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Trouble With MS Genuine Office Validation
Posted by
kdawson
on Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:04 AM
from the no-add-ons-for-you dept.
from the no-add-ons-for-you dept.
Julie188 writes "Here's another little gotcha with Microsoft license validation, discovered by security and PowerShell expert Tyson Kopczynski. The Microsoft Office 2007 add-on site refuses to download legitimate add-ons for Office 2007 when a legitimate — but not yet activated — additional Microsoft product is installed on the computer. In Kopczynski's case, the product was Visio. He writes: 'Let's back this license train up and look at why this picture is wrong: 1. I have a valid copy of Office 2007. 2. The Visio installation only failed the validation because I haven't activated it. 3. Microsoft has presented me with a page to buy Office, which I have a valid copy of... Dear Microsoft, When used incorrectly and in direct conflict of something that you are promoting, DRM sucks! By making the usage of your software a hassle, you risk further pushing more users of your applications to other solutions."
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What's the issue exactly? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What's the issue exactly? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:What's the issue exactly? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:What's the issue exactly? (Score:5, Insightful)
Office validation should be concerned about office & not anything else. It shouldn't
be SPYING on anything else. That sort of stupidity leads directly to these sorts of
unintended consequences.
I should not need to "activate" one program to get support for another.
Parent
Re:What's the issue exactly? (Score:4, Informative)
I actually agree with you, but note that Visio is actually considered part of the MS Office Suite. It comes default as part of one of the more expensive "editions", but most people buy it as an add-on to a cheaper package. So, I can see why the validation routine might gack when one component of office is not activated, but that definitely doesn't make it right. And it definitely shouldn't take him to an offer to buy Office.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Does anyone actually believe this is anything really intentional? I know it's Microsoft we're talking about, but it seriously just sounds like a bug in their activation/authentication system (Microsoft products have bugs sometimes, right?). If it was actually working as intended, it'd at least prompt him to purchase Visio instead of Office. This guy can't be the only guy who's tried to do this. File a bug report and try back tomorrow.
That's the problem, really. MS added some useless activation code that does nothing to stop pirates, but gets in the way of legitimate users. And, on top of that, it gets in the way of legitimate users in ways that MS didn't even intend. Its broken from the ground up.
When you pay several hundred dollars for a piece of software, you have a right to expect it to actually work. For that matter, when you buy any piece of software, you have a right to expect to be able to pop the disk in your computer and u
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No, they found a bug in some software that isn't needed to perform any legitimate function of the product, but was added-on by Microsoft to spy on their customers. That's the worst kind of bug, because if they hadn't been so paranoid it needn't have happened
I'll say it again: this entire class of bugs is nonexistant in Free Software, mainly because the person writing the software isn't trying to deliberately break your computer.
Bugs
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is visio's non-activation trying to get the user to buy a second copy of Office? How is the average user supposed to figure out that when they try to update office and Microsoft tells them they can't update office until they buy office, that the problem is actually somewhere else?
Re: (Score:2)
According to his screenshot, Visio is a component of Office (I don't use Windows, so I had no clue). If a component isn't properly activated, I can understand refusing to allow add-ons to be download.
Prompting him to BUY Office is obviously incorrect. He should be prompted to activate the non-activated components.
Re:What's the issue exactly? (Score:5, Informative)
This exact same thing happened to me just yesterday. My laptop came with a full trial copy of Office. I purchased a copy of Office Standard (only a few of the apps) and tried to use my key to validate my pre-installed copy (thinking it would only validate the apps I had purchased). But it didn't work so I installed my Office Standard and validated it with my key.
Then I tried to get the export-to-PDF add-in from the Microsoft site but it proclaimed that only one copy of Office on my computer was validated so I couldn't update the other. Net result -- un-install one; un-install the other; re-install Office Standard; back in business.
What a stupid pain.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What a stupid pain.
You need to realise that Microsoft is trained in the school of 'being so smart that its stupid'. Basically they have some good developers with great ideas, but they fail to think them through and ends up making somethin
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Hey, just FYI: OpenOffice on Linux (and maybe Windows - I don't know) can easily export to PDF. So if you really need that functionality right now, you can use OpenOffice to convert your document from Word to PDF.
Re:What's the issue exactly? (Score:5, Funny)
First 3,000 customers get a free tote bag. (void where prohibited by law) Operators are standing by. Call now!
Damn! Do you write infomercials for the Thigh-Master or something?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't you see something inherently wrong with that? Not to be snide, but why would you continue to put up with such problems?
Wrong mantra. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's too long. DRM sucks period.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wrong mantra. (Score:4, Insightful)
The ignorance is on the side of the perpetrators of DRM because it generally only annoys legitimate users. People that are going to get something "free" will be getting cracked versions that don't have DRM, in short, the people that DRM affects are generally the customers, and the effect is usually one of annoyance.
