Dvorak Sees MS Conspiracy Against BitTorrent 373
kilgortrout writes "Dvorak has an interesting editorial up, where he links the recent stories of alleged 'security problems' and 'spyware problems' bittorent has been having with the recent MS announcement of research into a file sharing app called 'Avalanche'. concluding it's all part of an orchestrated MS disinformation campaign against BitTorrent." From the article: "The problem is that no big company controls it, and Microsoft, asleep at the wheel, let it slip too long to do much about it. So now I suspect Microsoft is playing dirty to discredit the thing. There is no other explanation for the recent series of coincidental stories and events." Especially interesting in light of Bram Cohen's take on the situation.
Sheer Brilliance (Score:5, Interesting)
His main points:
- "Avalanche" is a textbook FUD salvo against BitTorrent. (MSFT TRICK ME? NO WAY)
- While spyware can be distributed through BitTorrent, this doesn't mean BitTorrent is spyware. (WTF R U SURE, J.D.?)
- "Avalanche" is vaporware. (F'REALZ? OMG!!)
The column isn't wrong, it's just a waste of bandwidth. I've read
Re:Sheer Brilliance (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Sheer Brilliance (Score:5, Funny)
I agree (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I agree (Score:4, Funny)
But I digress.
Re:I agree (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I agree (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Sheer Brilliance (Score:2)
Re:Sheer Brilliance (Score:2)
It was shortly after the dust-up which resulted when he tried to publish that book containing Slashdot posts from other people.
By that point, most Slashbots had already gotten over the awe and wonder of having a "legitimate" journalist writing columns for Slashdot, and whatever credibility he had within geek culture had pretty much evaporated.
He appears to have given up on trying to fit in with geek counterculture (I wonder if he finally realized that there never was any such thing
Re:Sheer Brilliance (Score:3, Funny)
WTF is he talking about? Hasn't he been reading the MS press releases and blogs about how MS is settling all it's lawsuits and making friends with everyone. MS is not an evil empire anymore. They told us so.
Yes this is supposed to be funny.
Re:Sheer Brilliance (Score:5, Funny)
Given the nature of goatse, it is next to impossible to have more insight than that, and no one wants that much insight.
Re:Sheer Brilliance (Score:5, Funny)
obvious? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you haven't noticed, the outsiders (a.k.a
Joe-Users, common people, ignorant sheep, etc) didn't believe Microsoft was insecure - at least until the most recent exploits.
They think that Microsoft is Good, and also that machines are just good because they have "Intel Inside".
They do NOT know about Microsoft's monopolic practices (and I'm not talking about embedding IE inside Windows), the FUD of SCO vs Linux, the danger of software patents, etc. etc.
But I remember one thing from my old days of computer user. My dad bought PC Magazine and used to read John C. Dvorak's columns. Who were written for common people, not for unix über-geeks.
Sure, his statements might be obvious to us. But not for the outside world. And I'm glad that he tells this stuff so common people can find out.
(Now if only he spoke against software patents...)
Re:obvious? (Score:3, Informative)
Oh, wait. He did [pcmag.com]. But a bit of refreshment shouldn't be bad
You give the squirrel too much credit. (Score:5, Interesting)
As for Avalanche being FUD, it's not. Microsoft didn't announce it. Someone picked it up from an academic research conference. All sorts of stuff goes on under the banner of research, and no one that I know of at Microsoft is claiming that it will make it to market. BitTorrent has well known problems, and the researchers were presenting ideas to address those problems, but there was no message of BitTorrent is bad, don't use it. So Avalanche isn't FUD of any kind.
As for being vaporware, that's a bit premature. Since no one from Microsoft has indicated that there will be a product, it's not vaporware. I've thought about high performance web servers, but I've never announced the impending release of one, or even started developing one. Avalanche is no more vaporware than my high performance web server. Someone from Microsoft has to at least indicate an intention of releasing a product before it can be vaporware.
So I think you're dead wrong. JD isn't nailing the obvious. He's seen the broad side of the barn and thrown the basketball, but he sure didn't hit it.
