Microsoft to Disable Online Windows Activation

CasterPod writes "As of February 28, Windows users who purchased their PC will no longer be able to reinstall without calling Microsoft and answering a series of questions. The move is part of an anti-piracy effort to close 'a loophole that enabled unscrupulous resellers to use Windows XP product keys that were stolen from large OEMs.' Specifically, Certificate of Authenticity (COA) labels on PCs are often unused because OEMs preinstall Windows and bypass product activation. The product keys can therefore be stolen and reused. First WGA, and now this."

Good Move Microsoft!!!!

Now you will be forcing more people to move over to Linux and Mac computers!!!

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

ttyl
Farrell

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

Amazing how that works, isn't it. I could see it being worth it if everyone loved Windows. But the only reason people even use it in the first place is because it's easy. Something idiotic like this makes it a LOT less so. Linux on the other hand, making pretty big inroads. No pointless activation sequences where you have to call anyone. Probably never will be, except with Xandros (but I doubt it). Hey, there's a selling point right there. Buy linux, and don't have to call anyone who will make you answer stupid pointless questions. Woo hoo! I'm sold. This is exactly the kind of thing they want to do just before they release Expidition. Although, I wonder how much more secure it's actually going to be.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

I cannot help but wonder whether top level management at MS got a bad batch of LSD and its done something to their brains.

They're going to force you to call them, they'll probably have all their call centers outsourced to countries where english isn't the main language. Half the time you won't understand the question and if you do manage to decifer the accent, they won't understand yours.

The only reason left to use windows is gaming. And even that is becoming less and less of a reason...

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

I recently had to call MS to activate Office 2003 (too many installs). It took me nearly 25 minutes to get through to the nice (english is my second language) woman I spoke with. While she was quite helpful and only asked once (why so many installs) I still felt like I had been dragged down town and put under birght lights to be interrogated. This will be a wonderful experience for everyone, why, once we all know what criminals feel like, then none of us will be tempted will we?

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

If I'm going to be punished, I may as well commit the crime.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

"If I'm going to be punished, I may as well commit the crime."

Ya know, if MS were to say "Since this will cut down on piracy, we're going to pre-emptively lower prices..." I might be a little less offended. But this never happens, does it? I mean, billions and billions of dollars are claimed to be lost due to piracy, but has Valve made HL2 cheaper? Ugh.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

Speaking of reducing prices, read the latest Cringely column. He predicts Microsoft will net billions more in revenue by issuing their antispyware software free.

And here I thought Bill was finally smart enough to realize that charging for the ASW product would be a pittance in revenue compared to the bad publicity about charging for fixes to one's own flaws.

When in reality, the point of releasing the ASW software for free was to put the other companies out of business and force 100 million upgrades to XP SP2, thereby generating billions more in revenue.

In other words, as Cringely puts it, even Microsoft's "good" actions have a predatory purpose.

Fortunately Cringely also suggests this will hurt Microsoft later.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

Anyone else feel like this when the "door nazi" at BestBuy/other chain steps in front of you and demands to see your receipt? Treating your customers like they're potential criminals is no way to gain loyalty.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

I walked out at Sam's Club one time without showing my receipt. They guy stopped me to see my receipt. I said, "no. what are you going to do about it?" He said he would call the police!! LOL! The stuff in my hands is MINE, because the money I gave them is now THEIRS. I think the police would laugh at him too!

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

They can hold you if they have "reasonable suspicion" that you have committed theft (at least in Washington state) and that is what the cops are used to being called out for to retail stores. However, simply walking out the door doesn't sound like "reasonable suspicion" to me, and you'd probably have a good case against THEM for unlawful imprisonment. Ask the cops about it when they show up--it's a fun way of turning the tables. :)

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

Sam's is different, you signed a contract there.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

Absolutely true. I've worked in retail and I KNOW that there was a lot of product walking out. But our management told us, never NEVER attempt to detain someone unless you actually saw them take an item off the shelf, hide it on their person, and try to leave the store without paying. Oh, and you had to keep them under observation the whole time, to make sure that they didn't remove the item from their person before leaving. The losses are insured, the false imprisonment charges and any following lawsuits are not.
I think I called the police once, on a guy who stole a $0.95 auto-trader magazine. It was pretty funny :)

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

I have never shoplifted, btw.

If you want to have some real fun, just keep walking out the door when the Wal-mar security alarm goes off. It is even more entertaining when the door nazi tries to stop you. But if you walk with just the right spring in your step and determiniation that you are not going to stop, they will let you go. Most states have laws stating that in order to be stopped someone has had to watch you from the moment of concelment to the point of leaving the store. Since most employees don't do that, they rely on the fact of you admitting the theft when you are caught. I have had one Wal-mart guy stop me once. I just looked at him and asked him, "What did I steal?" He just looked at me with a blank stare. I then told him that if the inept cashier would do his job and disable the security tags that it wouldn't have happened, and for him to have a nice day. I walked away, got in my car and left. No problem.

But for some real fun, you take the undisabled security tag and then put it in your wallet. Everytime you walk into a store or leave a store the security tags set off the alarm. If you get five or so of your buddies to do the same thing, and enter and leave a store at the same time, one after another, it causes some real fun. You usually get the store manager throwing some vague threats of calling the police. Since you didn't steal and they can't prove it, the ensueing frustration is always entertaining. BTW, only do that if you have a little time.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

The whole idea of having a monoply is that being nice to the customer is not needed. You need them, and the other way around.

