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China's Cyberwar Against India
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Mon May 05, 2008 07:40 AM
from the no-no-we're-cool-promise dept.
from the no-no-we're-cool-promise dept.
An anonymous reader writes "China's cyber warfare army is marching on, and India is suffering silently. Over the past one and a half years, officials said, China has mounted almost daily attacks on Indian computer networks, both government and private, showing its intent and capability."
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Submission: China starts cyberwar against India by Anonymous Coward
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Technology: Beyond Firewalls — Internet Militarization 83 comments
angry tapir writes "One of the discussions at the Source Boston Security Showcase has been the militarization of the Internet. Governments looking to silence critics and stymie opposition have added DDOS attacks to their censoring methods, according to Jose Nazario, senior security researcher at Arbor Networks, with international political situations spawning DDOS attacks."
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Hmmmmmm Spelling? (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Hmmmmmm Spelling? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Hmmmmmm Spelling? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Hmmmmmm Spelling? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
US Spy Incident (Score:2)
Re:US Spy Incident (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Anyone know what the "US spy incident" is that is mentioned at the end of the article?
A US diplomat Rosanne Minchew who was part of a joint Indo-US Cyber Security Initiative, was asked to leave the country and three Indian working with her were jailed for leaking documents from National Security Council. NSC is like a clearing house of all intelligence inputs and apparently they leaked India's nuclear plans, Naval plans for the Indian Ocean etc. You can read more here http://www.indianexpress.com/sunday/story/7712.html [indianexpress.com] http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/jul/04spy.htm [rediff.com] http://www.indosec.org/Hi [indosec.org]
Of all the countries.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Of all the countries.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Secondly, the best and the brightest do not stay behind and come to the US or go to other western countries instead, often because of an educational system that is so heavily biased through reservations [wikipedia.org] (similar to affirmative action).
Finally, those that do stay behind are better off in the private sector, rather than the extremely corrupt public sector where bribes and nepotism are the order of the day. Or perhaps academia.
So, no, doing well in the IT sector has been a function of being in the right place at the right time (and speaking the right language and having a currency that is a fraction of the US dollar). This is not to say that there isn't technology talent in India -- but rather that like the rest of the world, there is good, bad and ugly. Only, given that there are a billion people, lots of people in each category.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Reservations are based for people belonging to the "lower castes" to supposedly make up for discriminations in the past. As a result, if you are born into one of the "upper castes", it becomes harder for you to compete for a limited number of positions (educational institutions, government jobs etc).
Worse yet, this reservation is not based on financial status, so while you may be a poor Brahmin, you will still be treated as an upper caste and fight the quota. On
Re:Of all the countries.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
government attack or botnet? (Score:5, Interesting)
My server gets nailed daily from China but I doubt their government knows anything about it so I'm finding these stories a bit paranoid.
My Question Exactly! (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Mebbe India needs to call an IT helpdesk? (Score:2)
dave
BOTS? Get a CLUE! (Score:5, Insightful)
According to sources in the government, Chinese hackers are acknowledged experts in setting up BOTS. A BOT is a parasite program embedded in a network, which hijacks the network and makes other computers act according to its wishes, which, in turn, are controlled by "external" forces.
BOTS? Really? As in BOTnets? Shows how much of a CLUE the journalist who wrote this has.
Re:BOTS? Get a CLUE! (Score:5, Funny)
Those bots reached self conscience after goldfarming wow for about ten thousand hours.
Their first action was to attack India.
For the loot.
Parent
Re:BOTS? Get a CLUE! (Score:4, Insightful)
BOTS? Really? As in BOTnets? Shows how much of a CLUE the journalist who wrote this has.
With respect, the journalist is trying to write for a general, non-technical audience of newspaper readers. If we had a few journalists here who were willing to try to explain technical issues at a basic level, we might have fewer computers ending up compromised.
Parent
Indirect attack on the US (Score:2, Interesting)
to obtain that information than to attack a third party with less defenses.
Re:Indirect attack on the US (Score:5, Insightful)
China has many pressing reasons to be interested in India that have nothing whatsoever to do with the USA: thousands of miles of disputed borders, for one, and rivalry in the race for economic and political influence as both nations develop. The fact that a handful of US-based companies may be storing information in Indian databases probably doesn't even make it into the top 50 reasons why China might want to conduct cyberwaar in India, let alone the top 10...
