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Dealing With an IT Bully

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Mon Apr 14, 2008 04:17 PM
from the griefers-are-everywhere dept.
jammag writes "'"You are an idiot." That was how I was greeted on an already gloomy, rainy Monday morning.' Eric Spiegel offer his a first-hand account of dealing with a tech world geek-gone-bad and presents some ideas for coping. 'These bullies are quick to aggressively divert blame for any problem back to someone else, because they couldn't possibly be responsible. Some are passive aggressive, where they will subtly lay blame behind your back. Others enjoy getting in your face and being as confrontational as possible.'" What experiences have others had that defied all logic and possibly made you want to start looking for rifles and bell towers?
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  • Slashdot ID... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ccguy (1116865) * on Monday April 14 2008, @04:19PM (#23069644) Homepage

    Second, you may be able to win a bully's respect by showing off your knowledge on a tough IT topic.
    Dude, that greeting line is typical for a slashdot user whose user ID is between 10,000 and 50,000 (ask any decent HR department if you don't believe me).

    Had you mentioned it, you would have made a friend forever (at the risk of becoming someone's best and only friend, though).

    BTW: "You are an idiot." may sound like an insult, but from time to time it's just an accurate diagnosis :-)
    • by Venture37 (654305) on Monday April 14 2008, @04:22PM (#23069700) Homepage

      BTW: "You are an idiot." may sound like an insult, but from time to time it's just an accurate diagnosis :-)
      Totally, the world is obsessed by the war on terror, when is the war on stupidity going to start?
      • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 14 2008, @04:25PM (#23069752)
        A War on Stupidity will be as effective as the War on Drugs. You can't combat something that grows naturally.
          • Re:Slashdot ID... (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Some_Llama (763766) on Monday April 14 2008, @06:27PM (#23071340) Homepage Journal
            "Because, only the stupid would use the drugs, and hopefully remove themselves from the gene pool."

            I hate to break it to you, but EVERY human is a drug user... see our brains are basically a chemical/electrical processing unit, everything you do is motivated and controlled by brain chemistry, even if you have never done a "drug" (even smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol or coffee) you still have these chemicals racing around, influencing your decisions and regulating your body.

            When you are hungry it's because of a chemical that regulates energy, when you feel happy it is because of a chemical that induces these feelings, same with sex, exercise, basically everything, even fear.

            To feel superior because you don't use an outside chemical to trick the brain into making yourself feel a different way is quite elitist, why is that any better than running on a treadmill for 30 minutes to get runner's high? Or wanting to have sex because it makes you feel good? Or eating ice cream?

            All of these actions are ultimately motivated by the pleasure/high/"emotion" you have learned as a trained response to those actions. In fact without these pleasure inducing chemicals we would be in a constant state of pain all the time...

            So we are all addicted to these chemicals.. we are all motivated by the need to placate the brain's desire for these chemicals.

            • Re:Slashdot ID... (Score:5, Insightful)

              by syousef (465911) on Monday April 14 2008, @11:49PM (#23073832) Journal
              Sounds to me like you're trying to justify drug (ab)use.

              The difference is that unless you're literally mentally ill, those natural chemicals aren't likely to ruin your life. Now I think people should be permitted to do whatever they like so long as it doesn't affect others - I'm not in favour of laws that try to prevent stupidity or self harm. However when's the last time you knew a drug addict that wouldn't steal, like, cheat or sell their body or their grandmother for the next hit? It doesn't just affect them. Of course stuffing them in prison where they learn how to commit new crimes is asinine, so basically I don't agree with either side when it comes to the "war on drugs". Wether it's the jailor or government trying to jail the addict or the pusher trying to sell them their next hit, it's all about control and manipulation of weak minded fools for profit.
      • by illumnatLA (820383) on Monday April 14 2008, @08:51PM (#23072536) Homepage

        Totally, the world is obsessed by the war on terror, when is the war on stupidity going to start?
        The war on stupidity is over... Stupidity won.
    • by jefftp (35835) on Monday April 14 2008, @05:06PM (#23070404)
      I do not typically use "You are an idiot" as a greeting. I prefer to use that phrase as a goodbye.
      • by tompaulco (629533) on Monday April 14 2008, @06:03PM (#23071080) Homepage Journal
        I like when people use the written form to tell me "Your an idiot". It opens all kinds of doors for me to creatively respond.
      • by Lumpy (12016) on Monday April 14 2008, @08:23PM (#23072320) Homepage
        Best solution for the "your an idiot" wielding jerk.

        Go to any open terminal and try to log in as him 4 times. do this throughout the day randomly. you'll keep locking out his account and giving him utter hell trying to get anything done.

