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Duplicating Your Housekeys, From a Distance

Posted by timothy on Thu Oct 30, 2008 01:51 PM
from the keep-your-key-up-your-sleeve dept.
Roland Piquepaille writes "Some clever computer scientists at UC San Diego (UCSD) have developed a software that can perform key duplication with just a picture of the key — taken from up to 200 feet. One of the researchers said 'we built our key duplication software system to show people that their keys are not inherently secret.' He added that on sites like Flickr, you can find many photos of people's keys that can be used to easily make duplicates. Apparently, some people are blurring 'numbers on their credit cards and driver's licenses before putting those photos on-line,' but not their keys. This software project is quite interesting, but don't be too afraid. I don't think that many of you put a photo of their keys online — with their addresses." I wonder when I'll be able to order more ordinary duplicate keys by emailing in a couple of photos.
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  • wow (Score:5, Funny)

    by EncryptedSoldier (1278816) on Thursday October 30 2008, @01:53PM (#25573457)
    looks like hiding your key in that rock was a good idea after all :)
  • by db32 (862117) on Thursday October 30 2008, @01:55PM (#25573495) Journal
    It seems to me that the number of incidences where this could possibly be an issue is astronomically slim. Need picture of key, need to know where the key goes, and need the method of duplicating key with picture accurately enough to be of use. Then there has to be a pretty impresive reason why any of the other less complicated and faster ways of breaking in wouldn't be useful.
    • I'm sure a stalker could get get all except for 'method of duplicating key with picture accurately enough to be of use' without much work, now if the they happen to be reading slashdot today...

    • by JohnnyLocust (855742) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:18PM (#25573829) Homepage
      There's a story from 2005 about a locksmith who made a copy of a key from an x-ray of some poor guy who somehow swallowed his key:

      http://www.boingboing.net/2005/06/25/locksmith-makes-key-.html
    • by zippthorne (748122) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:19PM (#25573849) Journal

      Not quite. Depending on the key, of course, all you need to do is get the code and figure out the style. Then you could get replacements sent to you from the manufacturer.

      In fact, some keys (I'm talking to you, cheap schlage locks) print the key code ON THE KEY, so you wouldn't even need to do any kind of fitting if the photo happened to be of the right side.

      But, of course, why bother having a particularly secure lock, when your all-metal steel-bolted door is right next to a 6 foot plate-glass bay window?

      • by JayAitch (1277640) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:35PM (#25574083)

        But, of course, why bother having a particularly secure lock, when your all-metal steel-bolted door is right next to a 6 foot plate-glass bay window?

        For some new houses use a utility knife cut thru the vinyl siding, foam sheeting, and kick thru the drywall for easy access.

        • by John Hasler (414242) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:47PM (#25574257)

          Variations on that method would work on most frame houses built during the last fifty years but burglars still attack doors and windows. This, of course, is because most are remarkably stupid (intelligent criminals go into politics).

    • by zappepcs (820751) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:21PM (#25573863) Journal

      How much more wrong could you be? Got an enemy? Drink in the same bars? Got a camera phone? ... is the idea sinking in?

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Because breaking in in the hundreds of other ways or just kicking my ass in the parking lot is FAR easier than going through all of that rigamarole. My point is this is probably the most difficult and time consuming method to achieve the goal with minimal benefit. That goes along the same lines of saying that gun control laws stop murder. If the criminal is going to commit murder with the gun, do you think it really matters to him that he is breaking the law by owning the gun?
        • It's a lot easier to steal shit if no one has any idea you were there in the first place.

          Neighbor: "db32's on vacation... what are you doing here?"
          Thief: "Oh, he gave me a key to watch the house, see?"
          Neighbor: "Oh, alright then."

          Thief proceeds to park in the garage, load up car with everything, and leave, with days (or weeks) of lead time to unload stolen goods.

          It's not a bad idea to keep your keys from being photographed. People will use a much more difficult way of breaking in if it gives them a better chance of not getting caught.