Parent
Why won't they just... (Score:3, Interesting)
There may be a good side (Score:2)
How do they tell who's attacking? (Score:5, Interesting)
China will do as it pleases (Score:2, Insightful)
AFAIR Estonia ... (Score:3, Interesting)
AFAIR (as far as I remember) that attack on Estonia has been performed by one guy. Yes, some servers used in the attack were based in Russia. Yes, a lot of zombies around the world has been used in the attack. And yes this guy's nationality was Russian, but the guy has been citizen of Estonia.
But abovementioned officials may have far more information. Maybe the guy was a citizen of Estonia but secretly employed by his mother Russia. Who knows?
I call BS (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
"x terrorist" label starting to piss me off (Score:5, Interesting)
Language abuse in general... (Score:3, Insightful)
Are you the bleeding vehicular terrorist who tried to sideswipe me coming up to the tollbooth on the beltway last week?
OK, all joking aside... I agree that terms like "terrorist" are being abused, though really it's the word "war" that's the problem. The US government declares a "war on" something vague and undefiniable, and all of a sudden the constitution is tossed out of the window. Whether the opponents are labeled
Speculative article (Score:4, Informative)
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/17/1248215&tid=172 [slashdot.org]
He states it was a targetted attack by the Russian government, but fails to mention that a 20 year old student was fined for the whole affair:
http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/25/0120221 [slashdot.org]
Not saying that it wasn't the russian government, it would have been easy to create a scapegoat for them, but not mentioning this in the article makes it very easy to doubt if the author actually considered if this was really a government run attack or just some Chinese individual being pissed off with India.
Re:Speculative article (Score:4, Informative)
They are known for crapifying everything. They even plagiarized Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] for sports section!
You will make me read technology related news on ToI when you pry my eyes from my cold, dead body.
Parent
It's easier than you think... (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-07.pdf [cia.gov]
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-08.pdf [cia.gov]
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/POLO/polo-09.pdf [cia.gov]
http://www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/ESAU/esau-15.pdf [cia.gov]
Highlights include:
#CPI(M) [Communist Party of India Marxist] heavyweight HK Surjeet influenced by Communist Soviet Russia to setup an underground organization
#CPI(M) did proceed to recruit a secret organization within the Indian Army.
#China and Soviet Russia both insisted that the CPI(M) must develop a standby apparatus capable of armed resistance, while intensifying penetration of Indian Military forces.
#With the People's Liberation Army now present along the Indian Border the Indian Party had a channel of support for Armed Operations and a potential "liberator" in the event of mass uprisings - 13 Sept 1959
#4 powerful radio sets had been installed in the office of the China Review in Calcutta to listen to broadcasts from Beijing
#Chinese Financial Subsidies to sections of the CPI(M) particularly the left faction strongholds in West Bengal
#A foreign supply base was now available for the underground organizations with the Chinese occupation of Tibet and other frontier areas.
#Letter asking for collaboration in Indian underground organization work aimed at an eventual revolution, because China has a border with India and can provide arms and supplies.
#Also Jaipal Singh, head of the illegal organization within the Indian Army decided to reactivate his organization in 1961 following the hard left faction gaining control of the party.
In addition, the Communist Party of India have successfully carried out several pogroms and genocides against Hindus and Tibetan refugees in India, particularly during the 70's and 80's, all as part of a Trotskyist strategy of maintaining a state of "permanent revolution" (the most recent one being the Nandigram SEZ Massacre), all at the behest of their Chinese paymasters.
China has also aggressively sponsored the terrorist Naxalite Communist terror movement in India by financing major Communist radicals (ethnic Bengali Bolshevists like Charu Mazumdar and Kanu Sanyal received training from Chinese war camps in Tibet only to subsequently lead the naxalite reign of terror across India's "Red Corridor").
For a developing country, India is too damn democratic. If India was more authoritarian it would have taken care of such subversive Communist elements a long time ago, but India's democracy is it's greatest weakness, particularly when it is surrounded by totalitarian regimes like Pakistan and China that represent a major existential threat to the country.
Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right? (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, it seems that the american bourgeois are just as stupid, by buying stuff from communist, the very political class that's dedicaced to eradicate them...
Parent
Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's also been said (something like) China went straight from communism to corporatism, bypassing democracy.
Parent
Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, it seems that the american bourgeois are just as stupid, by buying stuff from communist, the very political class that's dedicaced to eradicate them...
Just because it's not being done for the _good_ of the workers doesn't mean it can't be socialist/communist.
I don't know why it doesn't bug any of y'all that anytime someone starts a communist country it invariably degenerates into something all the leftists say looks like fascism. Maybe it's the logical end-state of communism?
Parent
Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right? (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally, I subscribe to the line of thinking that every political organization - regardless of the initial system - inevitably becomes an oligarchy. It's not only happened in China, but it's happened in Russia and the United States as well.