It's none of those things (Score:5, Informative)
http://research.microsoft.com/~pablo/avalanche.ht
See the "research."? See the ~pablo? This is one of MSR's researchers publishing a piece of academic research. Of course, it's not a product, because it's not intended to be. Researchers often will build a prototype, but don't have the time or the inclination to produce production-quality code. Do you think Microsoft would be openly publishing the design details if it were intended to be a product?
There is no FUD and no vaporware and no conspiracy. This whole storm in a teacup over Avalanche is probably a good example of why publishing research papers openly on the web for other people (i.e. people who don't understand research) to see can be a bad idea.
Actually, HTTP and SMTP are the problem (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Sheer Brilliance (Score:4, Interesting)
His second major point after the main story was that NO ONE ELSE bothered to do the work to investigate the bittorrent-is-infected meme and where it came from. Who benefits, indeed.
It's a breakdown in all levels of news accuracy since the destruction of the old network news organizations and the rise of for-profit tabloid schlock. Fun to read is not the same as "real".
It's called journalism. You don't agree with the conclusion, state your reasons and sources. Is Dvorak wrong about the source of the Bittorrent smear? Is it outrageous, considering 24 years of MS underhanded attacks on competitors, that they are now launching a long-term smear-and-envelop campaign against a protocol that doesn't have a meter built-in to pump money into MS?
Attack-the-man isn't an interesting comment. It's Fox News.
Re:Sheer Brilliance (Score:3, Funny)
I am biased against Dvorak.
Signed: Qwerty
does anyone really care? (Score:2, Interesting)
Somebody must care what he says! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Somebody must care what he says! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Somebody must care what he says! (Score:2)
Yeah, and that somebody is Slashdot! (Score:2)
Re:Somebody must care what he says! (Score:2)
Or be constantly linked to on Slashdot, the readers of which site pride themselves on their geek stature and technical insight.
Hell has indeed frozen over! (Score:4, Funny)
Not really... (Score:2)
He's just quick with the masses in guesswork, and riding off an unpopular "nerd" who programs "illegal" softwar
Ummm (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless they were a... *gasp* coincidence.
Why would bittorrent be the P2P app that scares MS? What about Napster, or Kazza? Those were around years ago. This makes no sense to me.
Re:Ummm (Score:5, Insightful)
Bittorrent is anywhere, I can post a torrent link here and have 1000s of people all getting the latest and greatest(!?) version of Windows.
Also, don't forget, its now becoming routine for people to download nice cd/dvd sized ISO files
They didn't care when it took hundreds of hours per disk.
Re:Ummm (Score:3, Interesting)
I think something else is going on (Score:5, Interesting)
Now, their recent attack against Samba was quite simply an attempt to maintain the status quo. Samba *has been* widely adopted in the corporate arena. So it is not as much of an attack as much as it is a competitive compliment ("We know you don't really need this and we know you will kick our a?? if we give it to you so reverse engineer it yourself").
However Microsoft has a problem, and it is a big one. See, upgrade cycles are getting longer, the growth of the computing industry is slowing, and piracy is still rampant in the developing world. At the same time, Microsoft shareholders want returns. So Microsoft has to be looking for new markets. They spend a lot of time looking for emerging markets so that they can get a foot in the door, but they are so big that even if a new market sees 100% growth the first year, that won't translate into any real growth for their company. However, they still have to try.
Re:Ummm (Score:2)
But can you get pornography from Avalanche? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:But can you get pornography from Avalanche? (Score:2)
They wouldn't even have to put it on top of HTTP to get a large savings. Just have a Microsoft Windows Large File WebServer Edition to host all large files say over 256K. Have the Large File WebServer grab the files automatically from the site and replace the links automatically with links to the Avalanch Server.
This isn't a big deal. This isn't hard task, and it isn't a hard to roll out.
Re:But can you get pornography from Avalanche? (Score:3, Insightful)
Indeed, Blizzard [blizzard.com] uses Bittorrent to distribute patches for World of Warcraft [worldofwarcraft.com].
What? (Score:2, Funny)
Microsoft can MAKE Avalanch happen (Score:5, Insightful)
Step 1. Include support in IIS (via Patch)
Step 2. Include support for it in IE (via Patch)
Step 3. DONE!
