Symantec Launches Anti-Spyware Beta 319
daria42 writes "Symantec has launched the beta test version of its anti-spyware application, which will be sold from June as part of Norton Internet Security 2005. The company's Norman Kohlberger said the main aim of the new combined product was to make PC security as easy as possible for the end user. 'The computer is not a toy anymore. It has turned into a toaster and microwave -- it has become an integral part of the home environment,' he said. 'We have to reduce the complexity. People do not want privacy software, firewall, antivirus, spyware, adware and blended threats. The average individual is saying I don't want this anymore. Just fix it. What we are doing is reducing the complexity.'"
Challenge (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll tell you why. They want to make more money off of this. Each and every service that Symantec provides is a de facto necessity to windows users, whether they get the services from Symantec or from some other company.
My challege to a startup out there: Create a complete Windows package that protects users, AND charge very little money for it.
Windows that protects users (Score:3, Funny)
Sounds like a great idea!
Windows with all network code removed.
Windows XP NN?
Re:Windows that protects users (Score:4, Funny)
uh, fdisk?
Re:Challenge (Score:2, Informative)
Right now I use CA eTrust virus and MS AntiSpyware.
Re:Challenge (Score:2, Informative)
2) Ad-aware
3) Spybot
4) AVG Free edition
Never had a virus or spyware problem.
Re:Challenge (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Challenge (Score:2)
Next time, ask questions instead of making assumptions. You
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Challenge (Score:3, Funny)
I've got a Mac ;-)
Ok, so the virus thing is a minor threat, but seriously - I live within an acceptable level of risk, all things considered.
It's not obvious when one is infected (Score:3, Interesting)
Certainly. The last time I was infected (stoned? jerusalem? I don't remember). I could totally tell that I was infected. I mean, who could possibly miss the extra 25 cycles it took to start a program? And the extra 2k of RAM that had gone away?
That was a while ago, but I believe that there is still malware today (botnets come to mind) that are designed to not be visible. And it is certainly possible
Re:Challenge (Score:2)
Every time this subject comes up ... (Score:4, Informative)
First off, if your router has a DMZ, then you are running a firewall.
As for the rest, without running current anti-virus software, you won't know if you have a virus.
The same with spyware.
The fact is, "common sense" will not prevent you from accidentally typing in a wrong URL and ending up at a site that would exploit IE.
The same with Outlook Express. There is nothing stopping someone else from sending you email with a virus that would exploit an auto-run sequence.
"Common sense" is knowing that Windows is vulnerable and needs to be protected.
"Common sense" is running the necessary protections and keeping them updated.
Re:Every time this subject comes up ... (Score:2)
I said I never had a spyware PROBLEM. I didn't say I've never gotten spyware on my machine. I have, its immediately noticed, and removed.
Please link to any existing auto-run exploits in Outlook Express. Please be aware that I read all messages in plain text mode.
I do update my machine whenever new vulnerabilities are released. That is part of the common sense I was referring to.
Re:Challenge (Score:2, Informative)
Run Antivir or ClamAV, find way too many copies of Klez or something else Norton AV should have caught.
Customer goes home, immediatly install
Re:Challenge (Score:2)
Obviously there is the uninformed person, and they will probably remove Norton and then install something else - which is bad. It is not Nortons (or Windows) fault, however. They put something in place to protect the customer - the customer does not like it and wants to swap (its the customers own fault if something goes bad). Personally, whenever I get a computer - I reformat it, install all th
Re:Challenge (Score:2)
Re:Challenge (Score:2)
Re:Challenge (Score:2)
Symantec isn't worth the time it takes to recycle their documentation IMO. Not to mention that their software just can't manage to work with Thunderbird mail files. eTrust has no problem that I've seen. And if you do a competitive upgrade from Symantec, you can get a 3 year antivrus subscription pretty cheap -- between $
Re:Challenge (Score:3, Interesting)
The disabling of Norton is a known issue. Many viruses target Norton first.
