Open Source in California Government 434
catfoo writes "California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has recently posted the California Performance Review Report, a 2,500 page plan to overhaul state government and save $32 billion over the next five years. Part of the proposal: Open Source alternatives. Imagine that..."
The Governator! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The Governator! (Score:2)
I think he's more concerned with attempting to keep Hollywood spending money right here in our fine country rather than outsourcing locations.
Re:The Governator! (Score:5, Insightful)
I think open formats are even more important (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm certainly an OSS advocate, that's all I run, and all I have run for the last two years.
I do agree with using the best tool for the job in Government, be it open or closed source.
However, I really think a prerequisite, in the case of close source being the best tool, is an open data format. It shouldn't be acceptable to have government, and therefore the public's data locked away inside a file that only one application can process.
Yes, I know that OO.org can handle Word documents, for example. However, it shouldn't be necessary to reverse engineer the file format each time MS release a new version. That isn't an open data format, and so I don't think government should use MS word.
Re:The Governator! (Score:2)
The governor of California is in favor of industries in California. Microsoft is based in Washington.
Movies and Canada (Score:2)
Re:The Governator! (Score:2, Offtopic)
He made a lot of money off our beautiful scenery.
Interesting... (Score:2)
This is why they voted for him (Score:5, Insightful)
They didn't vote for him because of his party affiliation either.
He was perceived as being a real human, rather than another product of the political machine. Sheeple, for all their stupidity, are still able to recognize that successful politicians achieve their success by favor-swapping and compromise. This means that by the time any given politician arises to a position of real power, he or she is alreay so loyalty-laden that acting independently is outright impossible.
Arnold has no such loyalties tying him down...so he can actually make decisions that benefit the majority and make sense. The fact that his own agenda is actually beneficial to the people at large is, IMO a Very Good Thing.
$0.02
They could start with the web server... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:They could start with the web server... (Score:2)
Re:Netcraft Confirms It (Score:4, Insightful)
"Here are things we should change in the future"
Not- "gee, look at the cool stuff we are doing now."
It makes perfect sense that they are NOT running open source now, but are supporting a move toward open source in the FUTURE.
Obvious Reason (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Obvious Reason (Score:2, Funny)
Heh Hans, vatch me as I flex my tight buttocks against my spandex pants and throw da little wimpy girly boys out da vindow.
Re:Obvious Reason (Score:2)
Also, do not forget that he is not an American and the "sportiness" of the geeks is quite different across the Atlantic. The ones from this side tend to be considerably more dangerous (even without guns).
Nice recommendation (Score:4, Insightful)
They're pulling a Munich (Score:2)
Basically, it boils down to "where applicable, use it as a bargaining chip for proprietary software instead," huh guys? Good thinking.
This evens the board! (Score:4, Funny)
Now if he gets a cameo (along with Jessie Ventura) in AvP... that'll put'm both in highest regards in my book
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
Use what California created... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Use what California created... (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, wait, that would kind of explain Davis' goverenment, wouldn't it...
skynet (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Use what California created... (Score:2)
I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:2)
Although, if I understand this right, this is still at a recommendation level, and would have to be made official policy first to become standard practise?
We'll see what happens after the lobbyists have done their job.
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:5, Insightful)
How can you call the California government a conservative government? Just because Arnold is a republican? He's probably more liberal than some of the southern democrats.
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:4, Insightful)
s/some/most/
California is its own special blend of politics; it is a huge state both in terms of population and footprint and its people run the gammut. Schwarzenegger is quite "liberal" in social issues--he's anti-gun, pro-abortion rights, pro-gay rights. He's conservative in fiscal issues. Look around CA and you'll find lots of strange combinations of political ideology.
Compare this to the south, where people tend towards extreme social conservatism (no gays, no abortion, guns for everyone) combined with a desire for larger government fiscal investment.
Government schleps are the political ideologues, not the people.
None of this is black and white; Schwarzenegger is becoming more partisan because the Republican party is forcing him to, not necessarily because he believes that crap. This F/OSS initiative is a positive step that he's able to break away from the partisan crap and do something useful.
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:2)
Besides have you seen the California budget? YIKES! They could replace all the laptops with etch-a-sketches and barely make a dent in their IT budget.
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:2)
You should know better.
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:5, Insightful)
And I think the mental images of communism come more from, oh, let's say, every example of communism in the 20th century, rather than any mind-control conspiracies...