Re:Microsoft can MAKE Avalanch happen (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft can MAKE Avalanch happen (Score:5, Interesting)
The process would be to automatically replace all links to files which are larger than say 256K with a Torrent-ish link. This could be done on pagebuild as it the file is served up.
You would want to build the Torrent capabilities into the browser as well, so then you would goto Firefox and build them in there as well.
Re:Microsoft can MAKE Avalanch happen (Score:5, Informative)
The process would be to automatically replace all links to files which are larger than say 256K with a Torrent-ish link. This could be done on pagebuild as it the file is served up.
You would want to build the Torrent capabilities into the browser as well, so then you would goto Firefox and build them in there as well.
Here's the Apache half of it: mod-torrent [sourceforge.net]
Spyware and virii (Score:3, Insightful)
If you are running a win32 variant, you basically need patches on almost a daily basis. The closed nature of the software demands you get these patches from Microsoft. (Which must have one hell of a bandwidth bill and could actually use a BT like technology for cost reasons alone.)
There is nothing like having a distribution channel your customers (read cattle) must make use of. Works just like our own government does. Attach somethi
Re:Spyware and virii (Score:2)
This, BTW, will be Microsoft Extending and embracing HTTP.
/. Sees Dvorak Conspiracy Against Common Sense (Score:5, Funny)
From The Fine Article:
by early 2005 it was perhaps the dominant protocol on the Net, second only to TCP/IP itself
Wow - TCP/IP, then P2P, and then all those small niche protocols like http, smtp, ftp...
BitTorrent IS the dominant protocol on the Net (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.cachelogic.com/research/slide3.php [cachelogic.com]
or ask anyone who works at an ISP. HTTP barely counts compared to BitTorrent and the other P2P file network protocols.
Steven
Re:BitTorrent IS the dominant protocol on the Net (Score:5, Insightful)
except the obvious (Score:2)
The News I'd Really Like To See: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:The News I'd Really Like To See: (Score:2)
I'm shocked, shocked! (Score:2)
<Irony = 0%>
Oh, crap, did I forget to set the Irony to 100% on that? I hate it when that happens!
A Dvorak flood? (Score:3, Insightful)
I hope not. I read Dvorak from 1984 onward when he was in his PC Magazine glory. Fun times, stupid boldfacing of seemingly random characters and all. But man, has this guy gone downhill. Now he seems to be throwing darts at a board labled, "Insult Apple," "Insult Linux," "Insult Random Somebody," and then sit back and wait for the hits. Posting links to /. is to just fall into his lazy scheme.
Let's not make this a regular feature, that's all I'm asking. I know where to find Mr. Dvorak's words, and I know enough not to wander there.
Say it's not so! (Score:5, Funny)
I mean, they've never done that before, right?
Re:Say it's not so! (Score:5, Funny)
It killed a company I worked for. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It killed a company I worked for. (Score:3, Insightful)
Ok, go ahead and call me cynical. . . (Score:4, Interesting)
Imply it's something the boys at R&D have been working on, and either the customers wait for the MS product (which as often as not never actually arrives) or the other developer throws up his hands and abandons.
In fact, I have no idea what MS's R&D division actually does other than supply statements and papers as necessary to effect this. The commercial software comes from the commercial development teams, not the research teams.
KFG
Similarly... (Score:4, Funny)
answering your own question (Score:3, Insightful)
Except that maybe it is all just coincidence, just like he says. Not everything is a conspiracy, sometimes things just happen.
Why does MS care? (Score:2)
Re:Why does MS care? (Score:2)
Re:Why does MS care? (Score:2)
BT functionality (esp sharing bandwith) in commercial applications is one such u
Re:Why does MS care? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why does MS care? (Score:2)
That can't be Dvorak (Score:2, Interesting)
The only defenders of BitTorrent I saw regarding this issue were buried here and there on Slashdot.
Huh?
This is Microsoft RESEARCH! (Score:5, Interesting)
MSR researchers publish in all the same conferences as academics at Universities and National Labs, go through the same peer-review process as everyone else, and have too much reputation at stake to publish junk papers or overtly push an agenda.