This affected one Dell Inspiron 9100, another Dell (i forget the model, but it was bought in October 2004, same as the Inspiron 9100), a Toshiba S901, and a AMD 2200 Desktop. My co-worker (a very bright systems engineer) also has seen Norton deteriorate over the years. I used to love Norton, used it for years. I would recommend it to everyone - and on occasion when it
Re:Challenge (Score:2)
Besides, I do play a lot of games and like to be able to use those games without any problems. Or worry if my video card has the driver, etc. When Linux becomes a bit more mainstream then i will be able to justify doing it... Another issue, I need to be able to maintain Windows for compatability wit
Re:Challenge (Score:2, Interesting)
I'd pay $64 for protection for the lifetime of the OS (which is what, ~4 years?) or a pure subscription of say ~$15/year.
I, too, don't like the separate products. And I don't understand what took them so damn long to include protection from spyware and other malware. I want it a part of Norton anti-virus - one program running that protects me, as you said. I think Sym
Re:Challenge (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll tell you why. They want to make more money off of this.
No way! Really? Wow, yeah you're right. Everything falls into place now. No wonder MS didn't bundle Office with their OS. It's all some devilish scheme to create profit!
Yeah, but... (Score:2)
Re:Challenge (Score:2)
I uninstall the "all in one" security packages whenever I see them.
Re:Challenge (Score:2, Insightful)
Panda AV best in my lab (Score:2, Interesting)
Far and away, the best at finding viruses is Panda. Not only does it find on average two to three viruses that Norton's and Mcafee will miss, but it also doesn't bog down your system.
It used to be the lowest priced AV, and while this is no longer the case (probably due to the drop in the dollar -- they are Spanish, er Basque) it is worth the price. Their latest produc
Timetraveller's Trouble (Score:2, Interesting)
For full disclosure, while I used to sell a lot of Panda when I worked in a comuter shop, I wasn't on commission -- I sold it because it worked and I wouldn't have
Re:Challenge (Score:2)
If these products succeed, we will have to endure many more years of windows.
Re:Challenge (Score:2)
How do you figure?
Re:Challenge (Score:2)
Let's Cook (Score:2)
Well, if you're using Intel processers, yeah...
Re:I call bullshit (Score:2, Insightful)
There are plenty of browser exploits out there too. Try getting a no-CD crack off a dodgy website with IE. I've seen someone snared that way (WITHOUT downloading the crack) in couple of minutes.
And in general it's a good idea to scan something that you're not sure about anyway.
While I agree that Windows firewall is suff
Why? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Couldn't the Antivirus engine be used in place of building a new software package?
I understand the bottom line is, well, their bottom line, but doesn't spyware/malware/etc. share more in common with viruses than a glorified firewall?
A lot of antivirus products have become 'free after rebate', including their own. Why not bundle spyware definitions as part of a value-add instead, and rename the product "Norton
Norton Antivirus does (Score:3, Interesting)
Their virus package does include support for 'expanded threats' including spyware.
But their antivirus engine is designed to assume 'all viruses are bad.' This new product can --and does-- tread more carefully. It tells you what programs will stop functioning if a given adware module is removed. (accord
Re:Why? (Score:2, Insightful)
Not a Toy (Score:5, Funny)
Between the heatsink and the wifi card.. hes not wrong y'know!
R
Re:Not a Toy (Score:2)
One big problem (Score:4, Funny)
Differences with corporate? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd like to know if anyone can explain the difference between this new product and the corporate version that's been around for a while.
Bullshit! (Score:4, Insightful)
You'd better use Microsoft Antispyware/Spybot/Adaware because Symantec's offering for corporate market is still lacking decent antispyware protection, although it is a great antivirus, much better that a Nortor Antivirus.
Re:Bullshit! (Score:2, Informative)
It also has detected spyware during a system scan. It's nowhere near as good as spybot, adaware, and MS anti-spyware...but it blocks the worst stuff and with each definition and engine update, it's getting better.
Re:Money? (Score:2, Informative)
The updated virus defs can be tested on a single machine before being released to the whole company. You can start scans of individual computers or for fun, start the whole company on a full system scan at once. It has a centralized quarantine and all alerts are logged in one place, so you can see when Mr.CEO clicks on that attachment you told the whole company not to click on. It seems to take up less memory probably because it doesn'
Too late to the game (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too late to the game (Score:2)
Re:Too late to the game (Score:5, Insightful)
Names like "Lavasoft" and "Spybot" don't inspire corporate confidence, even if the products are very, very good at what they do.
Symantec makes sense, but I don't like their products. My experience is they create more problems than they solve.