        I'm the master Domain admin so I'll simply reduce privileges, accidently set the expire on the account to 15 minutes before lunch or a meeting, or I'll simply slightly unplug their cube's patch cable in the network closet on that floor. But if you dont have admin rights to the domain, simply trying to log in as them a few times will lock it nice and easy. also unplugging their keyboard slightly when you walk by their empty cube is a great thing to do as well.

        the best thing I have EVER seen done was that someone packing taped a slice of bologna under his chair. in 3 days he stunk to high hell and could not find the source of the smell.

        Dont get mad, get even. Nothing is sweeter than annoying them silently.
        • by Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) on Monday April 14 2008, @09:15PM (#23072716) Journal
          My favorite: a couple co-workers wrote a dos background program that prevented a user from typing the word "go". Normally that wouldn't be a problem, but the targeted coworker had written a complex batch script that compiled the source and loaded it on his dev machine named -- go.bat. It was pretty funny to watch. The g key works, the o key works but typing g then o was impossible. they also wrote a program that caused icons to flee from the mouse. That was just as fun, but easier to figure out the cause.
    • Re:Slashdot ID... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by vertinox (846076) on Monday April 14 2008, @05:21PM (#23070596)
      BTW: "You are an idiot." may sound like an insult, but from time to time it's just an accurate diagnosis :-)

      True, but in a work place environment its usually best to be more tactful. Even if you're CEO of the company yelling at the janitor, dressing someone down is generally bad for moral and in cases where you are the janitor calling the CEO the idiot, you'll loose your job.

      If the IT person calls you an idiot, I'd bring it up with his supervisor as bad interpersonal skills.

      If he had felt he was dealing with an idiot the best approach would be to say "The issue is too complex for a short explanation, do you have about an hour to spare or do you need to get back up and running ASAP?"
      • You, sir, are an idiot.

        Can't let the people down, now can we. ;)


        moron... obviously, you are just a shill for [republicans|democrats], completely dedicated to [closed source|open source] software to the exclusion of all facts, maniacally intolerant because of your blind devotion to [environmentalism|christianity], unable to see that your ridiculous faith in [capitalism|socialism] is the ruin of all humanity, therefor making you a [jack booted fascist nazi|klan member|islamofascist traitor].
  • by Tweekster (949766) on Monday April 14 2008, @04:23PM (#23069704)
    Seriously, most people are so afraid of being confronted directly, just flat out say they are wrong and they are attempting to divert the blame and to get out of my face.

    Keep eye contact but just say what everyone already knows but are too afraid.

    Society really has taught us to be wimps in that aspect lately, everyone is frightened of any sort of confrontation. Pick your battles but honestly call him a duck, or more likely an idiot.
    • by moderatorrater (1095745) on Monday April 14 2008, @04:33PM (#23069890)
      You should read the article. The guy that he's referring to was very abusive, refused to actually have dialog, and made the insults personal at every juncture. He was also the CTO, which means that I would get the fuck out of that company as soon as I could. C-level execs should be a pretty good barometer of the management at all levels, since they'll promote people like them and were chosen and kept on for a reason. The only way to deal with certains kinds of assholes with power is to not deal with them.

      And that's what the author ended up doing. Personalities like that are a serious hindrance. I've seen my share of people who divert blame or refuse to admit they're wrong, and usually it's because they receive more blame than they deserve, and usually someone else is in the wrong (and that person is in a position to never have to be wrong). A lot of people in IT are there because they're extremely talented and are right much more often than they're wrong. It creates a lot of potential for misunderstandings.

      I think there's also a fundamental difference between a bully who's a normal coworker and a bully who's above you in the chain of command. There's a big difference between the stress of dealing with and unfriendly person of equal power and the stress of dealing with an unfriendly person who has a lot of power over your company, and management can forget that. I had a boss like that and it was sometimes hard to work with him because he didn't realize that insults weren't appropriate from someone in his position.
      • I think they're both to blame, frankly. On the one hand you have the CTO who is just pushing his crap product out the door on Friday and scoffing at the idea of training his support people.

        And then you have the support guy who is passive aggressively telling his staff to badger the developer staff (in effect, throwing off his frustration with the CTO on them) and then failing to hash out the issue with his boss on Monday. It's his ass on the line! He needs to either stand up to his boss, he needs to go over his boss to his bosses boss and get him to assert some control over the CTO, or he needs to quit.

        It's certainly doing his career prospects no good, and "It's not my fault" only goes so far for both of them.
    • by TheMCP (121589) on Monday April 14 2008, @05:50PM (#23070930) Homepage
      Having been in similar positions, I have unfortunately had to develop strategies for dealing with such situations.

      1) If you must have a meeting with someone you know acts like that and talks like that, always bring witnesses. That way there will be someone to testify "oh my god, we made a simple request and he started swearing like a sailor!" to HR later, and he won't be able to tell lies about what you said. An audio recorder works too, but you can get in trouble if you don't make it clear that you have it and are using it, and if you do make it clear they usually won't meet with you and will try to make you look like the unreasonable one. Most people will ignore a coworker you brought along without explanation, and if they do ask for an explanation, you can just say "oh, I thought they might be involved later so I want them to hear the details."