The idea of a company selling you on something with quality and good service is so, well 70's

Get with it.

Freedom is no longer a right, it is now a pivilege.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

Those people can't stop you. Just blow right by them. If they get in your way inform them that you are going to place them under citizen's arrest for unlawful imprisonment. The only time they have any grounds to stop you whatsoever is at sam's club, costco, et cetera. Those places are private clubs and they can revoke your membership if you don't show them the receipt; therefore you are trespassing. Of course, once you buy the stuff, you still own it, but it behooves you to let them see your receipt there.

When I leave Fry's I sometimes have the receipt out for them to glance at, and I rarely break stride on my way out the door. Wal-mart has been checking receipts for unbagged or large items, too; so far I've been with my girlfriend every time and don't want to embarrass her, but the fact is that once you buy it, the product and the receipt are both yours and you are well within your rights to just walk on by.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

I hate those "door nazis" too but you do realize that they're there because the company is suspicious of its employees right?

The scam they're looking for is you walking out with (say) an iPod and some headphones but the cashier only charging you for the headphones. Then you take the iPod to a fence and you and the cashier split the proceeds. That's why harass you for the most stupid and cursory check.

So yea, they suspect you of being a criminal, but their employees hate them so much (and vice versa I suppose) that what you're actually seeing is a manifestation of a festering pool of mutual hatred.

Really makes you want to go and shop there, right? For stuff they sell, stick to mail order.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

Had a problem like this recently at a public reference library. They had a rent-a-cop posted at the door searching the bags of everyone exiting. He asked, 'May I look in your bag, sir?' I said, 'No, sorry.' and kept walking. Guy started yelling at me, to the effect that I am not allowed back in the library, that sort of thing.

Well, of course, I had gone out only for 20 minutes and came back in (entrance is seperate from the exit, so he didn't see me), but on my way out again, he stepped in front of me and said, 'You are not leaving until you open your bag.' I replied 'Wrong. I'm leaving. Call the police if you like.' More yelling ensued.

A public library! I was there with my (mortified) girlfriend, who happily opened her bag twice. The worst part is that their 'examination' of the bags are so cursory as to be useless. My girlfriend had four books in her bag from another library, indistinguishable without removing and examining them. But she gets waved by. They have a magnetic-strip-beeping-system-thingie, so what's the point? Better to post those goofs somewhere where they can prevent real damage and loss to the library: making sure that people don't bring food in. While I was there--I'm not making this up--I saw a guy with a whole Big Mac meal pawing through a stack of journals from the thirties. Gimmie a break!

Bah.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

The only reason left to use windows is gaming.

Cool. I can hardly wait to get to the office today.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

I cannot help but wonder whether top level management at MS got a bad batch of LSD and its done something to their brains.

Hey! It worked for Steve Jobs :-)

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

>> probably closely related to the Second Law of Termodynamics

For those who don't know, the Second Law of Termodynamics reads as follows: "For every post that contains a correctly used term, another 5 posts on slashdot will contain misused, mithspelled(pun) or misunderstood terms.

This is closely related to the Theory of Repostivity.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

Buy linux, and don't have to call anyone who will make you answer stupid pointless questions.

Instead, it'll be the users asking the stupid questions.

"I bought your Linux at Barnes & Noble. Why doesn't it work?"

"Last week I called and you told me how to install your Linux. Why doesn't my Word Perfect CD work any more?"

"The other day you made me install something called StarOffice. I think that messed up my son's Doom 3 CD. It used to work before we installed your Linux."

That'll be fantastic.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

People aren't stupid. Let me say that again: people are not stupid, they are not dumb, they are not morons (with a few exceptions - and they are _few_). What they are, by and large, is interested in other things than computing - like, for instance, the work or play they want to accomplish with their computers, rather than the machines themselves.

People are perfectly able to understand the difference between Windows, OSX and Linux - they just don't particularily care. And in that situation, yes, put up enough roadblocks to Windows use and people will gradually switch, just like US people abandoned domestic cars for Japanese ones when they became compelling enough. Not everybody switched, and not all at once (since everybody has a different tipping point), but certainly enough to change the commercial landscape.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

People aren't stupid. Let me say that again: people are not stupid, they are not dumb, they are not morons

Yes, they are. People are stupid. Individuals are intelligent. People are not. Here is a little advice for you. If you go through life thinking people are stupid you will be a lot less dissappointed. Keep your expectations set low and you will seldom be let down.

--
All spelling, gammer, and logical mistakes are intentinal because I'm to fucking lazy to look it up. If you don't like it, Fuck Off!

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

But in your example, you're not actually trying to fly the plane.

Most people just now entering the market for computers aren't "trying to fly the plane", either. To continue the analogy, these people want to be passengers but are instead told they need to learn to be pilots.

This trend is not new to computers-- earlier this century the first radios required considerable setup and weeks to learn to use. The first phonographs were notoriously hard to use, again taking several weeks for smart folks to learn to use.

The only reason radios and record players (now CD players) are so widespread is their usage was simplified. The earliest ones even had two competing incompatible standards (Edison vs. Victor.) Sound familiar?