Re:Too late to the game (Score:3, Interesting)
Parent is right on. PHBs everywhere will glom onto the new Symentec product simply because it is Symantec. Meanwhile I have to suffer through parsing the entire Spybot Search and Destroy EULA every time someone else has a question about my using a "non-approved" piece of software on my machine. ("Freeware. It means I can use it for free. No restrictions. Even on a business machine. Read what it says!")
My experience is they create more problems than they solve.
I can't add to this from my own experi
Re:Too late to the game (Score:2)
Um, I'm pretty sure Desktop Support's concern isn't that you're running pirated software on your corporate PC.
See the other part of the EULA, where Spybot disclaims the software's suitability for any use? See the big "Use at your own risk!" in the app's title bar?
They're afraid that by runnin
LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
And what the rest of the industry is doing, is fixing the problem instead. I just love marketing BS... Consumer says fix it, company says we've reduced the complexity, customer still sitting waiting for fix.
consumers think spyware = virus, and they're right (Score:5, Interesting)
The customer is sitting there wondering why their "antivirus" (or worse, "internet security"...I love that one) software isn't protecting them from a self-installing, replicating program they didn't want installed, which crashes their system and/or slows it down. I've seen spyware/adware/malware act like viruses (modifying/inserting itself into DLLs and whatnot) and worms (searching for other systems to infect) and trojans (how some of them "hide" from the user in plain sight). Snooty computer scientists get all huffy when you call a spyware program a "virus", but let's be completely upfront here- spyware/adware is just a trojan/worm/virus with commercial purpose.
Every uneducated computer user whose system I've fixed for spyware has asked the same two questions: "why doesn't my antivirus software protect me from this?" (and indeed, the software is installed, definitions are current) and "isn't this spyware stuff a virus?"
Fact remains that for all the crap hype- in at least a decade, "antivirus" technology hasn't improved. Much/all of it is based off the good old standby- definition files. Those worked when viruses took weeks to spread. Now they spread in hours- or less.
My favorite story about how useless antivirus software can be comes from 2000, when one of the worms going around got right past our antivirus software on our mail server. We looked at the one that got quarantined, and the one that didn't- and for an hour or two, we couldn't find any differences. Only when I loaded both onto my powerbook and opened them in BBedit, turning on "show all hidden characters", did I see that one had carriage returns and line feeds- the other only had one (CR's, I think). Because of this very simple change, the worm got right past our antivirus software. How idiotic is that?
I work for a (large) AV company... (Score:2)
In fact, it's worse than this: our current products' interfaces now say Spyware/Greyware... and I have it on good authority that this is because of the threat of legal action from the producer of a spyware program who insists that their product is legit.
If Joe Sixpack
Re:LOL (Score:2)
Missing the point (Score:2, Insightful)
Sorry to say, but most people seem to be missing the point. Most people have been brainwashed to think they need anti-virus programs, they need spyware removal apps... they really don't. They just need a secure enviornment - web browser, OS, etc. Even windows can be secured to the point where you don't need antivirus, it's just not set up that way by default and is of course "inconvinient"
Re:Missing the point (Score:5, Insightful)
They said, "How do you keep from getting infected?"
To which I replied, "I don't use IE, I don't go places I shouldn't and I don't run suspicious programs."
Protection programs are all well and good, but users need to also learn proper usage techniques.
Re:Missing the point (Score:2)
And you keep all your software updated.
Most of the problems I see at work are related to our clients never updating their software. Finally with XP SP2, Microsoft is really pushing for the automatic updates, which advanced users may turn off to have more control, but which really should be the default for the mASSES.
Re:Missing the point (Score:2)
My email is done through Yahoo mail, so I don't have to worry about mail client exploits. I use Opera, so all the IE exploits don't bother me. If I happen to come across a suspicious executable, I usually pop it in a hex editor to get some clue as to what it does.
All I'm saying is that a little common sense goes a very long way with this
Re:Missing the point (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Missing the point (Score:2)
Re:Missing the point (Score:2)
Another product reduces complexity??? (Score:2)
If you want a simpler system that resists spyware (and viruses) by a mac or run linux.
(and yes, my kid's grandmother gets around just fine with KDE...)
Re:Another product reduces complexity??? (Score:2)
My kids'... That has to imply at least twice, right?