I don't pretend to have a solution, but poorly implemented DRM only serves to make the point. A person that stays legal shouldn't have to lose a day's productivty because the WGA server is down or the internet service is down so software can't be validated.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Call it property or don't, but understand that the fundamental nature of digital information is that it can be duplicated at negligible cost. Most people aren't familiar with property that behaves like that, so they are (reasonably) unwilling to call digital information property.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
In this situation you would be the one implementing the DRM on your own house, so if your own protection locked you out every other day, that'd be your own fault. A proper analogy would be if the faulty DRM on your house kept people out of your house that you were trying to let in.
I don't think that DRM is that bad of a thing, with the massive caveat that must be properly implemented. Publicly traded corporations owe it to their investors to try and protect their assets.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
"When used incorrectly and in direct conflict of something that you are promoting, DRM sucks!"
That's too long. DRM sucks period.
Very true, however:
By making the usage of your software a hassle, you risk further pushing more users of your applications to other solutions."
I think Microsoft should actually be encouraged to add more DRM to their products. If people can't get Windows and Office for "free" all the time as they do now people actually have to pay those high prices for it. Or go with the better alternatives that exist. Why use Ubuntu with Windows is "free" [articles.tlug.jp]. Why use OpenOffice with MS Office is "free"?
I'm Shocked. (Score:2)
Only at Slashdot would this be considered a problem. Obviously, Microsoft does not consider unactivated software "legit" for the purposes of downloading add-ons. To me, this makes sense w
Re:I'm Shocked. (Score:5, Insightful)
He has an activated copy of Office 2007.
He has an unactivated copy of Visio. He doesn't say why, maybe he is evaluating it.
Because he has an unactivated copy of Visio, he is unable to upgrade his activated copy of Office 2007.
I would say he has a problem. His unactivated copy of Visio shouldn't screw up the functionality of his activated software, but it is.
Parent
Re:I'm Shocked. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you look at MS's site, you'll find that Visio is considered an Office product. So, to clarify, he activated Office, installed (but did not activate) a new part of Office, and now it won't let him install Office add-ons. This is entirely an Office issue. You may not like what they're doing, but this has no bearing on whether it will have problems with an unactivated non-Office product. If it did, I would be mightily pissed.
I wouldn't give a shit what they call it, the end result is that they've locked him out of support for a product he purchased because he has something else on his machine. That's BS. Whether they consider Visio part of office is immaterial - clearly they can be purchased separately, so they can be supported separately.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What about temporary installations? MSDN users are advised NOT to activate if they plan to reinstall the system within a couple of months. How does one download the latest updates to set up a proper test environment on a non-activated system?
Microsoft is abusing their monopoly position and actually INCREASING value of "pirated" copies of their software.
Re: (Score:2)
RTFA. He said it was Visio that was not net activated, but that prevented him from downloading
DRM (Score:2, Insightful)
Dear Microsoft, When used incorrectly and in direct conflict of something that you are promoting, DRM sucks! By making the usage of your software a hassle, you risk further pushing more users of your applications to other solutions.
I would say that DRM sucks always. But this is beyond DRM, this is the blue monster [microsoft-watch.com] taking over your computer. I am always amazed at how MS knows what's best for you.
Yeah that doesn't seem right (Score:5, Insightful)
So, yeah, this isn't really Microsoft bashing. Though it maybe should be worded a bit more clearly so the problem is made apparent.
Lucky number 13 (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.thelinuxpimp.com/main/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=743 [thelinuxpimp.com]
Ah yes.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Ah yes.... (Score:4, Informative)
The endless search for drivers for USB thumb drives, etc.
My Thinkpad T21 came with Windows 2000. I recently upgraded to Ubuntu Dapper Drake. I have yet needed a driver. My Cannon flatbed scanner works, all my printers work. No driver downloads were needed. Right now I'm sitting in the waiting area of a tire shop using their wireless. Even my D-Link wireless card works.
Parent
Simple answer. (Score:4, Insightful)
2. Stop using software that pulls this crap.
Yes office compatibility is extremely useful but that usefulness is what gives Microsoft the power to pull crap like this.
Just doing number one will probably solve the problem. Chew up the support lines and they will eventually fix the problem for you.
What the hell is wrong with everybody? (Score:3, Interesting)
Linux was good at the time, but NetBSD, FreeBSD, and QNX were all great. NetBSD was smaller, but since we were going to use x86 design, we focused on FreeBSD and Linux. FreeBSD was better, but Linux had more active development and seemed like a better bet.
Because of that experience, I dropped Windows at home. In my house, we run Linux or OS/X on our computers.
Since that day, I become more and more bewildered that people continue to put up with that crap. Seriously, who needs it. Of late, OpenOffice.org does what you need.