      • No wonder they told us not to bring cameras to all those Key Parties [wikipedia.org] in the '70s. They saw this coming.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      It seems to me that the number of incidences where this could possibly be an issue is astronomically slim. Need picture of key, need to know where the key goes, and need the method of duplicating key with picture accurately enough to be of use.

      This wouldn't work for picking someone at random.

      However, if you wanted the keys to a specific place, it sounds like it would be entirely feasible to do a little targeted surveillance and get your key.

      Still, demonstrating that you can do it means someone will find a r

    • I don't rate this as 'zomg the l337 key haxx on my doorz' but for those with evil intent it is a security risk.

      People assume a fancy lock and solid door ensure security. People also assume someone with a key to open a door generally belongs there. If I wanted to commit a 'broad daylight' crime this would greatly simplify things.

      Heck, if a cop shows up and you've got a working key and a reasonable excuse you're pretty likely to be left alone.

      • by grahamsz (150076) on Thursday October 30 2008, @04:08PM (#25575403) Homepage Journal

        I've seen it done. Thieves backed a truck up to one of the homes in my neighborhood, opened the garage door, wheeled out the appliances and left.

        I saw it happen as did several other neighbors, but it was one of the showhomes the builder was trying to sell and we figured that they buyer probably wanted a different appliance option and they were just going to switch them out. In retrospect they probably went into the home when it was showing on the weekend and left a window unlatched.

        They did it on a weekday afternoon, broad daylight and wearing somewhat matching uniforms and they just blended in.

      • by TheLink (130905) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:08PM (#25573683) Journal

        The keys in the pic seem to be the crappy "2-D" sort that are vulnerable to "bump keys".

        It'll be much easier to just make a bump key and use it to break in covertly, than to bother making the "same key". Google for bump key videos.

        You'd probably need better pics to make duplicates of those "3-D" keys - those with wedges and so on.

        • by mlts (1038732) * on Thursday October 30 2008, @03:05PM (#25574475)

          Chubb (the venerable English lock maker) actually has a prison lock where part of its construction is to make it resistant to eyeballing by inmates, so they can't memorize the cuts on it and create a copy with sheet metal or another source.

          Other than that, a few keys that are eyeball resistant that come to mind are the Shlage Primus, and the Medeco3 key, because someone would have to eyeball the slider, the pin depth cuts, and the angles of the cuts for the pins to rotate.

          • by TheLink (130905) on Thursday October 30 2008, @03:36PM (#25574941) Journal

            While it's true you can't "bump" Medeco3 locks and you can't "eyeball" them easily, the photo thing works (I'm not sure but the Shlage Primus looks vulnerable too). http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/08/medeco-locks-cr.html [wired.com]

            I wonder how easy it is to copy the Abloy style keys.

            New abloy key: http://www.abloyusa.com/images/execkey.gif [abloyusa.com]

            Old: http://www.abloyusa.com/images/classickey.gif [abloyusa.com]

            I'm guessing that for the classic key there's a small set of possible angles. If that's true you should be able to easily copy it from a photo (if you can see enough of the angles).

            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              Disklock Pros are rather hard to copy.

              Taking eyeballing out of the picture - even if you have the code for the key on hand, your first problem is getting a blank.

              Blanks are restricted, but even if you manage to get your hands on them, they're pre-cut at the abloy factory [usually 2 pins] depending on your account with them - to prevent locksmiths with less scruples than others cutting abloys.

              Then of course, there's the machine to cut them. Even if you're filing by hand, the tolerances are fine, and the key

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        true but having a key would be a clean, easy, covert break in. It would be easy to get a picture of the key if you think about it, and knowing where it goes. The only thing is how easy and cost effective this technology would be. I still think it's kinda cool, but scary.

        Think about it and it's actually pretty simple. Let's say you have a burglar who wants to rob a particular house (or group of same). They're probably going to case the neighbourhood beforehand anyways and many of them will use a camera to get specific shots as memory aids. 200 feet away from a front door provides many areas of cover and a telephoto lens could provide the optical accuracy.