      2) Try to avoid phone calls with the person. If they call you, tell them you're busy and will get back to them right away, and then send them email. (If you have no better excuse, tell them you really have to go to the bathroom. Anything to get them off the phone.) If you have a phone call, even if it seems cordial, you never know what they might claim you said after the fact. If you must have a call with them, try to make it a conference call so you can have a witness, or invite someone into your office and put the call on speaker so the witness can hear it.

      3) If you are having a phone call or meeting with them, if they become belligerent, swear at you, or use inappropriately insulting or hostile language, immediately tell them you will be pleased to communicate with them again in the future when they feel more able to control themselves, and then immediately depart or hang up without further comment. Take any witnesses with you.

      4) After any unavoidable phone calls, immediately email them a summary of your understanding of the call. That way if they want to make claims about the call later, you can produce the email and say "I sent you call notes to prevent misunderstandings, and you didn't disagree with the notes, so if you failed to understand, that's not my problem."

      5) Whenever possible, transact communications with the problem person by email. If they send you any emails in which they are hostile or directly and unequivocally insult you, immediately forward those emails to the person's boss and to HR with a request to know if this is the sort of language or remark that the company feels is appropriate business communication, and state clearly that it is difficult to do your job when reasonable requests are met with hostility and refusal to provide answers. If they actually physically threaten you in email, print it out and walk it directly to HR and insist that you want the police to be called.

      6) Never delete any email except spam. You might need it later.

      7) Never let any direct accusations about your competence that the person makes to your manager or to others pass unaddressed. Use courteous (no swearing) but blunt language to make clear that the accusation is completely false, provide copies of emails and other backup evidence as necessary, and be very clear that you are upset and insulted.

      Unfortunately, people in the computer industry frequently have to deal with hostile users and occasionally hostile incompetent techs. (The competent ones rarely have anything to be hostile about.) I've had to deal with many. By remaining calm, restricting communications to email or channels where there are witnesses, and refusing to accept any BS, I've been able to get most of them terminated, and in the remaining cases I, like the author, felt it was best to move on because obviously the company was run by a pack of idiots.
  • by Skyshadow (508) * on Monday April 14 2008, @04:23PM (#23069708) Homepage
    Read the article again from the understanding that the author is either a VP at this organization or at least a peer to VPs, not just some low-level worker getting beat on by upper management. Then notice:

    1. The support team that the author manages didn't get trained on the new version before it went into production.
    2. They didn't know how to support it or even talk properly about the issues.
    3. They didn't follow up properly in documenting the case.
    4. They woke up the VP of software development at 3 AM without having good data for him.

    As the manager of the support team, then, the VP-level person presumedly in charge of making sure his team is properly trained in both the company's product and the troubleshooting processes, the author didn't deserve to get yelled at... why again? I mean, sure, more diplomatic language is probably called for, but at the same time the implication I get from the article is that the author fucked up in a fairly serious way and now is mad that the VP in question wasn't polite enough about it.

    Then there's the other stuff: Complaining about use of the word "fuck"? Trying to start a conversation about Battlestar? What the hell? You're supposed to be an upper-level guy at this company, for pity's sake! You really expect the CIO to waste his/her time getting you to play nice?

    I guess where I'm going here is that I'm having a hard time seeing this as 'IT bullying'. Rather, my reaction is that the author doesn't have any place in management and should move back to a position that better suits his tendancies -- a job were units of work are handed to him and he does them versus a position that requires initiative or, God forbid, a little bit of toughness.

    • I mean, isn't that just ASKING for problems?

      I'd have preferred early Monday morning so EVERYONE would be awake and on-the-job if/when problems arose.
    • Maybe you missed the second page... I'll quote the first paragraph for you:

      Granted, there was much pressure from top management to get this release out by Friday and thus documentation and any internal training were pushed aside. That being said, it turned out a major bug was in the new release and the on-call support engineer had run a baseline test, but couldnâ(TM)t put the results in context with the new reality introduced by this new bug. His only recourse was to escalate, and do it quickly.

      So:

      • Senior management was more interested in making the release date than getting documentation in place beforehand.
      • The support team didn't have the knowledge to document the problem properly.
      • Our "VP" (Eric - the author of the article) used a previously agreed upon procedure, they escalated to the developers by first notifying their manager (Eric) who then tried to notify the development manager (Dirk).

      From the details given, I'd like to know what you expected Eric to do differently. Management pressed for the release, even though they knew the support staff wasn't ready. When an issue happened, the support staff tried to follow process to document the issue, couldn't, and followed a proper escalation process.

      • by Skyshadow (508) * on Monday April 14 2008, @04:47PM (#23070116) Homepage
        You're still reading this like he's some low-level guy. He's not -- he's a direct report of the CIO and a peer of the company VPs. That makes him 'upper management' in my book. At that level, you're responsible for your area even if the things you need to do are hard to accomplish.

        If a new release is coming, it's his job to find a way to get his staff trained to support it and to make the others in management understand the necessity for staff training ahead of the release.

        The release didn't just happen out of the blue. His staff didn't get trained because he didn't make it happen. The same goes for his staff being unable to follow the support procedures -- regardless of the reasons, it's ultimately his job to make sure his organization's procedures work.

        • From the article, I can't make that judgement. Perhaps he had pushed to make sure training and documentation were in place before the release went live. I'm working from the information in the article, and trying not to assume anything. All we have is that senior management pushed for the release date, so that was above Eric's call. We don't know much he did or did not push to hold back the release. Secondly he, and his staff did follow proper support procedures. Its right there that they can go directly to the engineers for a major issue if the managers are notified, which they were.
          • by Otter (3800) on Monday April 14 2008, @05:04PM (#23070372) Journal
            Secondly he, and his staff did follow proper support procedures. Its right there that they can go directly to the engineers for a major issue if the managers are notified, which they were.

            My impression is that the procedure assumed a good faith by the support people to clear the problem, and that Eric, instead of digging in his heels on the deployment and lack of training or coming up with an alternative training plan, decided to play it as "OK, if you're not gonna let us train, then there's nothing we can do but take everything directly to you."

        • by ardent99 (1087547) on Monday April 14 2008, @05:36PM (#23070782)
          It's tempting to think that when something goes wrong it's the victim's fault for letting it happen. But you can't always resist the boss (or the corporate culture) when he is telling you to do something that isn't ideal. That's just life. You have to deal with it.

          The author was dealt a losing hand, and he had no choice but to play it when he was told to support software before the organization was ready. Upper management made the decision to push the software out, and the consequences should have been dealt with at the level the decision was made. In this case it seems like the author's boss (the CIO) or higher made that call, and he should not have been so glib about dismissing the problems that resulted. That's someone who isn't taking responsibility for his own decisions.

          But it was completely wrong for Dirk, the VP of Software, to complain that he and his staff were called over the weekend. That is what the "engineer on call", as the article refers to him, is there for; he might be called in an emergency, even at inconvenient times. And Dirk must have been aware that the company was releasing new software, so it is part of his job to be ready for problems. By ignoring the call to him because he was annoyed, Dirk was putting the company at risk. That's not the right guy to have at the helm of an important department.

          If Dirk wanted to get angry at someone he should have gotten angry at the CIO, who was responsible for the situation. It sounds to me like he was afraid to get angry at his boss, or knew it would be fruitless (given the CIO's later dismissal of the situation that would have been accurate), so he took out his anger on someone who he could beat up on without consequences, a peer. That is the mark of a real asshole.

          The author and his support department may have been incompetent, or may not have been, but this situation doesn't spread any light on that. It does however show that both his boss and the VP of Software were irresponsible. This whole arrangement of people was dysfunctional.

    • by moderatorrater (1095745) on Monday April 14 2008, @04:38PM (#23069954)

      The support team that the author manages didn't get trained on the new version before it went into production.
      The author had requested it, but the release was pushed too fast for non-technical reasons.

      They didn't know how to support it or even talk properly about the issues.
      It was a major bug that needed to be escalated immediately. He followed procedure and the other guy didn't.

      They didn't follow up properly in documenting the case.
      Again, major error. When there's a big enough error on a production server, sometimes you don't document the problem. Sometimes you have to get up at 11 am and figure out why 30 leads are getting created every second by the same ip address and it's bringing down the server. As a tech support engineer (which I'm not, but assuming I am), at this point I can do one of two things: I can keep digging and documenting, or I can escalate. The author didn't tell us what the issue is, but he did say it was major.

      They woke up the VP of software development at 3 AM without having good data for him.
      They called, he never answered.

      I could continue, but I've got to ask: were you reading the same article I was? It's possible that the information that was given was wrong and biased, but there wasn't anything in the article that the author did blatantly wrong.
      • by Skyshadow (508) * on Monday April 14 2008, @04:54PM (#23070210) Homepage

        I could continue, but I've got to ask: were you reading the same article I was? It's possible that the information that was given was wrong and biased, but there wasn't anything in the article that the author did blatantly wrong.
        We read the same article, but from different perspectives.

        Again, remember: We're talking VP-level here, a guy who reports directly to the CIO. At that level, your job is to get out there and accomplish your responsibilities, not to give excuses.

        His actions do not sync with that level of responsibility. A guy at his level should have either found a way to get the basic training accomplished or gotten the release held up -- if the others in management don't understand the importance of getting support caught up, it's his job to make them understand.

        This might sound unreasonable if you're used to thinking from a low- or mid-level management position, but at that level its basic to your job.

  • by im_thatoneguy (819432) on Monday April 14 2008, @04:23PM (#23069720)
    Me: My Cable is Out.
    Broadstripe: Sure enough it looks like there are several places in Seattle experiencing some outages. Crews are out. Is there anything else I can help you with.
    Me: Yes. My Cable is out and I'm pretty sure that it's mostly unrelated to those outages. It's been out for a month. It was out yesterday. It was out the week before that. A cable guy came out to turn on my neighbor's cable... and the same day when I got home from work my internet was down. ... Pause as I assume this is the point where I'll get a scheduled service call...

    Broadstripe: If the cable is out across parts of Seattle how can you conclude that your problem is unrelated.
    Me: Because I assume that most of Seattle hasn't been without cable for a MONTH.
    Broadstripe: We can send someone out between 9am and 6pm on Monday.

    (Yeah sure I'll just take a day off from work to wait for the cable guy. Thanks but no thanks.)

  • I like to settle these things professionally...by challenging them to a fist fight. I even let them choose the fighting ground.
  • Are you an idiot? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ivanmarsh (634711) on Monday April 14 2008, @04:30PM (#23069836)
    I don't feel the need to take responsibility for having to dig chocolate cake out of a DVD ROM Drive... but was asked to.

    I don't feel the need to take the responsibility for being asked to diagnose a machine that won't boot up that smells UNMISTAKEABLY like cat urine... but was asked to.

    I don't feel the need to explain why I deleted your iTunes directory off of my server that was taking up 30gigs of storage space... but was asked to.

    I'll be the first to tell you that about 80% of the people that work IT these days have no business doing the job, but there's good reason that even some of the good ones are more than a bit on edge from time to time.

    (What is it, bash IT day?)
      • by ivanmarsh (634711) on Monday April 14 2008, @06:00PM (#23071054)
        Because it's my company's storage space and "you" signed a document when "you" got hired outlining, in detail, the acceptable use policy.

        The real question is why didn't I have "you" summarily terminated as well.
  • by spirit_fingers (777604) on Monday April 14 2008, @04:33PM (#23069896)
    As any IT person who supports users directly will tell you, idiots are EVERYWHERE. That said, any IT support person that says that to a user's face would be shitcanned immediately, if s/he were in my IT department. That sort of behavior is inexcusable. IT people need to realize two things: A. in-house IT departments are not typically profit centers, and that makes you disposable. You're there as a problem solver, hand-holder and wet nurse. You're not there to judge, and if you don't like it there are plenty of other IT candidates and outsourcing firms out there who could do your job as well or better; and B. grow up. You're not in high school any more. Stop talking smack about hapless users. Everyone is an idiot about something--even you. And you probably would be a total idiot if you had to do their job.
    • A. in-house IT departments are not typically profit centers, and that makes you disposable.

      It's easy to say that until they aren't around, at which point you have a company full of salespeople or whatever who can't get anything done because they have no clue how to use their own computers. While I agree that IT isn't the core focus of most businesses, it is absolutely integral to making any business function. Without IT most businesses would not exist, and knowledgable, adaptable IT staff can mean the difference between a two minute database or email server screwup, and having everything effectively shut down for five hours, so please, reconsider your statement.

      And you probably would be a total idiot if you had to do their job.

      See, I don't think so. Not that I personally would know how to do any arbitrary person's job offhand, of course. But I think the distinction is that most hapless users don't even try, and display little, if any, ability to adjust or extrapolate. Sit the average office yob in front of an application they've never seen before, and their first instinct will be to call for help and complain that they aren't "a computer guy" -- even though they've seen many applications that are very much like it. (Click the menus at the top, guys, just like every other program you've ever seen...)

      While I might not be able to do Joe Punchclock's job, I'd at least be able to take a reasonably good stab at it -- if I'd done similar jobs before. That is what distinguishes normal people from the total idiots.
      Also, your comment is a bit strange to me, since from my point of view, a user who constantly screws up their computer isn't doing his or her job in the first place. While the job might not be directly computer-related, computers are part of the workplace today and aren't going away. Not knowing how to use a computer competently is like not knowing how to use a copy machine -- and bear in mind, no one is asking the user to know how to fix either one, or how they work at a fundamental level. Just use them without breaking things or bothering other people because you can't figure it out.

      All that said, yes, of course it's inappropriate to call someone an idiot to their face, even if they deserve it. But management could help here, too, by not hiring people who lack the basic skills to work in a modern office.
  • The author did right to leave. He wasn't going to get anywhere as long as the CIO and the development management weren't going to cooperate. However, after this fiasco, I would've considered writing up a new policy and trying to get it through the CIO... one that says, "No training or documentation? No upgrade." There is no other way to deal with this situation, unless you want to escalate above the CIO... but if you do that, you need to have documentation in order to show that the other people and those you skipped around are incompetents and are the cause of the problem. Even if you do have all of your ducks in order, be ready to look for a new job as well.

    I've been lucky enough to not have had these kinds of situations... but then again, I've also been on-call when my software upgrades have gone in AND had a good working relationship with the operations staff. When the few problems happened, they were able to call and get a quick and friendly resolution to the problem without all the name-calling. Almost like we had a system in place........

  • by mooingyak (720677) on Monday April 14 2008, @04:40PM (#23069992)
    You deal with different people in different ways (obviously). It's not just a matter of what kind of aggression level they have, it's also (if anything, moreso) a matter of where they stand in relation to you in that company.

    You've got a few main categories:
    1. Peers
    2. Someone who works for you
    3. Someone who works for one of your peers
    4. Your boss
    5. People your boss reports to
    6. People who are senior to you but you don't actually work for (eg, Client Services Manager or some such)

    In all cases though, there are a few guidelines. First, don't ever let the tone and content get condescending. Don't fight fire with fire, simply refuse to even discuss the issue unless they're willing to treat you with respect. This holds true for just about any of the relationships. Obviously you'll have cases where if you don't get a paycheck your kids don't eat, and then you take all kinds of shit if you have to, but that aside, don't let anyone abuse you, even if they own the company.

    Second, be good at what you do. When people frequently need to come to you for help, they tend to be much more forgiving when things are your fault.

    That's about all I got right now.
  • idiot (Score:5, Insightful)

    by trb (8509) on Monday April 14 2008, @04:41PM (#23070018)
    When person A calls person B an idiot, it doesn't indicate that person B is an idiot. It does indicate that person A berates people.
  • by bockelboy (824282) on Monday April 14 2008, @04:49PM (#23070160)
    One of the best things my boss has taught me to do out of college is to listen to people. Sometimes a person gets whiney or edgy (and if I got a call at 3am, I'd be bitchy too); listen to them, filter out the abusive parts, and find the parts which you need to listen to.

    Finally, if there's anything which needs to be addressed, let them throw their tantrum, and bring it up again later on.

    Don't know about this case, but it works 90% of the time for me.
  • I wonder, though... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by lysse (516445) on Monday April 14 2008, @04:57PM (#23070264)
    My brother-in-law recently had to change jobs as a result of workplace bullying himself, and the common thread is that the bully themselves might be surmountable, but if the employer consistently enables the bully it makes the situation impossible to deal with. For him too, walking was the only feasible option. So from that perspective, I thought the article rang true. And sadly, sometimes it's hard to make the distinction between someone whose social issues are a result of having no interpersonal skills and someone who's simply antisocial [wikipedia.org].

    However, I took a look at one of Mr Spiegel's other articles (this one [earthweb.com]), which made me wonder whether he might have been reaping what he sowed. That article ends with the line "Now I wonder if Susan will come back to my team? Would you?" - and having read it, my answer would have to be "Not a chance in hell!". Admittedly, I'm biased - a night-owl myself, I'm habitually hours, rather than minutes, late for work - and yes, the expectations of a public-facing role are of necessity a little different. But someone who is unprepared to make small compromises to a rule they believe to be bad anyway in order to keep an exceptional team member is someone whose own priorities could use some work... and the fact that there were other parts of the company in which Susan's timekeeping wasn't an issue suggests that his insistence upon the rules was frankly pointless, soul-sucking pettifoggery.

    (If you want to argue about that, go for it. I don't care, and I won't be responding - I simply don't understand people who put arbitrary rules above individual differences, I never will, and I don't even want to.)
  • I'm a developer (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 14 2008, @04:58PM (#23070280)
    If I talked to our support team the day that Dirk is alleged to have done, I would be fired and would completely deserve it.

    As a developer, it is my responsibility that the software works; and if the support team escalates to me it is my responsibility to take charge and resolve the problem for the customer. Afterwards, we and the support team can hold a post-mortem and go through the "if you see something like this next time, here's what you can do to resolve it for the customer; or failing that what you can do to prepare things for me when you escalate."

    It is also my responsibility to see to it that the support team is trained:
      (1) on what they can resolve in my product without escalation
      (2) on how to prepare things for me when escalating
      (3) on how to know the difference between a (1) and a (2) situation.

    I, personally, would rather be called in unnecessarily in a (1) situation than to deal with the consequences of the support team failing to escalate when they should have (and thus making the situation worse).

    I do NOT want the support team to be afraid of escalation. If they don't know what to do, that is a matter of ignorance; and as such is easily curable once identified.

    Stupidity, on the other hand, is expecting the support team to guess at what to do because they've been too intimidated by having developers call them names. And that stupidity is on the part of the developers, not the support team.

    In case it isn't obvious, I find Dirk's behavior, if accurately reported (we are only hearing one side), to be reprehensible.
  • Sounds familiar... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rickb928 (945187) on Monday April 14 2008, @05:07PM (#23070410) Homepage
    ...like the client I had for five years. They finally got me out of there, despite my boss assuring me he had my back, no problem keeping the contract, blahblahblah. My first meeting with the incoming brand-newly-created CIO started off with him explaining that he would be replaciong me with his own staff as soon as humanely possible. It took him 5 months. His second in command was a true class act, once agreeing to a plan, changing his mind, forcing a completely untested and foreign solution. All in one two-hour meeting. Only I objected, and he left it that I should not be surprised, after all my ideas had all failed. This was a *new* project. I hadn't screwed this one up, as it hadn't gotten past the design stage before he dismembered it...

    My only solace; I heard 3 years later that he and the CIO were *escorted* from the building by Security. Probably they got caught taking kickbacks from vendors. That's what happened at their last place, where they were allowed to go quietly in the night rather than 'disgrace' a government agency.

    The article got it right. Sometimes you gotta just go. He was up against a dev team manager that was an asshat, a CIO that tolerated that style, and nowhere to turn for sanity. I suspect the dev team was spectacularly unproductive there...

  • by beadfulthings (975812) on Monday April 14 2008, @05:24PM (#23070626) Journal

    About ten years ago on my second day at a particular job, I met the man who had just been recruited to serve on the same team--we were to be close colleagues. My only recollection of what I was doing is that I was sitting in the back room fooling around with servers--configuring them. After the briefest of introductions, he seated himself in a chair next to me, watched for a few minutes, and proceeded to roll his chair over my feet to get to the box I was working on.

    It was the first of innumerable tooth-gnashingly annoying incidents. He had no concept of even the most rudimentary good manners (table manners and the like), no conversational skills at all, no concept of the "person-hood" of other people, whether they were fellow team members, superiors in the company, people of lesser position (such as cleaners, delivery people), or even women he hoped to date. It's as though the rest of the world was two-dimensional to him. In his more communicative moments, he wondered why people, and especially women, disliked him. The rest of the time he kept up a continuously running monologue, doing all within his power to prevent anyone else from voicing a thought or opinion. With all that, he was technically one of the most brilliant engineers I'd ever encountered.

    It's good to be around people whose skills are better than yours--but only if you can learn something from them. That was impossible in his case. I was in the midst of a long and fairly prosperous career, and I concluded that he was a sociopath and worked my way into a transfer. I think at some level I thought he might open fire on us all some morning and turn our comfortable little server room into a bloodbath. The transfer improved my working life enormously. Another engineer, a much younger man, simply disappeared into another job and life.

    I've come to realize that he was probably suffering from Asperger's [wikipedia.org] or some form of high-functioning autism. These conditions were not as well known then as they are now. For his sake, I hope someone encourages him to seek treatment or therapy. He's got a very lonely old age to look forward to.

  • Frankly, when I see a ticket come into the helpdesk system (which I used to run before I started doing interesting things) which says, "My email is broken" and all tickets are submitted to our helpdesk via email, then yes - the user IS an idiot.

    When we get tickets that say, "There are arrows in the porter" when the person (a manager, no less!) is trying to say "There are errors in portal" then yes, the user IS an idiot.

    Rather than complaining that overworked and beleaguered helpdesk folks are rude, why don't you try not being a fucking moron for once?
  • by MythoBeast (54294) on Monday April 14 2008, @05:48PM (#23070920) Homepage Journal
    After reading through the article, I really have to say that this is probably a case of the support VP not holding his ground against a mean and aggressive development VP. The CIO is also quite a bit to blame for not mediating the dispute very well, but that's support you can't rely on especially if the other VP and the CIO play golf together.

    When you see yourself heading into this kind of position, the very first thing you have to do is go into Cover Your Ass mode. If you see something going into distribution that your people aren't trained for, spell out the liabilities to your CIO. If the development team just plain doesn't have time to actually tell you how things are going to work, then mention it to the CIO, see previous statements. You can't tell me that this was completely unforseen.

    Don't be pushy. You don't have to actually get the CIO to change things. Executives are notorious for failing to accept that their cost-cutting measures might have consequences. But when things go bad and everyone is running around trying to decide who to blame, calling attention to the CYA emails is the best way to say "Don't even think about trying to blame this on me if you don't want me to whip out a can of I told you so."

    People make mistakes. In a highly aggressive environment, people try to blame their mistakes on others. This has nothing to do with IT bullying, it has more to do with geeks trying to play nice with sharks and insisting that they shouldn't have gotten bitten.
  • by sammy baby (14909) on Monday April 14 2008, @07:24PM (#23071836) Journal
    Occasionally, you get the backing you need to appropriately deal with a bully. This is a story about just such a situation.

    A few years ago I was doing systems administration for a small group which provided ISP services for a business which happened to work in the same building as we did. They had their own IT crew and support guys, and were generally nice guys. We kept out of each others' way.

    One day we got a phone call from a network administrator at another company. He said that someone using an IP address in our block was attempting to attack one of his systems, repeatedly and and unsuccessfully trying to open an FTP connection to one of their web servers. Working together, we were able to verify that the "attack" was coming from the nice guys downstairs.

    That's where it got a little weird. The other admin demanded the identity of the person at the workstation who was doing the attacking. We blinked - was that the kind of information we could just give out? I didn't think that it was - or at least, that it should be, and that until we'd had the chance to make a good-faith effort to resolve the situation ourselves, we weren't going to go handing someone's name to someone else. So we declined. The conversation got a bit tense, and I asked him to hold on while I contacted my manager.

    His response was even-handed: requests to divulge the personal information of clients would be handled by our legal department. I was the one who got to deliver the message, and so when the other admin bloviated that they were following a policy and would hate to involve their lawyers, I took some relish in replying that we were following a policy too, and offering to forward him our legal department's contact information.

    In the end, it turned out that the "attacker" was actually a consultant being paid by the company he was "attacking." They'd given him bad login information, and his software was being a bit too aggressive in retrying connections. So, much ado about nothing.
  • My Own Experience (Score:5, Interesting)

    by happyslayer (750738) <david@isisltd.com> on Monday April 14 2008, @10:02PM (#23073154)

    I had an experience in one of my jobs, and it was with a co-worker/subordinate:

    So here it was, me as the head of the IT department for a Navy command, and the only military officer in the shop; everyone else was a civilian contractor.

    After a couple of years, I was feeling very comfortable: Things were getting done, 90% of the users were happy, and I could answer most questions and problems within 30 minutes of the subject coming up, if not right away.

    Then things started going down hill. People were getting frustrated, required maintenance wasn't being done, and the head contractor had screwed up and corrupted the entire mail system (had to spend a whole weekend getting it back.)

    As time went on, things got worse, and I could never figure out how or why. I started getting acid reflux, couldn't sleep, and was wondering why it all seemed to go to hell.

    It all came to a head when, after a particularly thorough chewing out by an unhappy user, one of the techs came and told me that the managing contractor (she of the corrupt email) had been going around behind my back telling everyone how screwed up I was and how everything was going to hell because I didn't know my ass from a hole in the ground.

    (To be fair, she was under a lot of pressure; the company she was working for was planning on firing/"downsizing" to save money, and our 5 person shop was seen as a potential target. Unfortunately, she decided to push her own importance by cutting down me. Definitely passive-aggressive.)

    Anyways, after checking out the sordid tale (just to make sure what I was being told was true), I went home, had a beer, talked to my wife, and then called my boss: Since you can fire the contractor, fire me. I explained that this conflict was hurting the command, and

    • a) She (the managing contractor) was right and I didn't deserve to run the IT department, or
    • b) She was wrong, and I didn't deserve to be treated this way.

    Either way, I wasn't going to take this crap any more. (And yes, I did try to talk to the higher-ups about this, but all they could do was shrug and say "Sorry, we can't get rid of her.")

    Boy, within 30 seconds of getting to work the next morning, everyone had heard about it! At least to me, most people were supportive, and said, "About time!" By mid-morning, the manager in question asked to talk to me privately, and started crying about humiliating this was. She also mentioned that she could get fired if this got back to corporate. All I said was that I couldn't help it; we couldn't seem to work together, and gave my reasons above.

    Well, to make a long story short (I know...too late), the Wing commander called me in, chewed me out for not working out this problem myself (and probably rightfully so...), and then said to get my a$$ back to the job because no one else can do it. I said, "Aye-aye, sir!" and went back to work.

    Things got better in the shop for a good while; I volunteered for a 6-month duty during the war, and when I got back, it didn't matter because I was getting out very soon.

    Moral of the story: I don't know--you tell me if it makes any sense.

    • by Jeppe Salvesen (101622) on Monday April 14 2008, @04:41PM (#23070008)
      Whether you are an idiot or not, it is wise to take note that calling other people "idiot" is not a productive thing to do. Just avoid trusting an idiot to do things that requires brains, and you'll be better off.
    • by GodfatherofSoul (174979) on Monday April 14 2008, @04:55PM (#23070222)
      In either case, your subject would be the idiot. That's just not the way to conduct yourself in the workplace if you want to get any collaborative work done. Insults simply shut relationships down not to mention setting up the subject for passive and active attempts at retribution.
    • by DdJ (10790) on Monday April 14 2008, @05:19PM (#23070568) Homepage Journal
      You don't in fact have to be careful. In both of those situations, the IT guy should be fired.

      Sure, the core of their job may be technical, but just about every job requires a little bit in the way of interpersonal skills. Somebody who goes around calling people idiots and acting bellicose does not meet minimum acceptable standards for human interaction.