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Nvidia Problems Hit HP Desktops
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Oct 14, 2008 07:44 AM
from the realm-of-the-plausible dept.
from the realm-of-the-plausible dept.
Barence writes "HP has revealed faults with 38 different models in its slimline PC range, sparking speculation that Nvidia's faulty GPU problems have spread beyond laptops. HP's official statement says the problems are 'attributable to the computer's motherboard" and that affected machines 'may not boot or may not display video' — the same kind of terminology used to describe the previous faults with laptop GPUs. Both HP and Nvidia have declined to comment. But in a filing to the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) earlier this year, Nvidia admitted 'there can be no assurance that we will not discover defects in other MCP or GPU products.'" Note: the linked story (updated since this submission) says that Yes, the problems are now confirmed to be rooted in the Nvidia GPUs.
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Don't worry. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Okay, so HP doesn't show video anymore, neither does mac ... but that minor issue aside, we're still able to crack the WPA key's http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/12/1724230 [slashdot.org] with it , right ?
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I don't worry too much, after all I can get an ATI 4670 for around 80 Euros. So it would suck if my MSI GeForce dies but I can afford to replace it.
Re:Don't worry. (Score:5, Informative)
I strongly suspect that Nvidia did their best to not lie to the SEC, given the potential penalties for doing so; but they haven't exactly overdone the honesty elsewhere.
Parent
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At least the problems with those processors didn't tend to turn the computer into a breeze block.
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The Pentium fdiv bug... According to Intel, the calculations were wrong in one case in billions or so (only floating point operations). Even the most critical estimations showed one error in 42,000 or so cases (using Excel spreadsheets with multiple calculations per run).
This compares favourably with totally broken computers.
who... (Score:2, Insightful)
brbut still: information on this fuckup is hard to find, non-concrete statements everywhere. why not have a tool that reads the s/n of the GPU, checks it and warns if your gpu is faulty? i'm owning a dell notebook which, according to dell, is not affected. but nevertheless dell put a bios-update online for my modell which obviously changed something concerning ventilation. being vague is not always the way to go.
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I have a dell Vostro that is affected, and the warranty ran out at the end of last month.. The BIOS update only changed the way the fans run. Previously they would run at whatever speed was needed at the time to cool the laptop, now, they run at full speed regardless. To me, that is not much of a fix, my laptop still runs incredibly hot, to the point I suspect it will fail soon.
I am hoping for a recall, but I doubt that will happen, it is the only true way to resolve the problem, but it would be costly, a
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My girlfriend went off to teach English in Japan for a year.
I'm so glad I picked out the embedded Intel crap instead of the Nvidia 8400 or whatever the next cheapest option was.
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The only good Nvidia GPUs are the 8800 GTX, the 7xxx series, and prior.
The G280s should be fine, but we really don't know.
Nvidia is also pumping out G260s and such that are really rebranded 8xxx cores. All of the 8xxx cores being sold as a G2xx should be fine (since they finished updating their manufacturing process), but they have NOT had thorough testing (by Nvidia themselves) or any updates to the power distribution (which is dangerous since they've changed bump and solder materials).
nVidia is being sued by their shareholders? (Score:2, Insightful)
For "covering up" the faulty GPUs? Hey, if they signed contracts with the OEMs on these chips leaving the announcements to them, then that's the brakes -- they can't talk about it. What would you expect them to do?
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You can't sign such things away.
Company Press Conference:
"Oh I'm sorry we didn't announce that we lost $72 billion last month due to [insert asset price collapse here], but we signed a contract with those other guy over there leaving it to them so legally we couldn't do so. Pardon? I fail to see what me selling all my stock last week has to do with any of this, next question."
And I expect them to meet the SEC requirements for being a public company.
AMD/ATI? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:AMD/ATI? (Score:5, Interesting)
This gives me another reason to recommend AMD/ATI over nVidia. The first one being that nVidia refuses to release their card specs, unlike AMD and Intel.
Parent
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Can you provide more details on this?