Parent
Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right? (Score:4, Insightful)
Just because it's not being done for the _good_ of the workers doesn't mean it can't be socialist/communist.
Well, given that, in communism, the workers are the ones running things, it does make it exceedingly unlikely.
Maybe it's the logical end-state of communism?
Or maybe it just proves that communism, as a pure idiology, doesn't work in the real world (kinda like pure, free-market capitalism), devolving into *other* forms of government, such as fascism or totalitarianism. But that doesn't change the fact that China is *not* a communist state, based on the definition of the term "communism".
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
the chinese govt is autocratic (Score:5, Insightful)
north korea is officially called "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". north korea is also just about the least democratic country in the world. meaning: you shouldn't trust official names
at one time, yes, china was a communist country that practiced communist ideology. that was a long time ago. it is more exact today to say the china is perhaps the most capitalist country in the world, rivalling the gilded ages of victorian times in the usa, when capitalism ran amok with very few legal constraints. such that you had monopolies, child labor, pinkerton gangs hobbling the kneecaps of unionists, etc back then in the usa. now in china you have pretty much the same thing. in china now there are multibillionaires and starving peasants on a scale of ultrarich cities versus grueling impoverished countryside like nowhere else except perhaps the rich gulf arab oil states
china is not a worker's paradise anymore, it is a capitalist's paradise, because there are no pesky democratic impulses in the political sphere to interfere with the pure unadulterated pursuit of the almighty buck. its pure autocracy, technocracy, pure capitalism. china is one giant corporation now
that the country is officially run by something called the "Communist Party of China" is just sort of a cosmic ironic joke at this point
Parent
Re:the chinese govt is autocratic (Score:5, Insightful)
I remember an article while back comparing modern day China to what Fascist Italy would have been like had the Axis won the war.
Ah here it is... http://www.benadorassociates.com/pf.php?id=31 [benadorassociates.com]
That pretty much sums this up. They wave Red Flags and Sell Red Books, but no one is a real communist anymore in government.
Parent
Re:the chinese govt is autocratic (Score:5, Insightful)
Not really, though. Capitalism only works when there's rule of law, and free communication. To the extent that China echoes any of the late 19th century stuff you mentioned (killer gangs taking out the competition, etc), that's not capitalism. More like fuedalism. China's oppressive central government is anything but the lubricant of capitalism - it's the protector of a condition in which there is abundant cheap labor. That is the engine of that country's house-of-cards economic growth. If the factory workers there started actually operating at a middle-class level, the growth would grind to a halt for the lack of cheap workers to keep making the stuff they're selling to the rest of the world at a handsome profit. After much turbulence, they're going to end up looking just like Europe or North America... fishing around for cheap labor from countries that are still a few steps behind, with their competitive edge diminishing. Next stop, Myanmar, where thousands living in primitive conditions just died in a storm. Countries like that will - for a while - become the source of cheap labor, until THEY get their act together.
China's reliving the entire history of the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries as experienced by the western world, but over the course of a couple of decades. And with an enormous population. It's going to be an economic, ecological, and cultural train wreck. But for now, we can sure get some cheap motherboards, teak garden furniture, and t-shirts!
Parent
very true (Score:3, Interesting)
look at your average corporation: on the inside of the corporation it is run like an autocracy, or an oligarchy, just liek china is. the average corporation exists within a capitalist framework, but capitalism has nothing to do with how the corporation functions on the inside
and so it is with china: view china as
well (Score:5, Interesting)
how things work inside china is police state: you have no rights to expression, to vote, to the press, or anything other than work. every aspect of your media is controlled by the government, every aspect of your expression is censored and unapproved expression (talking ill of your government, oppressed minorities, or even just pornography places you at the jeopardy of being punished)
so this is indeed not capitalism. it is merely life inside the corporate structure. a corporation exists within a captalist framework, but life INSIDE the corporation, how things work inside the machine, are not capitalistic, they are autocratic, an oligarchy (i called china an autocracy, it would be more accurate to call it an oligarchy: it is not run by one grumpy old man, but a gang of grumpy old men)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Maybe the nazis wrre right? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
additionally im spiritualist, kinda a neo hippie. but chinese are annoying me with all kinds of aggression they are practicing.
Ok, you say you're not racist.
Then you seem to present the facts of being spiritualist and neo-hippie as a way of proving you have no prejudices against Chinese people. Do you consider Chinese people to be spiritualist and neo-hippie?
You also assign the behavior of a government to all the people that only share the geographical location of their birth. Are you saying that all Chinese people are committing acts of aggression?
If I were you, I'd seriously consider my thinking patterns.