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:3, Insightful)
I beg to differ. With pure capitalism you would own the products of your labor and be free distribute it to others for what ever form of currency you wish (in the GPL case, it's the products of the next guy's labor, but could easily be some other form of barter under a different license). Some people think of the GPL-flavor of OSS as more a part of a Gift Economy, but I see it as an exchange of current goods (yo
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:2)
I disagree with that notion because you don't have to pay for and/or use open source software if you don't want to. If MS has it's way, everyone will be required to pay MS tax (it's already done in a way via computers coming with OEM licenses) and in return, every household gets to run a copy of windows and office, and they'll also receive a portrait of Bill Gates that they have to hang on their wall. To me, this sounds
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Communism has many meanings. If by communism you mean the soviet political system, Open Source/Free Software don't really have much in common with it. However, it is not hard to see how Marx could 'like' the OSS model. OSS puts the computing 'means of production' in the hands of everyone. To compete in the hardware industry means billions of dollars in investments, so you pretty much have to work for a 'capitalist'. In the software business, using the OSS model, a few hundred workers can compete with the bi
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Republican != neocon. Traditional republicans are ones who try to eliminate as much waste/pork as possible(McCain is a good example of this type). From what I have seen, Arnold is as well.
The government of California simply wants the best tools to do it's job at the lowest cost. Open source works for that some of the time, others maybe a proprietary solution is the best bet. It all depends on the circumstances, there are very few "silver bullets" in life. It seems that the study indicates that open source alternitaves may be able to deliver the best functionality/cost(it's certainly not free when you consider all the transition costs etc, but long term they believe it will pay off). The government should be looking at what is in the best interest to the taxpayer.
The neo-cons are another story however. They are into cutting taxes for people who are a whole lot richer than you and I, and then using your taxes to reward their buddies while you and I, and the americans to follow us will foot the bill. (*cough* Accenture *cough*)
I am hoping for a rift in the Republican party, and who knows, maybe another W. victory might finally cause that rift, but I don't think it's worth the chance.
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:2)
The problem is on both parties. You have the people who stick exactly to the official party line in order to get the nominatino and you have those who are truly concerned with representing the citizen's best interests. McCain is an excellent example of this and he didn't get the nomination in 2000. We need a TRUE mode
Sorry (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem isn't that there aren't enough moderates, the problem for you is that
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:2)
It's not as simple as that by any means. McCain was more identified with the neocons than Bush was in 2000. That's why the Weekly Standard endorsed McCain (and also why McCain was a darling of the neo-lib New Republic).
There's hardly a wasteful neo-con/thrify paleo-con dichotomy. I think it probably depends a lot more on the individual politician, and the circu
silver bullets... (Score:2)
the silver bullets we have are called "common sense"
the ones we can hire-in are called "experts"
the ones we are looking for are called "silver bullets"
Work that out if you can
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:2, Insightful)
Republicans generally believe competition encourages innovation and efficiency. I'm not surprised by this move at all.
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:3, Insightful)
i dont get this mentality. i'm in the conservative/libertarian camp, and i use FOSS wherever i can. i use it at home, got a Samba server at work, etc. i have never thought of Open Source as an idealogical problem, and i certainly don't associate it with communism. quite the oppsite--using the GPL
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:2)
I'd like to second that. The GPL is based on the premise that I own the products of my own labor, and I can stipulate how it can or can not be used.
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:2)
Re:I Wouldn't Have Thought ... (Score:2)
Imagine that... (Score:2, Funny)
Explore OSS Alternatives for Microsoft Discount? (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps they saw what Testra did [slashdot.org] to get their discounts and they think they can save their money by doing something similar.
Re:Explore OSS Alternatives for Microsoft Discount (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Explore OSS Alternatives for Microsoft Discount (Score:4, Informative)
Looking to the open source community for applications that serve the same function as closed source solutions may cause vendors to be more flexible with pricing and licensing structures.
But the rest of the report makes a very strong case for the adoption of Open Source, including a couple of figures naming savings already known to have been made by California state agencies.
No mention of OOo though... (Score:2)
"Hey guys! Let's drop MS Office and move to OpenOffice.org instead!"
However, it almost seemed like they were suggesting Linux on the desktop. In that unlikely case, MS Office wouldn't be an option.
Nice write-up (Score:5, Interesting)
let in the massive microsoft "discounts" (Score:3, Insightful)
Either way, it is a win-win for california...
Re:let in the massive microsoft "discounts" (Score:3, Insightful)
IT-Less version of the story (now correct) (Score:2)
Open source... (Score:2, Funny)
ITS NOT A TUMOR!!
Time for the next Terminator movie... (Score:4, Funny)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines
and now coming soon to a theater near you...
Terminator 4: Rise of the Penguins
Featuring the lovable Tux as the TERMINATORR
"HE IS BACK"
In almost every case I've seen of this so far... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:In almost every case I've seen of this so far.. (Score:2)
From Big-screen hero to fiscal hero (Score:2)
It'll be interesting how that all turns out. I hope the numbers show up as obviously as it should.
