Facebook Wins $873 Million Lawsuit Against Spammer

damn_registrars writes "A US District judge has awarded $873 million dollars to Facebook in a default judgment against a spammer who sent messages to Facebook users about drugs and sex. This is the highest award so far in a civil suit under the CAN-SPAM Act."

It's too much to discourage anyone.

[onion2k (203094)]

The Palo Alto, Calif.-based company predicted the judgment will be difficult to collect, but is hoping that its size discourages future abuses at its site.

Except it won't. It's too much. Basic psychology dictates that once you get above a certain risk people will start to ignore it because there's no difference between that and "everything". For people who don't have a great deal to start with losing everything isn't that big a deal. An amount that's a real tangible quantity that someone could conceivably earn is actually a bigger discouragement because people can imagine losing it, and that will put them off because if they can imagine themselves earning it they can envisage themselves losing it.

I'm not suggesting that it should have been any lower of course. I just think we need to be pragmatic about what a punishment is. If we want it to be something that puts other people off doing the same thing then we could think up something better.

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

[DogDude (805747)]

In the business world, it's simple. Shut down the corporation, and start another. It's too big to even consider paying, so the company that is being sued will just fold. That's why bars don't get insurance, generally: it's too expensive, and if something goes wrong, it's too expensive to deal with, so the bar's corporation just goes away, and it will generally re-launch under "new ownership". Happens every day.

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

[SpeedyDX (1014595)]

TFA specifically stated that the suit was filed "against Adam Guerbuez of Montreal and his business." Not having read the actual case file, I'm just going to assume that Facebook did file a suit against both Guerbuez AND his business. In such a case, I don't know if he can just hide behind his corporation (if it is incorporated).

IIRC, in Canada, if you are ordered to pay damages, the court order is permanent until you manage to pay it off or you die. The order survives through bankruptcy, so you can't just declare and have it magically wiped away. Does anyone know whether the U.S. has a similar system?

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

[CodeBuster (516420)]

In the United States, the effect of a bankruptcy discharge is to eliminate only the debtor's personal liability and not the in rem liability for a secured debt to the extent of the value of collateral (i.e. they can generally seize personal property pledged as collateral for debts subject to a few exceptions such as one's primary residence and retirement accounts which cannot be seized). Certain taxes owed to the Federal, state, or local governments, government guaranteed student loans, and child support obligations cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. However, from what I understand (IANAL) depending upon the filling, Chapter 11 or Chapter 7 (which is much harder to file now because of recent revisions to US bankruptcy law sponsored by credit card companies), any unsecured personal debts, except those described above, are discharged and secured creditors get the collateral that was pledged and that debt is discharged. Court judgments, with the exception of child support payments which are a special case, are by definition unsecured debts and so they probably would be discharged in a Chapter 7 (or possibly even a Chapter 11, subject to partial payment) bankruptcy, but again IANAL and courts sometimes legally define things in ways that are different from the rest of society.

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

[Kent Recal (714863)]

You, Sir, are now my official in rem collateral discharged child support super-hero!
Oh and IANAL but I don't belive that YANAL.

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

[Kawahee (901497)]

Holy shit, my brain.

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

[Itninja (937614)]

I hate spammers. I think the punishment should be really cruel...hang on my lawyers telling me something....really? Fine. Well then it should at least be something really unusual. That will stop these spam...wait...what? DAMMIT!

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

[lysergic.acid (845423)]

i found a loophole! the constitution only prohibits "cruel and unusual punishment." therefore, if you call it a prize/reward instead of a punishment, then you can make it as cruel and unusual as you want! right?

congratulations Mr. Guerbuez,
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Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

[Fluffeh (1273756)]

You know, I reckon it would have been much much better to shut the company down (yes the millions of dollars damages will shut it down and facebook might get a few grand out of it) but I say put the spammers into jail for a bit. Not over the top, but say six months?

Closing a company and starting it over in a new name isn't a deterrent. It's a business plan these guys have. Put the owner in the nick for a few months, and I bet he starts chirping a different tune.

Re:

[TehZorroness (1104427)]

Six months in prison is a long tiome for a crime that caused no physical harm to anyone.

Re:

[Bombula (670389)]

Here's an idea: use the government's statistical valuation of a human life (it's fallen recently to $6.9 million according to the NY Post) as a conversion unit of these massive financial judgments.

So a judgment of over $800 million is tantamount to killing 100 people. This is not really that far fetched, since $800 million could be used to save the lives of far more than 100 people - within the US too, without even resorting to saving starving folks in developed countries.

So, convert this $800+ million cha

Re:It's too much to discourage anyone.

[telchine (719345)]

So you suggest..what? String 'em up?

You damn liberals always want to be nice to the bad guys!!

I suggest we slice out their innards and then string 'em up!

Re:

[frosty_tsm (933163)]

You damn liberals always want to be nice to the bad guys!!

I suggest we slice out their innards and then string 'em up!

This witch hunt lacks fire...

