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Most Users Think They Have AntiVirus Protection, While Only Half Do

Posted by Zonk on Sun Oct 07, 2007 01:34 PM
from the watch-yourself-in-this-neck-of-the-woods dept.
Security Worms IT
SkiifGeek writes "A survey carried out by McAfee and the NCSA found that while more than 90% of users believed that they were protected by antivirus or antimalware products that were updated at least once a week, only 51% actually were. 'Even with significantly growing awareness by everyday users of the need for efficient and effective antivirus / antimalware software, and the increasing market penetration achieved by the security industry, the nature of rapidly evolving Information Security threats means that the baseline of protection is outstripping the ability of users to keep up (without some form of extra help).' The study is available online in PDF format. What sort of an effect does this sort of thinking, and practice, have on the overall security of your systems, networks, and efforts to educate?"
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[+] Technology: The Law And Nanotechnology 188 comments
YIAAL writes: "An article in Smalltimes raises the issue of legal implications of nanotechnology in all sorts of areas. Would nanoweapons be treated as chemical or biological weapons, or do they need a new treaty? If you can use nanotechnology to copy anything and then share the "plans" with friends who can use nanotechnology to make copies of their own, is it like Napster for the material world?" The gray goo problem - accidentally releasing a self-replicating device that turns the entire world into copies of itself - is going to be a huge spur for close regulation of nano-devices.
Re:This Has Massive Consequences For IP/Copyright. by Lonath (249354)
Submission: 92% of Users Think They're Protected -Only 51% Are by SkiifGeek (702936)
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Most Users Think They Have AntiVirus Protection, While Only Half Do 50 Comments More /

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  • How is this new? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by quanticle (843097) on Sunday October 07 2007, @01:36PM (#20889591) Homepage

    New computer users forget to update antivirus. In other news water is wet, and fire is hot. Film at 11...

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No, the problem is that you get a free year trial when you buy a new computer. People get annoyed when it starts asking you to update all the time, and turn off the "remember to register" reminders. Then the year passes, and they have a very out of date antivirus running that does no good, but they think they are protected because it still churns away acting like it's doing something.

    • Re:How is this new? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Billy the Impaler (886238) on Sunday October 07 2007, @02:23PM (#20890011) Homepage
      The real issue is that people buy computers with software pre-loaded. Among this is an antivirus or a trial for the same. After a while this quits working but the system tray icon still sits there whining about things occasionally. Users click through whatever the annoyance is and continue on their merry ways, thinking that that "picture by the clock" is doing something to protect them. Education is the solution; users can learn about free alternatives to paid antivirus software, why Windows needs an antivirus program, and about what they need to be wary.
  • Every anti-virus program I've used in years defaults to auto-updating with zero configuration. How can that many people screw that up?
    • Most commercial programs only come with a subscription for one or two years. After the time is up, people might forget to resubscribe or figure that it's not worth the cost.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by jawtheshark (198669) *

        Think again! Most budget computers come with a 30 day trail. Don't pay that one, and you're screwed... If you pay, you are screwed too because those Antivirus programs (Symantec, I'm looking at you) are crappy overpriced products.

        Your only hope is knowing a Geek/Nerd that is willing too help. Contrary to popular belief on slashdot, not everybody has that luxury.

    • Re:How can that be? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jugalator (259273) on Sunday October 07 2007, @01:43PM (#20889683) Journal
      I, like another commenter, think it's because of OEM's so often shipping AV trials that expire and they misunderstanding and think "having antivirus included" meant having it all along. Users would probably be less confused if OEM's didn't include any antivirus at all, or offered a lifetime subscription for some extra cost.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by bombastinator (812664)
        My favorite bit is having seen an out of date copy of norton on xp causes so much virus like behavior and slowdowns that it fooled a person into thinking it was a virus issue when the offender was in fact norton itself.

        I have one friend who bought it merely because it was the only way he knew to make his computer work again. Norton is so much more complicated to uninstall than other software that he couldn't figure it out.

        YAY Shovelware! :/
        • +1

          My uncle's computer was having all sorts of problems with slowness and other performance issues. I uninstalled Norton and installed AVG. It was running fine after that.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I, like another commenter, think it's because of OEM's so often shipping AV trials that expire and they misunderstanding and think "having antivirus included" meant having it all along. Users would probably be less confused if OEM's didn't include any antivirus at all, or offered a lifetime subscription for some extra cost.

        One of my son's fellow co-workers wanted him to look at their computer to see why it wasn't connecting to the internet via the browser. When he got to checking he found a problem he has s

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by arminw (717974)
          .....The Uninstalls shipped with the software should work,.....