IT professionals should be training themselves but if not, training is probably already part of the regular budget anyway, except this time instead of getting paid to eat breakfast and lunch at a Microsoft Sales pitch meeting, they might actually learn something. (The ability to actually learn something new separates the I.T. professionals from the wanna-be button pushers... I know the numb
Re:From Big-screen hero to fiscal hero (Score:2)
Re:From Big-screen hero to fiscal hero (Score:3, Insightful)
When I see a computing system, I see a computing system. I don't see Windows or Not-Windows and stop there. They all basically do the same things and it starts from there. Whatever is there to learn in order to do your job or serve your purpose, you just do it. So when I am operating an AS/400, a Linux box, a QNX system, MacOS or a Win
SkyNet source.... (Score:2, Funny)
So.....I take it that the source code to SkyNet and the T-800 series Terminators will be open sourced? Or will it just be limited to T1000 source code?
the waste in government (and large corporate) env. (Score:5, Insightful)
1. "tenure". once you're on the job a few years, it's very hard to fire people. people realise this and slack off.
2. "gotta spend my budget". if you don't spend this year's budget on something, somewhere, next year's budget will be less than this year's budget, regardless of what next year's budget actually needs to be. people realise this and spend money on non-essential things, to preserve their budget slice for next year.
3. "follow procedure". often large places will have massive procedures for procurement, which end up doing things like making a hammer cost $100 to acquire, desktop computer costs skyrocket, etc.
4. "workplace as a supply depot for employees". people take reams of printer paper home. it happens. ditto blank CD's, pens, you-name-it. computer monitors, desk chairs, all these things go home with people.
5. "croneyism and nepotism". similar to situation #1, you have people who retain their jobs when they are not operating at a good personal efficiency -- or are even downright awful performers.
To fix these things in government, all that is required is (1) absolute transparency of budgets. Every $1 which is collected from taxpayers must be accounted for somewhere. Hundreds of eyes seeing these budgets will find the waste very, very, very quickly. And (2) impartial performance review of employees. Get rid of or "fix" the lazy and inefficient employees -- they are destroying the system in ways that simple material waste cannot even come close to in comparison.
Re:the waste in government (and large corporate) e (Score:3, Insightful)
Honestly, the biggest one to crack is the "got to spend the entire budget" attitude. And there's a simple way of achieving it:
1. Budget allocation meetings are not allowed to take usage of last years budget into consideration. In fact, they won't even be told how much of the previous year's budget has been used.
2. Departments are allowed to keep the procedes of any underspend for 1 year. If they ha
Re:the waste in government (and large corporate) e (Score:2)
Yeah, it's a problem: "Who's going to Watch the Watchers?"
That's why simply publishing the budget and expenditures in a transparent way is a good idea: there are people with time on their hands (see
Re:the waste in government (and large corporate) e (Score:2)
"I can buy 100 servers with Microsft OSes preinstalled, and a year of support"
or you could say
"I can buy 400 servers, have my IT guys throw linux on them, and we buy a year of support for them from Redhat|SuSE|whoever"
Re:the waste in government (and large corporate) e (Score:2)
Let's say you get an allowance of $20 a week from your mom. You buy some clothes, games, etc.
At the end of the year, your mom notes that you have like $200 still sitting around that you apparently didn't need. So she decides to set your next year's allowance lower, to something like $15 a week.
To prevent this, at the end of the year, even if you don't particularly want anything, you buy a few games or something, just to make sure you've spent your money. You've kind of wasted
Re:the waste in government (and large corporate) e (Score:2)
Logically, it is plausible that you would need more next year than you did the previous year.
A fairly simple workaround would be to cut the next year's budget to the actual spending, plus a percentage equal to estimated inflation for the next year.
To avoid end-year spending bubbles, base this on the average amount spent each month times 12 (this doesn't completely eliminate the spending bubble, but would depress it
The real goal? (Score:2, Redundant)
"Looking to the open source community for applications that serve the same function as closed source solutions may cause vendors to be more flexible with pricing and licensing structures."
Nothing new.. (Score:2, Interesting)
To have a glimpse [google.com] of OSS and governments all over the world, just use good ol' google
Interesting to read is CNET on Governments push open-source software [com.com]
There's even a Getting Open Source Logic INto Governments (GOSLING) Community [goslingcommunity.org]
Somebody has to say it: (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Somebody has to say it: (Score:3, Insightful)
Kerry is MUCH closer to
traditional Republicans than Bush is.
No, we vote our pocketbook first, I think most conservatives in this day in age are more Libertarian (less government), which I think that's what Arnold is all about. Keep up defense, and education, however if people want to cut off their own heads, or marry their dogs let them.
An interesting opportunity for OSS Advocacy? (Score:2, Interesting)
The full report. (Score:2)
On th other hand, there's SC06 (Score:5, Interesting)
The whole suggestion is mangling of ideas, where the author treats "copyright" and "patents" as if they were the same thing. Here's my favorite paragraph:
They go on to claim that by using a code library - which will only need four librarians to handle all the code in the State:
Fortunately, we've got a 30 day period for public comment [ca.gov], so folk from California might want to chime in here!
