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Spyware Removal is Big Business 454
prostoalex writes "Just when you thought all the software niches were taken, IDC comes out with the report saying $12 million was spent on spyware removal tools in 2003, and $305 million will be spent in 2008. IDC also estimates two-thirds of PC users out there are infected. Large PC vendors are waking up to the spyware threat, having their call centers overwhelmed with spyware-related calls."
Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! (Score:5, Funny)
Free beer - AGAIN! (Score:2, Funny)
More free beer! Wow! I think I've detected the secret underlying thread in /. !!
Seriously though, my uncle's family from Greenville, SC (read Bob Jones University - no, don't mean to offend anyone's religious beliefs here but I have a beer point to make ;-) have asked me for computer help on occassions but for obvious reasons, that never got ME any free beer.
I'm going off to cry in my beer now...
Mmmm, salty!
Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! (Score:5, Funny)
(or your mother! HEEHEE!)
Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! (Score:2, Funny)
"Someone was using this computer for no good, I highly recomend not using any browser but Firefox for no good."
Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! (Score:2)
Re:Of course it is! Spyware only did good for me! (Score:3, Funny)
i'll second that! (Score:3, Informative)
It's nice to pay bills but it gets kinda depressing making money off of other peoples misery.
eric
Spyware / spam prevention (Score:2, Informative)
FireFox http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ [mozilla.org] is a web browser that is much more secure then Internet Explorer. I have been using it for many
months now, it is very stable and has a small fraction of the security problems found in IE.
Ad-Aware http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/ [lavasoftusa.com] is a spyware finding and removal tool. This is one of the best anti-spy ware progr
Re: There are repercussions though... (Score:2)
Wonder how long... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wonder how long... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Wonder how long... (Score:2, Insightful)
There's so many spectrums of spyware these days. How many Windows apps, free or not, phone home after installation or at every run? Uhm, yeah, they're only "checking for updates". Even some Windows device drivers (like some printer drivers) phone home. You don't know what any of these programs are sending, or how often they send it.
Re:Wonder how long... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Wonder how long... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Already happening (Score:3, Insightful)
No, go back and read that again. I think he means the removal tool authors will start including spyware they "approve" of along with their removal tools, so that they can guarentee said piece of spyware WON'T be removed. Spyware companies would pay huge amounts for something like that, let's hope those making spyware tools won't sell out. (I'm fairly confident they won't,, that's like Symantec bundeling virii with their anti-virus tools...
Woo (Score:2, Funny)
And it's too bad... (Score:5, Interesting)
And once an ordinary user is compromised by one piece of spyware, it's usually a downhill battle.
Imagine how different the situation would be if, for the last several years, there had been real competition on the browser scene. Of course, there may never have been a way to solve the problem with the courts anyway: they DID decide that Microsoft illegally used its monopoly position to bundle IE, but Microsoft knew exactly what it was doing. By the time the slow wheels of justice had turned, Microsoft's browser takeover was virtually complete.
And during this entire time, IE fundamentally was stagnant. There were glaring, egregious security issues, and no new features that had already become pervasive and popular with alternative browsers (popup blocking, tabs, etc., not to mention a lack of horrible inattention to security). I imagine Firefox's recent uptick in usage illustrates, even after all that, just how bad IE sucks. But this will only be good for Microsoft, and for everyone: if Microsoft feels it has competition from things like Mac OS X in OSes and Firefox in browsers, we get developments like SP2. We get a new "commitment" to security. We'll ostensibly get new features in and an attention to security in IE. (Well, we can dream, right?)
I wonder how many dollars have been spent, or how many families have actually bought new computers (yes, it happens), once their PC slows down and/or crashes, hangs, or has other problems, to the point that it's virtually unusable. Yes. People really do this. They don't feel they can or know how to just wipe the machine and reinstall Windows, and even if they did, they don't know how to save everything they want to. So they just buy a new computer.
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah you can look at the rate of change in browser usage. The fastest growing market in terms of percentage growth is the Mozilla family - I dont know of any spyware getting through Mozilla yet.
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:2)
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:2)
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:2)
Yesterday, for the first time, I was warned by Firefox that the site (don't ask
1) tried to install software and
2) Wanted to run a signed applet (with a seemingly fake cert from "Thawte consulting").