The book "The Invisible Computer" by Donald Norman goes into gory detail on why the continuing efforts to blame the users for failing to learn their equipment aren't going to work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Booksources/0 262640414 [wikipedia.org]

This doesn't mean that in the current state of things people should be lazy about their responsibilities with a networked computer-- e.g. not patching because "it's too hard" is a lame excuse.

If this is too hard, then disconnect from the network or find a computer/OS combination where it isn't too hard. If there is no such computer/OS combination, then start asking the manufacturers for one.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

You must have never worked in tech support. People are stupid. To reiterate, people are stupid.

That's a rather biased statistical sampling though. Yes, you will get an unending stream of remarkably stupid people calling tech support. As a total percentage of computer users, however, they make up rather less than you think. The GP post is correct - the majority of people don't really care (because it is not important to their lives) about Linux, but that doesn't mean they will be stupid enough to try and run Windows software on Linux.

Yes, you will have an unending stream of stupid people who tried to run Microsoft Word on Linux and don't understand why it works. Remember that you also had an unending stream of people that couldn't even use Windows either. If everyone was as stupid as the average tech support caller the internet would be practically content free.

Jedidiah.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

You can't have "manslaughter" without "laughter".

No no no, that's supposed to be:

One manslaughter is another man's laughter.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

Actually, you are really, really, really wrong.

XP has a fantastic penetration rate for MS. There are very few users not in a corporate setting using Windows 2000. Most users before XP were on 98, 98SE, or ME. As those users replace their computers, they got a big dose of XP. The die hard Windows-fanboys upgraded legally or not - to XP a long time ago.

MS sells Windows by attrition - those PII and PIII boxes out there have been replaced by newer PCs running XP.

MS hasn't released much in the way of sales numbers, but XP is very well represented in the total slice of Windows users. I the most recent PDC (Professional Developer Conference), an MS VP of Sales suggested that XP was about 60% of all Windows users. XP or 2K represented almost 75% of all Windows users. That means that the really legacy products - 95, 98, and NT4 represent less than 1 in 4. That's a damn good rate for any business.

MS is rapidly consilidating its users on the same platform. Before XP, you had two entire different product lines. MS has finally merged them into one line, and the userbase is very happily consolidating.

Make no mistake, MS is generally very happy with XP adoption rates.

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

What the catcher is, you calling them to activate is technically a support call.
Not, that is blantantly untrue.

Product Activation is it's own group at Microsoft, seperately administered and staffed from all other units, including technical support. The call centers of PA are completely seperate from all other functions.

There is never, and has never been a charge associated with activation.

Additionally, Microsoft does not charge per minute technical support rates, and as far as I can tell, never has.

For desktop products, like Windows XP and Office for example, the fee is $0, $25, $245. Most are free, additional support - like programming a macro or something of that nature, costs $25. Dealing with server-technologies, company wide networking, or other business technologies generally cost $245. These fees are per incident, regardless of how long it takes or how many people you have to talk to. I worked with an MS support person once for 4 days, 9-5 pm, 8 hrs a day, to solve a critical problem with networking. Fee? $245.

I suggest you learn a little bit more about MS and thier support services before you go spouting off about what you remember.

Here are some links:
http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=e n-us&x=12&y=15&c1=509&prid=3518&gprid=185522 [microsoft.com]

Re:Good Move Microsoft!!!!

Your $245 nework seemed to be worth it. I've had the exact opposite. Active/active clustering of an Exchange system. Worked with them for over 2 weeks trying to get it to work reliably. The final verdict? Upgrade to 2003 "which has better support for clustering" or move to active/passive. Can you explain WTF better support for clustering means? Either the shit works or not. We were told that 2000 supported exchange clustering in that configuration but apperently it does not. So.. we basically spent about 60 hours of time trying to get it too work the way it is supposed to and paid $245 for them to tell us to upgrade to the new and improved to get the functionality we already paid for in 2000 server.

Great. Just what I want to do.

Right when I am peeved that I had to re-install, I have to get back on the phone with M$. Enough is enough - has their 'activation' programs really impacted priacy at all? Has it done anything beyond bother paying users?

Re:Great. Just what I want to do.

Right when I am peeved that I had to re-install, I have to get back on the phone with M$.

Don't worry, it shouldn't affect you. According to the Juniper research guy in the article you don't really need to reinstall your computer after all.

"Seeing as how the typical OEM would normally preactivate Windows XP, most legitimate users shouldn't have much need to go through the activation process,"

See, it's all better. When you buy your computer, that's the OS you get to use for the entire life of the computer and certainly no one at Microsoft tech support or anywhere else would ever ask you to reinstall. Have a nice day.

TW

Re:Great. Just what I want to do.

I know you were being sarcastic, but what about impossible-to-clean spyware [slashdot.org]? If stuff like this gets widespread some users won't have a choice, and Microsoft doesn't look set on making the install process any easier.

Re:Great. Just what I want to do.

I know this is a bit advanced so it is not for the "average" computer user. But what I do is...

Set up my computer the way I want it, All MS Software activated, such as office. (FYI this works with Windows Server 2003)

1. Boot to Gentoo Live CD
2. dd if=/dev/hda | bzip2 > /mnt/where/I/mounted/my/rev/drive (35GB) (you can use external HD, or your favorite mass storage device)

When spyware or just general Windows Entropy slows the system down too much, I back up my data...
1. Boot to Gentoo Live CD
2. dd of=/mnt/where/I/mounted/my/rev/drive | bzip2 -d > /dev/hda
3. Reboot
4. Use windows normally, have to re-install games
5. ...
6. Profit?