I always thought that nVidia had excellent drivers and open platform, while ATI was pain in the ass for several years.
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Have you used an nVidia card on Linux? The drivers are fine, but they come as a binary blob.
ATI has always had crap drivers, but they recently started releasing specs. I don't know what affect this has had on the driver situation, since I don't have a current ATI card.
ATI Linux Support == Total Crap (Score:4, Insightful)
It's hardly affected it at all.
ATI Linux drivers are still total crap compared to NVidia's.
I would rather have a funded, supported binary blob that works over a bunch of unsupported unfunded drivers and open specifications any day.
Try to use any modern ATI card in an Linux-based HTPC that has to support HD video, and see how far you get.
Parent
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I agree with you.. Also not to forget about various SDKs that nVidia has, stereo drivers etc.
ATI is total crap software and driver-wise. If nVidia has serious problems, nobody wins.
Re:ATI Linux Support == Total Crap (Score:4, Insightful)
My peeve with ATI is lack of OpenGL Windows extensions (which extends to Linux). ATI tends not to add EXTs even when the card supports the hardware (for instance, geometry shaders, which are supported in DirectX but not in OpenGL, and likely won't be supported in OpenGL until they become ARB, knowing ATI, so maybe OGL3.1).
I think ATI has a better scalable design and better heat properties (in SLI they rule the roost in power consumption, heat dissipation and throughput). Shader performance is still fairly poor on ATI cards, but they make up for it by massive amounts of shaders. ATI has had memory bandwidth issues in the past, but I haven't checked lately.
So basically, from a DirectX Windows only perspective, ATI is one of the best routes to go. From an OpenGL Linux, Windows, or MacOS X perspective, I prefer nVidia because they tend to support the latest public extensions (EXT is the agreed upon name and likely ARB - vendor only extensions have a vendor code like _ATI or _NV).
Parent
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Actually I have heard the latest drivers are actually pretty good
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_rhd3300_790&num=1 [phoronix.com].
And the FOSS drivers are making a lot of progress.
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So you are telling us that you are now swearing to Intel CPU's and AMD/ATI GPU's ? :-)
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in a filing to the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) earlier this year, Nvidia admitted 'there can be no assurance that we will not discover defects in other MCP or GPU products.'"
At least they are being honest? It's not like they are denying claims and trying to hide it (not that ATI does, but you have to respect honest companies).
Anyone know if physics processing is now being done on ATI cards, or is it Nvidia only?
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Does ATI make any integrated graphics solutions that are not tied to the AMD bus?
An Atom running on an Intel version of the 780G would be really handy for people building lower power systems.
Of course I actually like AMD still. They make CPUs that are fast enough that are very cheap. Combine that with the 780G and you have a great low cost solution.
Bring on the nVidia Macbooks! (Score:2)
OK EU, the blanket Pb ban had the best intentions (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:OK EU, the blanket Pb ban had the best intentio (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:OK EU, the blanket Pb ban had the best intentio (Score:2)
Re:OK EU, the blanket Pb ban had the best intentio (Score:4, Informative)
"Los Angeles (CA) â" A tiny material issue in Nvidiaâ(TM)s GPUs has cost Nvidia $200 million so far: The problem boils down to the solder bump material, in Nvidiaâ(TM)s case high-lead that was used in all of the firmâ(TM)s GPUs that were produced until late July , and we still do not know how serious the issue really is. According to our sources, Nvidia has switched to eutectic solder bumps in recent weeks and there is now a new, apparently independent research report, that claims that eutectic solder bumps, which are used for example by AMDâ(TM)s ATI unit, may live much longer than high-lead versions. Of course, switching to eutectic isnâ(TM)t the entire solution, as the material has a much lower melting point than high-lead."
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/39506/135/ [tgdaily.com]
Parent
Re:the blanket Pb ban had the best intentions (Score:4, Insightful)
The failing solderbumps were high-lead solder. The solution was to switch to a eutectic solder, which has less lead. So why would RoHS anti-lead policies be to blame?