Yes, their research may be nudged in directions that MS wants to go, but it is real research and not a part of a conspiracy.
Re:This is Microsoft RESEARCH! (Score:3, Insightful)
MSR does some wonderfull language research. (Score:3, Insightful)
C# and
But do not take my word for it, go see for yourself: http://research.microsoft.com/ppt/ [microsoft.com]
Why only bittorrent? (Score:2)
WTF? (Score:2)
The only defenders of BitTorrent I saw regarding this issue were buried here and there on Slashdot. They sure were not in the newsrooms--or the blogs for that matter. All the stories I saw were disgraceful.
Hell hath frozen over... Agreeing with Dvorak... Dvorak lauding Slashdot...
huh? (Score:2)
Forced into using DRM (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, on the same note, it's in our best interest to put a large amount of effort into relying on free information and non proprietary technology as much as possible.
At least he's not on (Score:2)
Just because Microsoft is out to borg peer-to-peer technology, that doesn't mean that every related event is the result of a Gatesian plot.
Spyware on Bittorrent was almost as unsurprising as a wiki editorial site getting graffitied to death.
Protocols (Score:3, Informative)
I'm sorry, but this guy doesn't know what he's talking about - you can't make a meaningful statement comparing the usage of the BT protocol to the 'TCP/IP protocol'. If he's going to make such statements, at least he should compare it to something relevant, like HTTP or FTP.
Please help me (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Please help me (Score:3, Funny)
The vapourware claim (Score:2)
Some guy at Microsoft's UK research branch (iirc) got interested in file distribution and wrote a paper on how it could potentially be improved upon. Bram even said that this was one of the better papers, despite a few major flaws. Now the poor guy's being accused of being a part of a microsoft conspiracy to tak
For once Dvorak is right, but ... (Score:2)
First MSFT tries to "replace" BitTorrent with a "safe" version (read revenue-enhanced). Then they help sponsor the Canadian legislation so they can sell it in both the US and Canada. Then they push the EU to actually permit software patents (which don't exist there yet).
Embrace. Extend.
But just because Dvorak is right doesn't mean he's always right - he's usually wrong.
All the Dvorak bashing aside... (Score:4, Insightful)
Why is this important? This article will now be referenced on all the major news sites, and will work as counter-FUD. That's the good thing with sensationalist guys like Dvorak. He writes interesting and scandalous things (from a journalist point of view) and sometimes he actually get it right.
This *is* kind of a big deal (Score:5, Informative)
Why would MS be interested in BitTorrent?
Because they are pretty good at seeing where the market is going.
BitTorrent is *not* a niche protocol. BitTorrent is the *dominant* form of net-traffic.
http://www.cachelogic.com/research/slide3.php [cachelogic.com]
Ask anyone who works at a major ISP.
BitTorrent is currently the *dominant* protocol on the net, in terms of bits transfered. Yes, bigger than HTTP, FTP, all the normal protocols, and all the other P2P protocols.
In addition to *ALL THAT TRAFFIC*, BitTorrent is starting to see siginifcant corporate legitimacy. Blizzard uses BitTorrent in a customized downloader to distribute patches.
Valve uses a BitTorrent-like (read, licensed from Bram Cohen (infact developed by him, http://www.ferrago.com/story/2963 [ferrago.com]) protocol for distributing their software.
One can imagine that the legitimate electronic channels of distribution in the future will uses BitTorrent or BitTorrent-like schemes. The cost savings on bandwidth alone will set companies that use it apart from the competition.
And right now, MS has no technology that comes close. This is from a company that once dreamed of making MSN synonmous with 'The Net'.
More likely than not, MS currently sees BitTorrent as a massive threat to their having a position in the content distribution networks of tomorrow. Why use a Microsoft solution if you can either write your own in-house OSS solution, or hire another company with a pre-developed, pre-test solution (steam), that crushes the MS solution in bandwidth efficiency.
In the realm of content distribution (which is a big, big place, and a place where 'visionaries' see a lot of growth (perhaps real, perhaps imaginary), BitTorrent is the 'big fish'. And Bram Cohen occupies a similar spot to Linus Torvald's position in the 'Linux World'.