The one "Bad Thing"(TM) about this is that data has to be on a separate disk. You can also modify the above to use partitions and have all data on a different partition. Though with any windows reinstall it is a good idea to reformat, with slow version, the partition to NTFS. So you'd have to do this in either case.

Anyway This works well and gets around that stupid reactivation crap, now I'm *VERY* glad I do this.

And remember kids, ALWAYS backup your data on a normal basis. HDs will fail!!! There is no question, they will fail. If I was not clear let me repeat that, THEY WILL FAIL!!!!! You need backups, and if you do this as you should, the above process will be less of a fuss.

Microsoft to Disable Online Windows Activation

*This* is the reason we don't want monopolies abusing their power/position - they can impose whatever onerous conditions they like, and you just have to play along.

Whaddya gonna do - install *another* OS???

Re:Microsoft to Disable Online Windows Activation

I think the fanboys can be silly at times too, but lets be honest, "ever" is a very, very, very long time. Free or not, who knows? Maybe someone can come out with something better 3 years down the line. Fast, flexible, easy to use, relatively bug free - think Firefox, but an OS this time.

Then again, until I can play _all_ of my games (at least the relatively current ones) on it, I'm not switching. Although I do use Gentoo on my non-gaming systems.

Re:Microsoft to Disable Online Windows Activation

Microsoft has every right to verify that people using their software do indeed have a license to use their software. And let's be honest, no matter what they do you're going to hate them and flame them.

• Sure they have that right, but they're adding more and more conditions on how you prove it. They're also starting to restrict more and more things that customers require until they can prove they own the software. (Security updates, reinstall activation so far. What's next, will they require you to prove you own the OS before you can install a driver?) What about customers who lost their CD/CD Case but have a legit copy? Is it right to tell them to FOAD because of that? Should I really have to waste 3-5 minutes of my time to
• prove I'm not a crook. That's what it boils down to, MS doesn't care so much about their customers, in fact they're beating them to death with the anti-piracy club while the pirates happily install their no-activation copies they downloaded.

You should be thankful they're not giving it away free or you could kiss goodbye to something other than Windows ever being on a computer's desktop.

• Actually with all the security problems and the growing concern/upset over it I'm not sure MS could effectively take over the OS market by giving Windows away anymore. You're starting to see your average Joe Users out there worried about using Windows. Steps like they're taking now certainly don't help, would you trust them not to apply onerous demands later on after they gave you Windows for free? I'm not sure anyone would, and I'm not talking just the /. crowd, but average people too.

Re:Microsoft to Disable Online Windows Activation

In my experience, when you've lost the CD case you've also lost the CD that comes inside it.

• I disagree, personally I have so many CDs (software, audio, backups, etc.) that I keep everything in CD wallet/notebook binders (whatever they're called). For me it's far easier to find the CD than the case. I'm much more likely to lose the case than the CD. I don't think I'm alone either, most all the people I've helped fix their computers keep their software CDs in binders too, it's really easy to put all the software in one small wallet and keep it by the computer, much more compact as well.

But getting back to your statement, if you've lost the case, you've lost the CD. Or, if you DO backup the CD to another CD, wouldn't you write the code ON the CD...I mean, you're going through all that trouble to back up the media, so why not back up the code?

• Well yeah, I do, but what about your average user who got a computer from an OEM and just thought to back up the CDs, not realizing they needed to write the codes down? That's the people this is going to hurt, you and I (and the whole /. crowd) will have our codes on the backups and we'd be fine. Well maybe not fine, we'd likely be ticked at the inconvenience, but we'd not be up the creek without a paddle.

But regardless of all this, MS is shooting themselves in the foot. The only one's they're hurting are the legit owners of their products...as always when it comes to piracy issues. It's like no one really get's it.

• My theory is it's all greed. Companies see the predictions of how much money they lose in piracy and the dollar signs flash in their eyes and they begin thinking "if we just stopped piracy all that money would be ours, and our sales would go up!" Of course this ignores the reality of the situation (that most pirates aren't going to bother paying in any case, they'll just find a way around whatever you throw at them), but greed has a way of doing that to people.

• One thing I wonder about is the article says the customers (aka victims of unscrupulous computer companies) will have to answer a series of questions to basically prove they at least _thought_ they had paid for a legit copy. What are they going to ask to prove this? "Do you swear allegiance to Microsoft and promise to buy all our future products?" :) Seriously though this seems even more moronic as what idiot isn't going to answer the questions in such a way to make it sound like they thought they'd bought a legit copy of Windows on their PC?

Stupid

Just means you will have to use a corp key which does not require activation. I know as a support tech I would never sit through a freaking queue every time I had to reactivate windows.

Re:Stupid

It's not so much the phone queue thats a problem. I've had to phone-activate Windows a number of times on customers machines where for one reason or another, Windows demanded activation before logging on. Trouble was, it wouldn't install the network card driver before it logged in, so there was no way for it to get online. But I digress...