To protect th
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:3, Informative)
In the end, though, the only way to combat user stupidity is through education (an uphill struggle) or b
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:2)
Actually, believe or don't, the vast majority of spyware I've had to remove over the years, has been knowingly installed by the user. It has only been the users lack of knowledge of what the actually software does that has allowed it to be installed (incredibly, even after knowing, some people wanted the software placed back on their machines.
Admittedly
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:2, Insightful)
Not true. Our non-trivial (several thousand PCs) analysis of spyware at my company shows that the majority of the spyware initially infected machines by piggybacking on other programs that the users installed, such as iMesh, Gozilla, eWallet, etc. They didn't need a vulnerability, just a not-very-observant user.
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:2)
old story (Score:2)
So that leaves people with the option to purchase Windows at retail for roughly the price of a cheap PC, or they can spend 50% more and get a newer, shinier one. I know plent
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:3, Insightful)
That does not make them morons in the same way your comment makes you a cockbite.
You want to start showing me stat as to where the "average" is.
Me I reckon that the average person knows what the hell is going on, and can fix a fair few problems, but maybe isn`t the hard core programmer/linux guru.
Rather than taking the "intellectual" low ground maybe you want to to help inform, or maybe realise that computers (despite marketting) are not ready for everyone.
Your view is g
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:3, Interesting)
One paragraph should make one point. Now if I am of such a below average intelligence that I can make my points with such a clarity that requires only one sentence, then so be it.
The poster hit a "raw nerve" with his holier-than-thou attitude and aparent superiority complex. Now if someone wants to spend $1000 (
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:5, Insightful)
With repect - and a great deal of sympathy (if not outright agreement, at least when I am trying fix something on a friend/relative's computer) I think that we should get away from this kind of mindset with respect to the "average" computer user. The average computer user is not interested in how things work, only that things should work and that they can use what ever piece of technology for the purpose they need it for. This extends beyond IT, to everything from plumbing, electricity, cars, furnaces, etc. Anything beyond basic operating and maintenance procedures gets in the way of use and should ordinarily be outside the domain of the "average" user. The problem lies with technologies and products (e.g. IE) that are poorly designed and therefore require more expertise from the average user than is appropriate.
Sure it's easy to get frustrated with "average" users, but they should not have to be interested in how things work. Don't be so gloomy, there are worse things than being in a position to help a fellow human being with a problem.
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:2)
If you stuck Albert Einstein (presuming he was still alive) in front of a modern computer, the chances are he wouldn't have a clue, is Einstein a moron also?
Re:And it's too bad... (Score:4, Interesting)
Your view is gloomy because you're not charging enough.
$15/hour? Well, maybe in the call center. (Score:5, Interesting)
I travel with a frequently-updated set of tools for exorcising various demons from PC's, and am accustomed to mucking about in the registry, winsock stacks and other oh-so-fun places to finish up the job.
Open source spyware removal utilities? (Score:4, Interesting)
- most developers aren't clicking on email attachments
- it's tedious work; rooting around in Windows Registry and system folders isn't fun
- it'd need to be constantly updated to be effective
It's a tough row to hoe...
Re:Open source spyware removal utilities? (Score:2)
A fourth reason - free-as-in-beer, closed-source spyware removal utilities are already ripped off by unethical software companies (see here [spywareinfo.com] for an example), and this would discourage people from making open-source utilities that would be even easier to rip off.
meh (Score:2, Insightful)
comparison (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:comparison (Score:5, Insightful)
Why does every /. analogy involve a car?
One of the fallacies in this analogy is that car hijacking billboards will probably kill you, where as spyware probably won't.
Re:comparison (Score:2)
Lugnut.
Re:comparison (Score:2)
Re:comparison (Score:2)
I can understand that, but I'm sure plenty of other widely understood things could also be substituted. Besides, it was simply an observation, I didn't expect to start a debate on it.
Re:comparison (Score:2)
Re:comparison (Score:3, Funny)
Re:comparison (Score:3, Insightful)
But, after your bank accounts have been drained and your credit cards taken to their limits, you might wish you were dead.