Parent
Implied Warranty - Look into it in your state (Score:2)
I've seen so many notebooks (mostly HP dv6000 and dv9000 series) being hit with this lately that it's unbelievable. And yes, HP did release an extended service offer for a few specific models; it tacks one year to the end of your current warranty. Even if you have an HP notebook that is one of the affected models, they won't touch it unless it fails within that 24-month period. Month 25? Sorry, time to shop for a new one.
Well, in my state there is an implied warranty law that applies here: Consumer Law [maine.gov]
Possible Recall? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Possible Recall? (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a problem with your math there,you see you forgetting about Y,which is how many customers turn on your company after you burn them and tell all their friends their horror story so they never buy your product either.
Let me give an example: A former teacher USED to go to Walmart all the time. It wasn't far from his home,and since he was a DIY type he often spent 500-$800 a month there. They burnt him on a $40 battery that was less than a week old because he couldn't find his receipt,even though it is a brand only sold at Walmart. Since that was 3 years ago and he hasn't been in since at the minimum $500 they have lost $18000 for the price of a battery. He also has several friends who trust his judgment and are now going to Target like he does. Add in the money they would have spent and you can easily double that.
You see,I learned a little rule a long time ago: Give a customer a good experience and they'll brag on you to three to five of their friends. Treat a customer like shit and they'll go out of their way to tell everyone they know how you suck and should be avoided like the clap. It would cost HP next to nothing to keep some comparable spares in a warehouse and simply change out the HDD when a customer sends in a bad one. Give them even the tiniest of upgrades at the same time and you will have a customer that gushes about your service. Burn that customer and he/she'll make DAMNED sure to let everyone know what a lousy POS company you are. And considering that Dell and Acer is out there happy to take their business that really doesn't sound like a smart move,does it?
Parent
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Are there a lot of these kinds of problems? What manufacturer do you work for ?
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A new laptop built by my company overheats and the video card dies.
The laptop battery then explodes, trapping and burning coworkers in several nearby cubicles.
Slimline = laptop graphics (Score:2)
Unless anyone specifically knows it to be otherwise, it's pretty safe to assume that these GPUs are the same ones as used in laptops. "Slimline" computers generally use laptop graphics and other components.
In other words, this isn't actually news, basically.
Nvidia Lies - So What's New? (Score:2)
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Yeah my hp laptop died also, was only 4 months old so they fixed it with no hassle. Might get the extended warranty now though.
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Faith is usually misplaced with companies. Most of them have sucked at one point or another. All you can do is do some research about current products and hope there is no hidden problem brewing.
When I last bought a graphics card it was an NVidia 8600GT because of ATI's still-questionable Linux support at the time (the Open Source driver project was announced but nothing delivered yet). N
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AFAIK, right now the closed source NVidia drivers are still better than ATI's, either open or closed source. But I expect the Open Source stuff to catch up and the proprietary drivers to break sooner or later.
For my NVidia 8600 GT, for instance, there are no current Windows 2000 drivers available anymore. You can get an old version from the MSI website, but the system was never quite stable under Windows 2000. After switching to XP and current drivers things are fine - but it required changing the OS.
Simila
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I remember this. I had this problem too. It wasn't necessarily the GPU, because my GPU is running great, hitting great benchmarks (8400 GS).
The nVidia PCB problem has not had anything to do with performance hits either. It's a matter of quality and how long it is expected to last before the hardware gets knocked out.
This may not have been the case here, but still, performance hasn't had anything to do with it.
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I had seriously considered getting an HP Pavilion desktop with the nVidia graphics chipset but I fortunately thought better of the idea. That's why I have a Pavilion a6400f with the Intel G33 graphics chipset--not the most capable but at least it's reasonably stable. :-)
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Your problem will be that while fixed chips will be out there, so will the remainder of the unfixed ones. Telling the difference will intentionally not be easy.
Re:This is disappointing-More Disappointing (Score:2)