The big pain in the ass in activating over the phone is reading the installation ID. It's not an actual person you talk to- you read the number aloud (as opposed to touch tone) to a computer. You have to speak slow and deliberately for it to understand the numbers correctly, and ultimately it will read a confirmation code back to you. The whole process takes about 5-7 minutes, depending on whether the computer understood you correctly the first time. That's the part that pisses me off about this. Whenever we have to reinstall Windows at my shop, it was easy enough to plug in to our router and activate in 2 seconds (all with legitimate keys mind you). If this holds true, it will piss off many many computer shops around the world. Two seconds vs. five minutes is a pretty big deal.

Re:Stupid

It's not an actual person you talk to- you read the number aloud (as opposed to touch tone) to a computer. You have to speak slow and deliberately for it to understand the numbers correctly, and ultimately it will read a confirmation code back to you. The whole process takes about 5-7 minutes, depending on whether the computer understood you correctly the first time.

You can speak slowly and deliberately to the computer, but you can still enter the numbers by touchtone.

Re:Stupid

I replaced my OEM preinstalled Windows XP with a pirated no-activation copy precisely because I didn't want to go through 'activation' if I change anything or need to reinstall it.

Why bother? It probably cost you more time replacing the version than you'd ever spend activating.

The lock-in argument: one day they might stop running the activation service? Sure, but one day they might release a service pack that detects your pirated version and stops it working. So the future isn't certain either way.

So why bother?

Only makes sense

Microsoft was dumb enough to put the product activation code on the outside of the damn PC. Anyone can walk into a store, take a pic of the code on a new PC (since they are bulk activated) and get free Windows.

This can only be good for free software however. Part of the Windows dominance comes from the fact that it is free for those who want it.

Original Media

I'm just waiting for the customer to ring up and say they don't have the original media. The last 3 PC's i know people have bought just come with a copy of Windows on a partition. If you run Fdisk then they are screwed

rus

it will be bypassed...

right now, it was easier to spread corporate (or educational) keys. Many of these don't require activation at all. Once MS disables this, crackers will resort to patching the activation code. .. It's just a matter of time, like the XBox was cracked eventually.

On the other hand : this will just make the difference between Windows and OSX/linux even more apparent. Every user-restricting move of microsoft is, in the long run, a shot in its own foot

Re:it will be bypassed...

"Once MS disables this, crackers will resort to patching the activation code. .. It's just a matter of time, like the XBox was cracked eventually."

Actually, the activation code has been stripped out of Windows XP in the pirate community since before day 1 of its official release.

Almost any type of copy protection, activation or otherwise is rapidly stripped out of software by cracking groups and released into the pirate community.

This announcement is a non issue for actual pirates of XP. It has zero impact to them. It impacts the PAYING user the most by making a procedure they shouldn't have to deal with in the first place an even bigger pain in the ass.

These types of measures always punish the paying customer and leave the pirates shaking their heads in disbelief over M$ not getting it.

Take your own advice

See, that's the kind of "users are idiots _and_ thieves" mentality that's causing the problem in the first place. (And not just Windows. I wish all those idiot game publishers who now even want to install low level copy protection drivers on my machine would die a slow painful death. Cancer, for example.)

The fact is, users may not be versed in fine points like configuring a firewall or understanding security threats (then again, 90%+ of programmers have no clue about security either), but they _can_ Google, you know. You'd be surprised how finding a copy-protection crack for just about _anything_ takes mere minutes. Even little old grandmas know how to google nowadays, or get told how to real quick.

Also those users do _not_ live in a vaccuum, as the software companies and movie producers seem to assume. They seem to think the Earth is made of some 6 billion hermits, each living on a separate mountain top, and never talking to each other. If one of them found out how to download a crack or warez on P2P, surely noone else can learn that from him or her. Sad to say, that's not how it works.

If they're friends or family of a pirate, guess what? They'll get an already patched CD from that pirate. Or a CD and including the patch program separately. And then copy that CD further for others.

Or they'll get pointed at www.gamecopyworld.com, or whatever other crack site fits their particular problem, by someone who knows. E.g., someone like me.

Now I don't support piracy, and in fact I'm firmly against it, but I support idiotic copy protection schemes even less. Copy protection just doesn't work. Period. As was said, the _only_ ones affected are the honest paying customers. And I'll be damned if I'm gonna support that kind of thing.

When someone bought a product, it wasn't because they're too stupid to google for a crack, it was because they actually wanted to go buy it. Whoever wanted to pirate the stuff, actually went and pirated it.

And then going and dragging the paying users through indignities like having to call tech support to get their product activated (oops, some kiddie with a serial number generator already used yours, so more time on the phone is needed), or like having copy-protection-related trouble in the game they paid for (we'll just make your game crash because your CD drive is called "E:" instead of "D:", so surely you're a bloody pirate with CD emulator software), is just stupid and uncalled for.

Not that it will stop greedy corporate fucks from doing it anyway. There's a class of people for whom money is the only thing in life, and worth pursuing no matter what collateral damage they cause. Even when they don't even get that money.

The thought "but we could make 100 extra bucks from the only 2 guys in the world who don't already know how to download a crack" just overloads their brains. They just _have_ to get that 100$ at all cost, even if it means kicking every single honest user in the teeth. With steel toed boots.

Re:it will be bypassed...

I would suggest that any move that Microsoft makes to combat piracy is a shot in its own foot.