          On Mac OSX, most programs don't come with an uninstaller, since that is unnecessary. Just drag the program to the trash ... empty trash ... there, it's uninstalled. Why can't Windows have it that easy? Also, other than a few experimental proofs of concept there STILL isn't a virus in the wild, that infects Macs. Now let the market share replies begin.

            • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

              by arminw (717974)
              ......It is perhaps worth pointing out that no antivirus could every be uninstalled without an uninstaller......

              For Mac users, uninstallers do exist for the very few programs that do install stuff in the OS. An antivirus program would likely be in that category. These are merely a convenience, because unlike Windows, unless you're talking root-kit, malware doesn't have as many places to hide. Malware doesn't do much good if it can't be made to start running automatically either at boot time or when a user l

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by jawtheshark (198669) *

        On the other hand, the virus update doesn't seem to work unless the administrator is logged on.

        The you have a crappy antivirus program. Even AVG Free does this in Limited User. I used Limited User everywhere on my computers, I rarely log in as Admin. Of course, I do have the knowledge to set up a machine that way. Something most -normal- people cannot...

        • I have attempted to run as a limited user on my home PC, but almost every program I use (mainly PC games) requires admin rights for some stupid reason; if people would make there programs use user spaces instead of system spaces then this would be much more feasible for more people.

      • Re:How can that be? Easy (Score:5, Funny)

        by Dunbal (464142) on Sunday October 07 2007, @02:28PM (#20890051)
        My wife's computer at work has a secretary account and an administrator account.

              So tell, me what will happen the day you catch the secretary account in bed with the administrator account??? This sounds better than a soap opera!
  • I've been travelling around the world for the last six months, usually staying with people from hospitality associations. I've connected my iPod to a lot of computers to update Rockbox, and I'm amazed at how often autorun files from some virus or another are left on the iPod. Sure enough, these people have rarely installed antivirus, and don't even realize the need to run Windows Update. Indeed, most couldn't even get much from running Windows Update, since in much of the world legitimate Windows installations are difficult to achieve.
  • I downloaded this antivirus from this webpage that told me "YOUR COMPUTER IS INFECTED! DOWNLOAD FREE ANTIVIRUS!".
    Why do I keep getting popups? :(

  • It's the AntiVirus companies fault (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mattwolf7 (633112) on Sunday October 07 2007, @01:40PM (#20889633)
    It's the antivirus/computer companies fault, since they switched to giving people with new computers only 30-60 days of protection when they would give you a full year or even software that never expired... People think they still get full service when they buy a computer that they did 2-3 years ago.
    • I think it's the ISP's fault, or more exactly their problem. The only way you will get Joe Sixpack to install and update an AntiVirus program is if it's free and automatic. Now most everyone accesses the internet via an ISP so they have the distribution network and the trust of the computer owners. The ISPs also have to deal with the extra bandwidth used by infected computers. The ISPs need to stop making virus protection an opt-in, download this plug-in, thing. Start making virus protection an automatic, o

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by ScrewMaster (602015)
        If you want to assign blame, I'd say it's a certain operating system vendor's fault. Granted, no operating system is immune to malware, but at least if the bar were raised a bit higher we might not see so much of it.

      • Re:PARENT IS DEAD ON!!! (Score:4, Informative)

        by gardyloo (512791) on Sunday October 07 2007, @03:12PM (#20890363)

        Unfortunately, none of the free ones are more then marginally useful in unattended installations; you have to click on stuff to get the new version, which my grandmother won't do. It's just as stupid as the pandemic itself.
        Not sure if you mean that you have to click on stuff to get the entirely new antivirus engine, or just the definitions. If it's the latter, Avast! is a free one which updates automatically, at least once a day. No clicky, no worries. You can even remove the notifications that it's been updated, if grandma can't handle those.

  • PEBKAC (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kjella (173770) on Sunday October 07 2007, @01:40PM (#20889639) Homepage
    I run Windows. If I don't have anti-virus or the definitions are out of date (last time this summer when I was away for a few weeks) it'll nag. Same if I disable my firewall just to see if the reason an application isn't working is because I've blocked something I shouldn't have. It really doesn't get any easier than that, if they're not running updates they must have disabled everything themselves, and there's really nothing you can do with users that insist on shooting themselves in the foot because the safety is annoying.
    • Not all users are running antivirus that nags. In the city I reside in in Romania, most young people are running a cracked version of a fairly old antivirus program. Updates are still available, but the software does not automatically update. When I visit the homes of friends, I have to show them that it is their responsibility to click Update.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by LordSnooty (853791)
      Just watch a novice use a computer. They don't need to be a 'novice' as such, just someone who doesn't understand how they work. They become desensitised to the popups. They'll gladly click through them without paying any attention to what they say. They accept it as part of the everyday running of the computer, what you have to do to get into your email. This is why when helpdesk operators ask what the problem is, many reply "there was an error". When you ask what the error said, they say "I don't know I j
  • people thinking that a anti-virus program that requires people to update manually, updates automatically, and they therefore don't have to do anything.