Ganeral Slashdot Knee-Jerk Reaction... (Score:3, Interesting)
*Someone taps Mr. Joe Slashdot on the shoulder and whispers in his ear*
What?... Uh-huh.... really.... ah.... oh....
Wait, he said something I AGREE with? He's bashing Microsoft?
Dvorak is a prime example of how tech journalists should be! We should lift him up on our shoulders and parade him around the square! Never have I seen a more fair, balanced and well-researched article in my life!
No explanation? (Score:5, Insightful)
Except for "coincidence".
bittorent? (Score:4, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:3, Informative)
Spread of trade-friendly music.
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:2)
Yep, I remember using ftp.sunet.se back in like 93 or so. I thought it was an institution.
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:3, Informative)
Lots of other stuff is and can be distributed through Bittorrent.
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:5, Informative)
You're posting on it.
Seriously, how many times have you seen a post on
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:5, Informative)
Obviously, someone wasn't paying attention. [slashdot.org]
And FWIW, over the past few days I've downloaded Linux From Scratch CD and Book, Knoppix lastest, and OpenSolaris code over BitTorrent. Xandros also provides a free version of their distro only over bittorrent, and many game demos come over bittorrent. It's gotten to the point where I get pretty upset if I *can't* get a large file over BT. (Others may remember me bitching about not being able to download Solaris 10 over BT. I still can't, but at least I can get the source and OpenSolaris derivitives.)
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:2)
It was indeed faster than getting it through any of the mirrors.
Even if that wasn't true, I have the right to get my distros using any protocol I wish. BitTorrent is a protocol, nothing more. It does not care about what data is being transferred on it.
Applying your logic, USENET also falls under this, as the vast majority of data transferred on it is warez, music, games, etc. Of course, I subscribe to 9 groups, none of which deal in any of that.
Remember, com
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:2)
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:2, Interesting)
Besides that, I typically use it for distributing home videos to family that are scattered around the globe...
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:2)
Phish, Grateful Dead, Bela Fleck, Derek Trucks, etc. are not my favorite music to listen to, but they're pretty good.
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:3, Interesting)
Just last week, the Battlefield2 demo was released. All the download locations were smashed for at least 8 hours. If you were connected to one (even one that had a high rate to begin with) the estimated time to completion kept going up, not down.
After about an hour (and my estimate being 3 days) I found the torrent link, and one hour later, I had the 600mb file.
Now THAT's what the torrent is all about.
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:4, Informative)
Suppose you want to download Ubuntu linux [ubuntu.com] and try installing it. It's rapidly becoming one of the most popular linux distributions, and you want to see what it's all about.
So, you visit that page. Hmm... you can download the single CD installer OR a single live CS. They also have a single DVD installer, which functions as both, and also includes all the packages which aren't on either CD.
How do you download that DVD image? Bittorrent. Don't just take my word for it. Go ahead, click on that link and see for yourself. Bittorrent is the ONLY way to obtain the larger DVD version.
Personally, I've resisted trying out bitottent until now. But a friend of mine, who's going back to school (and only has dialup), is taking a linux class and wants to try out some of the major distros. The DVD is looking like a much better option than the single CD, where he'll have to apt-get stuff using very slow dialup (and they live in a rural area with low quality lines, so disconnections are common).
So there you have it. Not only a bonafide legal use of bittorrent, but bittorrent is the ONLY WAY to obtain that DVD image for my friend.
Re:Legal use for torrent? (Score:3, Interesting)
2 versions of America's Army (free game)
3-5 patches of various games I have
all at about 300-400 kbps
need I go on?
Re:The deuce you say! (Score:2)
The dunce you say! (Score:2)
He probably has a lot of coherent and interesting things to say; they just all come out as jibberish because he insists on using his goofy keyboard layout...
Re:How to be a tech pundit (Score:2)
Any company that doesn't think that way wouldn't get to where they are today. There is a nitch for easy-to-use GUI, compatible with almost everything, and abundant software availability. They did it, others either try to follow or mock their ways and end up with a single digit % of the market. If I saw a sales guy working for me who was only going for 25% of the market so the competition could have their share, I would fire him.
Re:Microsoft... (Score:2)