The simple fact of the matter is that Microsoft software, compared to its competitors, is far and away the most expensive desktop software ever. Most people I know who pirate Windows do so because they simply can't afford to buy a copy. Granted, that's not many people since Windows comes with the computer, but I can say that I only know two people who have paid for their copies of MS Office - everyone else either pirates it or uses OpenOffice because they aren't at liberty to drop over half a week's pay on it. And in college I didn't know a single person who actually paid for a legal copy of VisualStudio - the unscrupulous pirated, and the scrupulous moved to *nix.

Which leads me to my point - if Microsoft tightens Windows down too much, people are going to start thinking, "Holy shit, this is expensive, and I'm sick of hunting for friends with Windows CDs. Hey, my Mac using friend never has to reinstall his OS, and a Mac Mini only costs an extra two hundred. . ." If Microsoft tightens down on Office too much, people just go to OO.o. And if Microsoft tightens down on VisualStudio much at all, the start hemmorhaging future developers - their lifeblood, since application support is (I think) the core of Windows's market dominance - over to Linux and OS X, where the dev tools come for free with the OS.

I honestly don't think Microsoft is free to get too strict with its licensing policies. Piracy is the only thing that is keeping skads of mildly dissatisfied people in their camp where they might not be contributing to M$'s coffers directly, but they aren't working against Microsoft's stranglehold on the market, either.

Customer

I am just going though some training and one of the hot points is understanding your customer. Making something more difficult for customers (home users and companies that do tech work) is not one of the moves known to improve market share and is in most industries considered a bad move.

Hope they're up late

Because the last few times I've reinstalled Windows, it's been around 12am.

Re:Hope they're up late

American readers? Didn't you hear? Slashdot outsourced its readers to India. Half of us are IN New Delhi!

Microsoft NEEDS Piracy

Microsoft depends on the ubiquity of Windows (and Office, Outlook, et al). When everybody is using Microsoft products, everybody needs Microsoft. Their proprietary formats are a de facto standard (except Massachusetts), so if you want to do business with people who use Windows (et al), you have little choice but to also use windows.

As their piracy initiative starts to pick up steam, this will only enhance the "value" of free (or at least lesser cost) alternatives. I predict a large swell of Linux usage-- on the desktop, in these emerging markets, or other areas where the hight cost of Windows (et al) simply locks people out. With that will come a groudswell of support for open formats.

Consider what you need if you are going to do business with the government of Hamburg. You will need to provide and exchange documents and other material in a format they can read (it won't simply be Word and PowerPoint). Now the same thing will happen in these emerging markets, creating more of an interest in these alternative formats, and thus alternative applications (e.g. OpenOffice).

More choices are good for everybody. Use the application of your choice, on the platform of your choice, and produce documents and other material in a format anyone else can read. Right now, I have any number of such choices to produce graphics for a web page (jpg, png, even gif). The formats for Flash and Acrobat have been opened up, and happily they are becoming more standard. But the U.S. Government still requires all RFP submissions in Word.

More choices, however, is bad for Microsoft. They don't want open formats and lots of choices, they want (and need) everone using and exchanging MS Word documents. They want (and need) everybody using Outlook and Internet Explorer, and of course, they want (and ultimately need) everybody using Windows.

Thanks A Lot

Thanks guys, thanks a lot

As if installing windows isn't enough of a headache. I had to reinstall windows in Japan, and let me tell ya, my Japanese isn't what it should be.

On a side note, I envy the Mac people here in that they can seamlessly switch between English and Japanese versions of their OS just by setting a preference.

In windows land, it's purchase both or suffer. Now more activation heedaches.

Thanks guys, thanks a lot.

Aw man..

Calling in every time I changed a bit of hardware is the only chance I get to talk to a woman...

oh.. ONLINE activation only... *WHEW*

Not Quite as Bad As It Sounds...

From TFA...

If a customer attempts to activate Windows XP with an OEM key from a COA, they will be directed to call customer support specialists to obtain an override code - provided they can prove that their copy is legitimate by answering a series of questions.

Jupiter Research senior analyst Joe Wilcox said the change shouldn't affect many PC buyers. "Seeing as how the typical OEM would normally preactivate Windows XP, most legitimate users shouldn't have much need to go through the activation process," noted Wilcox.

Picking on the wrong guy

Seems to me MS could have solved this problem by requiring the large OEM's to stop allowing their keys to be "unused" like this. And you know what, there was a time that MS could have done this, despite the added effort/headache it would have undoutbedly been for the OEM's.

Sign O' The Times?

Copy Protection SOP

Step 1: Company implements some sort of copy protection.
Step 2: Legitimate users are hampered by the copy protection while illegitimate users breeze by it through various means.
Step 3: Company either ultimately removes copy protection with a black mark on its reputation or people just stop buying its products.

I know of no historical case that deviates from this for a major software release. Of course, you have various vertical applications that use dongles and other such things, but anything that is mass-distributed (like Lotus Notes or Turbo Tax) that has used copy protection either removed said copy protection or stopped selling their product.

This is especially bad...

...on the heels of Microsoft admitting increased concern about rootkit spyware that requires reinstallation to remove.

It seems more and more people are being driven to use cracked versions of software simply because of the DRM inconvenience.

So what?

This doesn't stop piracy in anyway. Product activation only disadvantages the honest customers and thats it. The ones who use pirated windows will still use pirated windows regardless.