Odd point (Score:2)
Where'd they get this from? I'm not sure what they mean by interfere, but even so, I don't recall any such part of the GPL, for instance.
I will now go read a copy of the GPL
Concise, yet to the point (Score:3, Interesting)
But, I don't suspect that this is something to get people like Microsoft to come down. Face it, in order to under bid open source, they'd have to give it out for free. You don't need a MS employee to come and install it, you just need a technician who knows what he's doing; likewise, some random from Red Hat doesn't have to come out and install Linux for you, some guy from MySQL AB doesn't have to come out and install MySQL, etc. You just need a random who knows what he's doing. Or in California's case, a whole lot of said randoms.
Now, that's not to say they'll work for free; they will naturally want to be put on the state payroll. Either way, you HAVE to pay somebody, and I suspect it probably won't be nearly as much as Microsoft would suggest with their "lower TCO" argument that they like to use with their examples of 7-11.
So, we'll wait and see.
And before people spec that CA will reneg on the deal, remember that Munich re-renegged.
I know his reasons why (Score:3, Funny)
And here I always thought SkyNet was Windows revenge for BSOD'
It's not the tool... (Score:3, Interesting)
I was involved in a major California project in the early 90's where my company was a sub to Lockheed. Some of you may have heard of it as "Dead Beat Dad" tracking.
The goal was to automate and establish information sharing between cities and counties in California with the additional tie-in of Federal data sharing.
The result hit the news well after I left the company; I was offered to take over the Project Management duties and I flatly refused. I worked long enough on the project in a support role to see the underlying flaws and why the project would never deliver to goal.
In order to meet the overall goal, it would require some 50+ county and several hundred city governments to literally cooperate on various details. Of course, the Los Angeles Metro area insisted on being treated like its own little kingdom.
You'll never get that many bureaucrats and policy wonks to ever cooperate toward a common goal.
Open Source won't do anything useful toward cost cutting since the technology isn't the cost load factor toward final cost.
And a built in programming staff to boot . . . (Score:5, Interesting)
So nobody else noticed the alteration to rule #9? (Score:3, Informative)
The original #9 on Mr. Perens' website("The license must not place restrictions on other software that is distributed along with the licensed software.") [opensource.org] is longer, and clearly GPL friendly; he goes out of his way to state that the GPL is in fact compliant with #9.
The report version is shorter with no explanation, and actually uses different phrasing: "License must not contaminate other software".
Sound familiar?
Re:Things you have to believe to be a republican (Score:2, Interesting)
Things you have to believe to be a democrat (Score:2, Interesting)
# People who use drugs deserve compassion and understanding -- unless their drug of choice is tobacco.
# Children can be exposed to years of violent and sexually-explicit imagery in popular culture with no ill effects, but an adult who is exposed to a racially insensitive remark is emotionally scarred for life.
# Banning abortions will only drive them underground, but banning guns will make them disappear.
# Teaching children about safe sex in school will make them
Re:Surreal.. (Score:2)
furthermore... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Aww man... (Score:2, Funny)
I don't see no horns
Re:a 2,500 page plan to overhaul state government (Score:5, Informative)
But I think you grossly underestimate Arnold if you don't think he has some sense of policy, especially this one. He's been talking about the waste in the government for quite some time now, and ran on a platform of getting rid of the waste -- not the programs.
Re:a 2,500 page plan to overhaul state government (Score:3, Interesting)
Unless a bill is higly controversial, it's pretty much guaranteed to pass once it makes it past appropriate committees, because even though they hate to admit it, the both parties negotiate those things behind the scenes (e.i. I'll pass your bill if you pass mine). In that case, reading of the bill on
Re:Not because he's good, but because he HAS to. (Score:5, Insightful)
THAT'S WHY WE FIRED DAVIS.
In a time when there's so much incompetence in doing one's job, someone who DOES do their job looks like hero.
Re:Not because he's good, but because he HAS to. (Score:2)
Of course, the same can be said for doing drugs and shooting people, if MTV has anything to say about it.
Re:Will go over like a lead balloon (Score:2)
That is nonsense and the kind of FUD I thought only came from Microsoft. There is absolutely no rule whatsoever that Open Source software is any different from proprietary software when it comes to employing people to do jobs. In fact specifically when it comes to governments, its conceivable that it might create jobs due to the specialist kinds of systems that a government needs to employ and use.
In addition to this I
Re:You Are a Fucking Idiot (Score:2)
Well, now, with such an intelligent, compelling argument, it's no wonder Microsoft and other proprietary vendors are hurting so bad.....
Oh wait.