Shrug. (Score:3, Insightful)
I occasionally have to use Access and MSSQL Server. I occasionally have to use Visual Studio. It's not even always about corporate; if someone has a screwed up database, or a
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe I'm a zealot, its hard to tell because everyone is crazy these days, but I remember a time when people boycotted products from manufacturers with which they had a problem. I remember a time when people got OUTRAGED when treated badly. We impeached presidents for spying. We broke up monopolies when they were
Typical Microsoft behavior (Score:3, Insightful)
I wish... (Score:2)
Twit alert (Score:2)
The author admits that the only obstacle he faces is running the validation wizard for Visio, after which he can happily download and install the add-in. What would that take? two minutes?
Sheesh....
Slownewsday? FUD? Big deal, activate it already... (Score:2)
Wrong picture (Score:5, Funny)
Yep.
Technically -- Visio is an Office "component" (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not defending activation here, far from it-
But Visio probably updates through the Office 2007 manager rather than stand alone and that's the reason Office 2007 won't update in general.
Which leads to some proper questions:
If Visio requires separate activation than shouldn't it require a separate update path?
If not, then shouldn't the updater be smart enough to update only the activated components?
And overall, what does this say about the concept of SEPARATE products requiring SEPARATE activation but morphing into a SINGULAR app. Does this not, in fact, affect my future upgradeability? (Oh sorry, you integrated Visio in 2007, for Office 2010 your only upgrade path is Office 2010 Ultimate)
Time for a car analogy (Score:3, Interesting)
Or maybe it is like not being able to use Vonage VoIP if you have not yet activated your VoIP account with your ISP ???
The original poster is right, this is stupid. There is no excuse for this, and amounts to MS trying to ensure that you use their products and nobody else's products by mopolistic use of your desktop. Personally I feel that if this is found to be widespread issue, it should result in further DOJ investigations.
Sure, you can say that since the OS and office suite are from MS, it is their right to be a little ignorant of customer needs, but I won't. MS has far too many resources to do something stupid like this by accident, so there is more than just programming oversight at work. Whether you think that failed logic or not, it is true.
The argument that "it's no big deal, just activate visio and move on" is a failed logic. If MS had their way, you'd have to activate the Windows OS before your computer would operate, even in stand alone mode with some other OS installed. Monopolies need to be pushed back against at each given instance, no matter how small. The adage, give them an inch and they will take a mile applies here.
Only when MS is seen to be operating in a manner that is both consistent and fair to its competitors will it be okay to cut them some slack.
Doing my part... (Score:3, Interesting)
If I have to guess how to open it (wtf is a
Misuse of acronym "DRM" (Score:3, Insightful)
We'll ignore the argument that piracy makes the software cost more. Buying someone else's copy protection software is what brings the real cost of the software up. The companies will sell it for what they can sell it for. That's price, and with a complete lack of supply and demand balances, is always grossly overpriced.
But back to the DRM term misuse. This is similar to a story I heard the other day. A co-worker was telling me that her "identity was stolen" because she called a loan company and they couldn't find any record of having a loan with them. A computer glitch at a random company is not "identity theft" and confusing the two makes it seem like a non-issue. She called back a few days later and they found her record. I guess that means her identity was "recovered" and returned to her as property should be.
"My email was hacked!!!"
"Wow, what happened?"
"I sent a private email to a friend and he forwarded it to everyone he know."
This is strange (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
That's only because you pirated it.
Microsoft responds (Score:5, Funny)
Love, Microsoft
PS We had asparagus for lunch. We're not apologizing, just letting you know the taste is about to get worse.
While we're bitching about activation... (Score:3, Interesting)
There's a balance that needs to be struck. Unfortunately, I think copy protection and identification is necessary for many companies that make money on closed source software. I've often seen that people who can afford software won't pay for it if they don't have to. I'd just like for the process to get easier. Having to take time out to install a licensing server on a network is BS. Having to call tech support and sit on the phone for hours getting a copy protection issue straight on software I've paid for is BS as well.
To all those who say "what's the problem..." (Score:4, Insightful)
If a doctor find blood in your stool, you shouldn't say "what's the problem? It's a trivial amount of blood."
The loss of blood is not serious. What is serious is what the loss of blood shows: that something is wrong inside you.
Kopczynski found a bug in the activation system. This particular bug didn't affect him in a serious way this particular time. That doesn't mean it isn't a serious bug.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And OO.o doesn't really have an equivalent to Visio, either. OO.o Draw is a nice app, but it doesn't do the same job as Visio. The original article's "useopenoffice" tag isn't really a solution.
Come to that, even with compatible functionality, rivals are still up against MS Office's installed user base. As long as my customers require me to use MS Office templates that don't work in OO.o (not least because they use macros), MS Office is staying on my computer. I've yet to have a customer ask me to work to