This is one of those "statement awards"

[deft (253558)]

but from what I've seen, they get overturned, brought down to a reasonable level, or end upo being way more than the person can afford... which actually doesnt send a very good statement at all.

On the other hand... screw it, take his kidney.

Re:This is one of those "statement awards"

[plover (150551)]

On the other hand... screw it, take his kidney.

If they use an anesthetic, it's not really cruel, is it?

Re:This is one of those "statement awards"

[fm6 (162816)]

If he's into sex and drugs, his kidney is probably not very valuable. If only he had stuck with rock-and-roll...

Wow

[negRo_slim (636783)]

According to court documents, he did this in part by fraudulently gaining access to "legitimate" Facebook user accounts, either by phishing to gain login information or acquiring it from third parties.

"It's unlikely that Guerbuez and Atlantis Blue Capital could ever honor the judgment rendered against them (though we will certainly collect everything we can)," said Facebook. "But we are confident that this award represents a powerful deterrent to anyone and everyone who would seek to abuse Facebook and its users."

Roll over and take it, eh facebook users?

Re:Wow

[ettlz (639203)]

Roll over and take it, eh facebook users?

Yep, and take photos of it.

And then post those photos.

And tag the participants.

And set up a group for Rollers-over-and-Takers-of-It.

Irony?

[svvampy (576225)]

Facebook is my biggest source of spam, regaling me with the online exploits of people I once kinda knew.

Re:Irony?

[The Good Reverend (84440)]

Since you added them as friends, and can control what you see from each user, it's not really "Spam", is it?

Your half-hearted attempt to be a cool hater is recognized, but ultimately fails.

Re:

[sleeponthemic (1253494)]

Since you added them as friends, and can control what you see from each user, it's not really "Spam", is it?

Your half-hearted attempt to be a cool hater is recognized, but ultimately fails.

Amen, Reverend.

I don't get it

[by Anonymous Coward]

CAN-SPAM or CAN'T-SPAM?

Re:

[PRMan (959735)]

No, see it's like putting the meat-like product back in the...well, you see, it's a verb that means the process of canning, and, uh,

Cue Mark Hamill as the Joker: "If you have to explain a joke, it's not funny!"

Should we celebrate? The same as Spamhaus?

[whoever57 (658626)]

This appears to be a default judgment against a non-US entity. Is this so much different from the much-derided judgment against Spamhaus?

Re:

[John Hasler (414242)]

> Is this so much different from the much-derided judgment against Spamhaus?

Yes. It is quite possible that a Canadian court will honor the judgement and Facebook will be able to bankrupt the guy.

I suppose we know how to fill in #2

[TheRealMindChild (743925)]

1) Start spamable website
2) ???
3) Profit

Re:I suppose we know how to fill in #2

[Rayeth (1335201)]

Yeah apparently the ??? has always stood for "Sue".

"said Facebook"

[CannonballHead (842625)]

I am not sure why, but I find it comical that "Facebook" said something... although it would have been funnier had it said "blah blah blah," posted Facebook on the Associated Press's wall.

the story

[roman_mir (125474)]

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) -- Facebook has won a $873 million judgment against a Canadian man who bombarded users with millions of unsolicited messages about drugs and sex.

U.S. District Judge Jeremy Fogel signed the default judgment Friday, resolving a lawsuit that Facebook filed in August against Adam Guerbuez of Montreal and his business, Atlantis Blue Capital.

Facebook alleged that Guerbuez had fooled users into revealing their passwords so he could send out more than 4 million messages that included promotions for marijuana. Guerbuez could not be located for comment.

The Palo Alto, Calif.-based company predicted the judgment will be difficult to collect, but is hoping that its size discourages future abuses at its site.

- that fine is impossible to collect, forget about 'difficult', the schmuck certainly doesn't have money like that, or he wouldn't be in this busines. Still, it is nice to see that American corporation can win something like that against a Canadian citizen. Now how about the rest of the spammers? Can you please PLEASE win a lawsuit against those Nigerians! AND THEY CAN PAY!!! They have so many billions it's not funny.

Re:

[roman_mir (125474)]

you are probably right, but he better never step onto US territory.

Re:

[arthurpaliden (939626)]

Why would any one really want to, step into US teritory that is.

$873 million you say? Really?

[i_want_you_to_throw_ (559379)]

Well good luck collecting it. Mod me down if you must but I just don't see the point in awarding ridiculous amounts that will never be collected. Besides who even knows if that IS the real amount justified?

Reminds me of companies saying how hackers cost them gazillions of dollars because they copied a manual or some dumb shit back in the late 80s/early 90s.

Guess I'm a cynic about any judgements being made by non technical people on technical issues. Not that spam is rocket surgery....

Wow!

[MightyMartian (840721)]

Facebook Wins $873 Million Lawsuit Against Spammer

Isn't that only like half the valuation of your average dot-com startup in 1998?