I had my identity stolen a couple of years ago. Buggers were allowed to open up accounts are large department stores without even a cursory check on their ID or validation of the info they put on the applications.
Fortunately, one of the stores called to "verify" that I had opened an account and, as such, I was altered to the problem.
My information qui
Re:comparison (Score:3, Insightful)
Why do you pay for a cayalytic converter in your car? It works fine without it, or you can install one yourself cheaper.
Most people are never given the choice of making a purchase and deciding what bits they want or don't want. Given the choice most people wouldn't have the skills to take advantage of the savings.
Think convenience, think McDonalds.
Not that I trust anti-virus companies... (Score:2)
THe ULTIMATE irony is if M$ sold thier own spyware-removal tool...
Also, there are so many fraud looking sites selling a million an one spyware removal tools...
Sorry, but educating users on easy removal of software, and mandating all software should be easily removable (an OS binary tracker which tracks file creation etc would be nice!).
Also, any software that breaks these 'principles' can be defined as malware, and is criminal. obviously th
Yeah we already knew this? (Score:2)
For years now we've all know it was big business. Ad-Aware and SpyBot S&D just to name a couple. I've been running these ever since I had highspeed internet.
Ans this is front page news?
The REALLY nasty malware... (Score:5, Interesting)
I cleaned out one PC last month - it wasn't infected too bad, only several dozen things for the scanners to complain about, and I've dealt with systems that had several hundred! - but even after everything seemed to be gone, its default search URL and things like that kept getting hijacked. I had to grab a tool to fix the Winsock chain; some malware had slipped itself in there and was screwing things up.
Re:The REALLY nasty malware... (Score:3, Interesting)
Just finished a 3-day trip to disinfect a remote office. My findings were a combination of Ad-Aware, Spybot, and Hijack This would find most spyware, but to actually remove it required multiple reboots into safe mode and manual deletion of registry keys, EX
Re:The REALLY nasty malware... (Score:2)
But the biggest factor is that I am not afraid so screw around with anything, as our employees have been told "if it isn't stored on the server, it isn't being backed up and it is YOUR responsibility". If worse comes to worst I know I can always scrub off the ma
This is why Apple is un-American (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This is why Apple is un-American (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thank you Microsoft (Score:2)
I know it was supposed to be funny, and I'm really trying to laugh. But it's coming at as more a nervous chuckle.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Daily Spyware (Score:2, Interesting)
It's almost a daily event at our office, wake up, get to work, drink coffee, remove daily spyware....
This is one group of our population I would gladly invent a story about a giant goat about to eat earth just to get them the hell off.
Re:Daily Spyware (Score:2)
Prosecution (Score:5, Interesting)
My argument woud be that these authors are invading my privacy when I legitimately get onto the web.
On the other hand, I will shoot myself in the foot by seeing their potential argument too:
They could argue that by visiting specific sites and probably clicking some links, I agree to enjoying all services they offer on these sites including stuff that would be installed on my PC.
Any legal minds here?
Spyware removal is big business? (Score:3, Funny)
And, this is news? It's sort of like announcing "Hey, the Moon causes the Ocean Tides to Rise and Fall"
Spyware removal is huge business for me! (Score:4, Informative)
Now, as an industry, I don't understand why so much money was spent. There are outstanding tools and tutorials on removing every type of spyware, and every it seems like all the best ones are free.
If you want any pointers or tips on spyware removal, and you don't live in my area
Re:Spyware removal is huge business for me! (Score:2)
Re:Spyware removal is huge business for me! (Score:3, Informative)
Not really true. Some CWS variants are really really hard to remove (in extreme cases, using the oxymoronically-named HackerDefender rootkit to disguise itself, plus hide and shut down CWShredder [intermute.com], AdAware [lavasoft.de], Spybot S&D [safer-networking.org] et al when you try to install them), but everything is possible.