I've serviced many PCs, and let me tell you, servicing the boxes that come with a bona fide windows installation are a much larger pain in the ass then the ones with pirated copies.

With the pirated ones i just reinstall windows and thats it. Reinstalling on an original box requires me to spend 15 minutes after the fact talking to a a machine in Singapore because the local Toll Free number for Microsoft was disconnected ages ago.

sheesh...

Really?

You mean all those PCs sitting in college computer labs I administer with their COA labels on them can be lifted and used to activate a copy of XP (since they install using a corp version)????

I had NO IDEA, but I guess Microsoft is giving a head's up to all of our students to hurry up and lift our keys and do their installs before the end of the month.

Nice way to alert people how to pirate your stuff, Microsoft, while further irritating legitimate purchasers.

Speaking for myself, not my employer

Yeah!

A small step for Windows anti-piracy,
One giant leap for the advocation of OSS.

I guess there's no question now as to what I'm going
to install on that new HD of mine. (As if there was doubt before this, I guess.)

What?

I'm really surprised that they are wasting the resources to do this. Most pirated windows xp copies have no activiation anyway. they have no key, and don't ask for one. I would say if they want to get to the source of the problem, they should re-evalutate their MSDN subscription copies and have them need to phone in a re-install. In the end though, I think everyone knows what this really is, a big waste of time. *handclap for microsoft*

call center

Due to a bad Adaptec PCI card (SATA interface to my hard drives) which was corrupting the hard drives, I've had to reinstall XP Pro on my primary worksation a lot lately. I took 3 re-installs to track down the problem. Each time, when I tried online activation, it would say the number of installs for the license key had been exceeded and I needed to call. So I call in, give them a very long string of numbers, they ask "why you are installing, how many computers has it been installed on, etc." Needless to say, this is pi**ing me off! I'll do everything possible to avoid Microsoft in the future! I've already purchased an Apple Powerbook.

Re:call center

If you were just reinstalling to trace this problem, you could have held off on activation until you had solved it. You don't need to activate Windows immediately after you install it, you're given 30 days until you have to. (Not that I think activation's a good thing, or that you shouldn't be able to reinstall your OS as many times as you want to.)

The end of the home user

It is things like this and the delayed operating system that makes one wonder if microsoft wants to get out of the Home User Operating system and just concentrate on their business customers.

Just think all they would really need to do is roll out a good, non-bloated version of Office for Macs and Linux that is compatible with their office version of Office and they can stop having to worry about whiny home user.

RTFA!

They won't disable key activation, just for keys that are assigned to the top 20 OEM clients of Microsoft.

They are however planning to get rid of online activation alltogether.

Hmm, I hope India has enough people to man those call centers.

Wake up

Come on - wake up to the reality.

Some readers here live in a dream world; it goes a bit like this. Microsoft make crappy products; Microsoft (unsurprisingly) protect their crappy products; people ultimately realise this; switch to Linux.

Here's the reality. Microsoft make pretty average products that a heck of a lot of people use. Microsoft get most of their revenues from office and windows and want to protect this cash cow. Microsoft have product activation on, something that bothers a relatively minute fraction of it's user base, and tackle piracy head on. People still view Linux as a server OS, hard to use, and not friendly to people who have less than 5 minutes to read a help file. People stay on Windows. Slash dot community still angry.

This change just doesn't affect them - and importantly - until it does, please don't expect any mass migration to other operating systems. Microsoft rightly identified an exploit that pirates are using to rip them off- why shouldn't they patch it up? It really bothers me that so many people play this out as a big bad beast cracking knuckles again - it just isn't. Since when did support piracy become so acceptable to so many people?

Oh good lord

For all the people complaining about this activation.

How many times do you reinstall Windows?!

I can see maybe if you're in a strange company setting where they use a version that requires it, it may be a hassle, but I don't see most people reinstalling Windows more than once or twice a year. I guess more if you completely hose a system. That's what? 3-5 minutes? When I had to call them the one time my system had determined I changed hardware too much, it took about 1 minute for them to give me the hash I needed. I don't consider that bad at all.

Re:Oh good lord

When I had to call them the one time my system had determined I changed hardware too much, it took about 1 minute for them to give me the hash I needed. I don't consider that bad at all.

I don't care if it takes .0001 picoseconds and happens automagically in response to my brainwaves.

It's not an issue of convenience. It's an issue of principle.

I swap hardware in and out of my PC all the time. More importantly, I reserve the right to swap hardware in and out of my PC whenever I damn well please.

Windows Product Activation limits this right by labeling me an Evil Pirate if I modify my system too much, or in the "wrong" way, and forcing me to grovel to Microsoft for permission to use my own computer again.

This is unacceptable no matter how "convenient" they make the groveling process. I simply do not accept the premise that they have the right to lock me out of my PC based on how I modify the hardware. I don't want my computer playing cop.

It's for this reason that I've kept my Windows box at home on Windows 2000, which has no such onerous "gotchas". When Windows 2000 becomes an untenable platform (which by all appearances will be Real Soon Now), it would be nice if there was a version of Windows that was compatible with my principles. If not, I'll wipe the disk and run Fedora full time, or buy a Mac.