But does it come in the shade of ridiculous

[sakonofie (979872)]

Well just because TFA is just that short, here it is in new bold action:

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) â" Facebook has won a $873 million judgment against a Canadian man who bombarded users with millions of unsolicited messages about drugs and sex.
U.S. District Judge Jeremy Fogel signed the default judgment Friday, resolving a lawsuit that Facebook filed in August against Adam Guerbuez of Montreal and his business, Atlantis Blue Capital.
Facebook alleged that Guerbuez had fooled users into revealing their passwords so he could send out more than 4 million messages that included promotions for marijuana. Guerbuez could not be located for comment.
The Palo Alto, Calif.-based company predicted the judgment will be difficult to collect, but is hoping that its size discourages future abuses at its site.

So the standard cost of a foreigner sending me spam is ~$200 per message if they don't show up to court?

Also Facebook, please don't file lawsuits that you don't expect to have any direct impact. The courts are busy enough without you.

Judgment Not Worth the Paper It's Printed On

[kilgortrout (674919)]

This is a default judgment against a foreign entity which undoubtedly is nothing more than an empty shell corporation with no assets. There is a reason they didn't bother to come and defend this action - the judgment is uncollectable. Talk about your pyrrhic victories.

Re:Judgment Not Worth the Paper It's Printed On

[John Hasler (414242)]

> This is a default judgment against a foreign entity which undoubtedly is nothing more
> than an empty shell corporation with no assets.

The judgement was awarded against the spammer personally as well as against his "company" which FaceBook's lawyers say is fictitious.

> There is a reason they didn't bother to come and defend this action - the judgment is
> uncollectable.

FaceBook's lawyers say otherwise. They say they know who he is, where he is, that he has substantial assets, and that they intend to take those assets.

Re:

[cencithomas (721581)]

...and is that name attached to an actual human being?

Because if I were the spammer, I sure as heck wouldn't be using my real name to get the job done.

Enfoecement

[MountainLogic (92466)]

Now if Facebook will just forward their bank account information to Nigeria I'm sure the spammer will send them the money plus a large fee

The next lawsuit.

[Zathain Sicarius (1398033)]

Maybe they will sue the creators of all those applications that do nothing but spew out invites...

In a fair world

[Star Particle (1409451)]

Facebook should collect the money then cut a check to each and every one of its users that are actually subjected to the spam.

Right?

Re:

[Firehed (942385)]

$8 a person? A class-action payout if ever I've seen one.

Coincidence?

[Citizen of Earth (569446)]

awarded $873 million dollars to Facebook

In a strange coincidence, the odds of Facebook collecting any money from the spammer are also 873-million to one.

Who gets the money?

[izomiac (815208)]

Hypothetically, if the $837M judgment could be collected, who would receive it, Facebook or the users who were spammed? (I only ask in an attempt to be less cynical.) I mean, sure, Facebook might have lost a few users due to the spam, and there in had a reduction in the subsequent ad revenue, but $837M worth? It seems to me they're being rewarded for allowing someone to exploit their system...

Re:

[tompaulco (629533)]

Facebook: "Look, we can't just accept pay to allow you to spam our users. That is not the image we want to convey for our company. But perhaps there is another way?"

Is this the Crazypricks.com guy?

[by Anonymous Coward]

Same name, same city.

This is a story from 2003 http://www.montrealmirror.com/ARCHIVES/2003/091803/news2.html

A Montreal company that makes and sells videos of people gleefully assaulting local vagrants and persuading them to perform humiliating acts is not only exploitative but is also breaking the law, say local social workers and police. The 90-minute Crazypricks Disturbing the Peace has - according to its creator Adam Guerbuez - sold over "2,000 to 3,000 copies a month" since its June release and was created in conjunction with a Web site that shows other such material to 9,000 paid subscribers who get to see updates every two weeks.... ...

Guerbuez, who says he had put $10,000 into the video and Web site, was acquitted last year for his involvement in an assault that led to the death of a man in 2000. He had been a longtime participant in racist-skinhead groups, although no more, he claims. "I have no time for that" these days, says the self-described businessman.

Why?

[by Anonymous Coward]

Why would facebook get any money? Facebook didn't get the spam, their users did. That money should be awarded to the facebook users who actually received the spam. Facebook users should file lawsuits against Facebook for getting that spam. Seems they would have a good chance of winning since Facebook set the precedence with their win.

Re:

[negRo_slim (636783)]

I'm pretty sure FB is loving this because they have got to be strapped for cash without any real business plan.

What you mean providing a psuedo geocities/flickr/youtube/email service isn't going to make you money?

Re:

[TheRaven64 (641858)]

Yup, certainly no other company is making any money from advertising (especially not any search companies), and building a network of everyone's friends, interests, likes, dislikes, certainly isn't a good way of building better targeted adverts.

Re:

[Firehed (942385)]

I think you've confused Facebook with Twitter. I don't know whether Facebook is profitable or not, but they definitely have a business plan.

Re:

[justinlee37 (993373)]

If I send you a message on facebook, is that not e-mail? Granted it doesn't fit certain standard protocols, but it's still an online message, right?