Basically, if CWShredder, Spybot and AdAware don't work for you, and you can't see anything on your HijackThis! [spywareinfo.com] log, first step is to search on the now slightly outdated CWS Chronicles [spywareinfo.com] and then on many of the excellent [spywarewarrior.com] anti-sp [spywareinfo.com]
Overzealous perhaps? (Score:2)
The War on spyware (Score:2)
My attitude is to make the users suffer and then blame there browsing habits when they piss an
No Wonder (Score:2)
windows is partially at fault (Score:5, Insightful)
Basicly, anything that wants to change certain things should trigger a "are you sure you want to do this" warning of some kind (with ways to change that warning into a requirement for a password or a total block of the activity). If the activity is blocked, the app requesting it gets an appropriate error (e.g. "you cant open that file" if access to a file is blocked)
The items that should be locked include:
Writing to the "startup" group & other locations where you can have a program start at startup
Writing to
Changing critical windows sockets settings
Changing the HOSTS file
And there may be other things
The idea is that spyware/viruses/trojans/etc that come in totally unannounced would now not be able to do that.
And spyware and such that rides alongside application programs would be easier to spot (so you can choose to use a non-spyware alternative)
Yes the cluless will just click "yes" but at least those who care wont be hit as much.
Anti-virus vendors should start detecting spyware (particularly the kind that installs itself jsut by visiting a webpage or reading an email as opposed to the kind that installs alongside programs like kazza) just like they detect viruses.
After all, spyware shares a fair few characteristics with viruses, worms and trojans.
The big PC OEMs should be doing more to combat spyware.
Myself, I use Mozilla (and keep it up to date with the latest release builds) and I use Norton
Antivirus to keep my system virus free.
I also run Spybot and Ad-Aware regularly.
And I dont install spyware-laden programs like Kazza, Real etc.
Re:windows is partially at fault (Score:2)
All the solitions (spybot, ad-aware, firewalls etc) will stop spyware after its already been installed).
My idea would be more like how anti-virus programs can automatically identify viruses when you try to run them.
Except that it wouldnt try to detect specific programs, just to detect "potentially bad" things (like adding to the startup group or messing with the HOSTS file). Viruses, Spyware, Trojan Horses, Worms and other malware need to do at lea
Why not illegal? (Score:3, Insightful)
I find it terribly sad when companies/people/drones/the family pet/etc. need to fork out a ton of cash just to prevent assholes from taking over their computers. Viruses (Viri?) have caused this for years, and it's completely illegal to create such a program. But, so far, it's still legal in most places (albeit unethical) to distribute this garbage.
Yes, it's really an IE/Windows problem, which is a whole other argument. I know users need to be better educated (or educate themselves), but that still doesn't help my Grandma who can barely seem to find the escape key. I understand this. But still, why should this still be allowed?
On a side note, does anyone know of GOOD network/client-server spyware removal software, either free (as in beer or freedom) or commercial? Just curious...
Two thirds??? (Score:2, Informative)
Pretty Big Business (Score:2, Informative)
Anti-virus adding anti-spyware? (Score:3, Insightful)
In theory, they already have. We have Symantec A/V 9 installed on our the computers at work. There is actually an option to tell it to scan for spyware/malware. The problem is, it seems to be be able to find a lot of it, but then is unable to actually remove it most of the time.
So, we end up having to run ad-aware to actually remove the spyware/malware. It's silly that we need Spybot for immunization (to make it difficult for the spyware to install in the first place), plus ad-aware for spyware removal (it seems to do a better job of removing than Spybot does, but doesn't provide the immunization feature), plus Symantec A/V 9.
Symantec, are you listening? Would be nice to have a comprehensive solution that works *all the time*. We're already paying big bucks for your anti-virus software, you could at least get it to work well for all threats. . .
Re:Anti-virus adding anti-spyware? (Score:2)
Since I'm not a computer tech/programmer (Score:4, Funny)
Big Business or Big Waste? (Score:2)
pest patrol owners will have noticed that (Score:2)
Good source of extra income (Score:2, Funny)
IPO will be next fall.
mmm .... (Score:5, Insightful)
Have to pay for anti-virus, have to pay for firewall, have to pay for spyware removal, have to pay for a copy of windows and then you have to pay someone to set it up.
*BSD/Linuxes:
Have to pay for someone to set it up.
Hmm... and the TOC of Linux is higher because...?
Tom
Making a killing (Score:2, Interesting)
Let me see if I have this straight (Score:2)
Pay for anti-virus software to keep it from being porked by every 15 year old script kiddie on the planet.