Whatever happened to Norton? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Whatever happened to Norton? (Score:2)
A brand name who gets a cut of every Symantec product with his name on it. A very wealthy brand name. A brand name who is very big in the modern arts community. A brand name who liked his city (Santa Monica) so much that he put a clause in his contract selling The Peter Norton Group to Symantec that required them to maintain a Santa Monica office. A very smart brand name.
Effectiveness? (Score:5, Insightful)
convenient for Symantec, too (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:convenient for Symantec, too (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:convenient for Symantec, too (Score:2)
And yes, Indian food wRoKz0rZ.
Symantec ain't all that.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, their installs are some of the worst to deal with. Their auto-uninstalls of their old products -- which occurs prior to upgrading -- is horrible. We had to spend tons of time writing our own scripts. We finally tried out Trend Micro and found that it did a better job of auto-uninstalling Symantec's products than Symantec did.
I'm still talking enterprise here, but Trend has a far better admin console than Symantec. Trend gives tons of information on each system. Symantec is childish by comparison. Trend reporting is far better too. Trend has more of a "build your own wheel" feel to it, but for sys admins it rocks. Symantec's roots are from the single, desktop computer and that's the feel you get for it as an admin. Administration is an afterthought. Trend seems to be built by administrators for administrators and I like it.
Besides all that, the answer to spyware isn't what Symantec would have you think -- namely, *them*. The answer is first: install Firefox (install it fool!) and ban IE. Second, make patch management a priority. After that, you can put gravy on it by removing root off workstations for users, but FF and PM are key. As a matter of fact, I argue that if you do those two things you just about don't even need AV -- especially doing Firefox. Hey, can you tell I like Firefox?...
If it runs as slow as ... (Score:5, Funny)
You don't believe me?
Running both tools on the same box would lead to absolutely no CPU cycles left over for either virus or spyware to run...
Symantec Effectiveness (Score:5, Interesting)
When I got into the computer repair business, I installed Symantec products on almost every machine that came through my doors (if they weren't already equipped already). Now I am a strong advocate of AVG antivirus. I can't tell you how many times I've seen computers with Norton Antivirus that had a) up to date subscriptions b) up to date definitions and c) reported that the system was clean after scanning. Then, I'd uninstall Norton and install AVG, bamf, 6 viruses found.
If their spyware removal is as effective as their virus removal (lately), you'll equal luck trying to remove those rogue search toolbars with a blender.Re:Symantec Effectiveness (Score:3, Insightful)
I make sure every friend I help out, and every user I work with, hears the simple command
"Don't use Symantec products!"
How about fixing Norton Firewall first (Score:2, Funny)
I'm sorry, the computer is *NOT* a Toaster! (Score:4, Insightful)
Similarly, anyone using a computer should be able to understand and implement basic security practices and do minor OS and hardware maintenance and repairs. The fundamental problem is that people are just too damn lazy to learn how to do these simple things, and Symantec is capitalizing on that.
Re:I'm sorry, the computer is *NOT* a Toaster! (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not going to claim that the automobile used to be an "open standard", but look at what's happened to them over the last century. They've gotten more complicated, but that complexity is hidden from the end user. It's created this culture that one shouldn't understand how their car works, and the knee-jerk reaction when something goes wrong is to take it to the dealership. As a result, dealerships get to charge hundreds of dollars for
Re:I'm sorry, the computer is *NOT* a Toaster! (Score:2)
The trend in most devices is to gradually reduce the knowledge and work required of the user: Records -> CDs -> Solid state players, for example.
The fact that you think "users/drivers ought to know about these things" doesn't change th
Re:I'm sorry, the computer is *NOT* a Toaster! (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess it's like sitting me down in front of a nuclear reactor and suggesting that I'm lazy because I can't figure out how to flush the coolant... I'm not trying things because I know I could blow everything up. A lot of people feel like this about their computer.
Re:Or buy an OS that isn't subject to this bullshi (Score:2, Informative)
Wow...that was fun...
Maniacal raving flames aside, I'll be the first to agree with you. As an I.T. guy (not former), I readily admit that the piss-poor state of M$ operating systems keep food on my table.
I LOVE spyware...spyware alone pays my mortgage.
Tradeoff (Score:5, Insightful)
1. spyware/malware/adaware
2. Excessive amount of utilities from various vendors to prevent spyware/malware/adaware.
Oh that's how it works! The anti-spyware TSRs take up so much memory there's no room left for teh evil sofwtare to get a foot in!