        Throw in the fact that many (most?) insurance companies won't pay out in the case of a break-in without signs of forcef

      • Bump keys (Score:4, Insightful)

        by thestuckmud (955767) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:24PM (#25573907)
        Well the word is out on bump keys, which are an easier method of entry in most cases, yet burglaries are down [npr.org]. I don't see key photos as a particularly meaningful threat to most of us.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        This is what Assa-Abloy's Cliq technology is for. The cylinder has a small chip which gets power from a battery on the key, and if the key is correct (it uses a challenge/response system to validate the key's serial number), it will retract a small solenoid. The rest of the cylinder is mechanical with the same pick resistance as the line its in, be it Abloy Protech, Mul T Lock, or Medeco.

  • I don't know about M. Piquepaille, but it's not very hard to find my address online. How many places am I going to have keys for? My house, my car, my bike, and my mailbox. That's pretty much it. Besides, I geotag just about every picture I post to flickr. But who takes pictures of keys?
  • by hcdejong (561314) <acme AT xmsnet DOT nl> on Thursday October 30 2008, @01:57PM (#25573517)

    The mind boggles.

  • by cjfs (1253208) on Thursday October 30 2008, @01:58PM (#25573523) Homepage Journal
    Locks are to keep honest people out.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Indeed; I'd rather they took a picture of my key with a telephoto lens and got in that way than to have them break a window. Unfortunately, thieves are lazy or they'd get a job and it's a hell of a lot asier to break a window or use a crowbar on the door than to go to the trouble of photographing your key.

      That's one thing I hate about my car - the goddamn "open trunk" button. Previous cars I'd leave the doors unlocked and nothing of value inside, and windows down if the weather permitted (because thieves ar

  • Who? (Score:4, Funny)

    by whisper_jeff (680366) on Thursday October 30 2008, @01:58PM (#25573535)
    Who uploads photos of themselves (or others) holding credit cards or keys? In my entire life, I don't think I've EVER even TAKEN a photo like that, let alone thought about sharing it. Am I just bizarre or is it the people on Flickr? Ok, admittedly it could be both, but still....
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      It's not so much holding the cards/keys, it's taking a picture where that's accidentally in the frame, and in fairly readable view. For an example, let's say you're selling something on eBay (insert obligatory Police Squad! joke here). It's not something that their stock pictures will cover, so you need to take a picture of it. Let's also assume that you don't have a photo studio handy, nor do you have an area of your house/apartment specially designed with a stage and neutral backdrop on which to take p

  • by pigiron (104729) on Thursday October 30 2008, @01:59PM (#25573539) Homepage
    I locked my Cadillac once and left my keys lying on the drivers seat. The locksmith successfully cut a new door key by hand just by looking at the key through the window.
    • by wfstanle (1188751) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:17PM (#25573813)

      That's nothing! On the Discovery Health channel there was a story about a man that swallowed his friend's car key. They were too drunk to drive home and he wanted to prevent his friend from driving while drunk. To make a long story short, the spare key was lost and they they were able to make duplicate keys from an X-Ray that clearly showed the key.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      A friend of mine during college used the same technique to duplicate a master key that fit most of the doors in our (somewhat small) school. He's always been an interesting character, though. That was several years ago and today he's a sysadmin but on the weekends he practices blacksmithing.

      • by ivan256 (17499) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:53PM (#25574331)

        Try that on any '90s/early 2000s Cadillac. You can probably successfully break the window motor or wires, but you won't be getting the door open. The lock mechanism is low, and forward in the doors, slides horizontally, and is behind a metal bar. It's not like the typical car lock which is an actuated metal rod near the top back corner of the door. You would have to know exactly what the inside of the door looked like, and have bends in exactly the right spots on the tool to get the door open, and you'd have to get lucky that you don't short something.

        It only takes a couple minutes to file some notches in brass. Probably less time than it takes to slim jim a Cadillac. And I know if I had the skills to eyeball something like that I'd show it off every chance I got.