  • To be fair... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Etch-A-Sketch doesn't actually need anti-virus.

    • Re:To be fair... (Score:4, Funny)

      by Dunbal (464142) on Sunday October 07 2007, @02:25PM (#20890025)
      Etch-A-Sketch doesn't actually need anti-virus.

      If your Etch-A-Sketch is shared between 2 or more kids, you can bet that viruses will be shared among them. There's nothing more infested than a toddler.

  • I used to run a small computer repair business. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Silverlancer (786390) on Sunday October 07 2007, @01:48PM (#20889719)
    In the very early 2000s, when I started my business, most of my "problems" involved dealing with Windows 98 crapping out or computers just grinding to a halt from overbloatedness and installation of a few too many Bonzi Buddies. Often I was asked to help install antivirus software. But they almost never had viruses.

    A few years later, almost all the computers I worked on had antivirus and/or antispyware software... yet almost every single one had some sort of virus, usually a botnet-style worm, or at least loads of spyware. In my opinion this is proof that viruses are something one can only avoid through overall system security and, most importantly, knowledge about computers--no antivirus will protect you if you cannot protect yourself.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Nimey (114278)
      Viruses != worms != trojans. In my experience you need not only an antivirus program (I prefer AVG Free) but also a selection of anti-spyware programs, since trojans often conceal spyware, and anti-virus programs aren't focused on spyware.

      I use Spybot S&D (immunize and don't install teatimer, it's annoying (unless you've got an infection, then use it to help contain it and remove it after you're done) and sometimes Windows Defender on those machines which need periodic scanning w/o user intervention.

  • ISP incomplete advertising partially to blame (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 07 2007, @01:50PM (#20889729)
    While doing tech support for some family and friends I have come across this. I would ask them what AV program they were using, and they would state, "Whatever my ISP is giving me" I ask for more info and they tell me that their ISP told them they get free antivirus with their service. I asked what program they installed, and they would respond with a blank stare.

    From what I have gathered, half believe the ISP installed and updates their AV in the same way Microsoft works. They believed that the ISP installed AV when they set up service and that the AV program gets updated the same way MS updates their system. The other half believe the ISP runs antivirus for them on the line so they do not need anything installed.

    When I inform them that they need their own, they ask how much. I inform them of AVG and ClamAv* and that those two are at no cost. They then state they cannot be any good if they are free and they go buy either Norton or McAfee.

    *I am now Linux only, so I am not familiar with current Windows AV programs. I have Clam on a few systems and AVG on a few others.

    • Re:ISP incomplete advertising partially to blame (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Telvin_3d (855514) on Sunday October 07 2007, @03:10PM (#20890347)
      Here is what I tell people about AVG to get them over the 'free' thing. Just say that AVG's real business is anti-virus for big business. They give their stuff away free to normal people because it helps lower the total number of viruses on the internet. That makes their real job easier.

      People are happy with anything they can attribute SOME sort of selfish motive to.

  • Does anyone need anti-virus software? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ceswiedler (165311) * <chris@swiedler.org> on Sunday October 07 2007, @01:51PM (#20889737)
    I'm no anti-virus expert--but does anyone need anti-virus software anymore? Gone are the days when viruses are spread by floppy. (Mostly) gone are the days when email clients were so brain-dead that they would automatically execute attachments. But most importantly, gone are the days when the main type of infection is viruses (which spread via some sort of user action). These days, worms (which require no user action) are the dominant threat. And anti-virus software, which relies on signatures, is nearly useless against worms which (by their automatic nature) spread far too quickly for even automatic signature updates to catch. Furthermore, worms generally cause most of their havoc just by spreading (and clogging the network), and by infecting PCs to use as bot-farms.

    Perhaps I'm just isolated from the sort of users who are so stupid as to get viruses on their PCs...but are there any left? And does anti-virus software help these people?
    • Set up a fake video site like youtube and have a gif show up instead of a actual video player. Tell the user they must install the plugin (some exe file) to watch the video. Anyone with limited html skill should be able to pull that off.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Dunbal (464142)
      Perhaps I'm just isolated from the sort of users who are so stupid as to get viruses on their PCs...but are there any left?