I don't like this (Score:2)
It is because of a flawed operating system design being operated by, in general, the computer morons out there that is 90% of our society. Most of the computer users will always be clueless, and that is why we need a safe operating system.
Although Windows is flawed in this respect I must admit that I'm a computer professional that has been around for a while, and I didn't foresee that w
Re:I don't like this (Score:2)
I'm talking about how the design in windows is flawed from a security perspective. And that started 10 - 15 years ago with Win 3.1 and Win 95.
Hmm, an advert masquerading as news... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Hmm, an advert masquerading as news... (Score:2)
Why Did It Take Them So Long (Score:2)
Simplicity is not always good (Score:2, Informative)
Computer as toaster (Score:2)
Turn it around if you prefer: I never saw a word processor whose only preference was Light...Dark.
Einstein had it right: as simple as possible, but not simpler.
Norton is useless (Score:3, Interesting)
I work at a "mom and pop" type computer store. 80% of these computers that come in had Norton Systemworks installed, with the latest definitions. Yet still they are full of viruses that both AVG and Trendmicro's Housecall detects. The sad part is, the sales of Symantec's products are driven by the need for Best Buy employees to sell more product. So with every new PC they are telling customers to spend money on useless virus scanning software.
The fact is, the best virus scanning and adware scanning software is completely free. Without any hitches. So why would I want to pay for anything when the free product is better in almost every way?
I have also found that Norton fails to uninstall properly in many comptuers. They even have removal utilities to remove their software. I think that this is completely rediculous. If software can't be removed properly from a machine, I dictate that this is no better than Malware. So in essence, installing Norton on your computer is no better than installing Bargian Buddy.
Re:Norton is useless (Score:3, Informative)
What I use in the white box store I work in is Ad-Aware & Spybot for ad/spy/malware and Trend for virus cleanups. I have found that McAfee is also very good at clean up. Fprot seems to be the best at prevention, we have used it on everything in the store for over 3 years and I have had it at ho
Question (Score:2)
Which would you recommend, Trend or AVG, and why?
Thanks!
What the average user needs. (Score:2)
Then the average user needs this [apple.com] I hate to sound like an Apple fanboy because I've only had mine for the past few months. But after spending all day fixing spyware/adware/viruses on PC's it is nice to come home to the Mini and USE the computer.
Company Issues Press Release (Score:4, Funny)
According to popular Internet news/blog site Slashdot (http://slasshdot.org/ [slasshdot.org]), well-known companty Symantec has, in an unprecedented act, issued a press release in order to promote its products.
"This is truly a breakthrough in marketing approaches," said a Slashdot employee who asked not to be identified, "never before has a company gone to such lengths to promote a product. Slashdot is proud to break the news of this historic event." While some believe that this was an inevitable extension of current marketing approaches, many more are stunned by the sudden change in tactics.
Mary Weatherspoon, a seasoned marketing consultant, is one of those surprised by Symantec's sudden release. "The whole industry has been turned upside-down. We'd heard inklings of using mass-media to promote products, but none of us had ever thought about treating new products -- especially products that aren't really groundbreaking -- as actual, hand-to-god news," she said.
Slashdot management did not respond to requests for comment before deadline.
BR's comments. (Score:2)
What a POS (Score:2, Informative)
I'll say it.. (Score:2)
Ad-aware.
Spybot S&D.
Avast! Antivirus.
A good HOSTS file.
$0 spent for world-class protection.
Symantec's stuff, spend a bundle, pray that it installs and actually runs without having to pore over endless documentation or downloads. Or worse, calling their tech support line and PRAY that their system does not hang up on you. Not my kind of idea spending a afternoon dealing with software issues.
Oh, did I also mention that Avast has AV distros that are built for *
It's a joke (Score:3, Informative)
Symantec lost the game a long time ago-- there are much better (and cheaper) ways to keep your PC afloat.
Re: (Score:2)
How long till they get sued? (Score:2)
How long will it be before Symantec gets sued by one of the scumware creators for identifying their program as "spyware".
Re:How long willl Symantic Go ? (Score:2)
http://news.com.com/Details+of+Microsoft+antiviru
Re:Wait... (Score:3, Funny)
Yup...just follow this simple guide: