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Download And Burn Movies Available Soon

Posted by Zonk on Sun Mar 04, 2007 06:15 AM
from the oh-css-is-there-nothing-you-can't-do dept.
Encryption Security The Internet Movies Media
An anonymous reader writes "According to an article from PC World, a source close to the CSS Managed Recording forum said that technology which allows movies to be downloaded and burned to blank DVDs, using the same content-protection system as commercial discs, received official approval on Thursday. 'The technology will require discs that are slightly different from the conventional DVD-Rs found in shops today. The burned discs will be compatible with the vast majority of consumer DVD players ... Despite Thursday's approval, services that allow consumers to legally download and burn movies in their own homes are unlikely to appear quickly. The DVD CCA said it will be initially restricted to professional uses. These might include kiosks in retail stores where consumers can purchase and burn discs in a controlled environment.'"
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  • Soon? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2007, @06:18AM (#18225366)
    I've been doing it for years.

    • Re:Soon? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by uncleFester (29998) on Sunday March 04 2007, @08:58AM (#18225922) Homepage Journal
      Frankly, I don't get this great desire for direct-delivery, or downloadable, or burn-your-own type of delivery. Why? Well, hell.. you're already getting charged an arm + leg today for the media and its content.. so to make it better you're going to do more of the providor's work for them? You're going to use your bandwidth, burn to your media for the content? What kinda sense is that?

      And further.. to continue the cries downloading is the way to go (especially in the middle of this HD-format battle we're in),instead of a shiny silvery thing (complete with its case, booklet, promo materials) we're going to be satisfied with a download direct to a black box? You think that box is going to have any to get that content out of it? Especially if the RIAA/Hollywood/Insert-Your-Favorite-Boogeyman-here , et al have their way about it?

      I've been watching this trend with music (iTunes, etc..), I see people think it's the cat's balls for video.. and I simply don't get it. Or I'm to materialistic and prefer the tangible product in my hand compared to some stuff on a harddrive somewhere which is (imho) prone to higher levels of control or loss due to failure..

      -r (or maybe it's just another sign i'm getting older.. :)

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by garcia (6573)
        Or I'm to materialistic and prefer the tangible product in my hand compared to some stuff on a harddrive somewhere which is (imho) prone to higher levels of control or loss due to failure..

        People think it's better until 52GB of their music collection vanishes from their system because they forgot to de-authorize their computers, their music player HD crashes, and they don't have any other backup medium.

        People think it's better because EVERYONE else tells them it is. Yay, having an iPod is cool. Ooh, shiny

  • Ohhhhh (Score:5, Funny)

    by strack (1051390) on Sunday March 04 2007, @06:18AM (#18225368)
    Swing and a miss. nonstandard dvds, nice try, please come again.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Kjella (173770)
      Swing and a miss. nonstandard dvds, nice try, please come again.

      Well, if I remember the way CSS works correctly then it's simply a matter of DVDs where sector 0 is writable. That was the way they prevent 1:1 copies.
      Pressed disks, DVD masters: Sector 0 CSS key, Sector 1-whatever data.
      Consumer disks: Sector 0 all zeros, Sector 1-whatever data.

      So it's not as much "non-standard" as it's probably "Will be used to burn a movie and we'll charge you as much as one"...
    • Yet another case of a legitimate use for cracking DRM. If I were to use this service, and the "special" blank DVDs cost a cent more, I'd simply crack the DVDs the way I already do and burn a non-DRM'd version.

      The real obstacle would be if it requires special software -- which I'd imagine it does. But if they let us download anything resembling an ISO or a BIN/CUE, like we're used to, then this could actually be useful.

  • Yawn... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The burned discs will be compatible with the vast majority of consumer DVD players ...

    This is a lie. And if I learned something from history (and e.g. Sony advertising), then that this is a lie...

    The DVD CCA said it will be initially restricted to professional uses. These might include kiosks in retail stores where consumers can purchase and burn discs in a controlled environment.

    That's not professional use. It's a business model that will fail. If I learned something from history, then that this is one of

  • I don't get it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kniazvadim (628809) on Sunday March 04 2007, @06:53AM (#18225472)
    So I am going to walk into Best Buy, walk up to a kiosk, pick the movie I want to watch, wait 5-10 minutes for it to download and burn on this special DVD, pay for it, and walk out? As opposed to me just grabbing the movie off the shelf and skipping the burning-downloading part?
    • There is apparently a large gap between reality and media execs. Nothing really new here.

      Tom

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by little4ce (1071126)
      I think that this will reduce considerably the costs for the distribution of a movie: think shrinkwrapping, copies of the movie that sit on shelves with years, shelve real estate, etc. I believe that they want to decrease their costs, not to improve anything major for the consumer. The only benefit I would see is that when you go to such a facility you can get any movie available from those retailers, no more "DVD not in stock" etc.

      So I am going to walk into Best Buy, walk up to a kiosk, pick the movie I want to watch, wait 5-10 minutes for it to download and burn on this special DVD, pay for it, and walk out? As opposed to me just grabbing the movie off the shelf and skipping the burning-downloading part?

    • Need more imagination. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by vhold (175219) on Sunday March 04 2007, @07:34AM (#18225602)
      Perhaps the advantage is that you'll be able to gain access to a giant catalog of movies as opposed to simply what is in stock? Furthermore, locations could offer this huge selection of movies without even having stock?

      A good example would be a kiosk at a supermarket. You could come in, choose a movie, swipe your credit card, start the burn process, when it's done, it could set it aside until you swipe your credit card again, after you are done shopping. It could use DVD-RW and predict demand for popular movies and keep recycling disks, so that if you pick a popular movie it doesn't even have to burn it. It could do this all through the night and at 10 minutes a disk (conservative estimate) could produce 144 DVDs a day. More likely it'd be closer to double that.

      Even more obvious is that it could be integrated into an online service that would let you choose movies and guarantee their availability when you go to the store. Browse online then simply pick it up when you go for groceries. Convenience and instant gratification.
      • If it's popular it's going to need to be far more than 144 DVDs a day - more like 1000+. Searching Google gives a ballpark figure of 30,000 customers each day for a larger supermarket (taken from Morrisons' data). If this is convenient and has a large enough library to pull from, at a reasonable price, people will make good use of it.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by vhold (175219)
          Well, the nice thing is that it could just have more drives and produce more output at a rather low incremental cost to the machine. If it rents out a 1000 DVDs a day, that'd be pretty extreme. The machine would pay for itself in less then a month?
          • If the DVDs are cheap enough, renting out 1000 a day - at least some days - isn't really that extreme at all; of course the chances of the MPAA allowing prices to drop at all are fairly remote...
      • Perhaps the advantage is that you'll be able to gain access to a giant catalog of movies as opposed to simply what is in stock? Furthermore, locations could offer this huge selection of movies without even having stock?

        A definite advantage to the store to expand the inventory without wasting space. A psychological advantage for stupid media execs who think that "using the same content-protection system as commercial discs" prevents piracy. To the knowledgeable consumer, it's massive waste of money the stu
        • To that I would simply say way more people are watching movies on DVD players then on computers. There are movie download services.

    • wait 5-10 minutes for it to download
      Please, please tell me which bittorrent client and DVD buring software you use to download and burn several Gb in five minutes!
      • None - if it's a kiosk it can have terabyte of storage right there with the most popular movies stored and a high-speed link to the main repository - say 10MB/s (ISPs will happily give massive discounts if you can tell them exactly where you'll be connecting to, so the price will be low).

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Paradise Pete (33184)
      So I am going to walk into Best Buy, walk up to a kiosk, pick the movie I want to watch, wait 5-10 minutes for it to download and burn on this special DVD, pay for it, and walk out? As opposed to me just grabbing the movie off the shelf and skipping the burning-downloading part?

      Obviously if you're looking for some popular movie it will be available "Pre-burned." But with this system you can order anything you like. If you're at a mall you could continue shopping and pick it up at the end. And presumably i

  • CSS?? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DigitAl56K (805623) on Sunday March 04 2007, @06:57AM (#18225486)
    using the same content-protection system as commercial discs

    So why bother? It's been broken for over 7 years. Unless...

    The technology will require discs that are slightly different from the conventional DVD-Rs found in shops today ... ahhh, this will maybe prevent ripping? Or will there be media taxes imposed? Will I need to install special drivers to burn to or read from the discs? Would such drivers, if required, govern my PC playback and 'secure' access to the discs?
    • Slightly different? Well then... by definition, these will probably not even be DVDs at all...

      There're already a large number of DRMd CDs sold in stores which don't fit the definition, as outlined by the standard, of CDs...

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Hal_Porter (817932)
        Pretty ironic isn't it? They went to a great deal of trouble forking the DVD-R from DVD so CSS keys couldn't be written. Now they'll need to go to even more trouble hacking it to put them back in.

        And all to support a protection mechanism which can be broken trivially with DVD Decrypter.

  • Another disc format ? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2007, @07:06AM (#18225510)

    computer store conversation

    customer: hello, my son says i need some blank dvds for my holiday video
    Salesman: certainly sir which would you require ?
    customer: iam not sure
    salesman: well is it DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-HD, DVD-RAM, DVD+RW, DVD-RW, DVD+DL, DVD-DL, DVDRW+DL, DVDRW-DL ?
    customer: erm iam not sure DVDR i was told
    salesman: ok lets say its DVD-R what speed would you like?
    customer: ??
    salesman: 1-4x, 2-8x or 4-16x
    customer: ???
    salesman: and would it be an Organic layer based disc or Gold archival format ?
    customer: forget it i'll just have a box of VHS tapes please

    • Re:Another disc format ? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by speculatrix (678524) on Sunday March 04 2007, @09:57AM (#18226320)
      customer: forget it i'll just have a box of VHS tapes please
      Salesman: would you like Sony, TDK, Memorex or own brand
      Customer: er, Sony
      Salesman: what grade would you like? XB, XBR, XBR-E
      ... ad nauseam ...
      • What shops do you go to where there's actually a Salesman talking to you? I'd be happy if I found in the average shop where you can get those good someone who can rub enough brain cells against each other to form a legible sentence, left alone finding someone who actually knows just what they're selling there.

        Usually I'm standing in front of those miles of different media, pondering, considering and finally choosing the wrong kind.

    • This is why I hate format wars. When the customer goes to the store, he should just have one thing to say: "I need an extra n GigaBytes of storage added to my home server."

      (Ok, this is where you insert the joke about the salesman asking whether he wants USB or Firewire or ethernetted-NAS. *sigh* Damn, you people...)

  • Convenience for who? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by JonnyCalcutta (524825) on Sunday March 04 2007, @07:36AM (#18225604)
    All this saves is retail storage space - ie it is convenient for the studios and the stores because they don't need the same warehouse and shelf space. Its not convenient for me. I can already walk to the Global Video 50 yards from my house and buy (or rent) DVDs. Except now, if its not a popular choice, I have to wait at a booth until a 4GB file downloads.

    It just reinforces in my mind that consumers are merely obstacles between the studios and their money, and technology is merely a lubricant to ease the movement of money from us to them. Nothing else matters - in fact anything else is an obstacle.
  • This will, of course, be available for open source software users in the quarter after hell freezes over.

  • Waste of money. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Purity Of Essence (1007601) on Sunday March 04 2007, @08:36AM (#18225828)
    Pressing real discs is much cheaper than burning DVD recordables. If you are dealing in quantities over just a few hundred, real replication is the faster, more reliable, and more economical solution. This idea makes no sense for the consumer or the business owner and there is nothing convenient about it. The only possible good that can come out of it is the increased availability of obscure DVD titles that there is currently no retail shelf space for. But it's never going to happen because this business model doesn't make sense for any business that is interested in volume: a requirement in the retail media channel. Too much overhead in terms of time, equipment, and pissed off customers stuck with useless or failing DVD recordable discs. The concept will fail before obscure titles ever are considered for this kind of duplication.
  • ...it is already now possible to easily rip and copy DVDs, so why even bother to protect the images. Sell the downloadable images for half the price and let people burn them! What do you gain by "protecting" them?!

  • Anyone think... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Darundal (891860) on Sunday March 04 2007, @09:38AM (#18226182) Journal
    ...that perhaps this isn't supposed to succeed? Think about it; the studios want this to happen. First, they say "downloadable and burnable movies for the masses!" Second, they come up with a business model designed to fail and a process designed to be less convenient for the consumer. Third, sales end up in the gutter. Fourth, they discontinue offering movies in this manner. Fifth, anytime someone starts talking about how movies should we should be able to download movies and burn them to discs, the studios point at this and say that the model is unfeasable. Sixth, they are able to label almost anyone who has a movie on a disc that wasn't burned by them as a pirate.

  • they have not let go of their strangle hold yet (Score:3, Insightful)

    by v1 (525388) on Sunday March 04 2007, @10:13AM (#18226436) Homepage Journal
    The technology will require discs that are slightly different from the conventional DVD-Rs found in shops today

    You can bet those disks, which cost them a nickel to make, will cost you $7 apiece. They are not going to stop robbing us, they are just trying to make it less obvious.
  • What's the difference between a consumer DVD player and, e.g., an enterprise DVD player? Or a "prosumer" DVD player? Are they able to ignore regional settings and have a CSS licence or something?

    There are so many unwarranted uses of the word "consumer" in TFS and TFA it isn't funny.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Hal_Porter (817932)
      I don't think they're as smart as that. And most of the people involved will see it as an interesting technical project to make drives and disks with writeable CSS (if they are engineers), or a chance to sell some of their drives/disks at a massive markup compared to normal DVD ons (if they are sales guys). And the people at the top will go through the motions of testing a new distribution method.

      The requirement that people burn in stores rather than at home is inevitable once they decided to use non standa
    • Well, I know in the beginning there were special burners that could write to sector 0, and special disks where sector 0 is writable, for the CSS key. I used to believe at least that it was a double lock-in, that consumer burners couldn't write to sector 0 and consumer disks had sector 0 all zeross so you couldn't make a 1:1 copy of commercial disks. Not that it matters anymore though.
      • Well, I don't know if any burners exist that can write to sector 0, but I do know that a DVD press can certainly do so, and since you'd have to be insane to burn all the copies of a DVD you're publishing, companies and people both use DVD presses to make mass copies. Since the only people who would also use CSS are the larger companies who don't feel the CSS and macrovision licencing fees are a waste of money (despite the fact that they are), they're also the same people using DVD presses.
        • Those kinds of burners existed in the early days of DVD recording, designed for authoring, but they fell out of favor pretty quickly. And I can tell you that there are a lot of DVDs being pressed without CSS and Macrovision. In fact I'd wager there are several times as many unencrypted DVD productions getting pressed than Hollywood titles in any given year (more productions albeit not more in shear volume of discs). Getting DVDs pressed is dirt cheap at just over a dollar a disc with art, case, insert, and

  • Why own? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by pacalis (970205) on Sunday March 04 2007, @12:06PM (#18227314)
    Most dvd's aren't watched more than once, and with increasing streaming services, why would I want to pay full price for these?


    Still, for those rare dvd's one does want to own, why would you want a shit burned DVD with some crap injet label instead of a slick case with insert?

  • When will the MPAA realise their existing monopoly-based sales model doesn't work any more?
    They should do something innovative instead of trying to release pointless and unwanted variants of the old sales model.

    I say this is pointless because anyone with a dvd burner and a subscription to netflix or blockbuster can already do more than this 'new concept' is offering. Furthermore they can still use standard media, and it probably costs a lot less per copy.
  • I saw this a few years ago ('02-'03) at a Sheetz store in Williamsport, PA. It wasn't there for long. You could go to the thing, pick a movie, and get the DVD a few hours later, I believe is how it worked.

    Sorry bucko, Blockbuster is faster. (They made you return the video).

    • Re:huh? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mumblestheclown (569987) on Sunday March 04 2007, @06:32AM (#18225406)
      Umm, because now they can offer a much larger catalogue and you have even less excuse than ever for pirating something that you claim is rare / not available locally?

      • Umm, because now they can offer a much larger catalogue and you have even less excuse than ever for pirating something that you claim is rare / not available locally?


        I've never used the excuse that I download a movie via bittorrent because it's "rare/not available locally". I do it because I hate DRM, Copy Protection, and the way the Military/Intellectual Property/Industrial Complex has hurt the very art forms I love most.

    • Re:Legal in own home? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Goaway (82658) on Sunday March 04 2007, @09:50AM (#18226262) Homepage
      I SAY WHAT IS LEGAL IN MY OWN HOME.

      The preferred argument of wife-beaters everywhere!

      • Re:Legal in own home? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by lhbtubajon (469284) on Sunday March 04 2007, @11:04AM (#18226830)
        Mods, this is NOT a troll. It is a really good point.

        At what point does the "legal in my own home" argument fail to hold water? And if it fails to work at some point, what does that say about the entire argument?

        For example, is it legal to shoot heroin in your house? How about meth? Is it legal to pass counterfeit bills to your drug dealer? Can you deprive him of liberty if he calls you on it? Is murder legal in your own home? How about arson to hide the evidence of the previous "legal" activities?

        If your argument fails at some point in that chain, does it continue to work for your original "legal in my own home" actions?
        • > For example, is it legal to shoot heroin in your house? How about meth?

          It sure as hell should be.

          How about "victimless" or "consensual" crimes should be legal in your own home? In fact, how about we just get rid of consensual crimes altogether? [mcwilliams.com]
          • I agree - I'm not hurting anybody with these pipe bombs I build and sell in home. Everybody involved in the transaction consents to me making and selling them!

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