If it comes to that, it'll be a shame; there are a lot of nice things about the Windows environment for the home user, and I'll miss being able to play the latest games. But there are some things that are simply not negotiable, and "I own my system" is one of them.

Microsoft Self Destructs, Film @ 11

Good move, guys. Keep up the good work. Every time you squeeze people for more revenue more of them jump ship to Linux. The more leaving Windows, the more of a market for Linux software. Rinse, lather, repeat.

Moves like this only accelerate the vicious circle. Marvelous! Thank you, Redmond! Wow, when was the last time I said that?

And we have years and years of entertainment watching MSFT's fall from the peak market dominance. Like watching that one video of an extreme skier who lost it and rolled down the mountain...seemingly forever...unable to stop the fall and it was just one agonizing tumble after another. The only difference is you felt sorry for the skier, sort of. No pity for MSFT. Wo-ho!

Re:The Questions

1. What did you do to your computer to make Microsoft's World Class OS stop working?

I bought a Mac.

2. Where did you steal your computer from?

You.

3. How do you pronounce Linux?

"I pronounce Linux as Linux."

4. What's the Capitol of Finland?

Rejavick. Wait! That's Iceland! Umm...

5. Do you own an iPod?

*takes off white headphones* What did you say?

6. How much wood would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

WTF? First penguins now woodchucks? What? Do you have some sort of animal fetish?!

7. If a train left Redmond traveling at 60MPH, and another left Cupertino traveling at 40MPH, when would they arrive in Kansas?

Nowhere - they would not be able to pay the Microsoft Transport Fee(tm) to leave their respective stations.

8. Who's your Daddy?

Harvey Birdman but don't tell anybody!

9. How much Vaseline is currently on your keyboard?

Only what I used to protect myself from this activation plan...

10. When did you stop beating your wife?

About the same time I stopped using Windows...

Cool!

Hopefully, this will mean a lot more people buying one of these [apple.com] and using something like this [apple.com], this [netbsd.org], this [openbsd.org], this [freebsd.org] or this [debian.org]!

Seriously. Why on Earth are people still putting up with these MS fuckers when Mac OSX and Apple hardware is so damn nice? I like a mix of Sun and Apple gear. The thought of actually deciding on MS just makes me shudder. And MS just keeps giving me more and more reason to hate them and the shit they peddle.

On phone activation...

My father recent ran into a rather stupid issue with the phone based activation. You see it's not a person you're talking to, but one of those recorded voice recognition systems. He had a copy of Microsoft Works that he had to reinstall, and suddenly required activation. For some reason the internet based activation didn't work so he proceeded to do the phone based one.

Well lo and behold after he enters in his proper key for the product he legitimately purchased when he got his Dell PC, it promptly tells him the key's invalid, buhbye and HANGS UP ON HIM. There was no option to speak to a CSR at all, and he has no recourse (Dell can't do anything about it, and there's no phone numbers to call at Microsoft to talk to someone). The whole experience has pushed him that much further towards getting a Mac and waving a not-so-fond farewell to Windows XP.

Will OEMs supply full versions of XP?

Now that Microsoft have made it very clear to the masses that they can't re-use OEM versions of XP, I wonder if many people will start demanding OEMs to supply full versions?

At that point in time, people will realise how much Microsoft is charging for a full version of their crappy OS and probably go to Linux or Apple instead.

I can't wait.

Here's another loophole...

...that I discovered accidentally. You can install and activate OEM versions of Windows using the the same activation code multiple times so long as the hardware is identical. I accidentally installed the same OEM pack on two machines. Both activated with zero problems within a week of each other. Of course this wouldn't have created too big of an issue since each machine did have it's own key stuck to the side of the machine.

The life of a MS Activation Specialist.

I used to be a MS Windows Activation Specialist (a.k.a. the person you hate to call all the time if you format often) for a year in a call center in my hometown of Saint John, Canada. People who wanted to re-activate their Windows would have to answer my questions first. So I have first-hand experience of how much people hate having to call. To be fair, we did get calls from people who, after we checked their Product ID, knew they were using a burnt copy. From this, you would surmise that this system is helping to fight against piracy, right? WRONG! As long as you answered the questions correctly (which mostly consists of why they need to reactivate), their's no problem. Thus you could call in, give a cheap excuse (The most used one being the "had to format", and even if this key's been used a hundred times, we had to activate again.) The one thing I hated to have to tell people, and it happened often, was that they could only install a retail copy of windows onto one computer and one laptop (This policy might have changed, not too sure). I found this to be a silly rule, which often infuriated the user on the other end of the line. And if you have an OEM version on one computer but own two, sorry, your out of luck, you need to buy a retail ver. of windows for that second computer. From my experience, it is my belief that the combination of both the Windows OS EULA and the activation process most likely caused more people to get pirated versions (I've had many people tell me they were going to this over the phone.)

Use Windows 2000

Really... Is there any reason to use XP over win2K? Besides the Fisher-Price interface?

WPA triggers on more than just new installs!

I've had WPA trigger on my installed-and-activated copy each time I moved the system partition to a different drive, especially if it was bigger.
Yes, I know, I ought to totally reinstall, but when I have a drive start to give me read errors, I don't feel like risking death of data by hunting down what directories it may be in.
And when I buy a bigger drive and want to use it as my Windows system drive, and install SuSE or something on the old drive, I should be able to do that, without telling Microsoft what I'm doing.