      Teenagers. My 14 year old infected her computer the other day when she received a copy of a IM worm that disguised itself as a .zip file and said "here are my new pics". Since the message was from one of her friends, obviously she opened it. Now she has learned to be careful, but there's always someone around the house who will screw up.

  • I never run any anti-virus... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Lost Penguin (636359) on Sunday October 07 2007, @01:52PM (#20889747) Homepage
    I can't get that stuff to run under WINE.
  • What impact does this have on systems and networks we run?

    None.

    If it's desktop systems we run, I assume those systems are locked down, antivirus and firewall running, and the users don't have admin rights.

    If it's networks or servers, those systems are locked down every way possible to protect them from the compromised systems.

    What impact does it have on my interactions with families and friend looking for free tech support?

    Now there, there may be an impact.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Ritchie70 (860516)
        Nobody really asks me except my mom, and she insists on "paying" me. I took her computer away from her for a couple of weeks, uninstalled everything Norton, installed all the Windows updates, Avast! and a couple other free things, and gave it back to her in a usable state. Took probably 6 hours over those two weeks.

        (The biggest impact was scraping Norton off. Did you know Symantec actually has a tool on their web site to remove all modern Norton products from your system?)

        For this, $100 gift card showed up
  • Solution #1: Linux.
    Solution #2: Mac OS X.
    Solution #3: No computer for you! Come back, one year!
  • Most PCs come with 'free' AV programs, typically limited to 30-60 days or whatnot, so most of us student types are left with a large investment or no protection.

    I am using a cracked version of McAfee Security Center, mainly because my ancient copy of Symantec Antivirus stopped being able to update its definitions.

    I STILL can't update my definitions with the cracked version, right now I'm looking into an FOSS antivirus.

    Could someone please recommend an option for the unprotected?

  • Almost every morning after I switch on my computer at work it's unusable for about half an hour because it has to check for viruses. Why does it have to be like that? Why can't that #&%#&@ program just be niced so I can do my work?
    • Almost every morning after I switch on my computer at work it's unusable for about half an hour because it has to check for viruses. Why does it have to be like that?

            Because either you have a crappy anti-virus program (I'm looking at you, Norton) that needlessly hogs system resources, or perhaps it's time to upgrade your computer...

  • Whats the point? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by adamchou (993073) on Sunday October 07 2007, @02:06PM (#20889871)
    I used to believe in virus protection but with the advent of all these rootkits that are undetectable by virus scanners, whats the point of having a virus scanner installed? If someone really wants to get into your computer, they can. If I don't click on everything I get emailed and I keep my windows installation up to date with updates from microsoft, I don't see what added value a virus scanner offers besides slowing down my computer.

  • I recently had to fix my parents' machine, because it got massively infected. This turned out to be a blessing in disguise, because I ended up flattening it and reinstalling XP from Microsoft's disks rather than the crappy OEM version that was preinstalled on it, but that's another story.

    My father had a subscription to Norton. So, why didn't Norton protect him against the virus? Well, a quick install and run of AVG later, I figured out why: Norton had been lobotomised by the virus. Half of its files were corrupted beyond repair. Most of the Javascript that its crappy UI was written in had been replaced by binaries. It was like one of those caterpillars whose brain gets eaten by wasp larvae, and the caterpillar never notices. It was horrific.

    Unfortunately I still can't persuade him that AVG (which is free, which gets good reviews, which actually seems to work, and which doesn't keep popping up crap in your face) might be a better choice on the new system; but hopefully the new improved installation will protect him. We'll see.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by tsjaikdus (940791)
      Same for me. Until I was given a free copy of Kaspersky from my provider. It's like looking at your own intestines after having spent a 6 year period in the rainforests of Borneo.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I hate keeping up on it, but I dont use Anti Virus and I do just fine, I not a stupid porn-looking, spyware infested computer user, I know what to look for and what to stay away from.

      Stop listing porn as a reason for viruses and spyware. You can get infected with either from almost anywhere.

      I went 18 months without AV software on my Windows 2000 machine a few years back. I did not get infected with any viruses or malware. I was still using that system until March of this year when I moved to Debian Etch.

    • Re:Do you even need antivirus? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Dunbal (464142) on Sunday October 07 2007, @02:19PM (#20889973)
      But I've never gotten a virus, not once.

            Sorry but how do you know, if you haven't used anti-virus software in years? Do you expect a little flag to come up saying "help help I'm infected, get an anti-virus program!"? You could be infected and not even know it.
    • A study carried out by McAfee and North Carolina School of the Arts says users need to buy more virus scanners. I'd have been amazed if a McAfee study had reached another conclusion.

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