start flying.

    Won't somebody at IBM please think of the chairs?

  • Exaggerations! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by blackmonday (607916) on Wednesday March 08 2006, @12:08PM (#14875635) Homepage
    Its BS to say that "no one will upgrade" to Vista. Are you telling me that software developers will not be using Vista at all? It's a ridiculous notion for a company that develops hundreds of products for the Windows OS.

    • Re:Exaggerations! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Penguinoflight (517245) on Wednesday March 08 2006, @12:32PM (#14875899) Homepage Journal
      IBM will not be forced to upgrade to vista. Their software runs server side, and almost all of it is supported directly by IBM. There is no reason in fact for IBM to support Vista, and by doing so support Microsoft.

      Think of it this way: If nobody supports vista, nobody will have to support vista! While IBM moving away from microsoft is a move in the right direction, IBM will not be able to crush Vista on their own, they will need help.

      The only group that will need to support Vista is game developers. Most (with exception of Epic, iD, and a few others) have gone so far to avoid opengl, and embrace directx, they will be forced to adopt Vista just to keep things moderately insecure (Microsoft will strategically drop security support for xp soon enough).

      It should be noted, there is no reason for game devs to support windows; It's far too insecure for gaming, and that wont get any better. A move to linux (and with it FreeBSD by binary compatibility) would allow devs to go with only 2-3 major platforms: OpenGL for PS3, linux/PC, and possibly nintendo revolution. Of course you would have to support directX for xbox360, but over time the extra cost to develop for microsoft would probably kill their projects.

      We have come to the point where the time to move away from microsoft is NOW, but unfortunately it will take a while for vendors and developers to realize that.
  • Still Just Noise (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Nom du Keyboard (633989) on Wednesday March 08 2006, @12:27PM (#14875832)
    I think it's all just posturing so far. But would be a great move if it happened.

    The problem for any corporation updating to Vista is that you rather have to replace most of your hardware along the way as well.

    And upgrade your memory. Over on The Inquirer [theinquirer.net] they're reporting that Vista consumes 800MB of RAM while idling. This is absolutely insane to someone who first started using computers in the early 1970's. There just isn't that much stuff that an Operating System should be doing. And yes, that really is 3X XP's current requirements, the thought of which certainly is warming Intel's little heart.

    Seems to me if MS wants to keep IBM in the fold they should be offering to buy them all new desktops.

  • Its global, and pervasive.

    This has been coming for a long time. Remember that IBM has been one of the largest forces behind Eclipse. Not because its great as a development platform -- because its got potential as a great APPLICATION platform.

    Roughly 50% of the large enterprise email market is using IBM Lotus Notes. You may not like it, but its true. Different studies wieght it differently by a few points to either side. Pick the study and you can find all kinds of results. The counts are close enough that the difference is accounted for by what you count as client use, who gives you the numbers, etc. For example, MS typically likes to count anyone who owns Office as an Outlook user which will skew the numbers quite a bit. Regardless, the market is split nearly in have between MS and IBM for that market with small shares going to a few other players (like Groupwise).

    * Keep in mind, we're talking LARGE ENTERPRISE here. Annecdotes about companies under 500,000,000 in gross revenue don't count.

    IBM has been pushing Linux at the desktop in their offices where possible for at least three years. One thing holding them back has been that their own platform, Notes, doesn't run easily on Linux natively. The reason isn't Notes -- which was built to be cross platform, resulting in some often critisized UI choices. The reason is the same as so many other companies don't support Linux for the workstation. Its difficult to make a generic installation and maintenance solution.

    With Eclipse as the base, IBM has spent a few years on their new WORKPLACE products. The grand plan is pretty different from what they've ended up with, but they are very close to roll out of their "Hannover" product which is Lotus Notes (actual, real code - not rewritten or made compatible) with a UI done in Eclipse. On top of that, Eclipse becomes Workplace Rich Client when you add a few plug in layers which allow managment, server based rollout and maintenance, and other portal stuff they use.

    It also handles off-line use and synchronization for out of office and traveling.

    It works. I've seen it. I've played with it.

    What that means is that their "killer apps" -- those applications critical to the success of people working in IBM offices don't even need to be "ported". They're in Lotus Notes applications already and keep working as they have. Also, their Email client works as it always has.

    Add to this that Workplace has Open Office based applications built into it as well, and a new thing called an "Activity Explorer" (which IMO is going to be the most important NEW thing from them).

    Tie it all together and they can do everything they need to do without a Windows based application. They've cut themselves free entirely.

    What IBM has done is not just TALK about making a linux desktop workable -- they've created the missing pieces so that they can actually support their own massive workforce with such a rollout.

    Bravo to them.
    • because its got potential as a great APPLICATION platform.

      I think that for Eclipse to be fully embraced by Linux application developers, the CDT plugin [eclipse.org] will need to mature some more. I'm not seeing Java become more adopted.

      Anyway, I tried working with Eclipse + CDT, but for medium-sized applications programmed in C (> 5000 lines) it's not really nice.

      • The indexer is very slow (but that's being worked on) and in my experience, gets in the way of other background processes. Turn it off and you lose
      • Refactoring is extremely limited, not even 'extract method'.
      • Editor is not equal to the Java editor yet.
      • "Clicking through" (i.e. CTRL + left-click) takes you to a header file, while often you want to see the implementation. The workaround is to right-click and choose Open Definition, but don't do this immediately. You might end up in a similarly-named function which you didn't include through a header file.
      • Hovering over a function will show the start of the function definition, but only if the function body is located in the same file. Otherwise nothing will be shown but the function name.
      • Hovering over a constant will show nothing.

      On the other hand, these guys are REALLY working on it. I especially applaud Doug Schaefer [blogspot.com] and the rest of the team too, of course.

  • by pfaut (18898) on Wednesday March 08 2006, @12:39PM (#14875992) Homepage
    Why do I sense that this will spawn the mother of all BSA audits?
    • Re:Ridiculous (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Chemicalscum (525689) on Wednesday March 08 2006, @01:26PM (#14876475) Journal
      IBM is a consulting company - they provide hardware and software to support other company's infrastructure. The idea that they will convert their clients and potential clients to GNU/Linux is a kind of ridiculous in a market dominated by Windows.

      IBM is aiming for platform agnostic software client, side with anything new based on the the Eclipse RCP (Rich Client Platform) using Java as with IBM Workplace. The client side applications they produce will run on Linux, AIX, Mac OSX AND Windows