Pay for spyware removal tools on top of that to keep it running at some functional level.
And after a couple years of paying for all that you get the privilege of paying for yet another buggy piece of crapware OS and start the cycle all over again.
Is that pretty much the gist of it? Wow, getting such a great deal it's ha
Somebody Please (Score:3, Insightful)
Upgrade to XP SP2. (Score:5, Funny)
Easy solution (Score:2)
http://www.boomspeed.com/akito/Windowmaintence.tx
Pass it around, send comments. Whatever, it's very basic so idiots should get it.
Too much spyware and NO Login Connection on AOL (Score:3, Informative)
Finally, I ran a copy of AD-AWARE and SPYBOT-S&D from a CD I had with me. After removing nearly 200 data miners and some files, the system connected on the first try. I have not yet notified AOL of the problem, but I expect others have had the same problem.
VMware is one solution (Score:3, Interesting)
The Mac marginalized again (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe I'll give up and join the Borg.
broken window fallacy (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:broken window fallacy (Score:3, Insightful)
Close, but not quite. The current philosophy is to bomb other countries. This serves two purposes. First, it props up big defense contractors. Secondly, it props up large, corrupt companies who are paid obscene sums of money to rebuild other countries after we get done sending them back to the stone age (only so we can blow them up again, of course - starting the cycle over again).
McAfee and Norton (Score:3, Insightful)
Wouldn't this have saved a lot of problems? How is spyware not considered malicious?
Over and over again, I have to sit at friends' computers and rescue them from the evil clutches of the browser hijackers and such. I think Symantec and McAfee dropped the ball on this one.
Re:How much to charge (Score:2, Informative)
I charge $50 per clean. About 30% of the time, I get a tip too, ranging from $5 to $20. I always call em back a week later to be sure they're happy.
Reinstallation may sometimes be necessary (not often). Sometimes, it's far less time consuming.
I never do a "freebie" anymore. There's just too many of them. I'd drive myself mad.
Re:How much to charge (Score:2)
The people in their 40s are the ones that tip.
I understand, of course, that college kids are broke.
However, keep in mind, the market is much, much larger. Suggest a price of $50, and if they balk, offer a barter deal or other arrangement. Just be sure that the "MSRP" is $50 so you don't get people saying "
Re:How much to charge (Score:3, Informative)
Re:aint what it used to be (Score:3, Funny)
Good point! It reminds me of Doctor Evil -- "One MILLLLLIIIIOOOOOONNNNNN Dollars!"
Re:Unwilling mercenary... (Score:3, Interesting)
I deal with computers at businesses, 10-200 employees in general. Computers that should not be misused, on the desks of people who should know better.
Simply put, if somebody's home PC gets screwed up, it's not worth my time to fix it, since 1) they can't afford it as you've pointed out, and 2) it'll be hosed again next week.
I've gotten to the point where I'm starting to point out to my clients that hey, if they run something other than Windows, this
Re:Hype = $$$ (Score:4, Interesting)
Where I work (state government) I see all kinds of cruft on users machines when I am out and about. Even though it's not a direct part of my job I am in IT and to help things along I go through users machines and remove the nasties. Sadly, I walk by a week or so later and the users machine has the junk on it again.
I recently got permission to do a test with Firefox. I've been using it without issues and my bosses boss just put it on his work system and has the same results. I asked him if I could put Firefox on a users machine, someone who I knew had all kinds of problems with popups/redirects/whatever.
I cleaned her system (I don't even remember how many pieces of spyware she had) and then put Firefox on the machine. I did some basic configuration (block popups, small cache size, etc), copied her bookmarks over and gave her a quick run through on using tabs and how to configure the toolbar. So far I have not heard one bad thing from her about using Firefox or that she had issues with popups/spyware.
Hopefully, by using this person as a real guinea pig (as opposed to myself), someone who is not overly computer literate, we can convince the higher ups to use Firefox for everything except for our SAP requirements (yes, SAP is evil. I'm not the one who chose to spend millions of dollars on a tricked-out spreadsheet).
Re:Macs mysteriously unaffected? (Score:2)