      • by agrounds (227704) on Thursday October 30 2008, @04:03PM (#25575311)

        I call bullshit.

        I've had locksmiths get my key out, and they have a flat piece of metal (cops carry them too) that they can slide down where the window goes and have the door open in five seconds. No need whatever to make a key to open it.

        Twenty bucks to come out to the car, a buck fifty for a new key. Yet he's going to go to that trouble to make a key?

        How fucking stupid do you think we are?

        Hello, and welcome to the Post-80s world! This is a brave new place where car doors are designed for this absolutely not to work any longer, even if you could get past all the crap and to the mechanisms. Also, we have this thing called the "internet" where you can see naked pictures. Oh, and Molly Ringwald is no longer hot.

        No. We still don't have flying cars.

  • by TheNecromancer (179644) on Thursday October 30 2008, @01:59PM (#25573545)

    make copies of my keys. Have fun "playing" with my pitbull waiting for you on the other side of the door.

    • Does your pitbull like playing with a well swung crowbar? Dogs are not a panacea, especially against someone who knows what he's doing.
      • Does your pitbull like playing with a well swung crowbar? Dogs are not a panacea, especially against someone who knows what he's doing.

        Haha, you wouldn't get a chance to swing it. The dog would be on you the moment you opened the door, and once he has a lock on your arm/leg/whatever, all thoughts of swinging said crowbar would leave your mind. I'm not saying dogs are a panacea, but it was a tongue-in-cheek response to the fact that most burglars are deterred by other means of home protection (dogs, guns, security systems, etc.).

        • by Kingrames (858416) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:21PM (#25573859)
          Clearly you are unaware that u38cg has taken the Improved Initiative feat.
        • True. In general, you don't need to be really secure, you just need to be more secure than your next door neighbour. Generally, planting a rose bush under your window and leaving some lights on accomplishes that.

          Someone who knows what they are doing is a bit more difficult - I speak from experience. I grew up in riding schools, which generally have a lot of very expensive tack sitting in very insecure tackrooms, which often contain a dog. More than once I've seen or heard of an empty tackroom with a d

  • You mean like this [wired.com], but from 200 feet away?

    It's only a matter of time before Google Maps 0wns your keys.

  • by ChenLiWay (260829) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:00PM (#25573569)

    Keys only serve to keep honest people honest. A lock pick and torsion bar can mimic any (average) key anyways.

    The story is interesting (on the subject of computer vision) but shouldn't scare anyone.

      • Torsion bars only use the strength of a regular key ... If they broke under that they would be usless for any key.
  • by line-bundle (235965) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:18PM (#25573821) Homepage Journal

    I have a great idea: use Hubble to get a picture of the key to the universe and ask walmart to make it very cheaply.

  • Get into my house however you want, my wife is going through menopause, she's bi-polar, and she has my shotgun.
  • by Mr. Firewall (578517) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:18PM (#25573825) Homepage

    Remember the old days when swingers used to have "key parties?"

    For the young and innocent who have never been exposed to such debauchery -- they would get together and throw all the mens' motel room keys in a hat. Then the ladies would pick them out of the hat and go to that key's room....

    Well, now the possibilities for adultfriendfinder dot com have just been expanded... Just post a picture of your key and wait for your new friends to show up!

  • by ProppaT (557551) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:20PM (#25573857) Homepage

    I can't even get those chumps at home depot to give me a copy that works when they're using the original, much less a photograph.

  • Who needs the profile of an individual key when you can open any lock of the same type with a simple filed down key [wikipedia.org]?
  • by Cthefuture (665326) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:40PM (#25574147)

    The best antitheft device on my car is the manual transmission. ;)

    • Re:interesting.... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by snowraver1 (1052510) on Thursday October 30 2008, @02:25PM (#25573937)
      I think your efforts are in vain. You are way more likely to have some thug just break the door down or smash a window. Usually the people that break into your house do not have the foresight to plan to this degree.

      I think that a more valuable use of resources would be to recyle the tinfoil sitting on your head.